Another Carnival lawsuit

[divingmedic]

Yeah, it was an inevitable result. (I am not a doctor. I maybe know enough to be a really really bad PA lol)

We will have to chat about this in 50 days won't we. :D

[RuthlessBoss]

I know that Carnival (as well as the other cruise lines requires their nursing staff to be ACLS and ER or ICU trained. It sounds like they sent some staff members to the room instead of the medical staff.

I have seen the medical staff respond to emergency calls on Glory and also Spirit I believe, they were professional and appropriate.

I wonder why they sent laymen instead of staff to the emergency call???

Another thing that bothers me a LOT, why didn't someone, family, staff, freaking next door neighbors with common sense hold PRESSURE on this wound. I know that arteries will bleed someone out quickly, just as I know pressure on a wound can buy time, and a tournequet on the arm might have been appropriate.

It sounded like a big clusterfuss and no one really did the right thing.

Very, very sad for the passenger that died and her family.

Carole

Some of these thoughts are mine too. There's so much missing in the call for help. Likely those that showed up first did not expect what they found!! I wonder why no one applied pressure to the arm too. We don't know where on the ship it occurred, causing possible delays. They had to assess the situation, get equipment to the site. Likely the stretcher size had never been tested inside the ship, after all it was intended for outside use. That cabin wasn't set up to be an emergency room with everything at their fingertips. They will be compensated well by Carnival, even if it wasn't all their fault. If she had been at home, the end result likely would have been the same after waiting for medics and an ambulance.

[spleenstomper]

We will have to chat about this in 50 days won't we. :D

 

I'm sure DH will have an interesting perspective, though I'm not sure he is going to want to "talk shop" ... :)

[divingmedic]

I'm sure DH will have an interesting perspective, though I'm not sure he is going to want to "talk shop" ... :)

LOL me either. I just dread DW finding another teacher on board. She sleeps, eats and breathes teaching.:D

[mamaskittles]

Some of these thoughts are mine too. There's so much missing in the call for help. Likely those that showed up first did not expect what they found!! I wonder why no one applied pressure to the arm too. We don't know where on the ship it occurred, causing possible delays. They had to assess the situation, get equipment to the site. Likely the stretcher size had never been tested inside the ship, after all it was intended for outside use. That cabin wasn't set up to be an emergency room with everything at their fingertips. They will be compensated well by Carnival, even if it wasn't all their fault. If she had been at home, the end result likely would have been the same after waiting for medics and an ambulance.

I don't think that end result would have been the same at home unless she was alone in an isolated part of the US. Her Mom? ( someone ) had a towel wrapped around the arm and the nurse removed it to put on guaze. I also believe knowing human nature that when this occured the guests in question were screaming on the top of their lungs, and all the neighbors heard. I'm sure they called for help also, it's just what people do in those situations.

The drinking is on her, the blunt is on her. The death I think is on Carnival.

I sure hope they figure out how to handle emergencies over at CCL. Imagine if it were a child or elderly person with a severe laceration, no alcohol. Who do you blame then?

[kimmimom]

the medical response was not good, the family has to take some responsibility. Why would Carnival be the ones to make sure she was safe in her cabin? She was on the ship with family members; ultimately it is their responsibility to make sure she is safe. If I was traveling with friend/family who was not feeling well (drinking or whatever cause), I would certainly walk them back to their cabin to make sure they are okay. As for drinking the alcohol, she chose to drink. As for the pot, she chose to smoke that too. It was an unfortunate accident that happened. You would have a hard time to recreate that (the glass breaking and you falling and landing on it in such a way to cut an artery).

 

Hopefully Carnival has learned some lessons from this and response to emergencies.

[spleenstomper]

Reference to mamaskitties post: But suppose something happens and you have appendicitis or pancreatitis while on a cruise ship. You are, honestly, SOL. You need to be stabilized as much as possible and then airlifted to somewhere else for surgery.

 

This woman ultimately needed surgery, as the article says she nearly completely severed an artery.

 

If you need some type of emergency surgery while at sea, you are at the mercy of plenty of factors.

 

The article does say the nurse was there ten minutes after the first crew arrived. She packed the wound. CCL was working on her. Obviously we don't have all the details about whether there was a gurney, canoe (basket), etc.

 

I'm not convinced it falls under negligence-- more like: "she had a life threatening traumatic injury while at sea" that the ship was unable to cope with because of the scope of the injury...

 

I could change my mind if I had more information....

[divingmedic]

the medical response was not good, the family has to take some responsibility. Why would Carnival be the ones to make sure she was safe in her cabin? She was on the ship with family members; ultimately it is their responsibility to make sure she is safe. If I was traveling with friend/family who was not feeling well (drinking or whatever cause), I would certainly walk them back to their cabin to make sure they are okay. As for drinking the alcohol, she chose to drink. As for the pot, she chose to smoke that too. It was an unfortunate accident that happened. You would have a hard time to recreate that (the glass breaking and you falling and landing on it in such a way to cut an artery).

