Not long back from Journey. A few random thoughts.......

[Willow1686]

All cruise ships have armed security personnel on board, it is just that on a cruise in this part of the world, additional personnel are taken on board with further specialist knowledge. I can see absolutely no reason why their existence on board would invalidate your travel insurance policy unless you have a very unusual policy. I have checked all our policies (for various reasons we have several) and none of them would be invalidated, the only invalidation would come if we were travelling in an area where there was Foreign and Commonwealth Office guidance not to travel in that area. That is not the case in the area you were cruising.

 

I have had discussions on a previous voyage with an Azamara captain about the desk top exercises they go through and briefings ahead of each sailing in that area. I also know the degree of diligence Captain Tysse applies in his work and there is absolutely no way he would be blind to any potential dangers and would be judging the extent to which he had to restrict passenger movements based on all the information available to him.

 

Sorry, but if you felt uncomfortable about sailing in that area, I would say this was a lack of due diligence on your part given that you were not placed in any more risk than in other cruises, what you saw was the cruise line managing the situation to maintain risk levels. Would you be equally unhappy if you were restricted from balconies or outside decks on a transatlantic cruise - yes that happens if there were storm force winds?

 

All cruise ships have armed security personnel on board, it is just that on a cruise in this part of the world, additional personnel are taken on board with further specialist knowledge. I can see absolutely no reason why their existence on board would invalidate your travel insurance policy unless you have a very unusual policy. I have checked all our policies (for various reasons we have several) and none of them would be invalidated, the only invalidation would come if we were travelling in an area where there was Foreign and Commonwealth Office guidance not to travel in that area. That is not the case in the area you were cruising.

 

I have had discussions on a previous voyage with an Azamara captain about the desk top exercises they go through and briefings ahead of each sailing in that area. I also know the degree of diligence Captain Tysse applies in his work and there is absolutely no way he would be blind to any potential dangers and would be judging the extent to which he had to restrict passenger movements based on all the information available to him.

 

Sorry, but if you felt uncomfortable about sailing in that area, I would say this was a lack of due diligence on your part given that you were not placed in any more risk than in other cruises, what you saw was the cruise line managing the situation to maintain risk levels. Would you be equally unhappy if you were restricted from balconies or outside decks on a transatlantic cruise - yes that happens if there were storm force winds?

 

May I suggest that you read the guidance from IMO's MSC on this issue before holding forth at such length? For someone lauding the praises of due diligence you seem to have done remarkably little reading; the only situation in which the MSC accepts the use of privately contracted armed security personnel at all is in the designated High Risk Area, and even then it stresses that it does not in any way recommend their use and asks Flag States to bear in mind the fact that the presence of armed personnel may well increase the the risk of violent injury to all concerned.

 

Its guidance to the companies offering such services requires, amongst many other things, the presence of people with the necessary medical experience to deal with gunshot wounds, bearing in mind the difficulties in trying to offload such trauma victims in the High Risk Area.

 

I don't know how you manage to reconcile your claims with the obvious fact that the armaments could only be brought on after the ship left India's territorial waters and had to be taken off the ship once it reached the Red Sea; did it not occur to you that this completely contradicted your beliefs? There is a world of difference between a couple of guns locked in the Captain's safe and RPGs; the fact that you appear unable to tell the difference between them is not helpful if you wish to convince others that you know what you are talking about.

 

And my very comprehensive travel insurance does not cover medical treatment and emergency repatriation from gunshot wounds from a cruise ship; AXA PPP, a market leader, and a necessity for anyone with anything wrong with them in the first place, have only just introduced this coverage for normal medical conditions. I doubt that they are likely to introduce it for people caught in a firefight on a cruise ship anytime soon. Most travel insurance policies don't cover emergency repatriation from cruise ships at all; perhaps you should reread your policies more carefully, after you have finished reading the guidance on the use of non military armed personnel in the High Risk Area...

[Willow1686]

My apologies for the double quote; whenever I try to post a long reply it tells me it does not know me, notwithstanding the fact that it's showing my screen name and I have to try again. The double quote is a new wrinkle...

[Willow1686]

I find it surprising that anyone would join this cruise and not research where they were going, or be surprised at the additional risks and added security.

 

Why did you select this sailing in the first place?

 

I chose it because I love being at sea where I can star watch. And I was well aware of the problems in this area; my father served 35 years in the RAF and a fair number of his postings were in this area. It's not as if the Gulf of Aden has ever been a haven of tranquility.

 

What is different is the use of security arrangements which the IMO has consistently tried to discourage because they believe them to increase the risks of all sides being injured, being put into place along with a black out arrangement which seems irrational. Statistically piracy attacks are less likely to happen at night; the preferred time is daybreak.

