Concordia News: Please Post Here

[Ratt]

[quote name='Vampire Parrot']Just watching that had me sweating...... enough said.

VP[/QUOTE]

I know there are different opinions of the captain and other officers of the Concordia but watching the video of the radar reminded me of something that I thought about when the whole thing happened, and that is how the captain and other officers felt and reacted at the moment they realized just how bad the situation was. They had to basically freak out and I believe that the captain was to some extent in shock. I also believe that as the events unfolded it got worse.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be repercussions for the actions of the people that were charged with the safety of the passenger and crew but that I think the captain wasn't thinking correctly once the accident happened.

I know a person who was responsible for an auto accident that killed another person. Less then a half hour after the accident the police had to call a family member of the person to go to the hospital as the police had the person transported to the hospital due to the fact that they had gone into shock. They were in a state of shock for a couple of days and depression lasted for months. Thankfully they went to counselling which made a huge difference and helped them get past a very terrible situation.

[Tonka's Skipper]

[quote name='cruiserfanfromct']From Corriere De La Sera - a radar image timeline showing Schettino in charge at the moment of impact:

[URL]http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2012/07/11/pop_concordia-mappa.shtml[/URL][/quote]

He was responsible for the navigation and safety of his vessel...........especially when he was intending to be close in shore and was on the bridge.

This was not a case of some junior Deck Officer getting into trouble and calling the Captain out of his bed to late to be able to do anything!


AKK

[Uniall]

[quote name='Ratt']I know there are different opinions of the captain and other officers of the Concordia but watching the video of the radar reminded me of something that I thought about when the whole thing happened, and that is how the captain and other officers felt and reacted at the moment they realized just how bad the situation was. They had to basically freak out and I believe that the captain was to some extent in shock. I also believe that as the events unfolded it got worse.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be repercussions for the actions of the people that were charged with the safety of the passenger and crew but that I think the captain wasn't thinking correctly once the accident happened.

I know a person who was responsible for an auto accident that killed another person. Less then a half hour after the accident the police had to call a family member of the person to go to the hospital as the police had the person transported to the hospital due to the fact that they had gone into shock. They were in a state of shock for a couple of days and depression lasted for months. Thankfully they went to counselling which made a huge difference and helped them get past a very terrible situation.[/quote]

I have absolutely no compassion for the Captain and I can not understand the thought process of anyone who has an ounce of compassion for him.

He's not a teenager borrowing Daddy's car on a Saturday night. He's a supposed trained professional whose sole job and responsibility is the safe navigation of a ship soley for the benefit and enjoyment of the passengers.

Instead he chose to sail into a close to shore danger zone in an egomanical effort to win the kudos of a former company employee, the islands residents and an off duty employee dancer with whom he was using the cruise for his own adulterous self gratification.

In my book, this guy is such a sociopath that he will never be haunted by the deaths he caused. But, if he did, I would ban any psychiatric counseling and instead make him listen to pre recorded, just barely audible, messages every night for life: "murderer, murderer, murderer.............". During the day, I would encourage any one he met to say the same thing.

For Captain Schitino: No Compassion & No Forgiveness.
That is my postition from which there is: No Retreat & No Surrender.

[Tonka's Skipper]

[COLOR=Red]on manual navigation when the impact occurred[/COLOR].

This is the one thing I see that was done correctly. When in that close to shore you never trust auto pilot or a GPS...you always go to hand steering and direct the vessel navigation yourself.

Any Deck Officer with experience, would handle the vessel better then a GSP and auto pilot.

AKK

[SomeBeach]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Tourism on Giglio[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[URL]http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/13/12722069-costa-concordia-disaster-spawns-shipwreck-tourism-for-italian-island?lite[/URL]

[SomeBeach]

[quote=Tonka's Skipper;34519944][COLOR=red]on manual navigation when the impact occurred[/COLOR].

This is the one thing I see that was done correctly. When in that close to shore you never trust auto pilot or a GPS...you always go to hand steering and direct the vessel navigation yourself.

