Concordia News: Please Post Here

[sidari]

Of course being CNN the programme will not be overhyped will it ?

Uni ... you may well be right about the number of people in the usa being 1/16 Irish, but how many Irish are 1/16th American ?


[I][COLOR=#ff0000]If you would have been doing what captains are paid to do instead of out gallivanting around with Miss Moldovia (btw whose suitcase was later found in your cabin), perhaps you would have been there to see for yourself exactly where that point of turn on the fixed route was.[/COLOR][/I]
[I][COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR][/I]
[I][COLOR=black]I can only Assume that you have Ultimate Proof of this Fact that you state?[/COLOR][/I]

[I][COLOR=#ff0000]You don't consider the 37 people you slaughtered "massacre" enough?[/COLOR][/I]

Slaughtered? so you are claiming that Schettino knowingly picked those people out and killed them ?

Boy have i read some crap on here but that takes the Biscuit!! Edited July 6, 2012 by sidari

[cruiserfanfromct]

[quote name='sidari']Of course being CNN the programme will not be overhyped will it ?[/QUOTE] Don't know if and when it will be aired in the UK but just watch it and you decide.

[quote name='sidari']
[I][COLOR=#ff0000]If you would have been doing what captains are paid to do instead of out gallivanting around with Miss Moldovia (btw whose suitcase was later found in your cabin), perhaps you would have been there to see for yourself exactly where that point of turn on the fixed route was.[/COLOR][/I]
[I][COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR][/I]
[I][COLOR=black]I can only Assume that you have Ultimate Proof of this Fact that you state?[/COLOR][/I][/QUOTE] The divers found her suitcase in his cabin - google the video.

[quote name='sidari'][I][COLOR=#ff0000]You don't consider the 37 people you slaughtered "massacre" enough?[/COLOR][/I]

Slaughtered? so you are claiming that Schettino knowingly picked those people out and killed then ?

Boy have i read some crap on here but that takes the Biscuit!![/QUOTE]We say "take the cake" - thanks! Of course he didn't knowingly pick and kill, silly, but the end result is that they are dead no? This accident could have been totally prevented had it not been for gross negligence and ineptitude. More astounding news is now being leaked such as this:

[QUOTE]A raft of damaging new allegations, leaked from Italian magistrates, also suggested the main doors, which were meant to be sealed, were not closed properly and that the crew were using unauthorised maritime charts when the vessel ran aground on 13 January with more than 4,000 passengers and crew aboard.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-wrong-maps-doors-left-open-bad-wiring-is-this-why-costa-concordia-really-sank-7906895.html[/url]

Watch the CNN report - then we'll talk. ;)

[cruiserfanfromct]

[quote name='sidari']
... you may well be right about the number of people in the usa being 1/16 Irish, but how many Irish are 1/16th American ?[/QUOTE]

[quote name='sidari']....... i still fail to see what this has to do with Costa? unless of course there were Italians fighting with the English in 1776 .... ;)[/QUOTE]

[quote name='sidari']Boy have i read some crap on here but that takes the Biscuit!![/QUOTE] <<<<Ditto ;):D

[Uniall]

[quote name='sidari']Of course being CNN the programme will not be overhyped will it ?

Uni ... you may well be right about the number of people in the usa being 1/16 Irish, but how many Irish are 1/16th American ?


[I][COLOR=#ff0000]If you would have been doing what captains are paid to do instead of out gallivanting around with Miss Moldovia (btw whose suitcase was later found in your cabin), perhaps you would have been there to see for yourself exactly where that point of turn on the fixed route was.[/COLOR][/I]

[I][COLOR=black]I can only Assume that you have Ultimate Proof of this Fact that you state?[/COLOR][/I]

[I][COLOR=#ff0000]You don't consider the 37 people you slaughtered "massacre" enough?[/COLOR][/I]

Slaughtered? so you are claiming that Schettino knowingly picked those people out and killed them ?

Boy have i read some crap on here but that takes the Biscuit!![/quote]

Your post seems a disjointed series of non sequiters presented in stream of consciousness. Could you restate them in a more cogent form?

Regarding your question reagarding Irish anscestry directed to me, I was referring to the number of people in the USA (not usa) having at least one Irish Great Great Grandparent. The 40% figure is my present memory of past USA decenial census figures.

