New p&o your thoughts survey

[Dreamgirl1957]

Sorry can you define "So many people" on our last cruise it was mentioned once. And that was someone on our table. The captain mentioned it and it got a good laugh from the assembled masses.

 

The discounts. The only people hurt were the TA's who had not given discounts in the past and had kept all of the 15%. The good TA's gave back 10% to the customer thereby keeping the 5% which was left. This is the 5% that they get know. So for the 'good' TA's no change at all and the customer gets the discount. If they give the TA's the 15% again all fares will have to go up by 10% to cover.

 

So you are asking for fares to go up by 10%.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

 

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Sorry but you are very wrong.

When ta's earnt 15% (like they still do with most other lines) they could discount when asked to. You can't say they are not a good ta because they don't offer 10%off to everyone! Quite simply if they did their doors would be closed very soon.

 

Out of 5% commission approx 3.5% is needed to cover admin/running costs. Would you expect tesco offer a third of their profit on every item to every customer, again doors would soon be closed.

 

The ta's need to make a profit to survive, I did the job for a few years so do know from the "inside" .

Yes of course some offer discount up front, we always looked after our regular customers but as we knew all too well we were not a charity and no profit = no jobs. 5% is no where near enough profit if that's all you get on every booking.

On a bigger sale of course we often gave 10% to get the sale but that's only as we didn't have to lose so much on every booking.

 

I booked my vantage fare with Bolsover last week as although same cost as booking direct it all helps keep the ta's afloat but I think p&o got it badly wrong when they changed things, far too many people holding out for getaways is leaving ships half empty and too many cheap deals which has now got such a dead cert it's all got out of control.

 

As for you saying very few complain I think they do, both on here, Facebook and amongst friends I've heard some very sad tales of people booking early to find others on same cruise who paid half and in some cases less than half they did, compound that with the late bookers getting a better cabin than the early bookers it's a dreadful situation.

 

In the past ta's sold far more p&o , ships filled up steadily , only a few late deals so fair enough if someone wanted to risk and wait, no one was really worried as because you couldn't guarantee a really cheap late deal good luck to those who waited , the majority didn't as they could book early with the confidence over half the ship wouldn't be paying half they had so it was all much fairer . Also by booking early you could ring round and haggle with the ta's which is half the fun, not many ta's would discount on the old late deals as they were often not high value etc...

[daiB]

Sorry but you are very wrong.

When ta's earnt 15% (like they still do with most other lines) they could discount when asked to. You can't say they are not a good ta because they don't offer 10%off to everyone! Quite simply if they did their doors would be closed very soon.

 

Out of 5% commission approx 3.5% is needed to cover admin/running costs. Would you expect tesco offer a third of their profit on every item to every customer, again doors would soon be closed.

 

The ta's need to make a profit to survive, I did the job for a few years so do know from the "inside" .

Yes of course some offer discount up front, we always looked after our regular customers but as we knew all too well we were not a charity and no profit = no jobs. 5% is no where near enough profit if that's all you get on every booking.

On a bigger sale of course we often gave 10% to get the sale but that's only as we didn't have to lose so much on every booking.

 

I booked my vantage fare with Bolsover last week as although same cost as booking direct it all helps keep the ta's afloat but I think p&o got it badly wrong when they changed things, far too many people holding out for getaways is leaving ships half empty and too many cheap deals which has now got such a dead cert it's all got out of control.

 

As for you saying very few complain I think they do, both on here, Facebook and amongst friends I've heard some very sad tales of people booking early to find others on same cruise who paid half and in some cases less than half they did, compound that with the late bookers getting a better cabin than the early bookers it's a dreadful situation.

 

In the past ta's sold far more p&o , ships filled up steadily , only a few late deals so fair enough if someone wanted to risk and wait, no one was really worried as because you couldn't guarantee a really cheap late deal good luck to those who waited , the majority didn't as they could book early with the confidence over half the ship wouldn't be paying half they had so it was all much fairer . Also by booking early you could ring round and haggle with the ta's which is half the fun, not many ta's would discount on the old late deals as they were often not high value etc...

 

So are you saying that some TA's can give to all clients and some to none? When this was in existing I would ring round 5/6 TA' for a quote and get within a £ or two the same price ie with 10% off. So the high street TA's only gave the discount if you asked so they kept the full discount if you did not ask.

 

I agree that on the Internet the fare structure gets a good bashing, but that is only the Internet and only. Small % of all cruisers post or read any of the boards or Facebook. When you are on the ship it is not a major concern. I doubt if there are more than 10000 people read the Internet and a much smaller group who post. Less than a thousand would be quite close. P&O have over 300,000 cruisers every year. So one in thirty look and one in three hundred post.

