Europe River Cruising WORST EVER company

[Emma Chisit]

It is hardly 'pathetic' for people to be upset about having wasted thousands of $$ on a bus trip ...You seem to imply that anyone who complains about their holiday has no sympathy for the locals who took the brunt of the damage and inconvenience, I'm sure that nothing could be further from the truth. It is perfectly possible to have sympathy for the locals while still finding the performance of your holiday company to be inadequate. The suffering of a group of people unrelated to the owners and managers of the cruise company does not excuse the treatment described here ...

 

poor and inadequate customer service is an entirely different and separate issue to discussions and reflections about human loss and suffering in disaster situations.the treatment described by marty was appalling. he paid for a river cruise. the cruise company did little, it sounds to deliver the product he paid for and he is right to complain.to compare his experience to that of the plight of human loss in natural disasters, is absurd.we as consumers have lots of choices in who we travel with. different products suit different people. if we had received the treatment described we would also complain and tell others. nothing is perfect in travel but when things go wrong, its how a company treats its paying guests that is important. we have seen evidence of that on here.

 

Excellent posts from Mark T and pully8 above in response to Osnab's post, and I would like to add something from the perspective of someone who has gone through a natural disaster (hurricane not flood).

Osnab, I am pleased that you complimented Marty156 on his response to your post, however you may have missed one relevant sentence in his response “ I understand where you are coming from, and yes, our sympathy also went out to those that lost everything (we have many floods here also and I lost all in the 1974 floods) and know full well the devastation and loss of life that happens.” The location of Marty156 indicates he lives in Queensland, Australia (as I do also – but it is a big state, and no, I don’t know him, there are about 4 million of us.). However, I am an Australian who lived in the US for 17 years, so I know that not everything that has happened here in Oz in the past is something Americans would be aware of. And no wonder of course, as you have enough natural disasters and tragedies of your own to contend with.

 

So, a little background if I may. The 1974 floods that Marty156 refers to here in Queensland were devastating, with loss of life and extensive damage. In our capital city of Brisbane the river flooded the city and many people were killed, and much property lost. That event defined a generation in Queensland. Then the same thing happened again more recently in 2010-11, where vast areas of the state of Queensland were flooded, including again the capital city (despite flood mitigation measures). Three-quarters of the state of Queensland was declared a disaster zone, many people died (38 killed as well as 9 missing, never recovered), once again many people lost their homes, businesses and everything they owned. Queensland, by the way, is two and a half times the size of Texas, so imagine what a vast disaster area three-quarters of the state was…..

That terrible event is still fresh in our minds here in Queensland, and most of us know someone who suffered losses. (One of my dear friends lost her Brisbane house.) Many of us who had experienced disasters in our own lives were shaken by these recent events. So we are particularly unlikely to dismiss the similar suffering in Europe, just because we have had a holiday adversely affected. Because Australia is a small country of just over 23 million we keenly feel and remember all the disasters that have befallen us, and empathize with others affected by disaster. (My experience with a natural disaster was in 1974, when our house was torn apart by a cyclone (hurricane) in the northern city of Darwin - with us in it - and we nearly died. This happened on Christmas Eve – and is still remembered by Australians all these years later.)

 

So…. both Marty156 and I have first-hand experience of being in a devastating natural disaster like the floods in Europe. I certainly am only too aware of what that experience means, as Marty156 has said he is. However I would certainly complain as he has done – not of course if a natural disaster disrupted my travel plans (!) – but if a tour operator behaved as poorly as Scenic Tours/Evergreen did following such an event. It wouldn’t be whining or lack of sympathy! Remember that many other river tour operators looked after their similarly-affected customers very well. Also, anyone who has experienced a disaster of these proportions, ie losing everything you own, is also quite likely to have taken many years to recover financially – that was certainly the case for our family and the friends who went through the 1974 cyclone. Therefore holidays are keenly anticipated, people save for retirement and to be able to travel. Marty said earlier on this thread that his tour cost 16K - and he also said “It certainly killed our 'holiday of a lifetime' and with the exhorbitant costs from 'down under' we will never be able to do that trip again.”

What he wanted was a “fair go” (Australian expression) from the tour company Scenic Tours/Evergreen. He didn’t get it.

[pully8]

well said emma.

[cruzemaven]

Excellent posts from Mark T and pully8 above in response to Osnab's post, and I would like to add something from the perspective of someone who has gone through a natural disaster (hurricane not flood).

