Fascinating Email Sent To Some 02DEC Glory Passengers

[bbohbbneedacruise]

dbl post

[MrPete]

and I am sure that on the net the story will be misconstrued and twisted around because IMHO all media sources do these days is write their articles so that people will read their papers and don't write them truthfully anymore. It is like TV ratings for the press.

 

The NYPost made me ill yesterday with their article about the airlines not allowing a severly disabled overweight amputee to fly on their plane....but further reading and analysis of the article clearly proves that....

 

the pax should never have even thought to fly in commercial seats even though she bought 3 seats....she should have booked a medical transport. The plane was not equipped for her.

 

It gets worse..the article quotes an attorney..an ambulance chaser...who is not even their attorney..just an attorney who gave their opinion of the situation.

 

So the husband (the wife eventually died several days after not being able to get on the plane..but from the long standing illness that she had) never hired the attorney, but some attorney apparantly got the newspaper to write the article and quote him. aagain, he is not their attorney...just an attorney...who is mulling a lawsuit..for discrimination...something along the lines of...

 

people vs the airlines.

 

the victim never hired the attorney..the wife was on her final trip to say goodby to her homeland when she died..which they knew was coming...and did not book the proper transport home....but it makes the front page.....and I bet it sold plenty of papers yesterday....

 

I refuse to read the NYPost anymore. and yes, the airline told her they were not able to transport her and did everything they could for her, including finding an airline that could transport her..but she showed up at the airport anyway...knowing she would have issues. and the husband, who was interviewed for the article, said he knew she was ill and knew that this would be their last trip and was prepared for her death.

 

So a sick woman takes a trip and her expected death comes...but the airlines are at fault.

 

So cross dressers are taking a cruise..where there are public bathrooms...and the cruiseline asks them to not dress in drag while in the public areas..thus ensuring that those who are not cross dressers and who choose to use the public bathrooms will be assurred that the bathroom will be single sex...and the cruiseline is wrong?

 

This group has every right to book the cruise...but they can't break the rules. Just like a diaper clad baby can't use the pool and a 15 year old can't use the casino.

 

It is the bathroom issue..plain and simple...and the only way to be sure they won't cross the bathroom gender line is to prohibit cross dressing in public.

 

of course there are certainly cross dressers who do use either bathroom...but when you are with a large group of cross dressers it becomes difficult to hide it...an individual maybe could pull it off...but this is a large group.

 

Nah, I don't buy the bathroom issue. Hell, you go to Europe, and the public bathrooms are unisex. It was quite odd the first time I used one. Now, if the guy next to me was lifting his dress to do his business, I still wouldn't look. It could be the guy from LMFAO.

[bbohbbneedacruise]

What about the public bathroom issue? That is going to be a real problem no matter how you look at it.

 

Why are bathrooms even an issue???:confused:

Carnival provides Uni-sex public bathrooms.

[MrPete]

Why are bathrooms even an issue???:confused:

Carnival provides Uni-sex public bathrooms.

 

Really? Where?

[bbohbbneedacruise]

Really? Where?

 

Look at the Deck Plans there is at least 1 Uni-sex restroom on each public deck.

https://www.goccl.com/irman/bookccl/the_fleet/interactive_map/deckplans/shipboard.HTML

You will see .. M L and U in the areas.

They are also WC accessible instead of having a men's HC and a women's HC they have Uni-sex.

So, the public restroom issue is moot.

[iluvdoxies]

Wow. I'm really disappointed that Carnival would send this out. Who cares if someone is in drag? If the "naughty" bits are covered, then it doesn't matter. If they are worried about family friendly, then they need to monitor what some of the women wear onboard. A few times I'm pretty sure we sailed with a group of hookers on vacation. :rolleyes:

 

I agree and they also need to monitor unruly little brats

[jonathansburden]

A few of the performers are on my Facebook and they seem pretty upset. Fans that are booked are talking about canceling and people that aren't are talking about a general Carnival boycot... I don't think carnival realized what a big deal this letter's going to be.

[MrPete]

Look at the Deck Plans there is at least 1 Uni-sex restroom on each public deck.

https://www.goccl.com/irman/bookccl/the_fleet/interactive_map/deckplans/shipboard.HTML

You will see .. M L and U in the areas.

