This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[CruiseWhere]

[quote name='LMaxwell']Did they share?[/QUOTE]

[B][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Blue"]Yes with my DH a Det Sgt. and all the smoke that they could create![/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[Lizzie68]

[quote name='qsuzi'][B]Thank you so much for capturing some important points in a civil way. I recognize there are some nonsmokers who find it very difficult or impossible to be on their balcony when someone next door is on their balcony smoking. I am a non-smoker and also understand issues related to those who are life long smokers who have made multiple attempts to quit permanently. Some of these smokers have mobility issues that make it very difficult for them to go to other smoking areas frequently because of high pain levels for example. We have been fortunate in our 30 plus cruises to not have that type of smoker on our next door balcony where we needed to flee our balcony. But we may not be as sensitive to smoke as some are.[/B][/quote]

Many people have mobility issues that cause them a great deal of pain. They make adjustments in their life accordingly. My DH is one of them. So using mobility issues as an argument for smokers is something I cannot agree with. Otherwise, your post is thoughtful. Quitting is very difficult and usually there are multiple attempts before success. I know, I was a chain smoker once. However, no one is asking that smokers quit their habit in order to cruise. Just to be considerate in where they smoke.

[LindaM]

[quote name='peddieplease']C'mon, Linda. No, they probably aren't thinking that most people hate the smell. They're just enjoying the freedom. It isn't rude behavior. Can you give a little? Man, I think this is what's wrong with this world. We want to change everybody and everything around us and not give an inch. :o[/QUOTE]

Wow...I thought I WAS giving a little, by saying I tolerate the smoking. The problem is (as I see it), the smokers are not willing to compromise. You just proved my point. I am giving more than an inch, but you want it all. Cigarettes AND stinky cigars! Would you be willing at least to give up the cigars, if I don't complain about the cigarette smoke?

[peddieplease]

[quote name='sail7seas'][B] I related one of my experiences on HAL trying to get any accommodation from our smoking neighbors. :rolleyes:

[/B][/QUOTE]

I'm really saddened to hear this. I hope MOST smokers wouldn't be so difficult. Don't give up! You will most likely get good neighbors!:)

[peddieplease]

[quote name='LindaM']Wow...I thought I WAS giving a little, by saying I tolerate the smoking. The problem is (as I see it), the smokers are not willing to compromise. You just proved my point. I am giving more than an inch, but you want it all. Cigarettes AND stinky cigars! Would you be willing at least to give up the cigars, if I don't complain about the cigarette smoke?[/QUOTE]

That's very generous of you, but you haven't given an inch, exactly. In the eyes of smokers, they've given way more than in inch. They don't want it all, just a few places where they can still smoke. They recognize they can't smoke in dining areas or in their rooms or most places at all, so be realistic. And I don't smoke cigars, I was only defending their right to smoke them, in the hopes that THEY would be considerate. I'm going to say it again: If only HAL would only allow rear balconies for smoking, maybe we could resolve this. Maybe on one side of ship. Why not at least TRY this? It's not as if smokers are asking for everything, just to be allowed to enjoy their vice in a few places. Honestly, it's like a playground with kids. We've should try and get along. You have your points, and I don't dispute them. Play nice, okay?

[qsuzi]

[quote name='Lizzie68']Many people have mobility issues that cause them a great deal of pain. They make adjustments in their life accordingly. My DH is one of them. So using mobility issues as an argument for smokers is something I cannot agree with. Otherwise, your post is thoughtful. Quitting is very difficult and usually there are multiple attempts before success. I know, I was a chain smoker once. However, no one is asking that smokers quit their habit in order to cruise. Just to be considerate in where they smoke.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Blue"]I know someone personally who is a heavy smoker and is having an extremely difficult time going back and forth to smoking areas on deck to smoke. Many/most can make the adjustments necessary but not all can - this person cannot without extreme difficulty and pain. This person must lay down for hours during the day to keep their pain under control. This person is the most considerate smoker. I commend your husband and those who can and do when possible. [/COLOR] Edited December 28, 2014 by qsuzi

[peddieplease]

[quote name='qsuzi'][COLOR="Blue"]I know someone personally who is a heavy smoker and is having an extremely difficult time going back and forth to smoking areas on deck to smoke. Many/most can make the adjustments necessary but not all can - this person cannot without extreme difficulty and pain. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Am I correct in assuming this person is also willing to concede that his/her smoking might be inconveniencing their neighbor? One can smoke on a balcony and not have to do it all day long. Smokers, knowing it's an issue, should reach out to their neighbors. Yes, there will be a few who will go on about how it's their right, and it is, but if we would each just be a little more tolerant . . . That's all I ask of we smokers and non-smokers alike. We CAN cruise together in harmony. It's totally possible without all the anger! :):):)