 

Hopefully Carnival has learned some lessons from this and response to emergencies.

No mention of the THC level in the article. She could have smoked that joint 2 days before getting on the ship and it would still show up in her system.

[Green Boy]

This happened over a year ago, I can't believe this is the first time

it's been talked about.... I figured others on the ship would have come on CC and talked about it... :confused:

[crusinfamof4]

Glad I am not a drinker! Seems like they should have maybe called the doctor to her cabin or something to at least stabilize her. I feel so sorry for her minor children. Just a sad story. I do know when this goes to court, her alcohol consumption/marajuana in the blood will come into play.

[divingmedic]

This happened over a year ago, I can't believe this is the first time

it's been talked about.... I figured others on the ship would have come on CC and talked about it... :confused:

Maybe it was. I am not going to search for it. The lawsuit was just filed and an article was written about the suit.

[Tapi]

...if Carnival did render the proper aid in a timely manner they can still be held liable.

I only know from my cousin's husband who sued a company years ago that involved alcohol (them) and liability (trucking company).

 

Thanks for the reply! :)

[gardeningmama]

I totally agree. Carnival should have handled it better but if she is an adult she could have refused the drinks. If Carnival had refused to serve her that would have cause another issue. We all have to be responsible for our own actions.

[mamaskittles]

Reference to mamaskitties post: But suppose something happens and you have appendicitis or pancreatitis while on a cruise ship. You are, honestly, SOL. You need to be stabilized as much as possible and then airlifted to somewhere else for surgery.

 

This woman ultimately needed surgery, as the article says she nearly completely severed an artery.

 

If you need some type of emergency surgery while at sea, you are at the mercy of plenty of factors.

 

The article does say the nurse was there ten minutes after the first crew arrived. She packed the wound. CCL was working on her. Obviously we don't have all the details about whether there was a gurney, canoe (basket), etc.

 

I'm not convinced it falls under negligence-- more like: "she had a life threatening traumatic injury while at sea" that the ship was unable to cope with because of the scope of the injury...

 

I could change my mind if I had more information....

You know I may be correct or you it's a toss-up in my book. However that being said, I do believe appendicitis has reared it's ugly head on a cruise ship in the past. How it may have been dealt with I don't know. I just think even re-reading the article and taking the reports of the timeline and crews response as facts (which of course they may not be at all), Carnival did not handle this emergent situation properly. I am not worried, however, I would like to know if since this incident ( and don't forget the Concordia ) the crew was given more instruction on emergency interventions in case of trauma.

[spleenstomper]

I do remember a crew member was recently air lifted off a ship because of appendicitis. Each case is different, though, in how long a person has before it bursts....

 

But, yeah, I agree. It feels like crews on ships aren't very well trained for different levels of emergency.

 

I did read about the Azmara fire, and it sounds like that crew was very well trained, so kudos to them.

 

What do they contract for: work 4 months on and two months off? I can't remember. I imagine emergency training is difficult when your crew moves in and out like that.

 

Honestly, in thinking about these kinds of situations, I'm glad I bring my doctor with me on the cruise... I admit it is a perk. He comes in handy sometimes... :D

[spleenstomper]

I am also wondering if the woman had factors that contributed to the transfer time: was she morbidly obese? Unfortunately for all, heavier people can be harder to move around in a crisis situation, especially if the ship doesn't have the new plus size medical equipment.

 

ETA: she looks of average size from the photo on her obituary.

 

I really feel for her family... Imagine how traumatic this was for them to witness, for whatever reason As to why it happened. She wasn't buried for 11 days after she died. How exhausting for her family!

[CRUISE4JANE]

You know I may be correct or you it's a toss-up in my book. However that being said, I do believe appendicitis has reared it's ugly head on a cruise ship in the past. How it may have been dealt with I don't know. I just think even re-reading the article and taking the reports of the timeline and crews response as facts (which of course they may not be at all), Carnival did not handle this emergent situation properly. I am not worried, however, I would like to know if since this incident ( and don't forget the Concordia ) the crew was given more instruction on emergency interventions in case of trauma.

 

On my 1st cruise, a little boy had an appendicitis, and was airlifted off the ship. It happened fast. It was on our 1st night on the ship and later on the cruise, we did find out that the little boy was doing fine. :)

[mamaskittles]

I am also wondering if the woman had factors that contributed to the transfer time: was she morbidly obese? Unfortunately for all, heavier people can be harder to move around in a crisis situation, especially if the ship doesn't have the new plus size medical equipment.

 

I really feel for her family... Imagine how traumatic this was for them to witness, for whatever reason As to why it happened.

