Concordia News: Please Post Here

[Aplmac]

Tonka .... I believe the rock that is buried in the side of concordia was underwater and not visible from the surface.

Oh yes, I agree...it was probably at a depth of something like 10-20 ft. underwater.

It was probably a basal member of the cluster sticking out from shore on that 'nose'

said cluster is shown on the charts as lots of little ++++'s

...i.e. "awash" at low tide

 

That Individual Rock still stuck in the hull may indeed have been uncharted, I'll grant anyone that.

-even though That Rock had close family and relatives very near by... ;) :D

 

 

He wanted to show off/test his skill

by skimming as close as he possibly could, without actually hitting it

but he misjudged it by maybe 20-30 ft. laterally.

 

Nice try, My Hero Schettino -but you failed.

 

----------------

 

So glad they sent divers down at Le Scole rocks

because they found and photographed bits-of-ship left behind

(see attachment I Saved, back in Jan.....below)

.

[sidari]

Aplmac .... I take it you have seen the video of the underwater rock and the metal? Time will tell if it is proved if Schettino was showing off!

[MorganMars]

Sidari,

 

Yes, that's the one. I couldn't remember the name and didn't have time to look it up before posting, so thanks for adding that.

 

There is a Wikipedia article about it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Sea_Diamond and several articles right here on CC in the Cruise News archives.

 

Regards,

MorganMars

 

Morgan .... was the case you refer to at Santorini? where the MS Sea Diamond hit a rock/reef that was charted in the wrong place, we were there recently and one of the bar owners told us that the ship has been towed to deep water before it sank.

 

The Greek government are still fighting the owners in order to have the ship raised and moved.

 

Tonka .... i believe the rock that is buried in the side of concordia was underwater and not visible from the surface.

[Aplmac]

Aplmac .... I take it you have seen the video of the underwater rock and the metal?

Time will tell if it is proved if Schettino was showing off!

No I haven't!

Can you provide me with a URL??

 

I was just Saving still-pics like mad in the few weeks after the 'crash'

sticking them all in one special folder, for future reference. :)

.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Aplmac

[Tonka's Skipper]

Oh yes, I agree...it was probably at a depth of something like 10-20 ft. underwater.

It was probably a basal member of the cluster sticking out from shore on that 'nose'

said cluster is shown on the charts as lots of little ++++'s

...i.e. "awash" at low tide

 

That Individual Rock still stuck in the hull may indeed have been uncharted, I'll grant anyone that.

-even though That Rock had close family and relatives very near by... ;) :D

 

 

He wanted to show off/test his skill

by skimming as close as he possibly could, without actually hitting it

but he misjudged it by maybe 20-30 ft. laterally.

 

Nice try, My Hero Schettino -but you failed.

 

----------------

 

So glad they sent divers down at Le Scole rocks

because they found and photographed bits-of-ship left behind

(see attachment I Saved, back in Jan.....below)

.

 

 

 

OK....I do like that *family and friends nearby*.....LOL

 

 

I still don't think he was playing a game of *how close can I get to the rock*

 

I think he was in social Captian mode and his attention was on other matters and he was not aware of how close he was to the Rocksa,.

 

But time will time on that!

 

AKK

[Tonka's Skipper]

Uniall, I have a question .....

 

In Italian coursts, would the Captain have the right not to testify?....or is he reqiured to?

 

Same question, but not in court, but in a investigation, EI ICG.....???

[Uniall]

Uniall' date=' I have a question .....

 

In Italian coursts, would the Captain have the right not to testify?....or is he reqiured to?

 

Same question, but not in court, but in a investigation, EI ICG.....???[/quote']

 

That's a question involving the gray area between substantive law and rules of evidence. I don't know about Italy in particular but the general rule in Western Europe in criminal cases is you may not be forced to testify against yourself BUT an inferenced of guilt may be interpreted by the finder of fact (judge or jury)

 

The UK and the USA had the rule that no inference of guilt could attach but Parlaiment changed that about a decade or so ago.

 

All of the of the western world countries apply relax or eliminate the rule to civil cases. Italy intertwines the civil and criminal. That's why I'm uncertain about the application in Italy.