Osnab, I am pleased that you complimented Marty156 on his response to your post, however you may have missed one relevant sentence in his response “ I understand where you are coming from, and yes, our sympathy also went out to those that lost everything (we have many floods here also and I lost all in the 1974 floods) and know full well the devastation and loss of life that happens.” The location of Marty156 indicates he lives in Queensland, Australia (as I do also – but it is a big state, and no, I don’t know him, there are about 4 million of us.). However, I am an Australian who lived in the US for 17 years, so I know that not everything that has happened here in Oz in the past is something Americans would be aware of. And no wonder of course, as you have enough natural disasters and tragedies of your own to contend with.

 

So, a little background if I may. The 1974 floods that Marty156 refers to here in Queensland were devastating, with loss of life and extensive damage. In our capital city of Brisbane the river flooded the city and many people were killed, and much property lost. That event defined a generation in Queensland. Then the same thing happened again more recently in 2010-11, where vast areas of the state of Queensland were flooded, including again the capital city (despite flood mitigation measures). Three-quarters of the state of Queensland was declared a disaster zone, many people died (38 killed as well as 9 missing, never recovered), once again many people lost their homes, businesses and everything they owned. Queensland, by the way, is two and a half times the size of Texas, so imagine what a vast disaster area three-quarters of the state was…..

That terrible event is still fresh in our minds here in Queensland, and most of us know someone who suffered losses. (One of my dear friends lost her Brisbane house.) Many of us who had experienced disasters in our own lives were shaken by these recent events. So we are particularly unlikely to dismiss the similar suffering in Europe, just because we have had a holiday adversely affected. Because Australia is a small country of just over 23 million we keenly feel and remember all the disasters that have befallen us, and empathize with others affected by disaster. (My experience with a natural disaster was in 1974, when our house was torn apart by a cyclone (hurricane) in the northern city of Darwin - with us in it - and we nearly died. This happened on Christmas Eve – and is still remembered by Australians all these years later.)

 

So…. both Marty156 and I have first-hand experience of being in a devastating natural disaster like the floods in Europe. I certainly am only too aware of what that experience means, as Marty156 has said he is. However I would certainly complain as he has done – not of course if a natural disaster disrupted my travel plans (!) – but if a tour operator behaved as poorly as Scenic Tours/Evergreen did following such an event. It wouldn’t be whining or lack of sympathy! Remember that many other river tour operators looked after their similarly-affected customers very well. Also, anyone who has experienced a disaster of these proportions, ie losing everything you own, is also quite likely to have taken many years to recover financially – that was certainly the case for our family and the friends who went through the 1974 cyclone. Therefore holidays are keenly anticipated, people save for retirement and to be able to travel. Marty said earlier on this thread that his tour cost 16K - and he also said “It certainly killed our 'holiday of a lifetime' and with the exhorbitant costs from 'down under' we will never be able to do that trip again.”

What he wanted was a “fair go” (Australian expression) from the tour company Scenic Tours/Evergreen. He didn’t get it.

 

Very well expressed. It would be helpful if river cruise companies could be more upfront in their advertising. They should explain from the get go that the customer is taking his chances that these types of vacation will proceed as advertised.People rarely read the small print and end up surprised when the product turns into a completely different mode. Of course, truth in advertising would probably deter many potential customers who are unaware of the issues that can affect river cruising so I doubt that we will see these companies advertising from a heads up stand point...but it would be an honest an refreshing approach.

[pully8]

we have found travel products like other consumer items, require research. a good travel agent can offer advice based on your requirements and their knowledge. with experience we can look beyond the glossy promotional material.forums like this are valuable too to exchange info from travellers.

 

when spending thousands of hard earnt it really makes sense to explore all options. life is too short for bad service.

[4774Papa]

well said emma.

Very well said.

[boatsafloat]

This has been so informative..thanks to everyone. We travelled with Avalon from Budapest to Amsterdam a few years ago in May and had wonderful weather, a great cruise director and entire staff.

 

We wish to go again next year to France and are looking into the best time of year and cruise company. We always use a Travel Agent and research weather patterns etc. Too bad we have to book a year in advance or we may have a better shot at cancelling for any reason. Regardless, we buy travel insurance for back up. $1600. is a lot of dollars to waste, so if disaster struck, we would try to make the best of it.

 

Our Travel agent brought out an Avalon Representative who answered our questions. We read the fine print and were well aware of changing plans using buses due to flood conditions. This was another reason we chose May.

 

I am so sorry for all of you who were on that trip. We always read reviews from Cruise critic and trip advisor. Free drinks to me, does not make up for great service.

