Thinking of China-Need Help

[Turtles06]

I did put out some feelers to a TA I used for another river cruise as she specializes in river cruises. She recommended Viking and Uniworld and will be doing some research for us.

 

While price is certainly a concern, my biggest concern is whether DH will have anything available to eat and whether or not he'll be able to keep up with the walking. That's going to be a big problem.

 

Kellie, on the Emerald itself, there were almost always "non Chinese" food options available. Also, some folks during the day would place an order for dinner if they wanted something other than what was being served that night. The staff really went out of its way to help.

 

On land, the hotel breakfasts also had "non Chinese" food at the huge buffets. The bigger concern would be the lunches and dinners on land. Here, I think the Viking escort who is assigned to your group would be of help, but I would give Viking a call, and go up the chain to a customer service supervisor if you need to, and ask how they would handle this situation. I doubt it's a new one for them. I found all of the folks on the phone at Viking to be helfpul.

 

As for the walking.... We had someone in our group with a bad back. Sometimes it flared up on him. When necessary, Viking would get a porter with a wheelchair for him. This is how he did the long morning from one end of Tiananmen Square to the other end of the Forbidden Palace, probably the most sustained walking (for the rest of us) of the whole trip. Same at the airports. In fact, when we landed in one of the airports, this guy was ready to walk to baggage claim, but our Viking escort insisted on getting him a wheelchair and saving him the walk.

 

I won't sugarcoat it, though, the trip does involve a great deal of walking. There might be a few things your DH could not do (e.g., climb the ladders in the Shibaozhi pagoda).

 

The bottom line, though, is that the Viking escort who is assigned to each individual group for the entire tour will do absolutely whatever he or she can to help with individual needs.

 

(I hope that saying this doesn't make me a cheerleader.;))

[Turtles06]

We are thinking of China for 2013, and are seriously looking at Viking. We have narrowed it down to two options. One is the 17 day China Cultural Delights and the other is the 12 day Imperial Jewels. The difference seems to be that you spend more time on the Yangtze, below the dams, on the longer cruise. My question is, is this part of the Yangtze worth doing? Or would we be better off doing an extension in Beijing or Hong Knog (we're not big shopper however) and forgetting the lower Yangtze?

 

May I suggest that you pose your question over on the Viking China2 thread (Other Cruise Lines forum), where you will find folks who have done these specific trips? I know you'll find people over there who thought it was well worth doing Cultural Delights and having more time on the river, and I am sure they had a great trip. Speaking only for myself and not in any way denigrating what those folks experienced, I found that five nights on the river were just enough, and really appreciated the fact that we had flown into Beijing three days early and toured there on our own (with a private guide) before the Viking tour started. Beijing is an amazing city (I would love to go back), and even Viking's three days there leaves plenty of other wonderful things to see and do.

 

One post-trip factor for us in thinking that 11 days on the river would be too many: all of the meals on the Emerald are served at large round tables (for 8 or 10, I can't recall). And while I enjoyed all the people in our group, there were times on the river when my partner and I wished we could just have had a breakfast or dinner alone. No offense at all to our fellow travelers, but you know what I mean?

 

In the event this is helpful to you (or anyone else), here's the trip summary/review I posted last summer of our three pre-Viking days in Beijing:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=29264391&postcount=4680

[pjtraveler]

In China we opted for less time on the Yangtze because our interest was in history and culture, and we wanted more time in Beijing, Xian, Shanghai, Guilin, and Hong Kong. That's the main reason we chose Uniworld instead of Viking. If you prefer more time on the river, Viking has a very good product in China. The longer trip you can afford in time and expense is the better in China, in my opinion. You're going so far, why not see as much as you can?

 

One other thing, if you are considering including Tibet, be sure to study up on altitude sickness. If you're of a certain age, as many of us are, that can be a real concern!

 

Happy travel planning to all!:D

[4774Papa]

In China we opted for less time on the Yangtze because our interest was in history and culture, and we wanted more time in Beijing, Xian, Shanghai, Guilin, and Hong Kong. That's the main reason we chose Uniworld instead of Viking. If you prefer more time on the river, Viking has a very good product in China. The longer trip you can afford in time and expense is the better in China, in my opinion. You're going so far, why not see as much as you can?

 

One other thing, if you are considering including Tibet, be sure to study up on altitude sickness. If you're of a certain age, as many of us are, that can be a real concern!

 

Happy travel planning to all!:D

We chose Vantage for much of the same reason. Vantage only has four days on the river.