Ya know, mamaskittles is a little chubby :p actually mamaskittles is plenty chubby. These things do flit through my mind. How would they get to me to render aid if I collapsed in the showerand smashed my fool head open. But one can't take more than a nanosecond thinking like that or you'll never leave your house and just think how big you could get hiding on your barcolounger.:eek:

[spleenstomper]

Ya know, mamaskittles is a little chubby :p actually mamaskittles is plenty chubby. These things do flit through my mind. How would they get to me to render aid if I collapsed in the showerand smashed my fool head open. But one can't take more than a nanosecond thinking like that or you'll never leave your house and just think how big you could get hiding on your barcolounger.:eek:

 

 

My cousin and I were both Much larger than we are now back on September 11, 2001 (I was outgrowing a size 24) and I remember sitting on the phone with her watching all of that and thinking-- how in the heck would anyone be able to help me. We talked about how we wouldn't have been able to get down that many stairs, no one could carry us and we certainly couldn't run.

 

I'm half that size now. My goal is simply to be smaller next year than I am this year. I'm not ideal size, but I could save myself if I had to. I recently did major testing for celiac and food allergies, as I do think I a dealing with medical issues too.... But for the bulk of the weight.... I literally worked my butt off. (Test results won't be back for two weeks)

 

So, things like size and crisis have been on my mind before...

 

ETA: I accidentally hijacked the post I think... :0

[Puddleshuttle]

No problem with the hijack ;) Congratulations on the weight loss! :D

[LHP]

Has anyone investigated if this was a attack by the boyfriend that he tried to cover up as an accident?

 

The reason I ask is ... why would anyone need to wait for a nurse to stop the bleeding?

 

Why didn't he?

[kayhold]

Reference to mamaskitties post: But suppose something happens and you have appendicitis or pancreatitis while on a cruise ship. You are, honestly, SOL. You need to be stabilized as much as possible and then airlifted to somewhere else for surgery.

 

This woman ultimately needed surgery, as the article says she nearly completely severed an artery.

 

If you need some type of emergency surgery while at sea, you are at the mercy of plenty of factors.

 

The article does say the nurse was there ten minutes after the first crew arrived. She packed the wound. CCL was working on her. Obviously we don't have all the details about whether there was a gurney, canoe (basket), etc.

 

I'm not convinced it falls under negligence-- more like: "she had a life threatening traumatic injury while at sea" that the ship was unable to cope with because of the scope of the injury...

 

I could change my mind if I had more information....

 

 

The difference is nothing can be done for appendicitis on a cruise ship.

The nurse had an ace bandage. Therefore, she could have used it to tie the arm instead of wrapping it.

The first day of First Aid in 8th grade health, we learned how to tie a tourniquet. How did it not occur to the nurse to do one?

 

She had the materials to make one, she just didn't.

[kayhold]

Has anyone investigated if this was a attack by the boyfriend that he tried to cover up as an accident?

 

The reason I ask is ... why would anyone need to wait for a nurse to stop the bleeding?

 

Why didn't he?

 

Because when your loved one is hurt, almost anyone not in the medical field will panic. Even then, some will panic when its a loved one - I panicked when my young son was choking, but my husband didn't and took care of it.

 

I'm also seriously hesitant to think she was murdered. There would have been other markings, of some kind of evidence. I would find it hard to believe that the boyfriend sliced her arm with a broken glass and there wasn't any sign of a struggle, and I also think its grossly unfair you're suggesting he murdered her simply because he may not be trained in first aid or panicked.

[Little Elm]

Can someone with some legal expertise chime in? Part of me says she's at fault but another part of me says that Carnival is at fault and that she might still be alive had she received proper care.

 

One thing that always bothers me about lawsuits is that they try to paint the victim more innocent than they truly are, and as a person who could do no wrong (on this one, they say that the victim wasn't a heavy drinker), yet, when the toxicology test came back, they found this: "A toxicology report obtained by The Daily News on Wednesday listed her blood-alcohol level at .155 percent. Holcomb’s blood also tested positive for marijuana, the report states".

 

It truly kills the credibility of the plaintiff...:(

I have a serious problem with them saying Carnival is responsible for her being drunk. Sounds like the Pitt Boss took drinks away and the family complained and got them back. Also, she tested positive for marijuana. They don't sell that on board.

 

What I do find fault with Carnival, if it's true, is if the first responders had no medical training.

[cfosceola]

Too many variables in this situation, but the main one being the alcohol. Too much alcohol will not let your blood clot, period. If she had .155 or whatever, it was like water coming out of a faucet, nothing could have been done other than holding pressure or putting on a tourniquet, which could have been a belt, which I am sure there was one available . You cant blame the cruise line for her death. Go to a level 1 trauma center and see how many people die, often for less injury's than her. How do I know? I worked in a level 1 trauma center in sugery in Orlando Florida. Too many people are on the bandwagon to blame someone else for for there loved ones death, when 99% of the time, its there own fault. I drink, I know when I have had enough, no-one is gonna make be drink more than I should.