Your question asks how many Irish have at least one American Great Great Grandparent. That question would best be answered by the number with dual citizenship and I don't know who collects such data.

[sidari]

[COLOR=black]CT ... I do hope they show the CNN programme here and those made here in the states[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]The divers found her suitcase in his cabin - google the video.

[/COLOR][COLOR=black]Which proves nothing other than they found the case and contents![/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][COLOR=red]A raft of damaging new allegations, leaked from Italian magistrates, also suggested the main doors, which were meant to be sealed, were not closed properly and that the crew were using unauthorised maritime charts when the vessel ran aground on 13 January with more than 4,000 passengers and crew aboard. [/COLOR]

The above i think was posted a few days ago and there is nothing in it that was not already known, not much of a leak really from the court if of course it came from there. Only when the ship is righted and pumped out will we know which watertight doors were open and which were closed.

[COLOR=red]This accident could have been totally prevented had it not been for gross negligence and ineptitude. [/COLOR]

Which has yet still to be proved is it not?
[/COLOR]

Uni ... Thanks for the info re Ancestors, it may be helpful in my search with my family tree! Edited July 6, 2012 by sidari

[Tonka's Skipper]

[URL]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-wrong-maps-doors-left-open-bad-wiring-is-this-why-costa-concordia-really-sank-7906895.html[/URL]


I read that article and it was one of the poorer ones, not to mention mostly a lawyer piece for this group looking to get on board the vessel.

With most of the Radar underwater, any check that can be done still onboard the vessel, could be done ashore in a proper testing lab.

I am not 100% sure on the following, but I am checking it out.

1. No vessel has to have 100% of all equipment fully operating to sail. That I do know. I am checking if the black boxes are supposed to be fully operating. a black box is not important like a radar and a ship is not a plane, so the black boxes may not have been required to be operating. There may have a time period, where the vessel could still operate before the black boxes HAD to be fixed/replaced.

Vessels are often granted permission, by CG or port officials to sail without some equipment operating.

2. All ships, whether they have digital charts or not , have to have all paper charts for the area to be transited, up to date and on board.

The reason is simple...........what happens if the digital units dies at sea?

3.In my day........water tight doors while operating at sea, under normal conditions, did not have to be closed. I am checking if today's cruise ships have to have them closed at sea.

AKK Edited July 6, 2012 by Tonka's Skipper

[cruiserfanfromct]

[quote name='sidari'][COLOR=black]CT ... I do hope they show the CNN programme here and those made here in the states[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]The divers found her suitcase in his cabin - google the video.

[/COLOR][COLOR=black]Which proves nothing other than they found the case and contents![/COLOR][/QUOTE] Ok Sid - I'll give you this one but I think it's rather odd that a woman's suitcase would be in a man's cabin if the intentions were totally innocent.
[COLOR=black][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][COLOR=red][quote name='sidari']A raft of damaging new allegations, leaked from Italian magistrates, also suggested the main doors, which were meant to be sealed, were not closed properly and that the crew were using unauthorised maritime charts when the vessel ran aground on 13 January with more than 4,000 passengers and crew aboard. [/COLOR]

The above i think was posted a few days ago and there is nothing in it that was not already known, not much of a leak really from the court if of course it came from there. Only when the ship is righted and pumped out will we know which watertight doors were open and which were closed. [/QUOTE] Fair enough.

[quote name='sidari'][COLOR=red]This accident could have been totally prevented had it not been for gross negligence and ineptitude. [/COLOR]

Which has yet still to be proved is it not?
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]Will not give in on this one. This HAS been proved!!!! Just look at the photos of the ship for crying out loud. If this is not negligence and incompetency then I don't know what is! :eek:

[Uniall]

[quote name='sidari'][COLOR=black]CT ... I do hope they show the CNN programme here and those made here in the states[/COLOR]


[COLOR=red]The divers found her suitcase in his cabin - google the video. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]Which proves nothing other than they found the case and contents![/COLOR]


[COLOR=black][COLOR=red]A raft of damaging new allegations, leaked from Italian magistrates, also suggested the main doors, which were meant to be sealed, were not closed properly and that the crew were using unauthorised maritime charts when the vessel ran aground on 13 January with more than 4,000 passengers and crew aboard. [/COLOR]

The above i think was posted a few days ago and there is nothing in it that was not already known, not much of a leak really from the court if of course it came from there. Only when the ship is righted and pumped out will we know which watertight doors were open and which were closed.

