Haimark and Scenic...info please??

[Islandgirl4242]

We're planning our first river cruise on the Irrawaddy/Myanmar for late 2015 and I "think" I've researched just about every river cruise line. My head is now spinning and I feel more and more confused. Today I read about a new (?) line to this market, Haimark. Has anyone heard of them? Researching the Haimark boats and itineraries I realized that Scenic lists the same boat (Irrawaddy Explorer) for 2015. From both companies online schedules (both state subject to change) it looks like they are sharing the boat, but each company has cruises scheduled different weeks. Has anyone heard of this?

 

I've been in email contact with a Scenic representative in Canada trying to get pricing in US$ for me. The US website doesn't show all of the Scenic cruises. It's been interesting trying to get the information and makes me wonder about booking with a company that has so much difficulty getting info to prospective customers. I do realize I am not the only person that he is helping. I've been in communication for over a week and still have not received any pricing. The latest was that the rep told me that no cruises are scheduled beyond Mar. '15 on the Irrawaddy. He asked how I had dates for Nov. '15. I told him it was on their website. He couldn't find the information and got back to me...I had printed the information from their online brochure. :) Yesterday I gave him the page numbers and he said he would research this and get back to me...no word yet today. I'm losing confidence and this isn't a good thing while I'm still in the booking stage.:(

~~Judy

[Marty156]

....I'm losing confidence and this isn't a good thing while I'm still in the booking stage.:(

~~Judy

 

Judy, there are MANY adverse comments about Scenic Cruises and their offshoot Evergreen on cruise critic, as well as on trip advisor.

 

Not surprised you are not getting the requested information.

 

We are still waiting or a prommised lousy $500 refund on a $20,000 cruise that ended up a bus ride.

 

Check this link

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1892421

[Host Jazzbeau]

With all due respect Marty, I just did a search and am hard pressed to find any negative posts about Scenic. Except yours, which are confusing because it appears that you may have sailed on Evergreen rather than Scenic itself. Evergreen is a budget line, so is this a case of "you get what you pay for"?

[Marty156]

Of course one expects to receive what one pays for.

 

But a refusal to cancel a risky river cruise during the biggest floods in 500+ years and substitute it with a bus is not a 'viable alternate'.

 

By not cancelling, the travel insurance industry rightly refuses to pay compensation to anyone foolish enough to have paid $16,000 for a two week cruise which was not supplied!

 

There are many additional links about the Europe river floods in 2013 and how various companies responded.

 

Here are some other links you might care to look at....Please note that some are a few years old, but are continuing -showing that Scenic has not changed their ways.

 

 

http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/ShowTopic-g1-i10703-k3727369-Scenic_Tours_European_River_Cruises-Cruises.html

 

Read the latest comments:

http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/ShowTopic-g1-i10703-k2821799-o490-Scenic_Tours_European_River_Cruise-Cruises.html

 

http://www.notgoodenough.org/viewtopic.php?t=37745

 

http://www.productreview.com.au/r/scenic-tours/460911.html

 

http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/ShowTopic-g1-i10703-k2821799-o470-Scenic_Tours_European_River_Cruise-Cruises.html#55618052

[Host Jazzbeau]

You never reply to the issue whether you sailed on Scenic or Evergreen.

[nana541]

You never reply to the issue whether you sailed on Scenic or Evergreen.

 

 

Marty sailed Evergreen, an offshoot of Scenic.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[Stratheden]

We're planning our first river cruise on the Irrawaddy/Myanmar for late 2015 and I "think" I've researched just about every river cruise line. My head is now spinning and I feel more and more confused. Today I read about a new (?) line to this market, Haimark. Has anyone heard of them? Researching the Haimark boats and itineraries I realized that Scenic lists the same boat (Irrawaddy Explorer) for 2015. From both companies online schedules (both state subject to change) it looks like they are sharing the boat, but each company has cruises scheduled different weeks. Has anyone heard of this?

 

I've been in email contact with a Scenic representative in Canada trying to get pricing in US$ for me. The US website doesn't show all of the Scenic cruises. It's been interesting trying to get the information and makes me wonder about booking with a company that has so much difficulty getting info to prospective customers. I do realize I am not the only person that he is helping. I've been in communication for over a week and still have not received any pricing. The latest was that the rep told me that no cruises are scheduled beyond Mar. '15 on the Irrawaddy. He asked how I had dates for Nov. '15. I told him it was on their website. He couldn't find the information and got back to me...I had printed the information from their online brochure. :) Yesterday I gave him the page numbers and he said he would research this and get back to me...no word yet today. I'm losing confidence and this isn't a good thing while I'm still in the booking stage.:(

~~Judy

 

Did you download the brochure from the Australian site?