Any Deck Officer with experience, would handle the vessel better then a GSP and auto pilot.

AKK[/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]And when a ship is in manual navigation mode, none of the DO's should be distracted by anything.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Tonka's Skipper]

[quote name='SomeBeach'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]And when a ship is in manual navigation mode, none of the DO's should be distracted by anything.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]


Totally and 100% correct!.


This goes for any Officer on watch! The navigation and deck watch is NOT a social event!.This seems to have been one of the captains and the Deck Officers big errors.

AKK

[cruiserfanfromct]

[QUOTE=Tonka's Skipper;34519944][COLOR=Red]on manual navigation when the impact occurred[/COLOR].

This is the one thing I see that was done correctly. When in that close to shore you never trust auto pilot or a GPS...you always go to hand steering and direct the vessel navigation yourself.

Any Deck Officer with experience, would handle the vessel better then a GSP and auto pilot.

AKK[/QUOTE] Ok but wasn't the Concordia going way too fast? Isn't 15 knots too high a speed for maneuvering so close to shore even on manual mode? And while he said he had consulted radar and maps, Schettino seems to have been navigating largely by his own eyesight and without glasses while distracted on a cell phone. If this isn't gross negligence I don't know what is! :confused:

[sidari]

[COLOR=red]"He's a supposed trained professional whose sole job and responsibility is the safe navigation of a ship soley for the benefit and enjoyment of the passengers"
[/COLOR]
So you are telling us that a ships Captain has no other duties while onboard his or her ship ?

[COLOR=red]"an off duty employee dancer with whom he was using the cruise for his own adulterous self gratification"[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][COLOR=black]And of course you have the written proof of that claim ?[/COLOR]

"I would ban any psychiatric counseling and instead make him listen to pre recorded, just barely audible, messages every night for life: "murderer, murderer, murderer.............". During the day, I would encourage any one he met to say the same thing"

[COLOR=black]So by your claim you would ban someone injured in a car accident from getting treatment if it was likely they caused the accident? and Schettino is a murderer now then because he set out from Civitavecchia to kill 32 people ?
[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]I think you need to go see your shrink!
[/COLOR]
[/COLOR]

[Tonka's Skipper]

[quote name='cruiserfanfromct']Ok but wasn't the Concordia going way too fast? Isn't 15 knots too high a speed for maneuvering so close to shore even on manual mode? And while he said he had consulted radar and maps, Schettino seems to have been navigating largely by his own eyesight and without glasses while distracted on a cell phone. If this isn't gross negligence I don't know what is! :confused:[/quote]


I agree totally, he was going to fast.....or at least the deck officer he took command from was going to fast ............5 knots to me way of thinking would have been enough to have proper steerage way!

That close in he should have been using radar and his eyes.


The bottom line is that he should have been in command long before that vessel got anywhere that close to shore, even on the intended track.

The more he talks.......IE the distractions........ the more he is sinking any defense he may have!


AKK Edited July 13, 2012 by Tonka's Skipper

[cruiserfanfromct]

[quote name='sidari'].....and Schettino is a murderer now then because he set out from Civitavecchia to kill 32 people ?
[/QUOTE] While he didn't set out to kill 32 people, maneuvering the cruise ship so close to shore at such a high speed in a reckless manner was a premeditated act which resulted in 32 deaths. This is manslaughter by gross negligence.

[Uniall]

[quote name='sidari'][COLOR=red]"He's a supposed trained professional whose sole job and responsibility is the safe navigation of a ship soley for the benefit and enjoyment of the passengers"[/COLOR]

So you are telling us that a ships Captain has no other duties while onboard his or her ship ?