[COLOR=red]This accident could have been totally prevented had it not been for gross negligence and ineptitude. [/COLOR]

Which has yet still to be proved is it not?
[/COLOR][/quote]





[COLOR=red]The divers found her suitcase in his cabin - google the video. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Which proves nothing other than they found the case and contents![/COLOR]
[COLOR=green]It's circumstantial evidence that the Captain had more on his mind than command of the ship[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][COLOR=red]A raft of damaging new allegations, leaked from Italian magistrates, also suggested the main doors, which were meant to be sealed, were not closed properly and that the crew were using unauthorised maritime charts when the vessel ran aground on 13 January with more than 4,000 passengers and crew aboard. [/COLOR]
The above i think was posted a few days ago and there is nothing in it that was not already known, not much of a leak really from the court if of course it came from there. Only when the ship is righted and pumped out will we know which watertight doors were open and which were closed.
[COLOR=#008000]It's circumstantial evidence that the Captain is responsible for failures gto carry out his duties and obligations as Master of the vessel.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=red]This accident could have been totally prevented had it not been for gross negligence and ineptitude. [/COLOR]
Which has yet still to be proved is it not?
[COLOR=darkgreen]There already is enough evidence adduced to convict Captain Schtino in the[U] Court of Public Opinion[/U] of gross negligence, gross dereliction of duty. gross imcompetence, and manslaughter. (ala O.J. Simpson, Casey Anthony, etc.)[/COLOR]

[COLOR=darkgreen]As for the [U]Civil Court[/U] and [U]Criminal Court[/U] verdicts, we must await the all but certain decision of the Civil Court and the probable decision of the Criminal Court.[/COLOR]
[/COLOR]

[sidari]

Ct ... Calm down ..... :D As far as a court of law either civil or maritime is concerned no one has been found guilty of negligence and incompetency as of yet! not saying i do not agree with you but until a lawful decision is made in a court you,me and everyone else can claim what we like because we have no bearing whatsoever on the outcome.

[COLOR=#008000]It's circumstantial evidence that the Captain had more on his mind than command of the ship ... [/COLOR][COLOR=black]come on Uni even you cannot prove that! whereas Schettino could prove it was only being stored there.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#008000]It's circumstantial evidence that the Captain is responsible for failures to carry out his duties and obligations as Master of the vessel ... [/COLOR][COLOR=black]again no proof due to the fact that no one knows if the doors were open or closed or if they are now.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#006400]There already is enough evidence adduced to convict Captain Schtino in the[U] Court of Public Opinion[/U] of gross negligence, gross dereliction of duty. gross imcompetence, and manslaughter. (ala O.J. Simpson, Casey Anthony, etc.) [/COLOR][COLOR=black]you and i both know that the "court of public opinion" will not be the one handing down any sentence.[/COLOR]

The last part of your post we do agree on.

[Uniall]

[quote name='sidari']Ct ... Calm down ..... :D As far as a court of law either civil or maritime is concerned no one has been found guilty of negligence and incompetency as of yet! not saying i do not agree with you but until a lawful decision is made in a court you,me and everyone else can claim what we like because we have no bearing whatsoever on the outcome.

[COLOR=#008000]It's circumstantial evidence that the Captain had more on his mind than command of the ship ... [/COLOR][COLOR=black]come on Uni even you cannot prove that! whereas Schettino could prove it was only being stored there.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#008000]It's circumstantial evidence that the Captain is responsible for failures to carry out his duties and obligations as Master of the vessel ... [/COLOR][COLOR=black]again no proof due to the fact that no one knows if the doors were open or closed or if they are now.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#006400]There already is enough evidence adduced to convict Captain Schtino in the[U] Court of Public Opinion[/U] of gross negligence, gross dereliction of duty. gross imcompetence, and manslaughter. (ala O.J. Simpson, Casey Anthony, etc.) [/COLOR][COLOR=black]you and i both know that the "court of public opinion" will not be the one handing down any sentence.[/COLOR]

The last part of your post we do agree on.[/quote]

There is no need for you to tell me to calm down. I'm not the least bit upset by your lack of knowledge of the rules of evidendence and a juries reaction to it. You persist in asserting legal theories and stratagies that I know, from personal and professional experience are wrong. Your continuing postion is based upon incorrect etherial generalizations and public misconceptions of the rules of evidence and litigation practice.