[tigtraveling]

In China we opted for less time on the Yangtze because our interest was in history and culture, and we wanted more time in Beijing, Xian, Shanghai, Guilin, and Hong Kong. That's the main reason we chose Uniworld instead of Viking. If you prefer more time on the river, Viking has a very good product in China. The longer trip you can afford in time and expense is the better in China, in my opinion. You're going so far, why not see as much as you can?

 

One other thing, if you are considering including Tibet, be sure to study up on altitude sickness. If you're of a certain age, as many of us are, that can be a real concern!

 

Happy travel planning to all!:D

 

I agree with pjtraveler - we really wanted to see as much of China as possible, so we took a shorter cruise (4 nights) and then the land portion made up the rest of the 14-day trip.

 

And Kellie Poodle - you had asked about food issues: My Mom is allergic to shellfish and I can't eat tomatoes or anything with a tomato containing sauce, two very one-food issues compared to your DH, but we were able to be accommodated. It was easier (for us) on land with our private tour guides than it was on the boat as we weren't always certain of the ingredients of the buffet style food, but if we had questions the staff was more than willing to help answer them. Also, Turtles06 mentioned "non Chinese" food options on their boat and we had those too - just not always very many. The hotel breakfasts, however, were full of "non Chinese" food options as well as many typical Chinese options.

 

In that same post, Turtles06 mentioned the ladders at Shibaozhi and I agree that would not be easy (or maybe even not possible) with a bad back or problems walking. Several other sites involved a great deal of stair climbing or walking to get through also, but may have options for accommodating you. We saw a few wheelchairs, but many places are NOT wheelchair accessible, at least not that we saw.

[cbb]

Anyone done the Globus/Avalon tour/cruise in China? We have China on our bucket list but haven't decided whether to do just a China trip or to expand it into Vietnam and Cambodia.

[Kellie Poodle]

Kellie, on the Emerald itself, there were almost always "non Chinese" food options available. Also, some folks during the day would place an order for dinner if they wanted something other than what was being served that night. The staff really went out of its way to help.

 

On land, the hotel breakfasts also had "non Chinese" food at the huge buffets. The bigger concern would be the lunches and dinners on land. Here, I think the Viking escort who is assigned to your group would be of help, but I would give Viking a call, and go up the chain to a customer service supervisor if you need to, and ask how they would handle this situation. I doubt it's a new one for them. I found all of the folks on the phone at Viking to be helfpul.

 

As for the walking.... We had someone in our group with a bad back. Sometimes it flared up on him. When necessary, Viking would get a porter with a wheelchair for him. This is how he did the long morning from one end of Tiananmen Square to the other end of the Forbidden Palace, probably the most sustained walking (for the rest of us) of the whole trip. Same at the airports. In fact, when we landed in one of the airports, this guy was ready to walk to baggage claim, but our Viking escort insisted on getting him a wheelchair and saving him the walk.

 

I won't sugarcoat it, though, the trip does involve a great deal of walking. There might be a few things your DH could not do (e.g., climb the ladders in the Shibaozhi pagoda).

 

The bottom line, though, is that the Viking escort who is assigned to each individual group for the entire tour will do absolutely whatever he or she can to help with individual needs.

 

(I hope that saying this doesn't make me a cheerleader.;))

 

Thanks.

 

My TA, who does a great deal of business with Viking, suggested that we rent a wheel chair in Beijing and hire a person to push it. She said it would have to be done independently as The cruise lines would not provide this service. That is good to know as I think the most walking will be while staying there.

 

Western food might not be any better as we need low carbohydrate food choices. Bread, potatoes, pasta, etc. are not good. If we could find chicken that isn't sauced up and fresh or steamed vegetables, that would work.

 

I will have to do more research.

[ras619]

Am particularly interested if anyone has info on why the listed prices for the Uniworld China tours are significantly cheaper than the similar Viking tours with comparable accommodations.

 

The Viking ship seems to be newer & does not reflect the partnering aspect of that used by Uniworld. Anyone have thoughts on how well the partnering of ships works (seems nice when everyone is doing the same trip even if different assigned groups)?

[Kellie Poodle]

Am particularly interested if anyone has info on why the listed prices for the Uniworld China tours are significantly cheaper than the similar Viking tours with comparable accommodations.

 

The Viking ship seems to be newer & does not reflect the partnering aspect of that used by Uniworld. Anyone have thoughts on how well the partnering of ships works (seems nice when everyone is doing the same trip even if different assigned groups)?