There are dates for late 2015 that are subject to change in that brochure but I cannot see where on the US or Canadian site you can download the Asian Brochure. I could have missed it though. :p

[Islandgirl4242]

Did you download the brochure from the Australian site?

There are dates for late 2015 that are subject to change in that brochure but I cannot see where on the US or Canadian site you can download the Asian Brochure. I could have missed it though. :p

Yes, I did get the 2015 dates from the AUS website and you are correct, the US website doesn't have the SE Asia brochure. Hmmmm, maybe they don't want Aussies and people from the US cruising together.:rolleyes: The rep from Scenic has still not responded with the cruise rate in US$ or about the cruise dates for 2015. Not feeling all warm and fuzzy inside regarding Scenic.

 

This morning an email arrived from Haimark with information about their cruises on the Irrawaddy. I had never heard of them until last week. It really does look like they share the boat, the Irrawaddy Explorer, with Scenic. Are Haimark and Scenic under the same corporate umbrella? Reading the info there are charges we would be responsible for with no amounts listed. One is port charges. Paid in full does not guarantee we would not be charged extra fees later for fuels, additional taxes, etc.. I don't like this, but since we've only cruised previously on larger ships I'm not sure about the norm for river cruising. At least with Viking all of the charges are upfront, in writing and guaranteed not to increase after final payment is made.

 

BUT, LOL the newest brochure from Viking arrived over the week-end with their 2015 cruises and the Memories of Mandalay on the Irrawaddy is not listed.:eek:

 

The saga does seem to continue...at least we aren't trying to do this cruise in 2014!! ~~Judy

[Stratheden]

Perhaps if you scan the page from your brochure and email it to the rep. in Canada if may help. At least you know you are both on the same page.

 

I have booked a couple of Scenic tours in 2015 (not river cruises) but have only paid a holding deposit because until the actual brochure comes out for 2015 I cannot confirm that I am happy with what is being offered.

 

One of them will be different to what is in the 2014 brochure because the cruise that is part of the tour is not being offered by the cruise line in 2015.

 

The other one is different dates completely to what is in the 2014 brochure so you can only use the old brochure as a bit of a guide. (We are only doing the land based tour with Scenic and finding our own cruise).

 

Have you tried using a TA to get your quotes?

Edited April 7, 2014 by Stratheden

[Marty156]

Quick search on Internet shows:-

 

A new cruise operator, Haimark, will launch a luxury Mekong experience, starting in winter 2013-2014. The company also plans exotic voyages on the Irrawaddy River in Myanmar and the Ganges River in India.

Based in Breckenridge, CO, Haimark is a U.S. company with U.S.-based procurement and contracting. The new company’s name reflects the cruise line’s three partners. All have extensive experience in river cruising and Southeast Asia.

Well-known to agents is Tom Markwell, the former vice president of sales and marketing for Pandaw River Cruises. During Markwell’s three-year tenure at Pandaw he was responsible for contracting for three new vessels on the Mekong for Uniworld and Avalon Waterways.

In 2012, he ventured off to form Haimark with another partner, Marcus Leskovar, also formerly with Pandaw's U.S. office and with years of hotel and cruise operational experience, and Giang Hai, an experienced ground operator in Southeast Asia.

The Haimark operation now handles land arrangements for more than 4,000 people annually to Southeast Asia; that occurs through seven ground offices under Hai's direction throughout the region.

[Islandgirl4242]

Quick search on Internet shows:-

 

A new cruise operator, Haimark, will launch a luxury Mekong experience, starting in winter 2013-2014. The company also plans exotic voyages on the Irrawaddy River in Myanmar and the Ganges River in India.

Based in Breckenridge, CO, Haimark is a U.S. company with U.S.-based procurement and contracting. The new company’s name reflects the cruise line’s three partners. All have extensive experience in river cruising and Southeast Asia.

Well-known to agents is Tom Markwell, the former vice president of sales and marketing for Pandaw River Cruises. During Markwell’s three-year tenure at Pandaw he was responsible for contracting for three new vessels on the Mekong for Uniworld and Avalon Waterways.