The suit cases in the Captain's cabin are circumstantial evidence that Schitino was involved in an intimate relationship with The Woman. A jury is instructed to use their own life experiences and common sense. Unless Schitino rebuts the suit cases in his cabin with believable counter evidence, the jury will find he had more on his mind than the ship, passengers and crew.

Likewise, apparently improperly closed water tight doors OR use on unauthorized maritime charts OR running aground are all circumstantial evidence that Schitino is guilty. In law, it creates a rebuttable presumption of negligence. If Schitino doesn't present believable counter evidence the jury will find him guilty.

The court of public opinion does have consequences. OJ is the perfect example. He spent several years with people he would meet ignoring him or calling him a murderer and he couldn't do anything about it because the law was watching his every move. He finally was sent to prison in Las Vegas, for something you and I would have drawn probation, because he had gotten away with murder in California.

Eventually, it will catch up with Casey Anthony, too.

[cruiserfanfromct]

[quote name='sidari']Ct ... Calm down ..... :D As far as a court of law either civil or maritime is concerned no one has been found guilty of negligence and incompetency as of yet! not saying i do not agree with you but until a lawful decision is made in a court you,me and everyone else can claim what we like because we have no bearing whatsoever on the outcome.[/QUOTE] Okay - we do agree here :) I admit being guilty of passing judgment based on what has been discussed, speculated, and theorized as well as the opinions of a few maritime experts on this thread. I realize that the court will decide the outcome.
Let's stay tuned to the next pretrial hearing in Grosseto on July 21st. :)

[sidari]

Uni ... Go back and read my last post and use all your lawyer instincts and tell me where i said for you to calm down.

You continue to berate us all with the laws and practice used within the USA which are not always custom and practice elsewhere and likely will not be used in any court in Italy. I do not persisit in asserting legal theories or strategies but merely put an opposite view to yours based on common sense and not hearsay of the Media.

So lets get this right divers are sent into Concordia to recover bodies and come out with a suitcase that they claim happens to be in Francesco Schettino`s cabin which he could have been storing for reasons currently known unto him, assuming of course that is where it was found!

Those very same divers could well be the people who have stolen the ships Bell from Concordia and so does not make them very reliable witnesses does it?

I stored many of my ex wife`s items in my house in the roof space after we divorced while she found a new place to live, but under what you claim with Schettino there must have been something going on between us because i offered to store her things!

In one of todays National newspapers in the UK a story claims Francesco Schettino is being spoken to by an American tv network with regards to a "tell all chat" could be very interesting if it is true. Edited July 7, 2012 by sidari

[sidari]

[B] You Can't Believe Everything You Read
[/B][SIZE=2][I]July 6 - [/I][/SIZE]Earlier this week, European newspapers began reporting on a "leaked report" from the investigation into the sinking of Costa Concordia. The story spread not only from paper to paper in Europe, but also around the world. Many added their own embellishments.
[I]The problem, according to Costa, is that it has no basis in truth.[/I]

[I]Taken from cruisenewsdaily.com [/I]

[url]http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/260750/Costa-Concordia-captain-Francesco-Schettino-cash-in/[/url]

[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2170089/The-Costa-Concodria-tragedy-claimed-lives-32-passengers--But-wont-stop-Captain-Coward-Francesco-Schettino-demanding-40-000-story.html[/url] Edited July 7, 2012 by sidari

[Uniall]

[quote name='sidari']Uni ... Go back and read my last post and use all your lawyer instincts and tell me where i said for you to calm down.

You continue to berate us all with the laws and practice used within the USA which are not always custom and practice elsewhere and likely will not be used in any court in Italy. I do not persisit in asserting legal theories or strategies but merely put an opposite view to yours based on common sense and not hearsay of the Media...............

In one of todays National newspapers in the UK a story claims Francesco Schettino is being spoken to by an American tv network with regards to a "tell all chat" could be very interesting if it is true.[/quote]

First of all, your style of writing (stream of consciousness) makes it difficult to know to whom you are addressing a particular comment within your post. (not using the quote button exacerbates the problem)
When you posted:
[INDENT][I][SIZE=1]Ct ... Calm down ..... :D As far as a court of law either civil or maritime is concerned no one has been found guilty of negligence and incompetency as of yet! not saying i do not agree with you but until a lawful decision is made in a court you,me and everyone else can claim what we like because we have no bearing whatsoever on the outcome[/SIZE][/I]
[/INDENT]I thought it was directed to me because I post legal thoughts and ideas.

