For those who say lawsuits are bad, what about lost wages?

[cheewiee]

I don't know about that at all. or on the future cruise credit. For example, shareholder's OBC isn't 1099'd nor any other OBC that I am aware of.

 

It would depend on Carnival's accounting practices... do they cound cruisefare as income for federal taxes? I mean I don't really even know how Carnival bein a multinational handles income tax.. but I would imagine if they woudl have to pay taxes on the dollars they use to compensate passengers, they would pass the tax liability onto the PAX....

[Rottweiler Puppy]

How many days late was it getting into port?

 

3 I think, then figure a day of travel so 4 days missed work or extra vacation used. I am still short almost $320 if I were on that ship and counted the $500 towards lost wages.

[amc80]

It would depend on Carnival's accounting practices... do they cound cruisefare as income for federal taxes? I mean I don't really even know how Carnival bein a multinational handles income tax.. but I would imagine if they woudl have to pay taxes on the dollars they use to compensate passengers, they would pass the tax liability onto the PAX....

 

They wouldn't have to pay taxes on what they compensate passengers, it would be an expense for them.

[amc80]

3 I think, then figure a day of travel so 4 days missed work or extra vacation used. I am still short almost $320 if I were on that ship and counted the $500 towards lost wages.

 

Yeah, if you are looking at gross then the $500 isn't even half of what I'm out. And just because I make that much doesn't mean I don't need it. Unless my mortgage company, car finance companies, utilities, etc. are willing to not charge me for those 4 days. (ha)

[Rottweiler Puppy]

Good point, I hadn't thought of that:D The cruise fare refund.

Is just that a refund of monies already earned, spent and allocated. It is NOT a comp for the extra $ lost. Lost wages are still lost wages no matter how you try to spin it.

[lives to cruise]

So 500, assumes that a PAX makes 125 a day (That would be $15.62 an hour) ... I make more than this... (Extra days Tuesday-Friday)

 

Why should I have to use my Vacation time to make up the difference? Granted when I add my $500.00, my spouses $500 and my child's $500 I think my expenses would be covered, that's only because I took my child, Had I not taken him, I would have been out about 450 bucks between Lost wages and house sitter...

 

Again, why should I have to pay for that?

 

 

Nevemind.;)

[MMastell]

If $500 doesn't cover it, you probably don't need it.

 

That is a very narrow minded attitude. Regardless of what someone makes they are entitled to their lost wages or the use of lost vacation or personal time. Vacation and personal time have a dollar value associated with them. The employer gives them a value and budgets accordingly.

 

The $500 compensation for the additional five days is $100/day or $12.50 an hour. That is $27,500 a year. Someone, with a family, making almost twice that amount, is not a very "wealthy" person.

 

The cruise contract limits people's options to sue to cover lost expenses but, yes; you can sue for lost wages and vacation/personal time that was used beyond what was originally intended.

 

Cahill even stated that the $500 was not settlement but a token amount for the inconvenience of the passenger.

 

If I did not receive compensation for my out of pocket expenses, additional vacation time and/or personal time, I would sue to get it back. I would not sue for mental anguish or other "psychological trauma".

 

Take care,

Mike

[joepeka]

The cruise contract limits people's options to sue to cover lost expenses but, yes; you can sue for lost wages and vacation/personal time that was used beyond what was originally intended.

I guess what I'm wondering is, would a person whose means is such that they really need to recover those lost wages be able to afford the time and expense to sue for them? Would the payback be worth it, assuming they won the judgement? I really don't know, just asking.

[FlaParrotHead]

Very simply - NO.

 

Tell me what travel company - Bus, Train, Airline, Hotel, Resort, anyone who would reimburse customers for lost wages. People are stuck in airports and away from home/work every year due to weather, strikes, health related issues (where they can not travel), etc.

 

Why is this any different and why should Carnival do any more than they already have.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Sargent_Schultz]

That is a very narrow minded attitude. Regardless of what someone makes they are entitled to their lost wages or the use of lost vacation or personal time. Vacation and personal time have a dollar value associated with them. The employer gives them a value and budgets accordingly.

 

Next time get travel insurance that covers lost wages.

 

The cruise contract is clear and Carnival went above and beyond it.

[guxu]

Consider that $500 is after tax money. If they gave you $800 as your income, after tax (you pay double SS tax on 1099) you will get less than $500.

[sailor_jimc]

I agree.. this happens all the time on airlines and other modes of transportation. Maybe not for 4 days but people get stuck in airports all the time.

 

I was on the Triumph. We got our entire cruise paid for plus traveling expenses to and from the port. We are getting the amount we paid for our cruise as credit for a future cruise. So that to me is like getting extra money) and we got the $500 per person check. So, a couple in a balcony cabin basically got the cruise paid for plus almost $2000 in extra cash if you count the $500 x 2, the future cruise credit and the travel expenses (actually its more than $2000) So its not just $500 if you look at it that way. I don't think I have ever gotten anything from an airline when they left me stranded or delayed me.