 

I may be wrong, but I think Viking doubles the individual price so they can say they are giving you a "two for one" deal. If you divide the Viking price in half, it is much nearer the other companies.

[at_nyc]

We are thinking of China for 2013, and are seriously looking at Viking. We have narrowed it down to two options. One is the 17 day China Cultural Delights and the other is the 12 day Imperial Jewels. The difference seems to be that you spend more time on the Yangtze, below the dams, on the longer cruise. My question is, is this part of the Yangtze worth doing? Or would we be better off doing an extension in Beijing or Hong Knog (we're not big shopper however) and forgetting the lower Yangtze?

First and foremost, keep in mind the nature of a trip to China. One poster puts it in the right prospective:

 

My husband, my parents, and I just returned from a 14 day trip to China that included a cruise on the Yangtze River on the Century Diamond cruise ship -

So, it's not a CRUISE. It's a land trip which includes a short cruise!

 

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the cruise on the Yangtze at all. But if I were to do the cruise, I'd keep the lower part (below the dam) short.

 

Friend of mine did a trip in China using a TA agency based in China (they just looked it up on the web). The TA arranged all their itineries from point to point. It also included a cruise of the Yangtze, which they fount forgetable.

[Turtles06]

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the cruise on the Yangtze at all.

 

That's of course up to you, but you'd really be missing out. Not just the beautiful experience of sailing thru the Three Gorges and the Lesser Gorges, but of experiencing a part of Chinese life and culture in small towns along the river, a very, very different experience than being in Beijing or Shanghai.

 

And just being on the Yangtze itself, one of the world's great rivers... Watching the barges, the ships, the fishing... Going through the locks of the Three Gorges Dam...

 

It was a great experience.

 

Friend of mine did a trip in China using a TA agency based in China (they just looked it up on the web). The TA arranged all their itineries from point to point. It also included a cruise of the Yangtze, which they fount forgetable.

 

And perhaps they got what they paid for.

[at_nyc]

That's of course up to you, but you'd really be missing out. Not just the beautiful experience of sailing thru the Three Gorges and the Lesser Gorges, but of experiencing a part of Chinese life and culture in small towns along the river, a very, very different experience than being in Beijing or Shanghai.

 

And just being on the Yangtze itself, one of the world's great rivers... Watching the barges, the ships, the fishing... Going through the locks of the Three Gorges Dam...

.

That's still a land tour with a short cruise included

 

And perhaps they got what they paid for

If that's how you justify paying for something that isn't, be my guest. You pay for a "cruise" and got schlep about in different hotels.

 

Further more, if you think you're seeing how Chinese in small villages live from a half day stop out of a cruise ship, you're dillusional. My friends got to see the part of China few forigners even heard of. That's what they "got", for no more than any others pay.

[Turtles06]

That's still a land tour with a short cruise included

 

 

If that's how you justify paying for something that isn't, be my guest. You pay for a "cruise" and got schlep about in different hotels.

 

Further more, if you think you're seeing how Chinese in small villages live from a half day stop out of a cruise ship, you're dillusional. My friends got to see the part of China few forigners even heard of. That's what they "got", for no more than any others pay.

 

Apart from putting words in my mouth, as best I can tell you haven't been to China let alone on the trip I took, so if you want to keep prattling on about things you know nothing about, suit yourself.

[at_nyc]

Apart from putting words in my mouth, as best I can tell you haven't been to China let alone on the trip I took, so if you want to keep prattling on about things you know nothing about, suit yourself.

So that's how far off the mark your "best" is!

 

Can only imagine the "average" is. What's the worst?

[pacmom]

We are on Viking's Cultural Delights in Oct of this year. This includes ELEVEN nites on the river, 4 nites in Beijing at a Westin, 2 nites in X'ian at a Crown Plaza and 2 nites in Shanghi at a Westin. These are not shabby hotels. We knew upfront that this is a cruise/tour and are really looking forward to it. This will be our 16th river cruise. Pat

[tigtraveling]

First and foremost, keep in mind the nature of a trip to China. One poster puts it in the right prospective:

 

 

So, it's not a CRUISE. It's a land trip which includes a short cruise!

 

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the cruise on the Yangtze at all. But if I were to do the cruise, I'd keep the lower part (below the dam) short.

 

Friend of mine did a trip in China using a TA agency based in China (they just looked it up on the web). The TA arranged all their itineries from point to point. It also included a cruise of the Yangtze, which they fount forgetable.

