High season, open jaw, ball park??

[sweetpea222]

Hi all. We're planning a wonderful trip next July, flying from Vancouver, BC to Venice for a 12 night Med cruise, and then taking the train to Paris for two weeks and flying back from there. I have absolutely NO IDEA what the airfare for this trip, during high season, might come to. I know it's probably too far in advance and obviously prices fluctuate, but any ball park figures for this kind of flight? There will be 4 of us, two adults and two 12-year-olds.

 

Many thanks, as always...

[Gardyloo]

Hi all. We're planning a wonderful trip next July, flying from Vancouver, BC to Venice for a 12 night Med cruise, and then taking the train to Paris for two weeks and flying back from there. I have absolutely NO IDEA what the airfare for this trip, during high season, might come to. I know it's probably too far in advance and obviously prices fluctuate, but any ball park figures for this kind of flight? There will be 4 of us, two adults and two 12-year-olds.

 

Many thanks, as always...

I'd budget around $1200 pp and be pleased if it's less than that (assuming economy class.) Check prices out of Seattle as well, as sometimes the savings can offset the additional time/cost needed to get to SEA.

[sweetpea222]

Thanks, that's about what I figured. I wonder, when do people usually book tickets? I'd read 12 weeks in advance, but I'm such a planner that it seems awfully late to me. Basically, if it hits our comfort level, book it?

 

Also, just a question about transfers. If our tickets take us via London or another European city, how much time should we allow between flights? I've only ever flown to Athens before and we flew direct from Toronto that trip. I am a stress case if I think the connection is too tight, but also I don't want to draw the flight out too long with youngish children. :confused:

[FlyerTalker]

Thanks, that's about what I figured. I wonder, when do people usually book tickets? I'd read 12 weeks in advance, but I'm such a planner that it seems awfully late to me. Basically, if it hits our comfort level, book it?

Where was the "I read..."?? It is an urban myth. Think about it...if that was THE time to buy, would anyone do it at any other interval? And wouldn't that destroy any pricing mechanism at the airline?

 

Here's the best advice I can give. Have a low-ball target, a comfortable-with target and a better get it now price. Keep your eyes open for the low-ball and measure how it is doing vs the comfortable. July is a prime time for TATL flights, and VCE is a destination with limited supply and high demand around "cruise days". I would be in regular research mode starting 7-8 months out and frequent search in the 5-6 range. If I see anything close to the low-ball, grab it. If it is hanging in the comfortable range, look at your risk tolerance level. If you are comfortable and you see it inching up, grab it before you get stuck. Finally, if it has passed comfortable, just bite the bullet and get the tickets.

 

In other words, there is no "sweet spot'. Only regular research and searches can help you out, not a time-frame. Also..in addition to looking at SEA, don't limit yourself to short routings. Non-stops TATL in/out of VCE are high demand, so you may do better by flying into Europe and connecting to VCE.

 

Also, just a question about transfers. If our tickets take us via London or another European city, how much time should we allow between flights? I've only ever flown to Athens before and we flew direct from Toronto that trip. I am a stress case if I think the connection is too tight, but also I don't want to draw the flight out too long with youngish children. :confused:

I would want at least 2 hours for my connects to be comfortable.

 

Buy the kids some books. Give them something productive to do. If they can't handle a transfer, how are they going to handle the cruise? By age 12, they should have some discipline. And if not, this might be a good time to instill that. Try some histories that focus on where they will be visiting.

[sweetpea222]

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate your taking the time. The kids will be fine. The longest they've flown is 6 hrs to Hawaii, and they were easily amused with books, magazines and Nintendo. I'm sure it will be the same for Europe, although the total duration of the trip is much longer. I'm also sure the excitement will carry them there and the exhaustion will carry them home. :)

[The Pilot]

The longest they've flown is 6 hrs to Hawaii, and they were easily amused with books, magazines and Nintendo.

 

Nintendo was like 12 years ago! It's called an iPad, Kindle, Google iDevice (making that one up! lol)!