[cruz chic]

[quote name='peddieplease']Am I correct in assuming this person is also willing to concede that his/her smoking might be inconveniencing their neighbor? One can smoke on a balcony and not have to do it all day long. Smokers, knowing it's an issue, should reach out to their neighbors. Yes, there will be a few who will go on about how it's their right, and it is, but if we would each just be a little more tolerant . . . That's all I ask of we smokers and non-smokers alike. We CAN cruise together in harmony. It's totally possible without all the anger! :):):)[/QUOTE]

Yes, there are considerate smokers. I've worked with a few. Judging from some posters on here you can pound sand if you don't like it. I have a friend that is very much her way or the highway type smoker. She expects everyone to have to deal with smoking. I rarely see her because of her attitude and we've been friends for about 40 years, since we were barely teens. I would be wonderful if all smokers were so accommodating.

[cruz chic]

[quote name='qsuzi'][COLOR="Blue"]I know someone personally who is a heavy smoker and is having an extremely difficult time going back and forth to smoking areas on deck to smoke. Many/most can make the adjustments necessary but not all can - this person cannot without extreme difficulty and pain. This person must lay down for hours during the day to keep their pain under control. This person is the most considerate smoker. I commend your husband and those who can and do when possible. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I just don't understand someone being in so much pain yet smokes like a chimney. I was a smoker for many years so it's not like I don't understand it. I'm surprised when they are in that much pain they can even make it out to the balcony.

[sail7seas]

[quote name='qsuzi'][COLOR="Blue"]I know someone personally who is a heavy smoker and is having an extremely difficult time going back and forth to smoking areas on deck to smoke. Many/most can make the adjustments necessary but not all can - this person cannot without extreme difficulty and pain. This person must lay down for hours during the day to keep their pain under control. This person is the most considerate smoker. I commend your husband and those who can and do when possible. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[quote name='peddieplease']I'm really saddened to hear this. I hope MOST smokers wouldn't be so difficult. Don't give up! You will most likely get good neighbors!:)[/QUOTE]

[B] After over 80 HAL cruises in cabins with verandahs, I have a very good idea the 'way the wind blows' with verandah smokers. Sadly, there are more smokers now on verandahs as HAL Ashtray of the Seas is about the last of the major cruise lines in North America to permit it.

[/B] Edited December 28, 2014 by sail7seas

[peddieplease]

[quote name='cruz chic']Yes, there are considerate smokers. I've worked with a few. Judging from some posters on here you can pound sand if you don't like it. I have a friend that is very much her way or the highway type smoker. She expects everyone to have to deal with smoking. I rarely see her because of her attitude and we've been friends for about 40 years, since we were barely teens. I would be wonderful if all smokers were so accommodating.[/QUOTE]

I hate to hear this. I definitely don't think people should have to "deal" with smoking. Our society has come too far for that. And quite frankly, I wish I was not one who could count herself as a smoker (I am occasional, but hubby is not). I've tried to have a live and let live attitude, but I know that's not working here. Just for once, though, I wish we could prove to HAL and it's customers that we can do this without making it more difficult for people like my hubby. I can do without, but for many it does make or break their cruise and they really just want to enjoy their balconies. In a perfect world, I'd be on all smokers' backs to tell them to be considerate. It's not a lot to ask. Anyway, happy cruising to all of you, and Happy New Year, too!

[qsuzi]

[quote name='cruz chic']I just don't understand someone being in so much pain yet smokes like a chimney. I was a smoker for many years so it's not like I don't understand it. I'm surprised when they are in that much pain they can even make it out to the balcony.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Navy"]Those I know with pain who smoke say that smoking relaxes them and that leads to decreased pain - not sure if this is true for most smokers. This person primarily smoked/s on the balcony when other cruise lines permitted it. They now cruise HAL and Princess. They use an e-cig in the cabin on Princess.[/COLOR] Edited December 28, 2014 by qsuzi

[qsuzi]