Secondly, I do not "berate" people with laws that are inapplicable to other countries. Being a (still active) member of the International Association of Prosecutors, I have a excellent knowledge of both US and western European law and procedures.

But most importantly, I take exception to and disagree with your apparent position that it is improper to comment on the purported guilt or innocence of someone until after a court has taken evidence and ruled. That is not the reality of western law or society. The concept of "Innocent till proven guilty" refers to "in court" not "in the legal system" and not "in the community". So, police, prosecutors, news media make [U]pre trial [/U]determinations of guilt or innocence every day as part of their jobs.

Just because you may not want to hear that Captain Schitino (and probably other Costa personnel) is (are) guilty, from persons with greater knowledge and experience in law, doesn't permit you to object to their posts and attempt to silence and censor them.

Please, stop your continued attempts to censor and silence my posts on guilt or innocence. Edited July 7, 2012 by Uniall

[cruiserfanfromct]

Looks like Schettino will soon be lining his coffers.....

Just posting this news article. Please don't shoot the messenger.

Question: Does anyone know if you can profit (book deals, press deals) from a crime in Italy? I don't believe you can do this in the US. I realize Schettino has not been convicted yet but not sure how this would work if in fact he is convicted.

[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/costa-concordia-captain-poised-to-sell-story-in-100000-deals-7920653.html[/url]

[Uniall]

[quote name='sidari'][B] You Can't Believe Everything You Read [/B]
[SIZE=2][I]July 6 - [/I][/SIZE]Earlier this week, European newspapers began reporting on a "leaked report" from the investigation into the sinking of Costa Concordia. The story spread not only from paper to paper in Europe, but also around the world. Many added their own embellishments.
[I]The problem, according to Costa, is that it has no basis in truth.[/I]

[I]Taken from cruisenewsdaily.com [/I]

[URL]http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/260750/Costa-Concordia-captain-Francesco-Schettino-cash-in/[/URL]

[URL]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2170089/The-Costa-Concodria-tragedy-claimed-lives-32-passengers--But-wont-stop-Captain-Coward-Francesco-Schettino-demanding-40-000-story.html[/URL][/quote]

The first question an attorney would ask is: who has the greater motive to fabricate or embellish the truth, the news media or Costa Cruise Line?

The news media is looking for ratings and readers. Costa Cruise Lines is trying to contain negative comments to protect sales and prevent criminal fines and incarceration.

[balf]

[quote name='Uniall']


". So, police, prosecutors, news media make [U]pre trial [/U]determinations of guilt or innocence every day as part of their jobs.

Well that may be the case in USA but in England any report in the media will never make a determination of guilt pre or during trial. If they did they would be in contempt of court.

Maybe you could give an example of this happening in England.

David.

[Uniall]

[quote name='balf'][quote name='Uniall']


". So, police, prosecutors, news media make [U]pre trial [/U]determinations of guilt or innocence every day as part of their jobs.

Well that may be the case in USA but in England any report in the media will never make a determination of guilt pre or during trial. If they did they would be in contempt of court.

Maybe you could give an example of this happening in England.

David.[/quote]

The police and the prosecutors must reach an opinion and belief that a person is guilty of a crime before making an arrest followed by charging the person with a crime. You can't possibly mean that they arrest and charge people with crimes based upon the belief that they [U]might be[/U] guilty but it's up to the court to find out.

As for the Brit media. I've seen debates and discussions and reports on the guilt and or innocence in the Brit tabloids and Sky News. They couch it in terms of "in my opinion they may be guilty" etc. but the meaning is loud and clear.

The problem is the Brit liberal libel and slander laws because you don't have the high regard for freedom of speech as in the US.

[sidari]

Uni ... We may well be at cross purposes on certain areas, first off the fact that the post i refer to had the initials CT at the begining surely was a give away that it was not intended or directed at yourself ?

Nowhere have i ever said that i was or have tried to silence your thoughts or posts on what may be the legal process or its outcome, what i do object to however is people despite what happened becoming hanging judge and jury before a person has been found Guilty for their misdeeds in a court of Law. Unlikely though it is Schettino could be found innocent! what then ?

