Fascinating Email Sent To Some 02DEC Glory Passengers

[Maryscooking]

I was so caught up in being offended for them, and then I read the response from the TA who organized the cruise. The letter from Carnival was written poorly, but the TA spelled it out and they feel no discrimination. That makes me feel better. Not that I agree with the rule, but if they have issued a call to not take it negatively.... Who am I to do the same.

 

As far as some of the PPs, I don't even know why the bathroom issue was raised. It wasn't addressed in Carnival's letter.

 

But read the facebook comments below the letter and what is really going on becomes apparent.

 

It seems like the organizing company might have been told the restrictions when they were originally negotiating the group trip with Carnival - but then did not pass that on to their customers (knowing this would cause them to lose bookings). So their response is what it is because of that. They cannot be outraged about something Carnival communicated to them two years ago...

 

Now the above is speculation, but it is really the only scenario I see their response making sense in. Because pretty much all of their customers are extremely ticked off. There is only one reason they'd take Carnival's side - and that is if they were at fault as well.

[maggie cruises]

That was a very nice response from them, very supportive of Carnival and basically saying lets move on......

 

agree...

 

but at closer look

 

it was written by a TA..well written and very common sense based..but still written by a TA

 

 

which means...commission..or lack of if there are cancellations...

 

just seeing it clearly..no rose colored glasses over here...

[MrPete]

That is totally different my friend!! You wisked her in..so she would not be exposed to men at the urinal, correct?

 

She knew that she shouldn't really be there..but she also knew that a parent takes care of their kids when nature calls..just as you did....

 

It may not have been a big deal..and it shouldn't have been....

 

But adult females and adult males using the bathroom for their gender have an expectation of privacy...

 

BTW..you having to take your daughter into the men's room..which was done by many parents many times in the past and sometimes still to this day...

 

is the reason why Family Friendly bathrooms exist today....

 

because it just wasn't the best thing to have had to do...

 

Now a mother can feel comfortable when they take their son to the bathroom and vice versa...because they now able to walk in with them.....

 

and men do not have to worry about a small girl in their men's room

 

and women do not have to worry about an 8 year old boy in their women's room....

 

 

I still say...it is the bathroom issue causing the problem

 

and I still stand by this...they should have chartered the entire ship

 

and political correctness is out of control....clear logical thinking should reign supreme...

 

No. Just never pointed anything out.

 

Now, when I think of something she pointed out to me, it was actually on a ship, where she proceeded to insert her underwear thong style, announcing the SHE WAS A SHOWGIRL!

[Mainely_Texan]

1. That email was very badly written.

2. Advising them the week of the cruise was completely wrong.

3. I'm sure it was done by CCL in order to cover their backsides. I get that. To a point.

 

All that being said, my husband and I booked this cruise ten months ago as a belated honeymoon. We were never told that there was going to be a Drag Queen group on board or the fact that the group was going to make up close to half of the passenger list. We found out by my husband poking around on here about two weeks ago. Not that we care. We never even entertained the idea of canceling and were looking forward to seeing them in full drag!

Should we have been notified? I think so. I think as due diligence on CCL's part, it wouldn't have been a bad idea. It wouldn't have made a difference for us but it might have for someone else.

I understand the security aspect of it. They take your picture as soon as you come on board. For the "ladies", do they take the pic fully made up or with plain faces? It would make it difficult if anything were to happen, but they could have come up with something.

I don't want to see this ruin the cruise for anyone. We should all be packing and getting excited about leaving on Sunday. Not worrying about this. I say let them dress in drag for evening festivities (because really? Who wants to get all made up to go hang out by the pool.). Heck I was expecting and looking forward to it.

[rickechambers1@aol.com]

they have a concern that the singled out group will infringe upon the rights of the majority of pax....

 

 

Just like the smoking restrictions

 

the age restrictions for drinking gambling and booking the cruise

 

There is a reason that someone over age 25 and a guardian must be in the cabin! But that is ok and not discrimination toward 21 year olds..legal adults in everyway possible?

 

stop being PC and look at this issue without bias....

 

The majority of pax is the concern

 

and the cruiseline should not have booked this group..or the group should have chartered the entire ship

 

Specifically what "rights" would be infringed upon due the appearance of another guest?

[geoherb]

it is the cross dressing men using the women's room that will cause the problem.

 

What everyone needs to understand is that the vast majority of the human race does not cross dress and are heterosexual...