[COLOR=red]"an off duty employee dancer with whom he was using the cruise for his own adulterous self gratification"[/COLOR]

[COLOR=red][COLOR=black]And of course you have the written proof of that claim ?[/COLOR]

"I would ban any psychiatric counseling and instead make him listen to pre recorded, just barely audible, messages every night for life: "murderer, murderer, murderer.............". During the day, I would encourage any one he met to say the same thing"

[COLOR=black]So by your claim you would ban someone injured in a car accident from getting treatment if it was likely they caused the accident? and Schettino is a murderer now then because he set out from Civitavecchia to kill 32 people ?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]I think you need to go see your shrink![/COLOR]

[/COLOR][/quote]

I've grown weary of the hand wringing wusses of the world who apologize for every grevious criminal who wreaks havoc on innocent citizens and bystanders.

Captain Schitino should have had no other duties than protecting his ship, passengers and crew.

You don't need written proof to conclude he invited her on the cruise for a tryst. You just have to live in the real world and set aside whining and sniveling about protecting the criminal predators of society.

No, as I pointed out, Captain Schitino was not driving a car. If you want an automotive analogy, I've got one that fits the circumstances.
[INDENT]He was a long distance bus driver with a bus full of passengers, who was driving on the cliff edge of curving mountain road, on the wrong side of the road at a high rate of speed, so he could wave hello to a fellow bus driver who lived in the valley, and to impress a girl friend who was sitting in his lap.
[/INDENT]The mere suggestion that Captain Schitino has not earned the animosity (from the word "animus") anger, hatred and revulsion of right thinking human beings makes me want to puke. Edited July 13, 2012 by Uniall

[Vampire Parrot]

I said that just watching the track plot made me sweat. I've just watched it again. These are my opinions on what I saw and how it made me feel. The moments leading up to the collision are what upset me.

When the clock at the bottom says 21:38 I'd be on full alert, because the ship is heading directly towards nearby land at 15 knots. One nautical mile every four minutes. I'm not worried, approaching land is routine but we should be monitoring our position extremely closely, and be prepared to slow down and/or turn to starboard if at any point we are at all unsure of our position.

At 21:41 the range is changed to 1.5nm. I would have manually changed the range earlier because lower rangers show more detail. Ahead and to port is the island, and there are rocks off our starboard bow. We're still doing 15 knots, we should have turned before now. We're going tooo fast. We're less than a mile from land and heading towards it. We're in danger. Turn, for God's sake, turn!

21:43. We have barely turned. We're heading directly towards the outcrop at 15 knots.

21:44. We've finally started our turn. If I'd been a deck officer on that ship I'd have hit the "close all watertight doors" button at this point without waiting for instruction from the Captain. It looks like the bow is going to miss, but the port quarter is probably going to glance against the outcrop, because the ship pivots around a point approximately 1/3 the ship's length from the bow. At this stage a collision is probably unavoidable. Perhaps putting the helm to port as we pass the rock, thus swinging the stern to starboard, might just enable us to clear the rock. (I think this is what the Captain tried to do).

21:45. The port quarter hits the rock.

Well, I'm disappearing for eight days... no internet, no email.

VP Edited July 13, 2012 by Vampire Parrot

[cruiserfanfromct]

[quote name='Vampire Parrot']I said that just watching the track plot made me sweat. I've just watched it again. These are my opinions on what I saw and how it made me feel. The moments leading up to the collision are what upset me.

When the clock at the bottom says 21:38 I'd be on full alert, because the ship is heading directly towards nearby land at 15 knots. One nautical mile every four minutes. I'm not worried, approaching land is routine but we should be monitoring our position extremely closely, and be prepared to slow down and/or turn to starboard if at any point we are at all unsure of our position.

At 21:41 the range is changed to 1.5nm. I would have manually changed the range earlier because lower rangers show more detail. Ahead and to port is the island, and there are rocks off our starboard bow. We're still doing 15 knots, we should have turned before now. We're going tooo fast. We're less than a mile from land and heading towards it. We're in danger. Turn, for God's sake, turn!

21:43. We have barely turned. We're heading directly towards the outcrop at 15 knots.