They are also WC accessible instead of having a men's HC and a women's HC they have Uni-sex.

So, the public restroom issue is moot.

 

I think you mean private "family" rooms. They're for anyone who wants to use them, but "1" at a time.

[Maryscooking]

For those of you who don't think there is anything wrong with Carnival's letter, here is another scenario to consider:

 

What if a large group of evangelical Christians was going to be on board the ship, and Carnival sent them all a letter stating that they could not wear their "WWJD" tee shirts, or in fact ANY tee shirt with a Bible verse on it, as it would be overbearing to all of the non-Christians on the ship?

 

I mean, their ship, their policy, right? So many people would not want to look at those shirts all day! Thank goodness Carnival is being proactive and dealing with this before a whole bunch of unsuspecting people are forced to read Bible verses and think about Jesus all day on their VACATION when they just want to get drunk and gamble!

 

I know, right away you are thinking "Completely different!!!" But how so, other than one feels socially acceptable to you and the other one does not? How is it different? Neither type of dress is obscene, neither breaks any laws. Neither impacts anyone else. And neither hurts anyone's family.

[maggie cruises]

Nah, I don't buy the bathroom issue. Hell, you go to Europe, and the public bathrooms are unisex. It was quite odd the first time I used one. Now, if the guy next to me was lifting his dress to do his business, I still wouldn't look. It could be the guy from LMFAO.

 

it is the cross dressing men using the women's room that will cause the problem.

 

What everyone needs to understand is that the vast majority of the human race does not cross dress and are heterosexual...

 

Political correctness and discrimination aside.....

 

one group cannot and should not dictate to the masses.....

 

that is why a diaper clad baby does not go in a pool...

 

because the masses on the ship should not be inconvenienced by the minority...

 

btw...another poster picked up on the bathroom issue as well

[maggie cruises]

I agree and they also need to monitor unruly little brats

 

it is ok to call kids unruly little brats?

 

now you will say..well, if they are then it is OK

 

 

but of course we must stay politically correct with all other groups....even if past experience proves they need monitoring as well?

[MrPete]

it is the cross dressing men using the women's room that will cause the problem.

 

What everyone needs to understand is that the vast majority of the human race does not cross dress and are heterosexual...

 

Political correctness and discrimination aside.....

 

one group cannot and should not dictate to the masses.....

 

that is why a diaper clad baby does not go in a pool...

 

because the masses on the ship should not be inconvenienced by the minority...

 

btw...another poster picked up on the bathroom issue as well

 

Maybe I havent thought about it too much, but I thought it was your parts that "dictated" what room you used, not what you were wearing. I guess Hloween parties are really confusing, especially if you are dressed up as a die, made worse if you roll a 3 or higher.

[maggie cruises]

Why are bathrooms even an issue???:confused:

Carnival provides Uni-sex public bathrooms.

 

that's good to know...and the cross dressers should be directed to use only those bathrooms.

 

but are those bathrooms for families as well? if so...then there is a problem...

 

5 year olds do not need this stuff explained to them.....

 

they are entitled to their childhood

[maggie cruises]

Maybe I havent thought about it too much, but I thought it was your parts that "dictated" what room you used, not what you were wearing. I guess Hloween parties are really confusing, especially if you are dressed up as a die.

 

well that is how it should be...but any reasonable adult can see that it is infringing on the right of the majority of females who expect some privacy while using a public bathroom.

 

a cross dressing male who will of course use a private stall in a female bathroom...is infringing upon those rights...

 

plain and simple...

 

regardless of the private stall issue...it is still discriminating against the actual females using the bathroom at the time...

[bucks724]

People probably won't agree with me, but I can't figure out how people in drag are not "family friendly". Seriously, what child is going to be harmed by it? Families may book on Carnival, but when you cram 3000 people onto a ship for a week, kids may be exposed to all kinds of behavior and people that are different than their home life. That doesn't mean it is bad for them.

 

And why on earth are people assuming that some guy in drag is going to use the women's restroom? AND, even if it happened, who cares? There are stalls.

 

The last I heard there were going to be 800 people or so from this group on the cruise. For Carnival to send out a letter 1 week before the cruise departs, telling people they can't dress in drag outside of their private parties - is just demeaning and ridiculous.

 

I am a mother and I agree with you. At a younger age, my daughter would have thought a man dressed in female clothes was a female. If she heard them talk, she MAY have thought "that lady has a voice like daddy's" but would have probably thought nothing of it. We TEACH our kids to not be accepting of this and that it's wrong. Maybe we should teach out kids to be accepting of people of all sizes, races, genders, etc., as opposed to picking and choosing and hiding behind one reason or another as to why it's wrong.

 

And I hate to break it to people, but shielding kids from things all their lives does nothing - they will see it sooner or later. I think I'd rather my daughter see something and ask me about it so she can hear the truth than ask a friend of the same age and be given inaccurate information. So what? Men like to dress in dresses. We should ALL be scared of them. I'm sure they're really dangerous!

 

I think my daughter was more "offended" seeing the naked lady walk around the beach in Antigua than she would be by a man in drag. Besides, you can see a man in drag in the grocery store.

[fragilek]

wow- I would be mad to turn up on a cruise and find a block booking of over 1300 of any group of people- Thats just too many and the ship should be chartered out to the group only. No offence to any group in particular I couldn't care what they do or what they are- It would just be the number that would get me. Carnival (or any other line) should be making others who book aware that there is a group/party of this size on their cruise. It seem here Carnival are just trying to cover thier backs here. If others do complain then carival will be able to say that its the guests fault, as they are breaking the rules ans thus wash their hands of the problem.

[MrPete]

well that is how it should be...but any reasonable adult can see that it is infringing on the right of the majority of females who expect some privacy while using a public bathroom.

 

a cross dressing male who will of course use a private stall in a female bathroom...is infringing upon those rights...

 

plain and simple...

 

regardless of the private stall issue...it is still discriminating against the actual females using the bathroom at the time...

 

As a very active parent, I used to whisk my DD into the men's room when she needed to use one, and I don't think she ever noticed anything, nor did we make a big deal out of it. And he mothers voice is deeper than mine after smoking for more than 35 years.

[bbohbbneedacruise]

I think you mean private "family" rooms. They're for anyone who wants to use them, but "1" at a time.

 

that's good to know...and the cross dressers should be directed to use only those bathrooms.

 

but are those bathrooms for families as well? if so...then there is a problem...

 

5 year olds do not need this stuff explained to them.....

 

they are entitled to their childhood

 

The "U" public restrooms are not designated as 'Family' they are WC accessible and yes it is only for 1 person and the door locks.

 

I feel that the bathroom issue is moot based on the fact that there are "U" public restrooms.

 

I further think had CCL advised the promoters of the dress code issues 2 years ago when their planning stages started {or even before final payment date} this would have been avoided. But waiting until 7 days before sail date is more of an issue on CCL part than anything else.

 

The group chose a non-school holiday date for a reason .. so there would be minimal kids on board. In fact many queens have their own families they even have 5 year olds.

 

Dress code double standards .. you can wear whatever you want basically to the MDR and CCL takes the stand .. Why should what other people wear ruin your cruise? Females and males can wear thongs on Lido and nothing gets said. But this group wish to wear non-revealing outfits and costumes and get told NO.

There is something wrong with this picture. No matter how much of a stick in the mud a person is you can not deny there is a 'lifestyle' group discrimination and dress code double standard going on here.

 

We want your money but you have to wear what we want you to wear or else. But for the 'families' if they want to wear thongs to the pool and rags to the MDR that is OK:confused:

[bucks724]

I was so caught up in being offended for them, and then I read the response from the TA who organized the cruise. The letter from Carnival was written poorly, but the TA spelled it out and they feel no discrimination. That makes me feel better. Not that I agree with the rule, but if they have issued a call to not take it negatively.... Who am I to do the same.

 

As far as some of the PPs, I don't even know why the bathroom issue was raised. It wasn't addressed in Carnival's letter.

[RuthlessBoss]

wow- I would be mad to turn up on a cruise and find a block booking of over 1300 of any group of people- Thats just too many and the ship should be chartered out to the group only. No offence to any group in particular I couldn't care what they do or what they are- It would just be the number that would get me. Carnival (or any other line) should be making others who book aware that there is a group/party of this size on their cruise. It seem here Carnival are just trying to cover thier backs here. If others do complain then carival will be able to say that its the guests fault, as they are breaking the rules ans thus wash their hands of the problem.