 

We will avoid travelling with Scenic/Evergreen on our next trip, but if the reviews improve..who knows, maybe they will have a better itinerary than the others.

 

Boatsafloat

[harbourside]

Scenic is launching two new cruises ships under a new company. EMERALD WATERWAYS. These cruises will be 4 star instead of 5 star and will be marketed to a younger demographic. They say they will be in competition with Avalon and Viking. New website will be available by 21st August.

There is a report in Cruise Critic news.

[Marty156]

Excellent posts from Mark T and pully8 above in response to Osnab's post, and I would like to add something from the perspective of someone who has gone through a natural disaster (hurricane not flood).

The location of Marty156 indicates he lives in Queensland, Australia (as I do also – but it is a big state, and no, I don’t know him, there are about 4 million of us

 

So, a little background if I may. The 1974 floods that Marty156 refers to here in Queensland were devastating.......

 

(My experience with a natural disaster was in 1974, when our house was torn apart by a cyclone (hurricane) in the northern city of Darwin - with us in it - and we nearly died. This happened on Christmas Eve – and is still remembered by Australians all these years later.)

 

So…. both Marty156 and I have first-hand experience of being in a devastating natural disaster like the floods in Europe.

However I would certainly complain as he has done – not of course if a natural disaster disrupted my travel plans (!) – but if a tour operator behaved as poorly as Scenic Tours/Evergreen did following such an event. It wouldn’t be whining or lack of sympathy! Remember that many other river tour operators looked after their similarly-affected customers very well. Also, anyone who has experienced a disaster of these proportions, ie losing everything you own, is also quite likely to have taken many years to recover financially – that was certainly the case for our family and the friends who went through the 1974 cyclone. Therefore holidays are keenly anticipated, people save for retirement and to be able to travel. Marty said earlier on this thread that his tour cost 16K - and he also said “It certainly killed our 'holiday of a lifetime' and with the exhorbitant costs from 'down under' we will never be able to do that trip again.”

What he wanted was a “fair go” (Australian expression) from the tour company Scenic Tours/Evergreen. He didn’t get it.

 

Thank you so very much for your most eloquent response Emma Chisit!

Certainly better put and far clearer than how I could possibly say it.

 

As for your own situation Emma Chisit, I think I still have my yellow T shirt emblazone with "I cleaned up Darwin, Cyclone Tracy, 1974" so enough said about that. I still have many sad photos of the aftermath of that event.

 

It is gratifying to me that there are so many people that believe we were 'ripped off' and all we would like is equitable compensation.

 

I'm very deeply touched by the expressions of empathy shown by all the comments, and especially by the recent comments from:

Emma Chisit, MMDown Under, Mark T, Pully8, CruzeMaven

Edited August 19, 2013 by Marty156

[dougo in oz]

Marty

 

just found your post and first of all, I have to say I have a lot of empathy for you and anyone whose holidays do not live up to expectations.

 

As you and others have noted, the natural disaster of incessant rain and subsequent flooding not to mention loss of lives and properties was terrible. There was nothing you or Evergreen / Scenic Tours could have done about that.

 

But what was within your tour company's control was cancellation which IMO should have happened. And what's worse apart from the chaos and confusion of being thousands of miles from home and not being able to get a lot - if any - information from the company, was that their people on the ground in Europe could see what was happening and either didn't relate that information to head office, or if they did, that advice was ignored !

 

In fact it seems that in their email to you Evergreen / Scenic Tours said that you would not have a bus holiday ... but essentially that's what you got !! How they think spending about half of your cruising holiday and many many hours on a bus when you should have been on a cruise is NOT a bus holiday is beyond me.

 

 

At some $1,000 per day regardless if it includes all meals, it is not a cruise when you are bussed. It is an overpriced bus trip in anyone's language. And $500 compensation? That's not compensation IMO, that's a slap in the face.

 

The Australian Consumer Law (ACL) is what you need to be looking at if you want to pursue this matter. The ACL is found in Schedule 2 of the Competition and Consumer Act 2010 which is the "new" name of the Trade Practices Act 1974.

 

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/legis/cth/consol_act/caca2010265/sch2.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=schedule%202

 

This Act and the ACL is now a piece of legislation that is across all States (and Territories) and is administered by the ACCC, not the Dept of Fair Trading. This is the one you need to be looking at ... trust me on that as my other half has a claim before the CTTT re our own cruising horror story but that's for another time.

 

 

I would also tell you (tho' I'm not had any legal training) that their contract or Terms and Conditions do not over ride any legislation that I'm aware of. A court or a tribunal (administrative or consumer) could and indeed has awarded compensation to Australians on river cruises in Europe who have not received what they paid for or who were misled etc etc.

 

Again I am sorry that Evergreen / Scenic Tours have not cleaned up their act re: customer service since our first and last tour with them in 2004. Seems that nothing has changed ... why would anyone want to book with them again after reading about your story is beyond me.

 

And finally, having a TA can help in some situations but I doubt it would have made a scrap of difference to yours ... mine didn't that's for sure.

 

Keep us posted please.

 

Cheers

.

[Marty156]

Marty

 

just found your post and first of all, I have to say I have a lot of empathy for you and anyone whose holidays do not live up to expectations.

<snip>

But what was within your tour company's control was cancellation which IMO should have happened.

<snip>

I would also tell you (tho' I'm not had any legal training) that their contract or Terms and Conditions do not over ride any legislation that I'm aware of. A court or a tribunal (administrative or consumer) could and indeed has awarded compensation to Australians on river cruises in Europe who have not received what they paid for or who were misled etc etc.

<snip>

.

 

Hi Dougo in OZ

Firstly thank you for your kind words and encouragement.

Interesting to see that they have been in Court before and lost!

 

We did not use a TA, so in fact they are offering us part of what they would have paid as a commission!

 

We will certainly continue onwards, and if (as we believe) the Courts decide in our favour, then this will open the flood gates (Pun intended) to many hundreds of others that were in the "same boat" (or pehaps one of the other ships!)

 

Thank you very much for your empathy and encouragement!

 

Marty156

[dougo in oz]

I've just been reading a thread on another forum with lots of unhappy customers of Scenic Tours of which Evergreen is an affiliate.

 

Seems that back in July those "cruisers" or should I say "coach" trippers, were offered $500 back and a $1,000 off a future cruise in Europe.

 

IMO that's insulting and a ruse because I doubt that many of these disgruntled passengers would want to cough up several thousand dollars to this company again ... so the $1,000 off the future cruise is a win-win for Scenic especially if no-one takes up their offer !

 

And if someone did take up that offer, I wouldn't be surprised if they were limited with choices for times they could travel and use that "compensation".

[Pushka]

This sounds like an awful experience and I have noted the company as they are doing a lot of advertising in Australia right now. When everything has been done so badly then I understand that you could find nothing to like about this trip.

 

It wasn't the natural disaster that created this awful situation for you, it was the dreadful way in which it was managed by this company, just so they could avoid canceling the cruise. Illegal? Probably not, sadly. Unethical? Yes. In the extreme.

 

We would have refused to go on the cruise after the first couple of days. They've lost me as a future cruiser. Just until I read this thread today I was looking at them for a future trip.

[peterdkiwi]

Good luck Marty 156 in recovering costs etc.

I have read all these Threads related to flooding and refunds or lack of. We have just come back from one Avalon Cruise (our first River cruise) It was fantastic and faultless, we have already booked another for 2014. I am also very vocal on things that go wrong and I have commented on many forums about Viking & Scenic poor performance and have also spoken to many many friends that are considering river cruise and advise which companies not to consider, my contacts are in many cities both in NZ & Australia, even travel agents if both countries were very keen to hear about the issues. (surprising how many TA's didn't know much about refund issues)

Pass the word on about these poorly run companies.

[Emma Chisit]

They've lost me as a future cruiser.

 

Me too ....and I suspect many others who read this thread but have not posted. If you do not have confidence that a tour operator will do the right thing when a problem arises then you go elsewhere. Unless you want to gamble...

[dougo in oz]

If it's not bad enough that travel agencies (which includes companies such as we are talking about in this thread) fail to do the right thing under current legislation, it will no doubt be worse when everything is unravelled and there is no Travel Compensation Fund and there is no more licensing of Travel Agents in Australia and there is self regulation :eek:

 

I refer to The National Travel Reform. Have a look at the "FAQs for Travel Agents" in this link under Australian Consumer Law

 

http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/Content.aspx?doc=travel/Travel_faq.htm

 

And speaking of Australian Consumer Law, recently it has come to my attention due to a case before the NSW CTTT, that they do not have the authority to hear any Claims about airlines and cruise ships - apart from those in rivers such as the Murray River and where the contract was made in NSW. I suspect that other State's and Territories consumer type Tribunal's will follow suit if they haven't already done so.

 

http://www.cttt.nsw.gov.au/Divisions/General.html

 

.

[Marty156]

More people are voicing their complaints about the behaviour of Scenic Tours

http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/ShowTopic-g1-i10703-k5487168-o70-Scenic_Cruises_European_River_Cruise-Cruises.html#52728649

[Smokeyham]

Just wanted to say thanks for posting the information. If Scenic/Evergreen is looking to expand to the American market, then I know to avoid them.

 

What is so unfortunate is that they did not give you the option of cancelling.

 

Seems that they could have said that they were officially cancelling the cruise, to allow those whose insurance would cover such situations to move on, and then said that anyone who wanted to stay for the alternative version of the trip could do so.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

Sorry u had a bad cruise...

[TeaBag]

More people are voicing their complaints about the behaviour of Scenic Tours

http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/ShowTopic-g1-i10703-k5487168-o70-Scenic_Cruises_European_River_Cruise-Cruises.html#52728649

Marty, first of all let me thank you for posting your review of that unfortunate river cruise/bus trip with Scenic. Secondly let me say that I am very sorry that your anticipated trip was such a disappointment.

 

I can't believe how timely this is. We attended a presentation by Scenic just yesterday and we were very impressed with the product. We were even thinking we might just sign up for their cruise from Budapest to Amsterdam for 2015 even though it is a lot of money! Well, your post has put an end to this dream. Thank you again.

[Host Jazzbeau]

I can't believe how timely this is. We attended a presentation by Scenic just yesterday and we were very impressed with the product. We were even thinking we might just sign up for their cruise from Budapest to Amsterdam for 2015 even though it is a lot of money! Well, your post has put an end to this dream. Thank you again.

 

Take a look at AmaWaterways. They deliver what Scenic promises.

[franski]

Take a look at AmaWaterways. They deliver what Scenic promises.

.

 

I still think that a number of factors ultimately can affect the final product.... Many very happy AMA travellers here, but our AMA cruise wasn't our best. Wait staff indifferent, CD also indifferent. Food OK - but not particularly memorable.

 

I am thinking (just my opinion here) that the service component for the river cruise market is struggling to keep up. With all of the new ships, the companies are fighting over the seasoned staff. Great for the staff, not as much so for those of us traveling with the inexperienced staff.

Edited September 20, 2013 by franski

[TeaBag]

Take a look at AmaWaterways. They deliver what Scenic promises.

Thank you. I was just reading about them.

[TeaBag]

I just found your review on Ama, jazzbeau and enjoyed reading it. It seems you are a Celebrity fan, as are we, so we will focus on your recommendation since it looks like we like the same cruises.

[Marty156]

Marty, first of all let me thank you for posting your review of that unfortunate river cruise/bus trip with Scenic. Secondly let me say that I am very sorry that your anticipated trip was such a disappointment.

 

I can't believe how timely this is. We attended a presentation by Scenic just yesterday and we were very impressed with the product. We were even thinking we might just sign up for their cruise from Budapest to Amsterdam for 2015 even though it is a lot of money! Well, your post has put an end to this dream. Thank you again.

 

Hi YVR cruiser,

Glad to have been able warn you and others.

'tis a pity I did not place the names of Scenic or Evergreen in the original header!

I'm sure your trip will be a memorable one, in much better and happier circumstances. Enjoy the trip!

[Yggdrasil98]

.

 

I still think that a number of factors ultimately can affect the final product.... Many very happy AMA travellers here, but our AMA cruise wasn't our best. Wait staff indifferent, CD also indifferent. Food OK - but not particularly memorable.

 

I am thinking (just my opinion here) that the service component for the river cruise market is struggling to keep up. With all of the new ships, the companies are fighting over the seasoned staff. Great for the staff, not as much so for those of us traveling with the inexperienced staff.

 

Take a look at AmaWaterways. They deliver what Scenic promises. __________________

 

Yes indeed we are very very unhappy AMA/APT customers. Ours was appalling and we received (the entire passenger list) cash in the hand, plus 50% off the next cruise. More than many received from the more recent floods. However, they treated us shabbily, they also did many things that Marty experienced. After we recoup the offer, we'll never sail with them again, n o t e v e r.

 

I have two more bookings in place for River cruises apart from the replacement cruise, both with Uniworld, who I currently have nothing but praise for their handling of difficult situations. They gained more business due to their "will fix this" attitude and helpfulness. Nobody is perfect, and i still continue to sail with a company who sometimes has some small ship issues, but other things make up for some of that stuff. But yes, like all Australians it costs us lot of $ to get to Europe, and if you upgrade to business, that's never recovered as many on our cruise discovered. You still need to get back to Europe to make good a "redo" of that itinerary.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Yggdrasil98