 

Anyway to answer your question to the fullest:

 

The Airline Industry is unlike any-other industry because they are selling a perishable item. When that date expires, they won't be able to sell that seat ever again. There is truly hundreds(too many to list here) of factors that go into the final airfare you see. Honestly, the most obvious one is Jet Fuel. The higher the cost, the higher the airfare. But competition plays a bigger role. The more competition at a particular airport, the LOWER the airfare.

[Petoonya]

Hi Sweetpea.

I couldn't stand the anxiety of waiting any longer and that's what it came down to.

Also doing an open jaw next April-May.

Portland-Rome, and Venice-Portland. $1259. Have done this very same open jaw a few times in the last several years, and this is the most I've ever paid. With the advice of a lot of folks here, I "ka-chinged" on it. It very likely may drop but my risk tolerance is too low.

 

The other thing...Delta almost always runs a credit card promotion with 30K miles. I got one each for hubby and I and it helps nicely with an extra trip to Hawaii. Nice connections for you out of Seattle on Delta. United and American run a similar deal.

Best wishes to you.

[sweetpea222]

My kids still play with their Nintendo DS's but of course would love to upgrade to an ipad or similar, but Mom gets first dibs when we get one of those! :p

 

We would be flying out of Kelowna, so might check into flights to Seattle with airmiles. Hopefully I'll have enough by then to cover all 4 of us. Those Delta CC's sound tempting, though. :D

 

Do you experts always book your own airfare, or do you go through a TA? The last two trips we've taken I've done all the booking myself, but this one is the most complicated and expensive, so I am considering having an agent do it for me and swallowing the booking fees just to make sure there aren't any non-refundable 'mistakes' :rolleyes:

[DanJ]

 

Do you experts always book your own airfare, or do you go through a TA? The last two trips we've taken I've done all the booking myself, but this one is the most complicated and expensive, so I am considering having an agent do it for me and swallowing the booking fees just to make sure there aren't any non-refundable 'mistakes' :rolleyes:

 

I would say most of the people who reply on this forum are frequent fliers who either book themselves or have a corporate travel department making their arrangements. If you don't feel comfortable doing this yourself, by all means talk to a TA. You should also be able to start looking at certain airline websites now for next July. Air Canada is 353 days out, while others are 330.

 

My kids are 10 and while they love playing on my iPad and their iPods, they still love pulling out the NDS as well LOL.

[FlyerTalker]

If you do use a travel agent, be sure they really are an agent that knows air travel and are not just cruiseline order-takers.

 

One good test is to see if they know about the 24 hour rule on international connections. Talk about avoiding stopover charges and see if their eyes glaze over.

[Petoonya]

agree with flyer talker. not all travel agents are created equal. if you can still find one who does some corporate travel you'd be best served. but there are folks here who can probably help brilliantly if you map out your dates and goals when you are ready :) for free!

[sweetpea222]

Thanks for the suggestions, and I'll gladly take up any offers of help. The dates will be pretty much set, so will start to look into flights/costs fairly soon so I have a starting place.

 

Cheers!

[The Pilot]

Also, don't book on discount sites like Expedia. I have had too many run ins with passengers at the ticket counter who bought their ticket through them but never had a ticket in our system... Some had to buy a ticket that morning to get on the flight.

[greatam]

dup post

[greatam]

Hi all. We're planning a wonderful trip next July, flying from Vancouver, BC to Venice for a 12 night Med cruise, and then taking the train to Paris for two weeks and flying back from there. I have absolutely NO IDEA what the airfare for this trip, during high season, might come to. I know it's probably too far in advance and obviously prices fluctuate, but any ball park figures for this kind of flight? There will be 4 of us, two adults and two 12-year-olds.

 

Many thanks, as always...

 

I just did a cursory search because flights can only be booked through about July 17. The CHEAPEST I found using multiple airlines (all Star * partners) was $1479.97 flying mid-week and returning midweek. AND you would fly out of YVR but home to SEA.

 

Using strictly SEA both outbound and inbound doesn't drop the price a dime. In fact, it is higher priced by about $25.00 per ticket.