In 2012, he ventured off to form Haimark with another partner, Marcus Leskovar, also formerly with Pandaw's U.S. office and with years of hotel and cruise operational experience, and Giang Hai, an experienced ground operator in Southeast Asia.

The Haimark operation now handles land arrangements for more than 4,000 people annually to Southeast Asia; that occurs through seven ground offices under Hai's direction throughout the region.

 

Thanks, Marty! It does appear that Scenic and Haimark are separate corporations. Scenic did get back to me regarding the Irrawaddy Explorer and they do not own the boat, only contract it for cruises. Haimark apparently uses the same boat at alternate times. It appears that there is more competition arriving for river cruises in that area...hopefully the pricing will soon reflect this. Scenic still cannot quote pricing...maybe they're planning to give me a cruise!!;) ~~Judy

[Islandgirl4242]

Perhaps if you scan the page from your brochure and email it to the rep. in Canada if may help. At least you know you are both on the same page.

 

I did provide the pages in the online brochure and the Scenic rep did reply with apologies of not being aware. I do think in this industry that it's important for representatives to be as educated as possible on what they are trying to sell to consumers and give advice on. It's disheartening for the consumer to know as much or more about the trip they are considering than the rep does.

 

You asked if I had contacted a TA. My travel planner doesn't work with Scenic...maybe that should be telling me something! ~~Judy

[Marty156]

Scenic have just lost one Court case and had to repay thousands of dollars back to one couple, due to their mis-handling of the 2013 Europe floods.

 

Many more cases are in progress.

 

Scenic and Evergreen have always leased their ships, until at least 2013.

[Stratheden]

Scenic and Evergreen have always leased their ships, until at least 2013.

 

Marty will you please make sure your facts are correct before you post them!

We know you had a bad experience last year but when we read your report you also had a bad experience on the plane and that wasn't Scenic's fault nor was it Evergreen fault.

 

Only Evergreen leased their ships until 2013 - Scenic have owned their ships for some years now.

 

Evergreen is a budget subsidiary of Scenic.

[Islandgirl4242]

 

Only Evergreen leased their ships until 2013 - Scenic have owned their ships for some years now.

 

Evergreen is a budget subsidiary of Scenic.

 

The Scenic rep verified that they don't own the Irrawaddy Explorer they use in Myanmar...it's a leased boat. Possibly they are testing the market before investing in their own boat for the Ayerwaddy.

 

The following is a cut and paste from the online brochure:

Scenic Tours’ new partnership with Haimark, a leading Asian specialist river cruise operator, will provide the most authentic luxury cruising experiences on our exclusive private charters.

~~Judy

[Host Jazzbeau]

The Scenic rep verified that they don't own the Irrawaddy Explorer they use in Myanmar...it's a leased boat. Possibly they are testing the market before investing in their own boat for the Ayerwaddy.

 

The following is a cut and paste from the online brochure:

Scenic Tours’ new partnership with Haimark, a leading Asian specialist river cruise operator, will provide the most authentic luxury cruising experiences on our exclusive private charters.

~~Judy

 

The situation in Europe (where Marty was) is different from other river cruising areas. Nobody owns their own boats in Portugal or Russia. It may be similar in Myanmar, especially in the next few years as Western cruise lines start to ramp up there. But in Europe most cruise lines do own their boats -- including Scenic. Evergreen is Scenic's budget subsidiary; they lease their boats. Emerald is Scenic's new European subsidiary; they seem to own their boats. That's why it's hard to figure out how Marty's (admittedly, clearly, egregiously) bad experience on Evergreen translates to warnings about Scenic generally.

[alexandra cruiser]

with one of US based river cruise com.like Avalon or Uniworld,etc.?Since they seem to be using similar boat,itinerary,no?

Seems like less hassle.

Nothing against Scenic,am using them for next one in fact.Also my TA hi ly recommended them.

Feel its much too complicated for you to deal with and chances of problems may arise .Seems odd your TA does not deal with Scenic,many others do.:confused:

[Islandgirl4242]

Feel its much too complicated for you to deal with and chances of problems may arise .Seems odd your TA does not deal with Scenic,many others do.:confused:

 

Actually I haven't found any cruising plans too complicated to deal with.;) We work with a top travel planning company and they, by choice, don't represent every cruise or vacation company. I know what I want before I even contact them for booking. I enjoy all of the research and on larger cruises I often arrange private tours for/with fellow cruisers. Since this is our first river cruise I want to make sure that we book with a good company...reviews seem to be quite varied concerning river cruising. And it becomes interesting in how quickly river cruise companies reply to information requests (or don't :() and also their knowledge of their product. Yes, several companies offer similar itineraries and we want to book with one that spends the most time on the river. Since we're combing this with a DIY trip in Thailand I have a lot of planning to do and for me that's all part of the adventure:D!! ~~Judy

[Canal archive]

I agree, Marty 156 please get your facts correct before posting as it does not help your credibility one little bit.