Yes, others should be forewarned if ANY large group is on board. People here on CC were aware. On a previous thread, some cancelled to another week, others were looking forward to this sailing as it would be so different. If I was booked, I'd stay booked for the experience of likely a well behaved group and for the visual aspect. Now, the visual has been snatched away. This must indeed be a disappointment to many.

I'd likely prefer this group to a biker, shriner (example only folks), who'd be fun loving, but likely drinking and rowdy.

How are they going to handle getting into the theaters? How will they decide WHO can get in?

If dress code is to be an issue, it should have been set forth months ago, not one week before sailing when many have their outfits picked out, only to find they can't wear them.

[maggie cruises]

As a very active parent, I used to whisk my DD into the men's room when she needed to use one, and I don't think she ever noticed anything, nor did we make a big deal out of it. And he mothers voice is deeper than mine after smoking for more than 35 years.

 

That is totally different my friend!! You wisked her in..so she would not be exposed to men at the urinal, correct?

 

She knew that she shouldn't really be there..but she also knew that a parent takes care of their kids when nature calls..just as you did....

 

It may not have been a big deal..and it shouldn't have been....

 

But adult females and adult males using the bathroom for their gender have an expectation of privacy...

 

BTW..you having to take your daughter into the men's room..which was done by many parents many times in the past and sometimes still to this day...

 

is the reason why Family Friendly bathrooms exist today....

 

because it just wasn't the best thing to have had to do...

 

Now a mother can feel comfortable when they take their son to the bathroom and vice versa...because they now able to walk in with them.....

 

and men do not have to worry about a small girl in their men's room

 

and women do not have to worry about an 8 year old boy in their women's room....

 

 

I still say...it is the bathroom issue causing the problem

 

and I still stand by this...they should have chartered the entire ship

 

and political correctness is out of control....clear logical thinking should reign supreme...

[rickechambers1@aol.com]

I find that letter offensive. Very disappointing to single out a group. Really?

[maggie cruises]

Yes, others should be forewarned if ANY large group is on board. People here on CC were aware. On a previous thread, some cancelled to another week, others were looking forward to this sailing as it would be so different. If I was booked, I'd stay booked for the experience of likely a well behaved group and for the visual aspect. Now, the visual has been snatched away. This must indeed be a disappointment to many.

I'd likely prefer this group to a biker, shriner (example only folks), who'd be fun loving, but likely drinking and rowdy.

How are they going to handle getting into the theaters? How will they decide WHO can get in?

If dress code is to be an issue, it should have been set forth months ago, not one week before sailing when many have their outfits picked out, only to find they can't wear them.

 

I would have stayed as well...purely for the enjoyment of it

 

but seeing both sides of this issue so to speak...it is understandable that Carnival is concerned

[tiggerman101]

I was so caught up in being offended for them, and then I read the response from the TA who organized the cruise. The letter from Carnival was written poorly, but the TA spelled it out and they feel no discrimination. That makes me feel better. Not that I agree with the rule, but if they have issued a call to not take it negatively.... Who am I to do the same.

 

As far as some of the PPs, I don't even know why the bathroom issue was raised. It wasn't addressed in Carnival's letter.

 

I have yet to weigh in on the whole subject, but you do realize how much money this TA is getting for booking this whole group on the cruise? I am pretty sure THAT factored into their response.

 

Again, I have not said anything on this, but I will say it is a PR nightmare. Carnival waited way too long to send out any type of "rules and regulations" letter.

[maggie cruises]

I find that letter offensive. Very disappointing to single out a group. Really?

 

they have a concern that the singled out group will infringe upon the rights of the majority of pax....

 

 

Just like the smoking restrictions

 

the age restrictions for drinking gambling and booking the cruise

 

There is a reason that someone over age 25 and a guardian must be in the cabin! But that is ok and not discrimination toward 21 year olds..legal adults in everyway possible?

 

stop being PC and look at this issue without bias....

 

The majority of pax is the concern

 

and the cruiseline should not have booked this group..or the group should have chartered the entire ship