 

And, now we have the European Union Courts tryingto carve out uniformity of laws.....................Oh boy ?

Edited June 24, 2012 by Uniall

[Vampire Parrot]

I still don't think he was playing a game of *how close can I get to the rock*

 

I think he was in social Captian mode and his attention was on other matters and he was not aware of how close he was to the Rocksa,.

 

Agreed. And then brings up some very obvious questions - did the other deck officers tell the Captain they were not on the planned course? If not, why not? If they did, why did they not take over when it became obvious the ship was heading into dangerous waters? These are to me perhaps the most important questions that need answering.

 

I'm not concerned that the planned "sail-by" course would have taken Costa Concordia within a mile or so of the island - because that course had been properly planned, and if executed correctly, would have been safe.

 

VP

[Uniall]

Agreed. And then brings up some very obvious questions - did the other deck officers tell the Captain they were not on the planned course? If not, why not? If they did, why did they not take over when it became obvious the ship was heading into dangerous waters? These are to me perhaps the most important questions that need answering.

 

I'm not concerned that the planned "sail-by" course would have taken Costa Concordia within a mile or so of the island - because that course had been properly planned, and if executed correctly, would have been safe.

 

VP

 

I confess that I haven't got a clue why people are not outraged by sail byes. This is a serious question and not intended to belittle your views.

 

When I board a cruise ship, it is with the belief that the operations of the ship are for the benefit and enjoyment of the passengers 24/7 and not the benefit and enjoyment of the crew, past and present. In my view, if there was no sail byes at all, there could never be a heightened risk of getting too close to shore.

 

What is the basis of your justification of sail byes?

[mickey_d_mouse]

Okay my cruise critic experts - I need your help, is there any way to identify which lawyers are running class actions in regards to the concordia in various countries.

 

Yes I know I should have signed up to one by now but I really really hate dealing with them, I first spoke to one in the Uk who stopped talking to me then sent me a letter with a large percentage, then talked to one in Italy who has not responded to emails for the past three months. In the meantime I have been dealing with a Shipping agent here in the land of oz who is representing Costa and seems to be trying to settle things for us.

[cruiserfanfromct]

Hi Mickey D,

 

Here's an alternative view to the class action route by American law firm Proner & Proner. I would evaluate all options before choosing a course of action.

 

After evaluating the legal issues surrounding a class action in this particular case, we feel that filing a class-action on behalf of victims of the Costa Concordia cruise ship accident is not in their best interests at this point. Instead, we have filed individual actions collectively out of the belief that approaching this case as a mass tort rather than a class action will result in the greatest likelihood of our clients receiving the most significant economic recovery possible.

 

Read more: http://www.prolaw1.com/blog/2012/01/23/mitchell-proner-leading-litigation-against-costa-concordia-operating-company-72668

 

 

Okay my cruise critic experts - I need your help, is there any way to identify which lawyers are running class actions in regards to the concordia in various countries.

 

Yes I know I should have signed up to one by now but I really really hate dealing with them, I first spoke to one in the Uk who stopped talking to me then sent me a letter with a large percentage, then talked to one in Italy who has not responded to emails for the past three months. In the meantime I have been dealing with a Shipping agent here in the land of oz who is representing Costa and seems to be trying to settle things for us.

[SomeBeach]

But, how are you seeing it? All we see is some equipment near the ship, but that's all I see due to the camera not focusing any closer. I guess it's better than nothing, but....

 

Sorry for not answering earlier but I was out of town.

I use The Last Salute for a better view of what work is being done. I can get a better idea of what is being done by using the zoom feature on my puter.

[MorganMars]

Unial,

 

It is 2:15 in the morning and I am in the middle of a Tropical Storm, so I don't have a lot of time, but I wanted to acknowledge your question.

 

From the mariners perspective, there are times when it is safer to be close to shore. For one thing, it is the only way that you can dock.;) Additionally, there are some passages that cannot be made without being in close proximity to navigational hazards (the hard edges around the sea as one captain use to say.) This is complicated by the fact that operating a vessel is nothing like operating a car as there are so many more forces to take into account. A good captain will do that and not let a sail by become a threat to passenger safety. Also, the sail bys are typically done for the benefit of passengers entertainment, not as a salute to some fellow employee, as most landlubbers get bored silly after watching the sea for any length of time. Letting one incident dictate all future navigational decisions is simply not practical or reasonable.