What everyone needs to understand is that it's not about cross dressing men using the women's room. It's about Carnival trying to keep parents from complaining about being on a ship that is (I'm guessing) 25 percent chartered. The problem is that the company sponsoring the drag group couldn't get enough people to charter the whole ship. And then Carnival is foisting unreasonable demands upon the passengers who booked a drag cruise. I don't remember seeing anything in the passage contract forbidding me from dressing in drag when we sailed last March--and my search right now did not turn up any clause in the contract. And on our spring break cruise, I saw numerous passengers flouting Carnival's policies. Some were reprimanded by security, but I did not hear of anyone getting kicked off the ship. They apparently were buying enough drinks that their behavior was overlooked.

[sharecruises]

it is the cross dressing men using the women's room that will cause the problem.

 

What everyone needs to understand is that the vast majority of the human race does not cross dress and are heterosexual...

 

Political correctness and discrimination aside.....

 

one group cannot and should not dictate to the masses.....

 

that is why a diaper clad baby does not go in a pool...

 

because the masses on the ship should not be inconvenienced by the minority...

 

btw...another poster picked up on the bathroom issue as well

 

Ummm...."cross dressers" are usually Heterosexual men...

they often don't even try to pass as women, they just enjoy the look/feel/ of women's clothes...some of their wives indulge them or who knows ..maybe turned on by the "roleplay" from what I have read

 

I would think these guests who want to dress up will look "great">> flamboyant, they will put a LOT of time and effort into it.

 

IF bathrooms were an issue...Carnival could simply say "use the unisex bathrooms" (one at a time) or please go back to your cabin if bathrooms are crowded.

 

That would be a reasonalbe solution

 

Fact is...I didn't like the way some of the young punks on my floor dressed...I don't appreciate the butt crack pants drooping down

 

The gal on my floor who was fighting with her boyfriend looked a wreck..drunk, little tight dress, wobbling around on her high heels, with her mascara running down her face ...what a fright that was

 

I would much rather see a glamorous drag queen in her finery than look at the little mess who was yelling and crying in our hallway LOL

[Stilles]

I find this fascinating on the part of CCL, and as a stockholder in Carnival Corporation, I am appalled.

CARNIVAL GLORY

DECEMBER 2, 2012

November 26, 2012

 

Greetings Fun Seekers!

 

We know you are looking forward to your cruise next month. We're certainly looking forward to welcoming you and your group aboard the beautiful Carnival Glory.

 

There are lots of special activities planned for your group so we are confident you are going to have a great cruise. However, in order to ensure a fun and memorable time for everyone, we want to take a few moments to make you aware of certain policies and conduct expectations so as to avoid any potential disappointment during your cruise.

 

Carnival attracts a number of families with children and for this reason; we strive to present a family friendly atmosphere. It is important to us that all guests are comfortable with every aspect of the cruise. Although we realize this group consists solely of adults, we nonetheless expect all guests to recognize that minors are onboard and, refrain from engaging in inappropriate conduct in public areas.

 

Arrangements have been made for drag performances in the main theater featuring stars from LOGO TV. These functions will be private and only the performers are permitted to dress in drag while in the theater. Guests are not allowed to dress in drag for the performances or in public areas at any time during the cruise.

 

We're sorry to say that any guest who violates our policies and/or whose behavior affects the comfort and enjoyment of other guests, will be disembarked at their own expense and no refund will be given.

 

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

Now that we've taken care of business...let the FUN begin!

 

See you soon!

 

Sincerely,

 

Vicky Rey, CTC

Vice President - Guest Services

This seems pretty draconian, frankly.

 

 

 

I for one must say I don't care what kind of lifestyle anyone chooses and I strongly believe in personal choice, but as a father of a young son I do have to say that I would not want to cruise with my son on a ship with a bunch of people in drag, sorry but thats the way I feel about it.

 

People pay to go on these cruises expecting a family vacation and expect a family friendly enviroment, rightly so because thats how Carnival advertises its cruises. You do have to abide by there rules and there is no reason for you to be appauled at all. You have the power to fire carnival and find another cruiseline that will.

 

 

In all honesty it wouldnt be appropriate to have a large group of men in drag walking around the whole cruise while familes cruise with there childreen who may not understand or arent ready for that "talk" about differnt lifestyles and what parent wants to go on vacation and end up having to worry how to explain to there kids why a bunch of men are dressed as women all over the ship.