 

If Carnival were to try to pay lost wages it would quickly get out of hand. For the hourly paid workers its easy, but how many professionals would come forward and claim they lost out on lost deals because they were stuck at sea? Stock brokers, real estate agents, Lawyers etc would be demanding all kinds compensation... its just not possible.

[MMastell]

I guess what I'm wondering is, would a person whose means is such that they really need to recover those lost wages be able to afford the time and expense to sue for them? Would the payback be worth it, assuming they won the judgement? I really don't know, just asking.

 

That really does depend on the individual and their lawyer. Would the lawyer take the case on a contingency. Would the individual be willing to sue in a small claims court.

 

It all boils down to if the cruise line was negligent in some manner. If negligence is proven then the cruise contract goes out the window and the cruise line is more open to settle.

 

I know a lot of people would just shrug their shoulders and take whatever was offered. Does that means it's right or fair and should an individual just go away and be happy with whatever they get? Those are the hard questions and can only be answered by the individual.

 

Take care,

Mike

[The4Cruisers]

So for the couple extra hundred dollars that some people claim to have lost (beyond the $500 and other perks), they're willing to spend time finding a snake.. err i mean lawyer, spending time in their consultation, going to court, and then paying fees with their winnings (if they win)?

 

What a bunch of nonsense. It's simply a money grab.

 

I agree... Unless you have extenuating circumcstances, take the $500 and perks and move on.

[MMastell]

Next time get travel insurance that covers lost wages.

 

The cruise contract is clear and Carnival went above and beyond it.

 

The cruise contract is clear but if negligence is proven then it goes out the window.

 

BTW: Travel insurance doesn't just pay. If there is another avenue of compensation the insurance company will make you exhaust that route before they pay.

 

I agree that everyone should have travel insurance but the $500 does not make everything OK for all. The reimbursement of the cruise is a moot point. Carnival failed to deliver a full cruise. The additional cruise is merely a gesture and something the individual is not obligated to take and, until taken, has no monetary value.

 

Take care,

Mike

[Sargent_Schultz]

The snake will want at least a third of anything recovered and the plaintiff will lose considerable wages dealing with snakes and courts that are not recoverable.

 

Yes, if Carnival was negligent the contract can be broken. I doubt anyone can prove Carnival was negligent because I don't think they were, but in any event, that would require experts to testify and experts don't testify for free. You could easily go bankrupt trying to recover a few days of wages.

[cheewiee]

They wouldn't have to pay taxes on what they compensate passengers, it would be an expense for them.

 

Right but they would have to account for it as an expense... hence the 1099

[airmj2123]

Consider that $500 is after tax money. If they gave you $800 as your income, after tax (you pay double SS tax on 1099) you will get less than $500.

 

Finally, someone doing math correctly.

 

Here is how I would view this offer (in terms of value to cover extra expenses/lost wages):

 

Future Cruise- Worthless, has no value today.

Refund from cruise- 3/4 of the vacation was used and enjoyed, so that 3/4 could easily be applied to lost wages... If some spent $400 on the cruise, they could apply $300 to cover lost wages (since this was the portion of their trip enjoyed).

Refund on all on board non-casino and non-gift shop- 100% goes to lost wages/extra expenses. You used these things prior to the fire.

$500- This is $500.

 

So theoretically, we are probably talking an easy $1000-1200 in refund. So if we take $1100 add in taxes and multiply by 52... That's $97,500 per person (if you were not planning on returning to work Monday) or $78,000... May not cover in full but it is certainly closer than the $500 number.

[Sargent_Schultz]

 

I agree that everyone should have travel insurance but the $500 does not make everything OK for all. The reimbursement of the cruise is a moot point. Carnival failed to deliver a full cruise. The additional cruise is merely a gesture and something the individual is not obligated to take and, until taken, has no monetary value.

 

 

I think once the cruise ship broke, Carnival could have declared the cruise over and dumped the passengers off in Progreso or any other port to get home on their own, with no compensation whatsoever.

 

See 7e)

http://www.carnival.com/CMS/Static_Templates/ticket_contract.aspx

[amc80]

Right but they would have to account for it as an expense... hence the 1099

 

Correct. I was just responding to the "if Carnival has to pay taxes on it" statement. They wouldn't, but the passengers would.

[cheewiee]

Finally, someone doing math correctly.

 

Here is how I would view this offer (in terms of value to cover extra expenses/lost wages):

 

Future Cruise- Worthless, has no value today.

Refund from cruise- 3/4 of the vacation was used and enjoyed, so that 3/4 could easily be applied to lost wages... If some spent $400 on the cruise, they could apply $300 to cover lost wages (since this was the portion of their trip enjoyed).

Refund on all on board non-casino and non-gift shop- 100% goes to lost wages/extra expenses. You used these things prior to the fire.

$500- This is $500.