 

I do understand that you feel strongly in this matter and I wonder if you see it as cause and effect. For me, it is not. For me, it was a matter of the Captain not knowing where he was. The first rule of navigation is to know your position at all times. He should have known, especially considering the maneuver he was attempting. We sometimes make navigational errors (it is a challenging skill, since there are no road markings on the sea) and I would cut him some slack for that, if he had not botched the rest of the operation so badly.

 

My outrage is at the failure to take immediate action to attend to the safety of the passengers once he knew he had struck the rocks, by failing to notify the Coast Guard and summoning assistance and then, finally, the abandonment of his passengers and leaving it to more dedicated mariners to clean up the mess. Attempting a sail by is nothing in comparison to all that. Consider an alternate scenario where an less senior officer hits the rocks, but the Captain then assesses the situation, sends out the distress signal, supervises an organized evacuation of the ship and is the last one to be lifted off the ship by helicopter, or even more dramatically, drowns in the bowels of the ship while successfully rescueing a beautiful little girl. That captain then would be hailed as a hero. That was not this man whether he did a sail by or not.

 

That is all I have time to discuss for now, but I hope that this will provide you with another perspective that you may be able to consider as valid and reasonable and not a justification.

 

Regards,

MorganMars

 

I confess that I haven't got a clue why people are not outraged by sail byes. This is a serious question and not intended to belittle your views.

 

When I board a cruise ship, it is with the belief that the operations of the ship are for the benefit and enjoyment of the passengers 24/7 and not the benefit and enjoyment of the crew, past and present. In my view, if there was no sail byes at all, there could never be a heightened risk of getting too close to shore.

 

What is the basis of your justification of sail byes?

[RuthlessBoss]

Sorry for not answering earlier but I was out of town.

 

I use The Last Salute for a better view of what work is being done. I can get a better idea of what is being done by using the zoom feature on my puter.

I'll check it out, I'm not computer savy, hope I have a zoom feature.

[Tonka's Skipper]

Agreed. And then brings up some very obvious questions - did the other deck officers tell the Captain they were not on the planned course? If not, why not? If they did, why did they not take over when it became obvious the ship was heading into dangerous waters? These are to me perhaps the most important questions that need answering.

 

I'm not concerned that the planned "sail-by" course would have taken Costa Concordia within a mile or so of the island - because that course had been properly planned, and if executed correctly, would have been safe.

 

VP

 

I agree and have been asking in my mind and here...what was the Duty Officer doing/thinking???. However, taking command from a Master on the bridge is not something done easily........legally if he did, he better have 21 good reasons why and then theres the question of would the bridge personel take the Duty Officers orders over the Masters?????.

 

I do know ..if I was the duty Officer and was aware, as I should have been, of the vessels track..I would have been in the Masters face yelling to get his attention!

 

 

The sail by/showboating is a whole other matter!

 

AKK

Edited June 25, 2012 by Tonka's Skipper

[Tonka's Skipper]

I confess that I haven't got a clue why people are not outraged by sail byes. This is a serious question and not intended to belittle your views.

 

When I board a cruise ship, it is with the belief that the operations of the ship are for the benefit and enjoyment of the passengers 24/7 and not the benefit and enjoyment of the crew, past and present. In my view, if there was no sail byes at all, there could never be a heightened risk of getting too close to shore.

 

What is the basis of your justification of sail byes?

 

 

I totally agree with you on this sailby/showboating thing.......it's just plain nor nessary!

 

AKK

[Tonka's Skipper]

Unial,

 

It is 2:15 in the morning and I am in the middle of a Tropical Storm, so I don't have a lot of time, but I wanted to acknowledge your question.