 

Flying into Rome and out of Paris via YVR both ways cuts the price a little-$1445.00 for the same dates using all Lufthansa flights.

 

Look at other options-they may not be any cheaper but it is worth a look. Condor flies from Canada on limited days. Air Transat flies from Canada. You may be able to price out a ticket from SEA/YVR to JFK/ORD/BOS and take Aer Lingus into Europe. IcelandAir flies from SEA to Europe.

 

Since you are already taking the train from Venice to Paris, look at other European gateways and take the train to the port. You may save a lot of money. But you are flying to Europe at the most expensive time and to one of the most expensive cities with limited air service (Venice) which will make the price higher all the way around.

[Alaskanb]

http://www.seat61.com/Italy.htm#.UC7O4xw5uhY

Personally I would use the train...and fly into London or Paris.

We used this site to organize a train trip from the UK to Budapest.

[sweetpea222]

I did a search via Air Canada yesterday, for the dates we would need, and it came to about $1773 per person all taxes etc included. That was flying Van-Tor-Rome-Venice and then home it would be Paris-Tor-Van. The times were attractive, so I wrote down the date/price/flights/times and will start using this as a starting point for further searches. I had heard about Air Transat. Not sure if they are showing flights this far out? I think, too, that I'll avoid 3rd party sites and just use a TA or book direct with the airline, as the last thing we need would be to get screwed either by my mistake or phantom tickets. :D

[FlyerTalker]

Also remember the pitfall of booking larger "groups". Airline pricing computers will ONLY give you the price for the inventory bucket that can accommodate the ENTIRE group.

 

Example. You want 10 tickets. There are nine seats that would cost $1000, and the next highest bucket is at $2000. Since you couldn't get all ten at the $1000 level, the airline will charge you $2000 for every ticket on that booking.

 

Now, if you had bought nine at $1000 and the last at $2000, the total would be $11k. But buying in a "lump" brings back a total price of $20k.

 

Usually not an issue with a couple....definitely is possible when then number starts getting larger.

[VillaHappy]

Also remember the pitfall of booking larger "groups". Airline pricing computers will ONLY give you the price for the inventory bucket that can accommodate the ENTIRE group.

 

Example. You want 10 tickets. There are nine seats that would cost $1000, and the next highest bucket is at $2000. Since you couldn't get all ten at the $1000 level, the airline will charge you $2000 for every ticket on that booking.

 

Now, if you had bought nine at $1000 and the last at $2000, the total would be $11k. But buying in a "lump" brings back a total price of $20k.

 

Usually not an issue with a couple....definitely is possible when then number starts getting larger.

 

This is great information. Thanks!

[Gardyloo]

Also, don't book on discount sites like Expedia. I have had too many run ins with passengers at the ticket counter who bought their ticket through them but never had a ticket in our system... Some had to buy a ticket that morning to get on the flight.

Are you a pilot or a counter agent? I personally think this is poor advice. People get ordinary PNRs ticketing through online TAs like Expedia, they can select their seats, print out their boarding passes and do pretty much anything they could do if buying directly from the airlines. Expedia will let you mix carriers, even alliances, on one PNR, which individual airlines usually won't. Consumers exercising ordinary common sense with big purchases shouldn't fear using Expedia, Travelocity or Orbitz. I wonder how big your data base is.

 

Also remember the pitfall of booking larger "groups". Airline pricing computers will ONLY give you the price for the inventory bucket that can accommodate the ENTIRE group.

 

Example. You want 10 tickets. There are nine seats that would cost $1000, and the next highest bucket is at $2000. Since you couldn't get all ten at the $1000 level, the airline will charge you $2000 for every ticket on that booking.

 

Now, if you had bought nine at $1000 and the last at $2000, the total would be $11k. But buying in a "lump" brings back a total price of $20k.

 

Usually not an issue with a couple....definitely is possible when then number starts getting larger.

 

This is great information. Thanks!