 

In all though you do have see that what they are forbiding on board is there call and there really isnt anything you can do about it except maybe sell your shares and not cruise Carnival.

[sharecruises]

What everyone needs to understand is that it's not about cross dressing men using the women's room. It's about Carnival trying to keep parents from complaining about being on a ship that is (I'm guessing) 25 percent chartered. The problem is that the company sponsoring the drag group couldn't get enough people to charter the whole ship. And then Carnival is foisting unreasonable demands upon the passengers who booked a drag cruise. I don't remember seeing anything in the passage contract forbidding me from dressing in drag when we sailed last March--and my search right now did not turn up any clause in the contract. And on our spring break cruise, I saw numerous passengers flouting Carnival's policies. Some were reprimanded by security, but I did not hear of anyone getting kicked off the ship. They apparently were buying enough drinks that their behavior was overlooked.

 

It is 45%

 

JMO - Carnival could prohibit "nudity"...like don't show the fake boobs like some have done on Drag Race tv show...no butt /thong outfits

 

just like Carnival didn't allow the famous/infamous woman in her chain metal dress to dine with everything showing LOL

 

Carnival could also reasonably ask those in Drag to use the (one at time) unisex bathrooms and/or go back to their cabins.

 

That would be a reasonable compromise

 

I hope your cruise works out and that they heed the fact that their PR person has made Carnval look really prejudiced and nasty

[MrPete]

1. That email was very badly written.

2. Advising them the week of the cruise was completely wrong.

3. I'm sure it was done by CCL in order to cover their backsides. I get that. To a point.

 

All that being said, my husband and I booked this cruise ten months ago as a belated honeymoon. We were never told that there was going to be a Drag Queen group on board or the fact that the group was going to make up close to half of the passenger list. We found out by my husband poking around on here about two weeks ago. Not that we care. We never even entertained the idea of canceling and were looking forward to seeing them in full drag!

Should we have been notified? I think so. I think as due diligence on CCL's part, it wouldn't have been a bad idea. It wouldn't have made a difference for us but it might have for someone else.

I understand the security aspect of it. They take your picture as soon as you come on board. For the "ladies", do they take the pic fully made up or with plain faces? It would make it difficult if anything were to happen, but they could have come up with something.

I don't want to see this ruin the cruise for anyone. We should all be packing and getting excited about leaving on Sunday. Not worrying about this. I say let them dress in drag for evening festivities (because really? Who wants to get all made up to go hang out by the pool.). Heck I was expecting and looking forward to it.

 

Your post makes me wonder what the picture gallery will be like.

 

But unlike you, I search heavily for any group cruises on my specific sail date. I found one once on a Rosie group cruise. We cancelled promptly and booked the Miracle instead. And once we came close to a Richard Simmons cruise, who sailed a week before us. Google helps in situations like this.

 

Only once did we come up with a group called Dialysis at Sea. Sounded harmless, and never even noticed. For us, the cruise turned out be be a real pisser.

[MrPete]

Ummm...."cross dressers" are usually Heterosexual men...

they often don't even try to pass as women, they just enjoy the look/feel/ of women's clothes...some of their wives indulge them or who knows ..maybe turned on by the "roleplay" from what I have read

 

I would think these guests who want to dress up will look "great">> flamboyant, they will put a LOT of time and effort into it.

 

IF bathrooms were an issue...Carnival could simply say "use the unisex bathrooms" (one at a time) or please go back to your cabin if bathrooms are crowded.

 

That would be a reasonalbe solution

 

Fact is...I didn't like the way some of the young punks on my floor dressed...I don't appreciate the butt crack pants drooping down

 

The gal on my floor who was fighting with her boyfriend looked a wreck..drunk, little tight dress, wobbling around on her high heels, with her mascara running down her face ...what a fright that was

 

I would much rather see a glamorous drag queen in her finery than look at the little mess who was yelling and crying in our hallway LOL

 

Is this just an assumption? I still haven't figured out who would be more offended, and which rest room is used by a cross dresser?

 

For the record, I've yet to have stood at a urinal next to anything in a dress.

[norgeloki]

I don't really get it. How many children are going to be on a cruise during a school week? Very few and mostly at an age under 5, that would either not understand it or would think it funny. They are probably going to be in the kids program during the day, away from the other passengers and just how late is a 5 year old going to be out on the ship? I can see their point as far as it being a mixed cruise, but I'm sure there are better ways to accomadate everyone. I also can't believe the have a policy like this.