 

Also looking at the boards as I do it is the same people who do the moaning.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

 

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[Midsomer Madness]

Dai! Those rose tinted specs of yours should be taken off occasionally!

 

Carnival have got it wrong at the moment, if they don't do something nobody, except yourself, will book early...

 

They should reward those who book early, not punish them by bringing in getaway fares which now often come with pay inside get a balcony or OBC offers, which according to Carnival ( as it covers both p&o and Cunard and both are as bad at the moment) you only get if you book vantage. They keep moving the,goal posts and they will alienate a lot of their loyal customers if they aren't carful.

[Dreamgirl1957]

So are you saying that some TA's can give to all clients and some to none? When this was in existing I would ring round 5/6 TA' for a quote and get within a £ or two the same price ie with 10% off. So the high street TA's only gave the discount if you asked so they kept the full discount if you did not ask.

 

I agree that on the Internet the fare structure gets a good bashing, but that is only the Internet and only. Small % of all cruisers post or read any of the boards or Facebook. When you are on the ship it is not a major concern. I doubt if there are more than 10000 people read the Internet and a much smaller group who post. Less than a thousand would be quite close. P&O have over 300,000 cruisers every year. So one in thirty look and one in three hundred post.

 

Also looking at the boards as I do it is the same people who do the moaning.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

 

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I don't think people are moaning , that's unfair. People are upset and rightly so.

As for the ta's as I've said they are a business , when they were on 15% if you rung round chances are most would knock off 10% , they did this to get your booking. Like I explained they don't give their much needed profit away willy nilly if people don't ask for discount it's often not given, same as any other business . If you are a regular customer it may be offered , the amount of discount depends on the booking. If you ask you will get a discount if it's possible , as it is now of course it isn't possible on po bookings.

 

To think it was everyones right to get 10%off when the agents would have only been left with 5% on every booking is again wrong , as I've tried to say they are not a charity, if they don't earn they can't stay open , it's that simple.

We often had people being quite stroppy asking for more than 10% saying we should be grateful for their business but what other type of shop would work for nothing. If a ta doesn't make a profit how do they pay rent, running costs, wages etc etc Everything's been cut to the bone for the ta's it's not at all like it was even ten years ago, they are all struggling.

 

I think there's far more people upset with the current situation than you think, according to p&o there is anyway. The girl I spoke to there said its a huge problem and that they had never in their history had so many complaints and disgruntled customers. She said it's being treated very seriously.

[Dreamgirl1957]

Dai! Those rose tinted specs of yours should be taken off occasionally!

 

Carnival have got it wrong at the moment, if they don't do something nobody, except yourself, will book early...

 

They should reward those who book early, not punish them by bringing in getaway fares which now often come with pay inside get a balcony or OBC offers, which according to Carnival ( as it covers both p&o and Cunard and both are as bad at the moment) you only get if you book vantage. They keep moving the,goal posts and they will alienate a lot of their loyal customers if they aren't carful.

 

 

Completely agree , well put. It needs sorting and needs to be very quickly.

 

I think they will completely change things when the new brochures come out in April and I hope the late deals with their cheap prices are as they should be, book late and take the inferior cabins, dining options etc etc as you are paying less than the ones who booked early . If someone can only book late but wants the early perks then a supplement could be added to bring in line with original fares. Everyone should get the correct value for what they have paid.

[kevinyork]

Yes they were swamped with complaints. The Loyalty manager told me on board. However, this new stuff sounds extremely complicated?

 

I agree. Sounds like making a bad situation worse. 'People are unhappy about the Vantage Fare/Getaway Fare debacle......I know, lets introduce another in-between fare to complicate things even more'. This will just create more unhappiness amongst passengers as they compare what they paid and what they got. P&O, stop meddling!

[daiB]

I don't think people are moaning , that's unfair. People are upset and rightly so.

As for the ta's as I've said they are a business , when they were on 15% if you rung round chances are most would knock off 10% , they did this to get your booking. Like I explained they don't give their much needed profit away willy nilly if people don't ask for discount it's often not given, same as any other business . If you are a regular customer it may be offered , the amount of discount depends on the booking. If you ask you will get a discount if it's possible , as it is now of course it isn't possible on po bookings.

 

To think it was everyones right to get 10%off when the agents would have only been left with 5% on every booking is again wrong , as I've tried to say they are not a charity, if they don't earn they can't stay open , it's that simple.

We often had people being quite stroppy asking for more than 10% saying we should be grateful for their business but what other type of shop would work for nothing. If a ta doesn't make a profit how do they pay rent, running costs, wages etc etc Everything's been cut to the bone for the ta's it's not at all like it was even ten years ago, they are all struggling.