 

From the mariners perspective, there are times when it is safer to be close to shore. For one thing, it is the only way that you can dock.;) Additionally, there are some passages that cannot be made without being in close proximity to navigational hazards (the hard edges around the sea as one captain use to say.) This is complicated by the fact that operating a vessel is nothing like operating a car as there are so many more forces to take into account. A good captain will do that and not let a sail by become a threat to passenger safety. Also, the sail bys are typically done for the benefit of passengers entertainment, not as a salute to some fellow employee, as most landlubbers get bored silly after watching the sea for any length of time. Letting one incident dictate all future navigational decisions is simply not practical or reasonable.

 

I do understand that you feel strongly in this matter and I wonder if you see it as cause and effect. For me, it is not. For me, it was a matter of the Captain not knowing where he was. The first rule of navigation is to know your position at all times. He should have known, especially considering the maneuver he was attempting. We sometimes make navigational errors (it is a challenging skill, since there are no road markings on the sea) and I would cut him some slack for that, if he had not botched the rest of the operation so badly.

 

My outrage is at the failure to take immediate action to attend to the safety of the passengers once he knew he had struck the rocks, by failing to notify the Coast Guard and summoning assistance and then, finally, the abandonment of his passengers and leaving it to more dedicated mariners to clean up the mess. Attempting a sail by is nothing in comparison to all that. Consider an alternate scenario where an less senior officer hits the rocks, but the Captain then assesses the situation, sends out the distress signal, supervises an organized evacuation of the ship and is the last one to be lifted off the ship by helicopter, or even more dramatically, drowns in the bowels of the ship while successfully rescueing a beautiful little girl. That captain then would be hailed as a hero. That was not this man whether he did a sail by or not.

 

That is all I have time to discuss for now, but I hope that this will provide you with another perspective that you may be able to consider as valid and reasonable and not a justification.

 

Regards,

MorganMars

 

 

Bingo!, this has been my main point since the start.

 

 

 

 

AKK

[MDSue]

I confess that I haven't got a clue why people are not outraged by sail byes. This is a serious question and not intended to belittle your views.

 

When I board a cruise ship, it is with the belief that the operations of the ship are for the benefit and enjoyment of the passengers 24/7 and not the benefit and enjoyment of the crew, past and present. In my view, if there was no sail byes at all, there could never be a heightened risk of getting too close to shore.

 

What is the basis of your justification of sail byes?

 

Hello to all, I've refrained from commenting on this thread but have kept up with great interest since the very beginning and have appreciated everyone's insights and opinions.

 

I'd like to add mine about sail-by's since there seems to be strong opinions about whether they should or should not be allowed.

 

Many years ago, I did a Southern Caribbean cruise that went to the island of St. Lucia. I didn't know it at the time, but one of the highlights of the island is two very tall (and stikingly beautiful) mountain peaks called the Pitons. They seem to jut straight out of the sea. When we departed the island that evening, I sat on my balcony and saw the peaks in the distance and was awed by their sight. We were quite a few miles offshore, but they were still quite striking.

 

Two years later, we did the same cruise on the same ship. This time, we made sure to take a tour that took us to these beautiful peaks. Between the the peaks was a cove with a wonderful beach-Jalousie Beach. On departure that evening, the captain announced to the guests to make sure to be up on the deck that evening because we were doing a special "sail-by" the Pitons. They were even having a cocktail party to celebrate the event.

 

We were exhausted after a long day onshore so I took a nap after we departed, but I made sure to wake up in time for the sail-by. When I woke up and looked out the balcony, I could not believe how close to the first peak we were- like we could reach out and touch it (not literally, but very close). We proceeded to the cove area between the two peaks and our captain did a 360 degree turn right there between the two peaks. This "sail-by" was the absolute highlight of our trip and we talked about it for years to come. I never once thought the captain was being reckless or showboating. He was simply providing the guests a facinating view. I have no clue whether he had to have special permission to do the sail-by, but I can only assume he knew the water depths and never put the ship or passengers at risk.

 

I hate to see the actions of one careless captain take away the discretion of every other ship captain to make a decision to alter course in some instances to provide an exceptional experience to the guests.

 

I believe the major difference between our sail-by and the ill-fated Concordia is that it appears that only a few people knew about the Concordia captain's plans, so it wasn't a well-planned, well thought out diversion (obviously, with disasterous consequences that should have never occured). And really, where were all the other officers?- but that's a whole other issue.