[Stilles]

Wow - seems pretty intolerant. I'm guessing parents don't get emails reminding them that adults without children are on board and outlining behaviors that are acceptable in order to ensure that "everyone is comfortable." Once again, the LGBT community is being singled out. Seems heavy handed. Maybe they've already received negative feedback from others who are also on this cruise. In any event, I hope you have a nice time in spite of the welcome mat being pulled out from under you.

 

 

 

In truth its Carnivals fault for not disclosing that the cruise someone is booking is also hosting a LGBT cruise. If i had booked this cruise and found out a week before id be super pissed off.

 

On the other side if i were booked with the LGBT group and got this letter a week before i cruised i would also be pissed. You guys see where this is going?

[summersigh]

I can just hear the captain on the speaker now .....

"MUSTER AT 10am ... for ADAM'S APPLE CHECK!!!"

:D

[gtalum]

it is disappointing that Carnival would send out a later displaying such blatant discrimination.

[maggie cruises]

No. Just never pointed anything out.

 

Now, when I think of something she pointed out to me, it was actually on a ship, where she proceeded to insert her underwear thong style, announcing the SHE WAS A SHOWGIRL!

 

yes..in all my cruises..Carnival has the most interesting shows!LOL

 

still...this current issue is actually aimed at Carnival being considerate of their majority of pax...and yes...at the expense of a smaller group of pax...

[cruzin68]

I find this fascinating on the part of CCL, and as a stockholder in Carnival Corporation, I am appalled.

CARNIVAL GLORY

DECEMBER 2, 2012

November 26, 2012

 

Greetings Fun Seekers!

 

We know you are looking forward to your cruise next month. We're certainly looking forward to welcoming you and your group aboard the beautiful Carnival Glory.

 

There are lots of special activities planned for your group so we are confident you are going to have a great cruise. However, in order to ensure a fun and memorable time for everyone, we want to take a few moments to make you aware of certain policies and conduct expectations so as to avoid any potential disappointment during your cruise.

 

Carnival attracts a number of families with children and for this reason; we strive to present a family friendly atmosphere. It is important to us that all guests are comfortable with every aspect of the cruise. Although we realize this group consists solely of adults, we nonetheless expect all guests to recognize that minors are onboard and, refrain from engaging in inappropriate conduct in public areas.

 

Arrangements have been made for drag performances in the main theater featuring stars from LOGO TV. These functions will be private and only the performers are permitted to dress in drag while in the theater. Guests are not allowed to dress in drag for the performances or in public areas at any time during the cruise.

 

We're sorry to say that any guest who violates our policies and/or whose behavior affects the comfort and enjoyment of other guests, will be disembarked at their own expense and no refund will be given.

 

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

Now that we've taken care of business...let the FUN begin!

 

See you soon!

 

Sincerely,

 

Vicky Rey, CTC

Vice President - Guest Services

This seems pretty draconian, frankly.

 

I applaud Carnival's position. This is a family cruise line and will have small children aboard. That being said I would not want to explain to my child if there were inappropriate behavior going on. This is NOT a chartered cruise, thus rules DO apply! If you want to DRAG or act inappropriate, do it behind closed doors please! Yes, I may be living in the dark ages.....I prefer it that way!!!

[cruzin68]

If you did not understand that this was NOT a chartered cruise where anything goes.....sorry! You need to be respectful of those that live traditional lives as well! This was not Carnival being insensitive. They were being sensitive!

[JLee1973]

I personally don't care what someone wants to wear and don't really see a problem with it, however from CCL standpoint I can tell you my children were at an event that a large part of the LGBT crowd showed up to. The things that were said and done in public were highly inapproriate and would not be acceptable regardless of your sexual preference. Like all groups there is a certain portion who takes things to an extreme and I think CCL is simply trying to avoid issues.

[CapeCodCruiser]

What about the public bathroom issue? That is going to be a real problem no matter how you look at it.

 

it is the cross dressing men using the women's room that will cause the problem.

 

that is why a diaper clad baby does not go in a pool... This is not because it is an inconvenience - it is a serious health issue

 

because the masses on the ship should not be inconvenienced by the minority...

 

btw...another poster picked up on the bathroom issue as well

 

The bathroom is really a non-issue - I never use a public bathroom on a ship - any cross dressers could easily return to their cabin

 

very disappointed in Carnival's position on this.