 

Just to be sure: We paid for a land tour with a short cruise in the middle - so we chose the length of the cruise and the time spent on land. However, I can understand wanting to choose more days on the river and more of a cruise - seeing more sights without hauling around my luggage is a big allure for cruising to me.

 

Also, the BEST scenery we saw while on the trip was on the cruise portion and we enjoyed the cruise as a whole; our group just didn't want a longer cruise.

[Kellie Poodle]

We are on Viking's Cultural Delights in Oct of this year. This includes ELEVEN nites on the river, 4 nites in Beijing at a Westin, 2 nites in X'ian at a Crown Plaza and 2 nites in Shanghi at a Westin. These are not shabby hotels. We knew upfront that this is a cruise/tour and are really looking forward to it. This will be our 16th river cruise. Pat

 

 

Thanks for bringing the thread back from the hijacking. :D

[ras619]

Kellie - you raised a concern in previous posts about food & meals. Although I am not committed yet on any particular line for the China trip we envision I did run across this information at http://www.uniworld.com/Index/FAQ/China

 

The following is the question & answer:

 

Q: Should I be concerned about the food and water in China?

A: Most of the meals are Chinese food. Special meals are served during some of the tours, such as a Peking Duck dinner, a dinner show in Xian, a dumpling lunch in Xian, and hotel dinners.

 

I pass this along merely for information as this same issue concerns me. I have looked as close as I can at their posted day-by-day plans and I notice that their itinerary appears very structured for all day, every day and most of the meals are pre-planned including meals in homes and those noted in the answer above. If we finally settle on Uniworld I am planning on a well documented call to them for more very specific information.

[travelfirst]

Thanks.

 

My TA, who does a great deal of business with Viking, suggested that we rent a wheel chair in Beijing and hire a person to push it. She said it would have to be done independently as The cruise lines would not provide this service. That is good to know as I think the most walking will be while staying there.

 

Western food might not be any better as we need low carbohydrate food choices. Bread, potatoes, pasta, etc. are not good. If we could find chicken that isn't sauced up and fresh or steamed vegetables, that would work.

 

I will have to do more research.

 

Kellie, read the "faqs" on the Viking River Cruise site. It says you have to let them know a month ahead of the cruise if you need a special diet.

I went on the Imperial Jewels of China and I don't eat Chinese food but I managed fine. Just get in touch with Viking and ask them.

[id4elizabeth]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts about the cruise vs the land tour portion, and upper Yangtze vs lower Yangtze.

 

Kellie Poodle, sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread - just thought it was a relevant question to yours in deciding what kind of China trip to take. We're just looking to maximize the experience, as we will only do this trip once!

 

My experience with Viking (not in China I admit) was that they were very accomodating to folks with dietary restrictions. But I would think most of the river cruise lines are. Just have to let them know ahead so they can provision accordingly.

 

Any more thoughts from those who have been to China would be welcome, and again thanks to everyone.

[at_nyc]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts about the cruise vs the land tour portion, and upper Yangtze vs lower Yangtze.

 

Any more thoughts from those who have been to China would be welcome, and again thanks to everyone.

You have to first ask yourself what you want:

 

- Do you want to see China? With cruise on the Yangtze river being a part of that?

- Or do you want a cruise? And see bits and peice of China the cruise happen to be?

 

If it's the latter, ask no more. Just pick the longest cruise you can find.

 

But if it's the former, then you should keep the cruise portion short. Because simply, the Yangtze maybe a long river, it's not that significant part of China!

 

The scenery in the upper stretch is the best part, in the mountains. Shortly below the dam, you enter the flood plain area. Landscape is pretty boring (ok, good for a day, at most) and the cities are mostly industrial and not that interesting. Most cruise cover the mountain strech of the river anyway. It's due to practical consideration, since land travel is difficult in such a rugged mountaineous region, once you enter the river, you have to ride it till you reach the plains. Cruise going beyong that is what I consider boring.

 

That said, some people prefer not having to move from hotel to hotel, more important than what one sees. In that case, staying on the cruise all the way down river will be preferred. Basically, you've got a floating hotel (even if the hotel isn't where you care to see...)

 

So decide what you want this to be first, then decide how to do it.

[Rxgrad98]

Hi everyone. Been following this thread and finally decided to post. We did Uniworld's Classic China tour last October. Due to time constraints, we had to choose between doing the Yangtze portion or doing Hong Kong. We chose to do Hong Kong. Overall, it was a great trip and a fantastic learning experience.