[quote name='peddieplease']Am I correct in assuming this person is also willing to concede that his/her smoking might be inconveniencing their neighbor? One can smoke on a balcony and not have to do it all day long. Smokers, knowing it's an issue, should reach out to their neighbors. Yes, there will be a few who will go on about how it's their right, and it is, but if we would each just be a little more tolerant . . . That's all I ask of we smokers and non-smokers alike. We CAN cruise together in harmony. It's totally possible without all the anger! :):):)[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Navy"]Peddie, you are correct![/COLOR]

[LMaxwell]

[quote name='peddieplease']I'm really saddened to hear this. I hope MOST smokers wouldn't be so difficult. Don't give up! You will most likely get good neighbors!:)[/QUOTE]
As it stands now all a smoker has to say is "I am allowed". There are no set hours or times. You can't count on someone else doing what you want when you want when there's no policy against it. Maybe the smokers are thinking who does this person think they are? Of all the cabins on all the smoke free balconies [other lines] I am specifically allowed this so I will do it.

That's a problem to the current policy. Each side is "politely" trying to regulate the other when the reality is one side doesn't need to make any accommodations. It's just that that lies with the minority position at present.

[LMaxwell]

[quote name='qsuzi'][COLOR="Navy"]Peddie, you are correct![/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Like I said prior I smoked for almost 20 years before quitting cold dead turkey. I will tolerate a bit of smoke. My wife is a non smoker and won't tolerate it and should not have to tolerate it. I never smoked in our home. Never smoked in her car or with her in mine. A smoker, who is not smoking at that particular moment, is not having to tolerate anything from a non smoker. Nor is that smoker being persecuted.

There is no way to convince me the current policy can satisfy both smokers and non smokers.

[sail7seas]

[quote name='LMaxwell']

<snip>


There is no way to convince me the current policy can satisfy both smokers and non smokers.[/QUOTE]

[B] Bingo. It can't.
I am one who canceled a cruise, one of HAL's most loyal cruisers, because I cannot take the risk of not having use of my verandah on what will be a difficult cruise for me,,,,,
It is not the only reason I canceled but is high on the list.

[/B]

[LMaxwell]

[quote name='sail7seas'][B] Bingo. It can't.
I am one who canceled a cruise, one of HAL's most loyal cruisers, because I cannot take the risk of not having use of my verandah on what will be a difficult cruise for me,,,,,
It is not the only reason I canceled but is high on the list.

[/B][/quote]

Every one we met that has cruised insists we MUST take HAL to Alaska. I insist on a balcony for that trip. Wife says N.O. NO. if the ship allows balcony smoking. Nothing HAL can offer will wow my wife as much as a whiff of smoke on a balcony will put her off. Therefore I've got to look to other lines that meet our needs best. Oceanview won't suffice for that trip.

A new study released of young smokers indicated that the rate in Florida was about 15% in 2005. As of 2014 the rate is down to 7.5%. On a long enough time line there just won't be enough smokers for HAL to continue to justify offering this amenity.

Like I've said though, in 2015 you are going to hear a lot from HAL about smoking, and it's going to sound very similar to what Disney/Princess/RCI/NCL/CCL have been saying lately...

[PirateShark]

[quote name='LMaxwell']Every one we met that has cruised insists we MUST take HAL to Alaska. I insist on a balcony for that trip. Wife says N.O. NO. if the ship allows balcony smoking. Nothing HAL can offer will wow my wife as much as a whiff of smoke on a balcony will put her off. Therefore I've got to look to other lines that meet our needs best. Oceanview won't suffice for that trip.
[/QUOTE]

Balcony is the only way to go in Alaska. Don't know how you feel about aft cabins or what your budget is but if you can swing it do the aft. We had our best wildlife viewing from an aft but others MMV.

I now return you to your regular programming...

[Lizzie68]

[quote name='peddieplease']That's very generous of you, but you haven't given an inch, exactly. In the eyes of smokers, they've given way more than in inch. They don't want it all, just a few places where they can still smoke. They recognize they can't smoke in dining areas or in their rooms or most places at all, so be realistic. And I don't smoke cigars, I was only defending their right to smoke them, in the hopes that THEY would be considerate. I'm going to say it again: If only HAL would only allow rear balconies for smoking, maybe we could resolve this. Maybe on one side of ship. Why not at least TRY this? It's not as if smokers are asking for everything, just to be allowed to enjoy their vice in a few places. Honestly, it's like a playground with kids. We've should try and get along. You have your points, and I don't dispute them. Play nice, okay?[/quote]

If you take the time to go back through this thread (I know, it's a long one!) and perhaps many previous such threads - you will find that many, many non-smokers have advocated exactly what you are demanding - a few places where they can still smoke. We have even advocated a comfortable inside ventilated area for them. Is it too much to ask that in return, we be able to enjoy the fresh sea air on the balcony?