 

So theoretically, we are probably talking an easy $1000-1200 in refund. So if we take $1100 add in taxes and multiply by 52... That's $97,500 per person (if you were not planning on returning to work Monday) or $78,000... May not cover in full but it is certainly closer than the $500 number.

 

 

So I think that there are some invalid assumptions here... One is pretty huge, and that will the IRS see this as taxalbe income? (The 500.00) my bet is that it will be, and that benefit now drops...

 

With that said, had I been struck on the Triumph depending on if I brought my child or not, I would be looking at somewhere around a 200-400 dollar loss on the trip with House sitter/lost wages (using my PTO to cover) and my wife's lost wages as she would not have the accrued PTO, and would have to have taken it unpaid.

 

Again, if someone can demonstrate to Carnival, that they are out more money than the compensation package allows for $500 & Bar Tab, then they should pay the difference.

 

With regards to airlines, if your flight is cancelled/delayed due to mechanical issues, and you can demonstrate some loss, they ususally make it up... what they don't do is reumburse you for weather related events.

[rudechuck]

As a general rule, I'm against excessive litigation. I don't think everyone on that ship is entitled to further compensation above and beyond what Carnival is already giving. However, not everyone's situation is identical and if you have special damages, such as lost wages or a health issue that arose from the conditions, an injury, or who knows what else, then absolutely you have a right to be compensated.

 

As far as the form of compensation:

 

1. The refund of the cruise and other non-refundable expenses. I think we all agree the passengers are entitled to that. Carnival did not provide the services advertised and it was not caused by inclement weather or other outside force, but by something Carnival does have control over, the maintenance of its ships.
   
2. The credit for a future cruise. I'm sure there are quite a few passengers who will never want to cruise again, at least not with Carnival. While I would accept and appreciate this offer, to some it will be worthless.
   
3. The $500.00. This is probably more than adequate for the majority of passengers. However, I'm sure others have special circumstances such as lost wages or other expenses caused by the delay in getting home.
   

I think Carnival's initial handling of this will avoid litigation by the majority of passengers by way of the compensation already offered. There will also be lawsuits by many greedy people who truly don't deserve any further compensation. But that does not mean that there aren't some who have a right to something more based on their individual circumstances.

 

Just one cheerleader's opinion. :D

[cheewiee]

I think once the cruise ship broke, Carnival could have declared the cruise over and dumped the passengers off in Progreso or any other port to get home on their own, with no compensation whatsoever.

 

See 7e)

http://www.carnival.com/CMS/Static_Templates/ticket_contract.aspx

 

Perhaps, but then we would have more "Carnival going broke" threads to engage in...

[cheewiee]

As a general rule, I'm against excessive litigation. I don't think everyone on that ship is entitled to further compensation above and beyond what Carnival is already giving. However, not everyone's situation is identical and if you have special damages, such as lost wages or a health issue that arose from the conditions, an injury, or who knows what else, then absolutely you have a right to be compensated.

 

As far as the form of compensation:

 

1. The refund of the cruise and other non-refundable expenses. I think we all agree the passengers are entitled to that. Carnival did not provide the services advertised and it was not caused by inclement weather or other outside force, but by something Carnival does have control over, the maintenance of its ships.
   
2. The credit for a future cruise. I'm sure there are quite a few passengers who will never want to cruise again, at least not with Carnival. While I would accept and appreciate this offer, to some it will be worthless.
   
3. The $500.00. This is probably more than adequate for the majority of passengers. However, I'm sure others have special circumstances such as lost wages or other expenses caused by the delay in getting home.
   

I think Carnival's initial handling of this will avoid litigation by the majority of passengers by way of the compensation already offered. There will also be lawsuits by many greedy people who truly don't deserve any further compensation. But that does not mean that there aren't some who have a right to something more based on their individual circumstances.

 

Just one cheerleader's opinion. :D

 

Well said!

[DirtyDawg]

I agree.. this happens all the time on airlines and other modes of transportation. Maybe not for 4 days but people get stuck in airports all the time.

 

I was on the Triumph. We got our entire cruise paid for plus traveling expenses to and from the port. We are getting the amount we paid for our cruise as credit for a future cruise. So that to me is like getting extra money) and we got the $500 per person check. So, a couple in a balcony cabin basically got the cruise paid for plus almost $2000 in extra cash if you count the $500 x 2, the future cruise credit and the travel expenses (actually its more than $2000) So its not just $500 if you look at it that way. I don't think I have ever gotten anything from an airline when they left me stranded or delayed me.

 

If Carnival were to try to pay lost wages it would quickly get out of hand. For the hourly paid workers its easy, but how many professionals would come forward and claim they lost out on lost deals because they were stuck at sea? Stock brokers, real estate agents, Lawyers etc would be demanding all kinds compensation... its just not possible.

 

Nothing is impossible. Hard to do, complicated, sure but not impossible.

 

Hey if NASA could put a man on the moon I'm sure the smart folks at Carnival (including their Law firms) can figure this one out. :rolleyes: