Europe River Cruising WORST EVER company

[Marty156]

Marty: Thanks for the very interesting and revealing review as well! Just some background information:

 

On the Amadeus Silver: As far as I have seen they do have "real" balconies, the other Lüftner ships (Brilliant, Classic..) just have french balconies. Just checked my database - the first four rooms on the top deck close to the center do have real balconies.

 

Yes, but they are not called "Cabins", the ones with real balconies are the "Suites", (and are significantly dearer, just like that (dare I say it?) that freeloader agent had.

Interesting to see that the actual Trip Documents specify that one has booked cabin with a "balcony".

 

Many an unsuspecting guest complained about that when we eventually boarded the ship - and they were informed that it IS a balcony -albeit a Fench one!

Edited August 7, 2013 by Marty156

[Marty156]

The sound of the replies from Scenic defending itself is deafening .

 

We note that the amount of advertising that this company does probably keeps The tv companies in Australia afloat and goes to explain their higher prices and refusal to cancel the cruises during the European floods, possibly a cash flow problem might have ensued if they had cancelled at their expense.

 

I don't share that view. If they HAD cancelled (having already received their $$ months before) they could have declared a Force Majeure and then our travel insurance would have covered it.

 

As per their policy:

1. Cancellation & Alteration

 

If, as a result of an Unexpected Event, You have to cancel or alter Your Journey prior to departing Australia, We will reimburse You the lower of either:

 

(a) the total value of Your Actual and Reasonable additional alteration costs; or

(b) the total value of Your unused, prepaid costs.

 

 

And their definition of the Unexpected Event from the insurance wording:

 

‘Unexpected Event’: a cause or event that occurs during Your Period of Insurance that:

(a) was sudden, unforeseeable or unintended; and

(b) was outside of Your control; and

© could not reasonably have been anticipated or avoided.

So Scenic had NOTHING to loose and a lot of goodwill to gain!

Edited August 7, 2013 by Marty156

[Mark_T]

Just because the insurance pays out to you, doesn't mean that they don't go after Scenic to cover what they paid out.

 

The way things have been described I would have thought there was a strong reason to go after Scenic through legal means. Not sure how strong consumer protection laws are in Australia, but anyone in the UK would have a pretty easy case to make for compensation ...

[Marty156]

Just because the insurance pays out to you, doesn't mean that they don't go after Scenic to cover what they paid out.

 

The way things have been described I would have thought there was a strong reason to go after Scenic through legal means. Not sure how strong consumer protection laws are in Australia, but anyone in the UK would have a pretty easy case to make for compensation ...

 

Am going through that process at the moment, so won't comment on that now.

[kazu]

WOW - this is one of my fears of river cruising. And you are right - Scenic advertises heavily in Canada!

 

If I were in your shoes, I would take this to the Conde Nast ombudsman - they might be able to do something for you and, at the very least this horrific story will reach others.

 

Just not right - thanks for sharing your awful experiences - at least people who read here are warned.

 

Words can't express how badly I feel for you.

[Yggdrasil98]

Marty, you have ALL my sympathy. We did this itinerary, sorry non-cruise itinerary 7 months ago. We were 5 days at Deggendorf at Christmas time, but with APT, who we will NEVER book a paid trip with again. So much of your description applies to our trip, but at least we received 50% plus $500 back. It was a cack-handled non-cruise too for most of it, but the flooding was minor in comparison to your time.

 

Same non-truth's and we had the most appalling food, a platinum experience for sure, and like you, they don't take into account the cost of Business class upgrades from Australia and the rest of your ruined trip on top of the actual cruise losses. It took us a week to recover physically, ruining our time in Paris after our non-cruise.

 

I truly hope one day you can book another river cruise (for me I NEVER want to see the Danube again but I am booked for France x 2) next year. It takes a long time to get past the amount of money and the appalling time, we still see red 7 months after our trip.

 

Here's our APT/AMA review for anyone else who wants to know how they handle this situation when it is not as critical as the last summer has been. Ours was mid winter/Christmas. My review is "Just unbelievably awful".

 

http://www.cruise.co.uk/cruise-reviews/apt-river-cruises/amaverde/

 

I tried to submit on this forum but I couldn't make it load, and I didn't get a response. Still happy to have it's own thread if anyone wants it.

[nana541]

Marty, you have ALL my sympathy. We did this itinerary, sorry non-cruise itinerary 7 months ago. We were 5 days at Deggendorf at Christmas time, but with APT, who we will NEVER book a paid trip with again. So much of your description applies to our trip, but at least we received 50% plus $500 back. It was a cack-handled non-cruise too for most of it, but the flooding was minor in comparison to your time.

 

Same non-truth's and we had the most appalling food, a platinum experience for sure, and like you, they don't take into account the cost of Business class upgrades from Australia and the rest of your ruined trip on top of the actual cruise losses. It took us a week to recover physically, ruining our time in Paris after our non-cruise.

 

I truly hope one day you can book another river cruise (for me I NEVER want to see the Danube again but I am booked for France x 2) next year. It takes a long time to get past the amount of money and the appalling time, we still see red 7 months after our trip.

 

Here's our APT/AMA review for anyone else who wants to know how they handle this situation when it is not as critical as the last summer has been. Ours was mid winter/Christmas. My review is "Just unbelievably awful".

 

http://www.cruise.co.uk/cruise-reviews/apt-river-cruises/amaverde/

 

I tried to submit on this forum but I couldn't make it load, and I didn't get a response. Still happy to have it's own thread if anyone wants it.

 

Would love to be able to read it.... The site us a UK site and won't load, finally after loading required registering in order to access :(

 

Wish you would post your experience on Cruise Critic.

[coolerchick]

I would also post on Tripadvisor and Yelp - I'm sure you have already. Just to get the message out there.

 

Also, email Christopher Elliott - he investigates and fights on your behalf (and is well known) travel horror stories. I would put the link here but I think that may be against the rules.

[Marty156]

Marty, you have ALL my sympathy. We did this itinerary, sorry non-cruise itinerary 7 months ago. We were 5 days at Deggendorf at Christmas time, but with APT, who we will NEVER book a paid trip with again. So much of your description applies to our trip, but at least we received 50% plus $500 back. It was a cack-handled non-cruise too for most of it, but the flooding was minor in comparison to your time.

 

Same non-truth's and we had the most appalling food, a platinum experience for sure, and like you, they don't take into account the cost of Business class upgrades from Australia and the rest of your ruined trip on top of the actual cruise losses. It took us a week to recover physically, ruining our time in Paris after our non-cruise.

 

I truly hope one day you can book another river cruise (for me I NEVER want to see the Danube again but I am booked for France x 2) next year. It takes a long time to get past the amount of money and the appalling time, we still see red 7 months after our trip.

 

 

Hi,

Interestingly, not only did you get a 50% refund (we are still at $0.00), but APT must have learned from their mistakes, as they were one of the goodies and cancelled before people even left Australia by June 6 or 7.

 

Like you, we will NEVER do another river buscruise again! Back to the big ships for us!

 

True, the food was such that several meal times I went without any at all, as there was nothing that I would eat!

[franski]

The sound of the replies from Scenic defending itself is deafening .

 

 

And yet, when Viking DOES reply/post to complaints, many here on CC complain about that as well...

 

Not sure what type of response you were thinking you would see. It is rare to have companies post here.

 

Fran

[YoHoHo]

Just because the insurance pays out to you, doesn't mean that they don't go after Scenic to cover what they paid out.

 

The way things have been described I would have thought there was a strong reason to go after Scenic through legal means. Not sure how strong consumer protection laws are in Australia, but anyone in the UK would have a pretty easy case to make for compensation ...

Am going through that process at the moment, so won't comment on that now.

 

And yet, when Viking DOES reply/post to complaints, many here on CC complain about that as well...

 

Not sure what type of response you were thinking you would see. It is rare to have companies post here.

 

Fran

 

I agree. If the OP is posting that they are taking legal/government action to get compensation then I would not expect the cruise line to respond publicly.

 

Marty156, I really do empathize. Just commenting on the possibility of a reply here on CC from the Company. From what you describe I too would be very unhappy. Appreciate this and other posts on how different companies are responding to problems that are frankly out of their control. It is not the problem but what they do about it. A true measure is not what happens when things go well but when things go bad.

Edited August 8, 2013 by YoHoHo

[Marty156]

Marty156, I really do empathize. Just commenting on the possibility of a reply here on CC from the Company.

A true measure is not what happens when things go well but when things go bad.

 

Very true. It shows the kind of mentality (read $$) they had in mind in forcing the start of a cruise that they KNEW was impossible to do, and create a PR nightmare for themselves. (I hope!)

[Nixmuts]

We sailed with Scenic on June 26 from Budapest to Amsterdam. We were fortunate to have missed the major flooding.

If you read the Terms and Conditions (which is in a hi-lighted block in my tour brochure) it says that they can change the tour due to water levels, flooding lock strikes etc. We fully understood these when we booked last year.

Scenic Cruises are all inclusive, all we had to pay for was any souvenirs that we purchased along the way. All the tours were included in the tour as was the internet. We were never charged for any drinks at any time on the ship and we had access to alcoholic drinks 24/7. There was also a mini bar in the room that was replenished every morning

Our cabin was on the middle deck and we had a full balcony that had a window that could be opened with the push of a button.

We thoroughly enjoyed our trip with Scenic and I wouldn't hesitate in sailing with them again.

It was unfortunate that some people didn't get their trip of a lifetime, but I do feel for the communities that were devastated from the floods.

[BarbaraM]

Nix, how was it you were unaffected by the flooding? Most of Scenic's ships were not where they were supposed to be, afaik, when we sailed on july1st from Budapest to Amsterdam. We boarded the Diamond although we booked the Jewel, and transferred to the Jewel 3 days later. Wasn't there a lock closure near Vienna as well? While we were waiting to board we meet folks who had just ended their trip who also endured ship swaps. You must have been very lucky to have the perfect trip.

 

If Scenic had made some type of acknowledgment that we received a trip that was less than advertised, it may have gone a long way with most of the passengers on our cruise. The lack of any communication makes me think that there is disconnect on the part of management. I doubt if there was anyone on our cruise that would book another river cruise with Scenic. Most of the first time river cruisers, as we were, will not be rushing to book another.

 

 

 

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[4774Papa]

We sailed with Scenic on June 26 from Budapest to Amsterdam. We were fortunate to have missed the major flooding.

If you read the Terms and Conditions (which is in a hi-lighted block in my tour brochure) it says that they can change the tour due to water levels, flooding lock strikes etc. We fully understood these when we booked last year.

Scenic Cruises are all inclusive, all we had to pay for was any souvenirs that we purchased along the way. All the tours were included in the tour as was the internet. We were never charged for any drinks at any time on the ship and we had access to alcoholic drinks 24/7. There was also a mini bar in the room that was replenished every morning

Our cabin was on the middle deck and we had a full balcony that had a window that could be opened with the push of a button.

We thoroughly enjoyed our trip with Scenic and I wouldn't hesitate in sailing with them again.

It was unfortunate that some people didn't get their trip of a lifetime, but I do feel for the communities that were devastated from the floods.

I suspect that the contract terms would call for some changes in the tour due to flooding, etc. However, when the entire tour is morphed into a bus tour, the tour becomes something never intended as a river cruise.

[Evil Jock]

Marty - what a trip & I cannot understand how you or some of your fellow pax managed to keep your hands off 'that woman's' throat. You know in six month's time you will still not be able to laugh about it! We will never be travelling with Scenic & I think after what you have reported they may not be around for much longer anyway.

[rmhend]

Our sympathy with your plight goes out to you with an 'it could have been us'. We were on the Rhone/Saone early July, but the floods had receded and the weather was supburb. We would hope that our cruise line, Grand Circle Travel (GCT.com) was more helpful to those on their boats that were tied up a few weeks earlier. We've loved the genuine GCT interest in the traveller, the enthusiasm with the trip, the most complete learning experiences, and dining pleasures, and overall professionalism.

[euro cruiser]

It sounds like some posters here may have traveled on a traditional Scenic cruise, while others (perhaps the OP?) may have been on a charter. What is included on a charter cruise is often different from a standard one; for example, while on a standard Scenic cruise all drinks and tips are included in the fare this is not necessarily true for a charter cruise (even though it's the same boat, same crew, etc.). This is one way that travel agencies are able to offer lower priced river cruise packages - they charter the boat, reduce the included amenities, and often run a slightly shorter cruise (7 days, vs. Scenic's typical 8 - 15 day cruises).

[Marty156]

It sounds like some posters here may have traveled on a traditional Scenic cruise, while others (perhaps the OP?) may have been on a charter. What is included on a charter cruise is often different from a standard one; for example, while on a standard Scenic cruise all drinks and tips are included in the fare this is not necessarily true for a charter cruise (even though it's the same boat, same crew, etc.).

 

Not a charter.

Evergreen Tours is a subsidiary of Scenic Tours, the (slightly) lower cost version. It does not include all the tours (optional) and does not include all drinks (except at dinner). They do not own the ships, but lease them from Luftner.

 

We wanted a River CRUISE, not side trips to lots of places, as that had been done before. What we (mistakenly perhaps) thought we booked was a 14 night/15 day CRUISE with only unpacking once.

 

What we received was most unethical but yet perhaps 'legal' according to the company. It is for a Court to decide if a "Cruise" is defined the same way as a "Trip" on a bus!

 

Interestingly, all information regarding river conditions were witheld from us, only untruths and 'false flags' were offered.

 

Even emails fom a prospective client -and I quote,

"My main concern would be that if flooding occurs and a boat cannot be used, can I have the option of transferring to a future departure?", was responded to by the company in an email and again I quote,

 

"You would have that option available under the circumstances if your itinerary was to be changed to coach touring."

 

Kind regards,

<name removed> Reservations Consultant

Scenic & Evergreen Tours | Level 2, 11 Brown St | Newcastle, NSW 2300 | Australia

xxxxx @scenictours.com

scenictours.com.au||evergreentours

Edited August 8, 2013 by Marty156

[Marty156]

Marty - what a trip & I cannot understand how you or some of your fellow pax managed to keep your hands off 'that woman's' throat. You know in six month's time you will still not be able to laugh about it! We will never be travelling with Scenic & I think after what you have reported they may not be around for much longer anyway.

 

Hi Evil Jock,

Thank you for the comment, it brought a sorely needed smile to my face! There were some other names give to 'that woman', but as this is a family forum 'nuff said!

[Nixmuts]

Barbara, yes we were affected in a way, but not as much as the previous tours.

We were scheduled to sail on the Pearl, but ended up sailing on the Crystal. We were on her until day 12 and they swapped us onto the Ruby while we were at Marksburg Castle. The Crystal then sailed to Basel.

It was an inconvenience, but with what others before us had been through, it was nothing in comparison.

We did find tho, the morale on the Ruby (crew) was down and we put it down to them having to do shuttle runs back and forth to Amsterdam to try and get the boats in the right position.

The lock near Vienna opened 2 days before we got there, so we had no lock problems at all.

We were very lucky on our trip, and were lucky to have only be inconvenienced by swapping ships the once.

[NLH Arizona]

I think as travelers, everyone would agree that things do go wrong and we suck it up and go with it. But what bothers me, is the continual lying to the passengers that happened on this trip. That is the major reason why I wouldn't use this company ever.

[Nixmuts]

From the brochure

 

Tour Variations

 

(g) we may substitute (at the nearest reasonable standard) another vessel or motor coach for all or part of the itinerary and also provide alternative accommodation, where necessary.

(h) Where We make a variation to the Itinerary, We Are not liable to You for such variations

 

So, this covers their butt I suppose.

[MMDown Under]

From the brochure

 

Tour Variations

 

(g) we may substitute (at the nearest reasonable standard) another vessel or motor coach for all or part of the itinerary and also provide alternative accommodation, where necessary.

(h) Where We make a variation to the Itinerary, We Are not liable to You for such variations

 

So, this covers their butt I suppose.

 

Thanks for providing the fine print.

 

Who would agree to go on an expensive river cruise knowing that the ship could be substituted for a coach for all of the itinerary?

[Mark_T]

From the brochure

 

Tour Variations

 

(g) we may substitute (at the nearest reasonable standard) another vessel or motor coach for all or part of the itinerary and also provide alternative accommodation, where necessary.

(h) Where We make a variation to the Itinerary, We Are not liable to You for such variations

 

So, this covers their butt I suppose.

 

Not really.

 

They can put what they like in the contract terms but that doesn't mean they will stand up in court.

 

It all depends on local consumer law of course, but terms that allow a completely different holiday to be delivered without compensation are often considered 'unfair' and hence not enforceable.