[LMaxwell]

[quote name='PirateShark']Balcony is the only way to go in Alaska. Don't know how you feel about aft cabins or what your budget is but if you can swing it do the aft. We had our best wildlife viewing from an aft but others MMV.

I now return you to your regular programming...[/quote]

If balcony smoking is allowed, my wife won't book a balcony. End of discussion. No sense trying to negotiate it. The first time she smells smoke do you know who is going to get the stinkeye for talking her into it? An Aft cabin is not going to really alleviate the issue either but certainly can be quite panoramic and enjoyable otherwise. I won't go for the expense of Alaska for an inside or oceanview room, hence will have to look for other lines (at this point in time). We have time. We are in our 30's and have a long life ahead to travel.

[PirateShark]

[quote name='LMaxwell']If balcony smoking is allowed, my wife won't book a balcony. End of discussion. No sense trying to negotiate it. The first time she smells smoke do you know who is going to get the stinkeye for talking her into it? An Aft cabin is not going to really alleviate the issue either but certainly can be quite panoramic and enjoyable otherwise. I won't go for the expense of Alaska for an inside or oceanview room, hence will have to look for other lines (at this point in time). We have time. We are in our 30's and have a long life ahead to travel.[/QUOTE]

I hear you. Balcony smoking policy on HAL is the reason our next Alaskan cruise will NOT be on a Dam Ship.

[mightycruisequeen]

[quote name='Lizzie68']If you take the time to go back through this thread (I know, it's a long one!) and perhaps many previous such threads - you will find that many, many non-smokers have advocated exactly what you are demanding - a few places where they can still smoke. We have even advocated a comfortable inside ventilated area for them. Is it too much to ask that in return, we be able to enjoy the fresh sea air on the balcony?[/QUOTE]

Sounds like an ideal solution to me! :D

[summersigh]

We've done 9 cruises on a variety of lines. The only time we ever smelled smoke on our verandah was on an RCCL cruise - after they'd done away with veranda smoking - so not every cruise where smoking is allowed on the verandahs is a nightmare.

I also believe that if smokers were given a small but well ventilated room/lounge that is inside away from the elements it may ease smoking in areas were it would bother non-smokers.

[sail7seas]

[quote name='LMaxwell']Every one we met that has cruised insists we MUST take HAL to Alaska. I insist on a balcony for that trip. Wife says N.O. NO. if the ship allows balcony smoking. Nothing HAL can offer will wow my wife as much as a whiff of smoke on a balcony will put her off. Therefore I've got to look to other lines that meet our needs best. Oceanview won't suffice for that trip.

A new study released of young smokers indicated that the rate in Florida was about 15% in 2005. As of 2014 the rate is down to 7.5%. On a long enough time line there just won't be enough smokers for HAL to continue to justify offering this amenity.

Like I've said though, in 2015 you are going to hear a lot from HAL about smoking, and it's going to sound very similar to what Disney/Princess/RCI/NCL/CCL have been saying lately...[/QUOTE]

[B] We definitely used our verandah a lot in Alaska. We were very fortunate to not be bothered by smoking neighbors that cruise. We would have been very disappointed be pushed inside on that cruise. I am not willing to put up with the stench of second hand smoke anymore. I never smell it at home and don't want to tolerate it on my vacation.

I hope those Florida smoking statistics are right. It is encouraging.

[/B]

[qsuzi]

[quote name='sail7seas'][B] After over 80 HAL cruises in cabins with verandahs, I have a very good idea the 'way the wind blows' with verandah smokers. Sadly, there are more smokers now on verandahs as HAL Ashtray of the Seas is about the last of the major cruise lines in North America to permit it.
[/B][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Navy"]Sail, reading everyone's comments does have an impact and the reality is that even the most considerate balcony smoker may/will have a negative impact on someone nearby (above/below/side) who has a difficult time smelling smoke. When HAL changes to no smoking on balconies I hope they make the necessary changes that will be best for smokers and nonsmokers (indoor places well ventilated, etc.) I have read so many comments from nonsmokers (other cruise lines) who now have issues on other areas of the ship that smokers are now coming to. General comment: Change and adjustments are difficult or some are resistant but with a few exceptions they are possible to make. Some of us don't want to or can't understand what it is like to be in someone else's shoes whatever the issue is. [/COLOR] Edited December 28, 2014 by qsuzi