 

I think there's far more people upset with the current situation than you think, according to p&o there is anyway. The girl I spoke to there said its a huge problem and that they had never in their history had so many complaints and disgruntled customers. She said it's being treated very seriously.

 

What I do not understand is that deep discounting has been there for years and is done by all cruise lines. In some cases up to 85% discount being offered within a few weeks of departure. If you remember people have been moaning about this for a number of years long before Getaway fares. That's why Vantage/Getaway was brought in.

 

I have to book on day one I know people pay less later I have known that for more than 10 years. I also know that for a number of cruises I have been on if we had not booked early we would not have cruised.

 

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

 

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[Midsomer Madness]

Dai, that's when the really good discounts should be given, when it's just a few weeks before the cruise sails...not 6-8 months before...it's silly.

 

I appreciate you have to book early,I also think it's unfair you can't book a normal balcony cabin on Azura or Ventura...so you never get the chance to take advantage anyway..

 

They need to rethink and get it right next time...

[jeanlyon]

I can tell you that there were very many people on board Oriana who were very unhappy about the Vantage Getaway situation. And more than one staff member said that Corporate had got it very wrong.

 

P*O are already giving Getaway fares for next April!! This is because they have not got enough early bookings and are having to reduce fares drastically to get people to book.

[Dreamgirl1957]

I agree. Sounds like making a bad situation worse. 'People are unhappy about the Vantage Fare/Getaway Fare debacle......I know, lets introduce another in-between fare to complicate things even more'. This will just create more unhappiness amongst passengers as they compare what they paid and what they got. P&O, stop meddling!

 

Yes , they should just go back t the old ways, it wasn't broke why did they try to fix it.

 

Everyone was happy, ta's earned more so could discount, most people booked earlier , not so many late deals so people got booked , got what they wanted and didn't feel ripped off by a ship load of late bookers with better cabins for a pittance as there just weren't so many late deals available.

 

If it's going to be another complicated two or three tier system it won't work I don't think , plain and simple works best..

 

My guess is that when they reduced ta commissions and then obviously ta's stopped selling their cruises in favour of ones where they could make a profit on that carnival took on more uk in-house sales staff as they thought all bookings would go direct to them as ta's couldn't discount. I had an email last week from a girl at p&o , she said she was my personal point of contact etc ...basically they are having to do the hard sell to try and fill the ships and give these staff something to do. Taken on to handle all the vantage bookings that trailed off when everyone realised what a certainty a giveaway getaway was !!

[Dreamgirl1957]

What I do not understand is that deep discounting has been there for years and is done by all cruise lines. In some cases up to 85% discount being offered within a few weeks of departure. If you remember people have been moaning about this for a number of years long before Getaway fares. That's why Vantage/Getaway was brought in.

 

I have to book on day one I know people pay less later I have known that for more than 10 years. I also know that for a number of cruises I have been on if we had not booked early we would not have cruised.

 

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

 

Hi gan canny, the big difference is yes there have always been a few late cabins on any ship they nearly give away, about 5-10% and if you got a good late deal it was great but there were never ever too many. Not many would risk the wait .

 

Now it's a dead cert half the ship won't have sold as everyone has cottoned on to these getaway deals so wait. They should never had made them so available on every cruise, they cut their own throat I'm afraid.

[kevinyork]

Having tried Celebrity this year, we managed to get a great deal 7 weeks before sailing. The price we paid lasted a few days then went sky high. Ive looked at a few other Celebrity cruise prices and (this isnt scientific) it seems the cruises I look at tend to go up in price nearer to departure. Clearly different cruise lines have different approaches but surely there must be a pricing plan that works best across the board?

 

I remember looking at land based holidays years ago. At the point we decided to book a holiday we would research a deal and book the one we decided upon. We never thought that it may be higher or lower than others had paid, we just thought about the value for money on offer at the time we wanted to book compared to other holidays on offer. In other words pricing was fluid dependant on supply and demand. Why cant P&O offer the same?

[Dreamgirl1957]

Having tried Celebrity this year, we managed to get a great deal 7 weeks before sailing. The price we paid lasted a few days then went sky high. Ive looked at a few other Celebrity cruise prices and (this isnt scientific) it seems the cruises I look at tend to go up in price nearer to departure. Clearly different cruise lines have different approaches but surely there must be a pricing plan that works best across the board?

 

I remember looking at land based holidays years ago. At the point we decided to book a holiday we would research a deal and book the one we decided upon. We never thought that it may be higher or lower than others had paid, we just thought about the value for money on offer at the time we wanted to book compared to other holidays on offer. In other words pricing was fluid dependant on supply and demand. Why cant P&O offer the same?