With regard to fabricating the Truth the Media so far are maybe on a par with Costa and in certain circumstances way ahead of them and they certainly were in the few weeks after the accident and also as can be seen within the two links i added in a previous post and that of the one CT has posted since.

Uni ... A question for you re employment law which i hope you may be able to answer .... can a person in the USA be sacked on the grounds of Probability ? ie the fact that you probably did something that an employer believes to be true is a sacking offence. Edited July 7, 2012 by sidari

[cruiserfanfromct]

[quote name='sidari']
....With regard to fabricating the Truth the Media so far are maybe on a par with Costa and in certain circumstances way ahead of them and they certainly were in the few weeks after the accident and also as can be seen within the two links i added in a previous post and that of the one CT has posted since.
[/QUOTE]
sid - Do you have proof that the shopping around for TV / Magazine / Book deals is not true? Please post the links.

It makes perfect sense for Schettino to seek these deals in order to support himself and his family. I don't believe he is still on Costa's payroll or independently wealthy. How else is he to make a living? Pay for his defense fund? There are news reports out of Italy today that confirm these deals are in the negotiation stages. While I personally think that it is wrong to profit from this tragedy, a man has to make a living, no?

As a reminder, the CNN special is tonight at 8:00pm EST - will be aired again tomorrow.

[Uniall]

[quote name='sidari']Uni ... We may well be at cross purposes on certain areas, first off the fact that the post i refer to had the initials CT at the begining surely was a give away that it was not intended or directed at yourself ?

Nowhere have i ever said that i was or have tried to silence your thoughts or posts on what may be the legal process or its outcome, what i do object to however is people despite what happened becoming hanging judge and jury before a person has been found Guilty for their misdeeds in a court of Law. Unlikely though it is Schettino could be found innocent! what then ?

With regard to fabricating the Truth the Media so far are maybe on a par with Costa and in certain circumstances way ahead of them and they certainly were in the few weeks after the accident and also as can be seen within the two links i added in a previous post and that of the one CT has posted since.

Uni ... A question for you re employment law which i hope you may be able to answer .... can a person in the USA be sacked on the grounds of Probability ? ie the fact that you probably did something that an employer believes to be true is a sacking offence.[/quote]

In the US, most states follow the common law that an employee can be fired at will for no reason at all.

Some employees, government (by law) & unionized (by contract) require due process showing of improper acts.

Most states follow the view that to fire a "protected" worker requires a showing of guilt by substantial or manifest weight of the evidence. That means there is enough evidence for a reasonable person to conclude guilt even if others might disagree. This provides ascending levels of required evidence for guilt:
Administrative Tribunals: Substantial Evidence
Civil Courts: Perponderance of the Evidence
Crinminal Courts: Beyond Reasoanble Doubt

But our most liberal states have been pushed by government employee unions, all but require conviction in criminal courts. This is the case in California where a proposed law to remove teachers accused of pediphilia prior to criminal conviction was defeated by the teachers union.

[sidari]

CT .... I think you misunderstood my post re TV / Book deals, i believe those to be true and i can understand why Schettino would want them, a lot of what the Media have stated is fabricated to suit their individual stories.

Uni ... Thanks for the info re Employee rights. A person here in the UK can be sacked on the frounds of Probability regardless of being a union member. Edited July 7, 2012 by sidari

[balf]

[quote name='Uniall'][quote=balf;
. They couch it in terms of "in my opinion they may be guilty" etc. but the meaning is loud and clear.

[/QUOTE]

No they don't, you can't give any examaples of this term bening written or quoted in the British media. What they usually say is "the prosecution will alledge, which is entirely different.

David.

[Uniall]

[quote name='balf'][quote name='Uniall']

No they don't, you can't give any examaples of this term bening written or quoted in the British media. What they usually say is "the prosecution will alledge, which is entirely different.

David.[/quote]

I don't keep a log of my Sky News but I've seen it and wouldn't say so if I had not. Before I retired I worked with your Office of Major Fraud Prosecutions and it was more than reporting what would be alleged.

[judyzoo]

Has anyone seen the recent CNN program on the sinking? I missed two earlier showings today but am hoping to catch it tonight, starting in about 10 minutes. I hope there's something new and enlightening in it.