 

So, when you ask what the justification of allowing sail-by's at all, I just wanted to share my personal experience.

 

Susan

Edited June 26, 2012 by MDSue

[Uniall]

Hello to all, I've refrained from commenting on this thread but have kept up with great interest since the very beginning and have appreciated everyone's insights and opinions.

 

I'd like to add mine about sail-by's since there seems to be strong opinions about whether they should or should not be allowed.

 

Many years ago, I did a Southern Caribbean cruise that went to the island of St. Lucia. I didn't know it at the time, but one of the highlights of the island is two very tall (and stikingly beautiful) mountain peaks called the Pitons. They seem to jut straight out of the sea. When we departed the island that evening, I sat on my balcony and saw the peaks in the distance and was awed by their sight. We were quite a few miles offshore, but they were still quite striking.

 

Two years later, we did the same cruise on the same ship. This time, we made sure to take a tour that took us to these beautiful peaks. Between the the peaks was a cove with a wonderful beach-Jalousie Beach. On departure that evening, the captain announced to the guests to make sure to be up on the deck that evening because we were doing a special "sail-by" the Pitons. They were even having a cocktail party to celebrate the event.

 

We were exhausted after a long day onshore so I took a nap after we departed, but I made sure to wake up in time for the sail-by. When I woke up and looked out the balcony, I could not believe how close to the first peak we were- like we could reach out and touch it (not literally, but very close). We proceeded to the cove area between the two peaks and our captain did a 360 degree turn right there between the two peaks. This "sail-by" was the absolute highlight of our trip and we talked about it for years to come. I never once thought the captain was being reckless or showboating. He was simply providing the guests a facinating view. I have no clue whether he had to have special permission to do the sail-by, but I can only assume he knew the water depths and never put the ship or passengers at risk.

 

I hate to see the actions of one careless captain take away the discretion of every other ship captain to make a decision to alter course in some instances to provide an exceptional experience to the guests.

 

I believe the major difference between our sail-by and the ill-fated Concordia is that it appears that only a few people knew about the Concordia captain's plans, so it wasn't a well-planned, well thought out diversion (obviously, with disasterous consequences that should have never occured). And really, where were all the other officers?- but that's a whole other issue.

 

So, when you ask what the justification of allowing sail-by's at all, I just wanted to share my personal experience.

 

Susan

 

Susan

 

Was it day or night when you did the sail by of th the mountain peaks?

 

The Concdordia's sail by was at night, not publicized for the passengers' interest and the record indicates it was done to salute Costga employees who lived on the island, which indicates to me that it was done for th3e benefit of Costa people and not tghe passengers

[sidari]

Susan .... Sounds like it was a not to miss event on your cruise.

 

Uni .... To date i do not recall having seen any photo of the ship passing Giglio on the 13th either from land or from the ship before Concordia had turned around! has anyone else?

[dmwnc1959]

This morning the floating crane positioned itself and lifted from the seabed that portion of the amid ship sliding dome that had falling off of its rails several weeks after the Costa Concordia capsized:

 

rising above the water

 

silhouetted against the ships funnel

 

swinging around to lower onto barge pontoon

 

lowered onto barge

Edited June 26, 2012 by dmwnc1959

[RuthlessBoss]

The best pics and explanation. Thank you.

 

I found my zoom feature, finally, that helps, but to us novices, we are not sure what is actually being removed.

[Tonka's Skipper]

Susan .... Sounds like it was a not to miss event on your cruise.

 

Uni .... To date i do not recall having seen any photo of the ship passing Giglio on the 13th either from land or from the ship before Concordia had turned around! has anyone else?

 

 

 

 

Sideri, The only video I saw of the Concordia at Giglio was from a previous trip and she was 1 or 1 1/2 miles off the beach. That was online soon after the sinking.

 

AKK

[Tonka's Skipper]

Excellent Photo close ups!....Thanks so much!:D

 

 

AKK

[DocF]

Very good photos, indeed. I appreciate them as they show the kind of activity that is currently taking place. As much as I would like to, I cannot spend the day watching the web cams.

 

Doc