 

 

 

They shouldn't make the getaways so cheap so soon, your right.

 

 

They just leave themselves wide open to people just waiting for a getaway, they have not created any urgency for people to book , if prices kept changing there would be more need to book when you saw an opportunity, as it is they are handing these cheap deals out on a plate !!

[daiB]

They shouldn't make the getaways so cheap so soon, your right.

 

 

They just leave themselves wide open to people just waiting for a getaway, they have not created any urgency for people to book , if prices kept changing there would be more need to book when you saw an opportunity, as it is they are handing these cheap deals out on a plate !!

 

Well they seem to have sorted this if you look at the Getaways post Christmas. They are all around 10%. With some much less. This seems about right to me.

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[Dreamgirl1957]

Well they seem to have sorted this if you look at the Getaways post Christmas. They are all around 10%. With some much less. This seems about right to me.

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

 

Oh that sounds good, do you mean 10% cheaper than vantage ???

If so I agree seems about right , much better

[jeanlyon]

and some are nearly 40% less!

[cruisebore]

We received an email last week offering 14 day Ventura and Azura Transatlantic Caribbean cruises for £599 only £30 more than a return flight. I know that there is a following for these cruises with many booking as soon as the brochure becomes available..wonder what chance of an upgrade for them.. Also friends have just booked Azura for Xmas. Knock down price and anytime dining still available; methinks they still have many more cabins to fill.

 

 

Cb

[daiB]

Oh that sounds good, do you mean 10% cheaper than vantage ???

If so I agree seems about right , much better

 

Yes, I thought it odd when I looked at a couple of cruises we my consider only to find the discounts were quite small so I looked at some more and it appears to be across the board. That does not mean however they will not go down nearer to sailing.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

 

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[daiB]

and some are nearly 40% less!

 

After Christmas and the new year?

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

 

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[Wiltonian]

After Christmas and the New Year?

 

Just the odd one;

Soton to SF, 4th January 2014.

 

Stuart

[Wiltonian]

Just the odd one;

Soton to SF, 4th January 2014.

 

Stuart

and HK-Soton, 14th March, balconies.

 

Many others are 15% ish.

 

Stuart

[Dreamgirl1957]

Yes, I thought it odd when I looked at a couple of cruises we my consider only to find the discounts were quite small so I looked at some more and it appears to be across the board. That does not mean however they will not go down nearer to sailing.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

 

They could be trying out new ways to price before they change things, I would think April will see a big change, let's hope it's all well thought out and fair for everyone

[Scriv]

Staff member on Oriana told me that one Fjords cruise went with over 1200 Getaways. Out of 1800 passengers that is a big fat loss.

 

I bet this was my cruise earlier in the year! It certainly felt like it at the time I can tell you!

[simonpjd]

Well here are my thoughts for what they are worth.

Having read countless postings regarding this over the last couple of years, it seems to me that the main grouch with Getaways is that

1 they are offered too early - I think we expect this type of discount 'close to sailing' but they are routinely offered 6 months+ early. This seems mainly so P&O NEVER have to reduce the Vantage fare which would cost them potentially quite a lot. and

2 the Getaway passengers seemed to get all the upgrades available in front of Vantage fare payers.

 

This new 3 tier system seems to tick most of the boxes.

Early bookers get all the current Vantage fare promises AND are then top of the list for upgrades etc.

Middle bookers still get a good deal and are ahead of the late bookers for upgrades.

And the equivalent of the Getaway booker still gets the cheap fares but basically no more. Which is as it should be. They are there to fill the ship.

Lets hope P&O stay true to this and only make the third tier available within 90 days from sailing.

 

BTW does this mean the Vantage fare price promise has been consigned to the bin.

[Brayman]

Well here are my thoughts for what they are worth.

Having read countless postings regarding this over the last couple of years, it seems to me that the main grouch with Getaways is that

1 they are offered too early - I think we expect this type of discount 'close to sailing' but they are routinely offered 6 months+ early. This seems mainly so P&O NEVER have to reduce the Vantage fare which would cost them potentially quite a lot. and

2 the Getaway passengers seemed to get all the upgrades available in front of Vantage fare payers.

 

This new 3 tier system seems to tick most of the boxes.

Early bookers get all the current Vantage fare promises AND are then top of the list for upgrades etc.

Middle bookers still get a good deal and are ahead of the late bookers for upgrades.

And the equivalent of the Getaway booker still gets the cheap fares but basically no more. Which is as it should be. They are there to fill the ship.

Lets hope P&O stay true to this and only make the third tier available within 90 days from sailing.

 

BTW does this mean the Vantage fare price promise has been consigned to the bin.

 

It's not a done deal, they are just brainstorming and seeking opinions at the moment.