 

Azamara are, of course, perfectly free to put arrangements in place which the IMO believes are more likely to result in injuries to the intended victims of pirates but I do believe that they should be upfront about these; that way potential passengers can make decisions based on the facts.

[uktog]

 

perhaps you should reread your policies more carefully, ...

 

I have and like many I am fully covered

 

I am surprised given your level of knowledge that you were unaware there would be restrictions onboard

[Jade13]

I chose it because I love being at sea where I can star watch. And I was well aware of the problems in this area; my father served 35 years in the RAF and a fair number of his postings were in this area. It's not as if the Gulf of Aden has ever been a haven of tranquility.

 

What is different is the use of security arrangements which the IMO has consistently tried to discourage because they believe them to increase the risks of all sides being injured, being put into place along with a black out arrangement which seems irrational. Statistically piracy attacks are less likely to happen at night; the preferred time is daybreak.

 

Azamara are, of course, perfectly free to put arrangements in place which the IMO believes are more likely to result in injuries to the intended victims of pirates but I do believe that they should be upfront about these; that way potential passengers can make decisions based on the facts.

 

I am not entirely clear on what you are referencing (International Maritime Organization), but if I was this concerned about being shot by trained personnel carrying a gun on the ship I would stay home.

 

Thank you for detailed information including pirate attacks more likely to happen during the day time, but reading your post I am even more surprised that you were not aware (or didn't research) the security measures being taken by Azamara/RCCL since you have such a strong opinion on the subject.

 

As far as your insurance, you may want to look at other options in the future. If I was accidentally shot by personnel on the ship my medical insurance would cover.

[Mparis184]

I thought the ships were perfect the way they were. Sailing on the Quest in November and hope the changes won't take away from the comfortable ambiance of these wonderful ships.

 

Marion

[excitedofharpenden]

I thought the ships were perfect the way they were. Sailing on the Quest in November and hope the changes won't take away from the comfortable ambiance of these wonderful ships.

 

Marion

They won't. There really is little change, at least in the passenger areas. Still comfortable and welcoming, although I have to say some of the soft furnishings in the suite I was in could have done with an update if Azamara are aiming higher with their prices.

 

Phil

[onthebalcony]

Hi Phil,

You did a great job with the review on the Journey!! We had a great time and the sea days went by so fast. Finding shade in the heat and humidity was a challenge so I ended up on our balcony!! We had no problem with the pirate situation and read about it before the cruise here in CC. It was an adventure!!

 

It was a pleasure meeting you and Helen. I have been busy preparing for our Quest cruise on June 10th to the Baltic so just began reading this area again!!

 

All the best to the other cruiser here from the May 1 cruise!

Anne

[Willow1686]

I am not entirely clear on what you are referencing (International Maritime Organization), but if I was this concerned about being shot by trained personnel carrying a gun on the ship I would stay home.

 

Thank you for detailed information including pirate attacks more likely to happen during the day time, but reading your post I am even more surprised that you were not aware (or didn't research) the security measures being taken by Azamara/RCCL since you have such a strong opinion on the subject.

 

As far as your insurance, you may want to look at other options in the future. If I was accidentally shot by personnel on the ship my medical insurance would cover.

 

I won't waste space repeating the explanation of English Law I have already given, but I should note that people with long experience of military personnel know a great deal more about the hazards of friendly fire than civilians. Sadly I come under the first category, and there are no rose tinted spectacles available to wipe the information from my memory. I suspect this is one of the reasons why the Typhon Team Members were so shocked by the fact that the civilians had not been warned of the dangers before booking their cruises. Of course, they are English too, so the expectation of full disclosure is ingrained into them also.

 

Thank you for the info on your policy; I gather that Medical Insurance policies vary very considerably depending on where they are written; mine is written in England, and is, I am told, one of the most inclusive on the English market. Clearly things are different on your side of the pond. :)

[excitedofharpenden]

Hi Phil,

You did a great job with the review on the Journey!! We had a great time and the sea days went by so fast. Finding shade in the heat and humidity was a challenge so I ended up on our balcony!! We had no problem with the pirate situation and read about it before the cruise here in CC. It was an adventure!!

 

It was a pleasure meeting you and Helen. I have been busy preparing for our Quest cruise on June 10th to the Baltic so just began reading this area again!!

 

All the best to the other cruiser here from the May 1 cruise!

Anne

Anne, it was great spending some time with you and Jim. Sorry we didn't get to do that Specialty dinner. I hope to see you both on another cruise.

 

Phil

[eleang]

Thank you Phill for posting your comments. I enjoyed very much when you were posting live from your trip.

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

Ele

[Texed]

Phil,

Thanks for posting. :)