21:44. We've finally started our turn. If I'd been a deck officer on that ship I'd have hit the "close all watertight doors" button at this point without waiting for instruction from the Captain. It looks like the bow is going to miss, but the port quarter is probably going to glance against the outcrop, because the ship pivots around a point approximately 1/3 the ship's length from the bow. At this stage a collision is probably unavoidable. Perhaps putting the helm to port as we pass the rock, thus swinging the stern to starboard, might just enable us to clear the rock. (I think this is what the Captain tried to do).

21:45. The port quarter hits the rock.

Well, I'm disappearing for eight days... no internet, no email.

VP[/QUOTE]
Thanks for this account VP. I just watched it again with your comments in mind and all I can say is HOLY S**T!

[SomeBeach]

[quote name='cruiserfanfromct']Thanks for this account VP. I just watched it again with your comments in mind and all I can say is HOLY S**T![/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Yeah, what she said. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]I had followed times when I watched it the first time but watching with your comments helped me to understand it better.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]Enjoy your time away.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]Sidari, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, chances are it is a duck. By this woman's own admission, she had a thing for the Captain and from at least one picture that was published, he was out to dinner with her at a restaurant not on the ship. Quack, quack. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]You must also understand how the mind of a mistress works. I do as my now ex-husband had one, which is why I rarely comment on this topic. She fit the bill.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]That said, that is between him and his wife unless it interfers with his job. I do believe she was one part of the distraction the Captain had. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[CruisersNC]

While he didn't set out to kill 32 people, maneuvering the cruise ship so close to shore at such a high speed in a reckless manner was a premeditated act which resulted in 32 deaths. This is manslaughter by gross negligence.

 

 

Well said!

[sidari]

"While he didn't set out to kill 32 people, maneuvering the cruise ship so close to shore at such a high speed in a reckless manner was a premeditated act which resulted in 32 deaths. This is manslaughter by gross negligence"

 

 

Which still has to be proved in a court of law! ah manslaughter now? not Murder as claimed by our resident lawyer.

[Uniall]

"While he didn't set out to kill 32 people, maneuvering the cruise ship so close to shore at such a high speed in a reckless manner was a premeditated act which resulted in 32 deaths. This is manslaughter by gross negligence"

 

 

Which still has to be proved in a court of law! ah manslaughter now? not Murder as claimed by our resident lawyer.

 

For someone who knows so very little law, you should not be making any legal pronounements.

 

In some jurisdictions, negligent homicide is deemed manslaughter. In other jurisdictions, it is deemed second or third degree murder. And for the Nth time is does not have to be provbed in a court of law. It already has been proven in the court of public opinion for the vast majority of rational human beings. Except for thrill seekers, sociopaths, and people with learning disabilities Captain Schitino will be shunned and called murderer for life. Even mass murderers regularly receive love letters & marriage proposals while awaiting the death penalty. If Schitino draws jail time, which I believe will happen, you could be his Numero Uno pen pal.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Uniall

[MorganMars]

I have some favorite quotes on Opinions, public or otherwise. 1) From Winston Churchill, "There is no such thing as public opinion. There is only published opinion." 2) From James Fennimore Cooper, "It is a besetting vice of democracies to substitute public opinion for law. This is the usual form in which masses of men exhibit their tyranny." But, perhaps the best one is from Rodney Dangerfield, "My psychiatrist told me I'm going crazy. I told him, "If you don't mind, I'd like a second opinion." He said, "All right. You're ugly too!" I try to keep that one in mind whenever I'm on a social network so I can remember that it is all just opinion.

 

It already has been proven in the court of public opinion for the vast majority of rational human beings.

[Tonka's Skipper]

I said that just watching the track plot made me sweat. I've just watched it again. These are my opinions on what I saw and how it made me feel. The moments leading up to the collision are what upset me.

 

When the clock at the bottom says 21:38 I'd be on full alert, because the ship is heading directly towards nearby land at 15 knots. One nautical mile every four minutes. I'm not worried, approaching land is routine but we should be monitoring our position extremely closely, and be prepared to slow down and/or turn to starboard if at any point we are at all unsure of our position.