 

This is a very important point, and the "group booking" agents at airline call centers WILL NOT USUALLY TELL YOU THIS. You should always do some "dummy" bookings for parties of 2 or 4 or 5 and see the prices, then see what the phone agents tell you when you ask about 10. FlyerTalker's caution is well deserved.

[alcpa1]

You'll get loads of advice but from experience, Venice is one of the more expensive airports to use in Europe. A viable option is flying into Milan and taking the train to Venice. Check that out as long as you are researching your alternatives. It's not a half bad way to travel. There are Eurostar trains and locals and everything in between. Malpensa, the international airport, now has its own train terminal too.

Just a thought....

 

Another thought - your connections - do pay very close attention to this, and it can change as we all know. I wouldn't be comfortable in some British and European airports with only two hours unless I was familiar with the facilities. That includes Frankfurt, Paris' Charles de Gaulle, and Heathrow in particular.

 

Good luck, travel is always a challenge.

[jdvmd]

I was going to estimate more in the range of $1,650-$1,700 per person.

[sweetpea222]

I was going to estimate more in the range of $1,650-$1,700 per person.

 

 

That's what I am starting to think, as well. Still loads of time, but it's looking very expensive. Funny, I looked into flying in and out of Paris, and then finding another flight to take from Paris to Venice, hoping it would lower the cost. On Air Canada (the only airline that lets me choose correct return dates) it actually increased the price by a few hundred dollars from the open jaw tickets I searched for originally. :confused:

[Bowie MeMe]

My kids still play with their Nintendo DS's but of course would love to upgrade to an ipad or similar, but Mom gets first dibs when we get one of those! :p

 

We would be flying out of Kelowna, so might check into flights to Seattle with airmiles. Hopefully I'll have enough by then to cover all 4 of us. Those Delta CC's sound tempting, though. :D

 

Do you experts always book your own airfare, or do you go through a TA? The last two trips we've taken I've done all the booking myself, but this one is the most complicated and expensive, so I am considering having an agent do it for me and swallowing the booking fees just to make sure there aren't any non-refundable 'mistakes' :rolleyes:

 

Always do my own booking and I book with the airline. Control freak here and do not want an additional factor of a "consolidator" if something goes wrong. Read about the consolidator -- it keeps many a thread alive here. I tend to think that some of the commentators that have already given you advice have summed up everything nicely and you should take their advice. They were also the ones that taught me about booking air and for that I thank them.

 

Other things to consider: 1 TA gets so little profit from booking airlines (just the fee) and so often if she/he puts time in it the customer then books on own -- TA not so interested in making air. Check if the fee is 4X or only one fee for 4 tickets. Have confidence in yourself that you can and will do the work to find the best flights for you.

2. ITA matrix ( Google it) is the software that used to be available only from TA but now everyone can see it and use it to plan various combinations/flights.

3. Think outside the box in your looking for tickets. I avoid London if possible -- hassle factor. Sometimes a new route will have excellent pricing -- once flew to Copenhagen (get to Europe) then 2 hours later flew to Barcelona on Spanair. That saved me almost a thousand dollars. Segments can (or sometimes they cost more) save money. A ticket to an east coast city then jump to Europe might work. Consider it part of the fun to just play with lots of options. THEN if you find the price that you are comfortable with or below -- be ready to jump on it. Also consider how much time/effort/discomfort one flight has vs another. If you have to have a hotel or taxi etc. that costs much more in money and hassle. Set your priorities (duration of journey, lowest cost, sightseeing/experience factors, calender)

4. Cover your flights with your travel insurance. I consider each cost a part of the whole journey. If I can't cancel it, I consider insuring it. If the cost is something I could cover myself -- I "self Insure". Lately I am finding that the cruise is 1/3 the cost of the journey with air 1/3 and pre and post and other expenses about 1/3. Just covering the cruise does not protect enough. I buy insurance from a party that does not provide the services example TravelGuard not Princess insurance.

 

Hey have fun and keep looking in at CC. You learn lots. Traveling with your kids can be one of the best times ever for a family. Now I am watching the daughter we took to Italy for her 4th summer taking her 3 yo son to Europe leaving in just 15 days.