 

To answer some of Kellie Poodle's questions from what we experienced: Uniworld does use Victoria Cruise Line, so you won't be on Uniworld owned ships; I believe most western river cruise companies use Victoria. I do believe that Viking owns their boats, so they may have more control over their product.

 

The land portion was pretty much nonstop all day long. Our first day, we left the hotel at 9am and did not return until 10:30pm that night. Our tour director did rearrange the itinerary, taking us to the Kung Fu show that night, instead of the 2nd night as stated in the brochure. All other days, we would return to the hotel in the late afternoon/early evening for about 30 minutes to an hour to freshen up before dinner. Our first day in Shanghai, we did get pretty much the entire afternoon and evening free. That was our only down time during the trip. On our shared transfer to the airport, we did talk to a couple who had done the Yangtze and they said it was very enjoyable and a nice change of pace compared to the land portion.

 

There is A LOT of walking, and unfortunately, not all the places will be mobility-impaired friendly (especially the Great Wall). We had an elderly couple in our group who sometimes had problems keeping up with the group, and our tour director always made sure someone was with them. One lady in our group did try to get a wheelchair, but when she found out they were not free and had to be paid for, she quickly hopped out; but they are available and your tour director should be able to arrange it.

 

The meals were actually a surprise for us. Although we didn't find them much different from what we're used to here in the US (similar to what you'd find at PF Changs), they were still quite tasty and I'm not aware of anyone having any GI issues on the trip. We did not have any diabetics in our group to my knowledge, but we did have some vegetarians and their needs were met. Rice is served with each meal, but you don't have to eat it. We were actually told that Chinese eat rice at the end of the meal as a "filler." If pasta raises your husband's blood sugar, one meal you might need to watch out for is the dumpling meal; the wonton wrappers may affect his blood sugar. As far as salty foods, I only recall a few that seemed to be really salty, but I tend to like well seasoned food and my tastes may not be as sensitive as others, so I may not have been able to tell if they were on the salty side.

 

All of the meals were planned and included. Most were in local restaurants. In Xi'an we went to the Tang Dynasty Dinner Show and one night in Shanghai we ate at the hotel. One of the reasons we chose Uniworld is that all of the meals were included. We weren't sure how easy it would be to eat out on your own in China, so we opted to go with a tour that included everything.

 

We went at the end of October and the weather was great. In Beijing and Xi'an highs were in the mid 60's. The mornings were cool and crisp but it warmed up quickly. Shanghai was about 3-4 degrees warmer and Hong Kong was still in the 80's. It only rained one day on our tour, and that was actually the arrival day. It was a blessing that it rained; it cleared out all the air pollution and we had two crystal clear days. Unfortunately, after that, the smog settled back in and visibility was very poor. So be aware of that if you have asthma or severe allergies.

 

Sorry that I can't answer your questions about the ship that Uniworld uses. I hope that this helps you some. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Hope you get the chance to go. It's a fascinating country.

 

Tim

[Kellie Poodle]

Thanks, Tim. Your report was very informative. I appreciate the time and effort it took you to respond.

 

I have to put China on hold for a few weeks as we sail for Hawaii Friday.

[HokiePoq]

Many thanks to the OP and everyone who discussed this topic. This is my first visit to this board and I came to ask the very same question. Just had knee surgery and I'm thinking I'd better wait to see if I can get back to walking long distances before I book this cruise/land tour.

My friend who went said the cruise part was not to be missed because of the scenery but I also see the point of not extending the cruise into the less scenic areas.

 

Has anyone done the Viking Top of the World Tour that includes Tibet?

From what I'm reading, each of their tours contains the basic sights we want to see and the scenic gorge part of the cruise. Now to choose from the rest while my knee gets better.

 

On to the other board I didn't know about...thanks again to all of you who posted in this thread.

[Peregrina651]

I do believe that Viking owns their boats, so they may have more control over their product.

 

 

Actually, the ships used by Viking are owned and operated by a Chinese company called Century. Foreign companies are not permitted to own or operate their own ships and hence Viking leases the Emerald for its cruises. The staff on the ship is a combination of Viking employees (Hotel Manager(?), Chef, Maitre D', Program Director) and Century employees (Captain and crew, chambermaids, restaurant and bar staff, etc.)

 

We did Cultural Delights with Viking in 2010 and I invite you all to read my in-depth report on Travelpod.