 

At 21:41 the range is changed to 1.5nm. I would have manually changed the range earlier because lower rangers show more detail. Ahead and to port is the island, and there are rocks off our starboard bow. We're still doing 15 knots, we should have turned before now. We're going tooo fast. We're less than a mile from land and heading towards it. We're in danger. Turn, for God's sake, turn!

 

21:43. We have barely turned. We're heading directly towards the outcrop at 15 knots.

 

21:44. We've finally started our turn. If I'd been a deck officer on that ship I'd have hit the "close all watertight doors" button at this point without waiting for instruction from the Captain. It looks like the bow is going to miss, but the port quarter is probably going to glance against the outcrop, because the ship pivots around a point approximately 1/3 the ship's length from the bow. At this stage a collision is probably unavoidable. Perhaps putting the helm to port as we pass the rock, thus swinging the stern to starboard, might just enable us to clear the rock. (I think this is what the Captain tried to do).

 

21:45. The port quarter hits the rock.

 

Well, I'm disappearing for eight days... no internet, no email.

 

VP

 

 

Well layed out VP.

 

The only thing I would add is that I feel she was doomed to hit the rock way back at 21:38. Even at 1.5 miles away, do to her size and handling abilities (as you noted it takes time to get her turning). She would still have hit, no matter what actions where taken at that time!

 

She was plain and simply way to far inshore and going to fast!

 

Even her thrusters would have been of no value at 15 knots!

 

 

The more this is layed out, the more I can only shake my head in amazement at so many things done wrong. Please note I said *DONE* wrong and not *GONE* wrong!

 

AKK

[cruiserfanfromct]

"While he didn't set out to kill 32 people, maneuvering the cruise ship so close to shore at such a high speed in a reckless manner was a premeditated act which resulted in 32 deaths. This is manslaughter by gross negligence"

 

 

Which still has to be proved in a court of law! ah manslaughter now? not Murder as claimed by our resident lawyer.

 

It is stating the obvious that this discussion forum is merely a place to voice our opinions and not a court of law. We are all entitled to our opinions however diverse they might be and all our thoughts and ideas should be respected. It is hard to believe our discussions are tainting the jury pool as the average Italian is not following this thread nor reading Cruise Critic.

 

After the incident, Captain Schettino was arrested on preliminary charges of multiple manslaughter in connection with causing a shipwreck, failing to assist over 300 passengers, and failing to be the last to leave the wreck. He was subsequently also charged with failing to describe to maritime authorities the scope of the disaster.

 

http://www.marsecreview.com/2012/01/charges-against-francesco-schettino/

 

It is up to the Italian courts to decide Schettino's fate. Meanwhile, we are allowed to debate this topic as we please following the laws of freedom of expression for which we can thank our forefathers.

[cruiserfanfromct]

The MSNBC documentary is now on YouTube sans commercial interruptions:

 

[cruiserfanfromct]

From CBS news this morning - video illustrates how salvagers plan to refloat the Concordia and 6 month anniversary report.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-33816_162-57472390/how-salvagers-plan-to-re-float-costa-concordia/

[balf]

ls while awaiting the death penalty. If Schitino draws jail time, which I believe will happen, you could be his Numero Uno pen pal.

 

Death penalty? We're not in USA on this one, boy wouldn't you love to see him burn.

 

David.

[GregnChris]

Don't forget that this happened in Italy, so it is Italian law that applies. Discussing how things should/would/could happen in the US courts may be interesting, but most likely that is now how things will play out in Italy. Not only are there differences in Law between US and Italy, but also differences in how investigations are conducted, charges filed, procedures used in courts, etc.

 

From what I understand, Italian Law operates much slower than that in the US. I would not be surprised to see the criminal case dragging on for 4 to 6 years, or even more.

 

From my perspective, the most important thing is that Captain Schettino never get anther command.

 

Greg

 

BTW, the pilot that caused to Cosco Busan oil spill in the SF Bay has applied to get his pilot's license restored.