[maggie cruises]

wow- I would be mad to turn up on a cruise and find a block booking of over 1300 of any group of people- Thats just too many and the ship should be chartered out to the group only. No offence to any group in particular I couldn't care what they do or what they are- It would just be the number that would get me. Carnival (or any other line) should be making others who book aware that there is a group/party of this size on their cruise. It seem here Carnival are just trying to cover thier backs here. If others do complain then carival will be able to say that its the guests fault, as they are breaking the rules ans thus wash their hands of the problem.

 

1300? OMG....

 

this will disrupt the other pax....no need to be PC on this one...

 

It will become a cruise for the 1300....and everyone else will be pushed aside

 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see this...

 

Carnival really dropped the ball by not insisting on a full charter

 

of course the group may have booked late and the ship was already being sold to others...

[maggie cruises]

The bathroom is really a non-issue - I never use a public bathroom on a ship - any cross dressers could easily return to their cabin

 

very disappointed in Carnival's position on this.

 

It doesn't affect you..but what you are saying is that the cross dressers must be told go back to their cabins to use the bathroom

 

so then you agree that it is the bathroom issue?

 

and just how do you propose to make sure that the cross dressers use their cabin bathrooms?

 

Looks like the Carnival letter is trying to solve that problem by putting it in print what the ship expects from this group in the way of decorum.

 

again...they should have chartered the entire ship.....but then again if they did....they wouldn't be getting their 15 minutes.

 

 

Diapers..health issue..absolutely!

 

Man in dress in women's bathroom or woman in suit in men's bathroom....is as well....

 

quite frankly....a man in the women's room could be accused of anything..regardless of sexual preference...

 

and a woman in the men's room could easily be accosted by the less tolerant....

 

it is a safety issue in this case....not a discrimination on non tolerance issue

[bucks724]

they have a concern that the singled out group will infringe upon the rights of the majority of pax....

 

 

Just like the smoking restrictions

 

the age restrictions for drinking gambling and booking the cruise

 

There is a reason that someone over age 25 and a guardian must be in the cabin! But that is ok and not discrimination toward 21 year olds..legal adults in everyway possible?

 

stop being PC and look at this issue without bias....

 

The majority of pax is the concern

 

and the cruiseline should not have booked this group..or the group should have chartered the entire ship

 

All I see is flaw, flaw, flaw.

 

1. Smoking = law and issue of health - non-smokers everywhere are now protected from the dangers of second-hand smoke by law. In my state, you are not allowed to smoke inside of a business, even if you own it, without being subject to a fine.

 

2. Drinking and Gambling restrictions based on age = law. Carnival doesn't make the laws, they just follow them with respect to gambling and drinking age.

 

3. 21 year olds are adults but can't book their own rooms. They are also not, in most places, allowed to rent cars until they are 25.

 

The point is, all of these things are CLEARLY spelled out in advance and three of the four are based on laws - the Carnival is following but not creating. The other is one that is clearly spelled out and you can't book without it.

 

People need to stop being PC and look at this without bias? I think you need to take your own advice on the bias part. And being PC is in line with being classy and considerate of others. It's not necessarily a bad thing to tolerate those with differences.

[maggie cruises]

I personally don't care what someone wants to wear and don't really see a problem with it, however from CCL standpoint I can tell you my children were at an event that a large part of the LGBT crowd showed up to. The things that were said and done in public were highly inapproriate and would not be acceptable regardless of your sexual preference. Like all groups there is a certain portion who takes things to an extreme and I think CCL is simply trying to avoid issues.

 

this too!

[MrPete]

It doesn't affect you..but what you are saying is that the cross dressers must be told go back to their cabins to use the bathroom

 

so then you agree that it is the bathroom issue?

 

and just how do you propose to make sure that the cross dressers use their cabin bathrooms?

 

Looks like the Carnival letter is trying to solve that problem by putting it in print what the ship expects from this group in the way of decorum.

 

again...they should have chartered the entire ship.....but then again if they did....they wouldn't be getting their 15 minutes.

 

 

Diapers..health issue..absolutely!

 

Man in dress in women's bathroom or woman in suit in men's bathroom....is as well....

 

quite frankly....a man in the women's room could be accused of anything..regardless of sexual preference...

 

and a woman in the men's room could easily be accosted by the less tolerant....

 

it is a safety issue in this case....not a discrimination on non tolerance issue

 

Personally, if I were booked on this cruise and this "secret" got out, I would be demanding a full refund.