A little trolling around the internet will tell you if a company owns a ship or not, some countries don't let foreign companies own vessels sailing on their waters so they have to partner up or hire. Scenic does not offer their Asian cruises on their UK site but I would not be surprised that if I phoned their UK office that they would try to sort out something for me.

I must admit that although I sympathise with you in that you did not read the small print and did not appreciate what sounds like at least Evergreen tried to give you your holiday I am getting just a tad tired of your going on about it and blaming the parent company rather than the company that you actually paid your money to.

Hopefully you have achieved something and that is to encourage everyone to read the small print.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Canal archive

[amyr]

Hi - I don't know anything about Scenic, but I've spent quite a bit of time researching the r/v Irrawaddy Explorer and Haimark because in researching Burma cruises, I decided that might be the best ship for us.

 

Haimark is building several ships and will own them, one of them being the Irrawaddy Explorer, another for India called Ganges something (Voyager?) and one or two for the Mekong. I'm not sure whether they plan to operate the cruises themselves at some point, but for now they're chartering them out (at least in Burma), even though they have a lovely brochure on their website complete with pricing. I'm not sure about any cruises except the Burma ones, but I know that Luftner Cruises has several cruises on the ship, Vantage has several, An Australian outfit has several (is that Scenic?) and there are also a couple of private charters. I'm not sure if Luftner and Vantage have the whole ship for their dates, but I think so since they don't offer the same dates. Each company has completely different land portions and pricing - some start in Bangkok and some right in Yangon.

 

I know that AMA Waterways will be introducing the AMAPura, which is a sister ship to Irrawaddy Explorer and the other companies like Viking and Avalon are using Pandaw style ships.

 

We were hoping to go in 2015, but now it looks like 2016. Who knows what the ship situation will be by then. :confused:

[Stratheden]

This is a quote from the Scenic Website.

 

"Scenic Tours’ new partnership with Haimark, a leading Asian specialist river cruise operator, will provide the most authentic luxury cruising experiences on our exclusive private charters.

 

Our new cruising itineraries on the Mekong and Irrawaddy Rivers will reveal the hidden treasures of the people and villages that grace the river banks. Haimark is redefining the standard of luxury river cruising and, combined with the Scenic Tours commitment to all-inclusive touring, creating unforgettable experiences. This is the ultimate way to get into the heartland of South East Asia."

[Canal archive]

Well done Stratheden I remembered seeing it but could not remember where. The Asia cruises are not advertised on the UK website, I would be very interested maybe if I could persuade my other half I would phone the UK office and give it a try.

[4774Papa]

With all due respect Marty, I just did a search and am hard pressed to find any negative posts about Scenic. Except yours, which are confusing because it appears that you may have sailed on Evergreen rather than Scenic itself. Evergreen is a budget line, so is this a case of "you get what you pay for"?

Scenic was one of the firms that poorly handled the river flooding last year.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=224119

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=222885

 

http://www.travelweekly.com/River-Cruising/River-cruise-lines-lose-millions-of-dollars-to-European-flooding/

[Gasparilla]

If I were planning a trip to Myanmar, I would definitely travel with Pandaw River Cruises. We took their 7 day trip up the Mekong in Oct 2014, and we were very impressed by the itinerary, service and accommodations. They have many wonderful itineraries in Myanmar, Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos. Starting in 2015, they are adding new itineraries in India.

[deec]

We were on the Irrawaddy Explorer in December. Vantage chartered the ship thru Haimark. It was a well run lovely ship. Vantage did a good job with organizing the complete tour part and had very good guides in Bangkok, Yangon and then on the ship (we had the same guide for the entire river portion of the trip which was great for continuity from day to day).

 

My understanding is that Haimark has other ships in Mekong, Ganges and I think the Amazon. I do not know who else Haimark charters to. There was a Haimark employee (Cruise Director) on the ship who acted as co-ordinator between Vantage and the ship. Interestingly we were expected to tip him as well as the trip director from Vantage. It was a great trip.