This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[cruisemom42]

You're the only "non smokers";) (inc. your wife) who seem totally fine with the present arrangements. Though I suspect now I've said that we'll get a whole load of "non smokers" that will just love the romantic drift of smoke wafting across their balconies.

 

Please don't presume to speak for everyone. I gave up posting on this subject a while ago due to the excessive zealots on both sides of the debate. I would guess there are a significant number of non-smokers such as myself who are reluctant to post but not particularly bothered if others smoke on their balcony.

[Trevor Fountain]

Please don't presume to speak for everyone. I gave up posting on this subject a while ago due to the excessive zealots on both sides of the debate. I would guess there are a significant number of non-smokers such as myself who are reluctant to post but not particularly bothered if others smoke on their balcony.

 

 

Which is fine, and strengthens the case for Smoking balconies on one side and non smoking on the other, if some non smokers don't mind.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[LindaM]

Which is fine, and strengthens the case for Smoking balconies on one side and non smoking on the other, if some non smokers don't mind.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

 

"If some non smokers don't mind"---that is why limiting smoking to one side will never work or be considered by HAL. Those who might book on the less desirable side are going to want a discount! Many of us choose our cabin, and even the side of the ship we prefer. Sorry, but your idea is a bust!

[Aquahound]

I totally understand that smokers need somewhere to light up, and I have suggested on this thread that one side of the ship should have smoking allowed on balconies. I'm sure that could work, but some people seem to think there is a logistic problem with that. The problem is that nobody tries, they either allow smoking on all balconies, or none at all.

 

It certainly is a logistical problem. In a society where only 18% of people smoke, it makes no business sense whatsoever to designate 50% of the balconies as smoking. To split the ship in half like that, the designations would have to be advertised so both smokers and non-smokers know which side to book, and with one side being designated smoking, it would detract the other 82% of society from booking that side. The reason no cruise line has tried it isn't because no one has thought of it. It's because it's not a good idea.

[richwmn]

It certainly is a logistical problem. In a society where only 18% of people smoke, it makes no business sense whatsoever to designate 50% of the balconies as smoking. To split the ship in half like that, the designations would have to be advertised so both smokers and non-smokers know which side to book, and with one side being designated smoking, it would detract the other 82% of society from booking that side. The reason no cruise line has tried it isn't because no one has thought of it. It's because it's not a good idea.

Aquahound - you are engaging in the same statistical fallacy that keeps being perpetrated on this board. While you are correct that 18%(or so) of the US populations smokes, it does not follow that the other 82% are as violently opposed to smoking as you are. Normal statistics show that about 18% of the population fall into that category. In truth, around 50-60% of the population would not be bothered to have a smoker nearby.

As to whatever group wouldn't be able to book on the side of their choice due to one side being smoking - that is compromise. We all have to sacrifice at times because of other peoples habits or preferences.

The one thing that is evident on these threads is that those that post on the non-smoking side are not willing to compromise, they want it all. Smokers, on the other hand, have had their options constantly limited and are just trying to hold on to something and are the ones who tend to compromise.

(For the record, I don't smoke and never have)

[Aquahound]

Aquahound - you are engaging in the same statistical fallacy that keeps being perpetrated on this board.

 

I don't agree it's a fallacy, and the fact no major company has done it seems to support my opinion of it being a foolish business move.

[Drico]

 

 

You're the only "non smokers";) (inc. your wife) who seem totally fine with the present arrangements.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please don't presume to speak for everyone. I gave up posting on this subject a while ago due to the excessive zealots on both sides of the debate. I would guess there are a significant number of non-smokers such as myself who are reluctant to post but not particularly bothered if others smoke on their balcony.

 

 

 

I'm also a non-smoker who is totally fine with the present arrangements.

[bajakiter]

The only reason I read this thread is in the hopes of seeing the the post with the date that smoking is finally prohibited on the balconies.

Waiting, waiting. Hope it is soon, at least before I expire!

[Theodorable]

We have done over 30 cruises on all the major lines, and mostly in balcony cabins. Neither my husband or I smoke and I can't tell you the number of times we have been run off our balcony by smokers...at sea and in port. We are just back from 17 days on Celebrity and it was an absolute joy to sit on our balcony without smoke and be in the casino with no smoke either.

 

Here is Vancouver there is no smoking just about anywhere, no pubs, clubs, shops, restaurants, and even our parks are non smoking. I truly don't understand Holland America, I can only assume that, as others have mentioned on this thread, they are desparately trying to keep a shrinking client base and are willing to do anything to keep them.

[oaktreerb]

We have done over 30 cruises on all the major lines, and mostly in balcony cabins. Neither my husband or I smoke and I can't tell you the number of times we have been run off our balcony by smokers...at sea and in port. We are just back from 17 days on Celebrity and it was an absolute joy to sit on our balcony without smoke and be in the casino with no smoke either.

 

Here is Vancouver there is no smoking just about anywhere, no pubs, clubs, shops, restaurants, and even our parks are non smoking. I truly don't understand Holland America, I can only assume that, as others have mentioned on this thread, they are desparately trying to keep a shrinking client base and are willing to do anything to keep them.

 

Maybe the shrinking client base is caused by the nonsmokers leaving for a smoke free balcony on another cruise line.

[oaktreerb]

The only reason I read this thread is in the hopes of seeing the the post with the date that smoking is finally prohibited on the balconies.

Waiting, waiting. Hope it is soon, at least before I expire!

 

Me too! I'm hoping the smoking policy change date is prior to my final payment for my next cruise.

[Theodorable]

Maybe the shrinking client base is caused by the nonsmokers leaving for a smoke free balcony on another cruise line.

 

We are definitely not fussy about which line we go on. We just head for the date and itinerary that suits us best, but it would have to be a pretty amazing itinerary for us to go on Holland America now, especially after just being on Celebrity.

 

Going on Norwegian for New Year and looking forward to it's no smoking balcony's.

[Mrdillion]

I'm also a non-smoker who is totally fine with the present arrangements.

 

I'm also a non-smoker who has never smoked and I have no problem with the current smoking policy allowing Balcony smoking.

[peaches from georgia]

I think cruisers that would be new to HAL or to having a balcony are getting an exaggerated view of the problem. Most non-smokers who have no problem with smoking on the balconies never even bother to post here and many of the most vociferous non-smokers, who post constantly about stopping all balcony smoking, have admitted at some point that they have only rarely been bothered to such a degree that they had to go inside. Reading this thread gives the uninitiated the idea the balconies are in a 24/7 fog of smoke and that is very very far from the truth. If it was really that bad they could easily find another good or better cruise line to sail where balcony smoking is prohibited.

[kennicott]

I think cruisers that would be new to HAL or to having a balcony are getting an exaggerated view of the problem. Most non-smokers who have no problem with smoking on the balconies never even bother to post here and many of the most vociferous non-smokers, who post constantly about stopping all balcony smoking, have admitted at some point that they have only rarely been bothered to such a degree that they had to go inside. Reading this thread gives the uninitiated the idea the balconies are in a 24/7 fog of smoke and that is very very far from the truth. If it was really that bad they could easily find another good or better cruise line to sail where balcony smoking is prohibited.

 

I continually read posts which indicate non-smokers want it all, no smoking period! While smokers are willing to compromise. These comments often are posted by non-smokers, who stipulate that they have had no problem with the smokers during previous voyages on HAL or other lines.

 

What appears to be missing here is the absence of recognition of a possible forced major transfiguration within HAL's business model. HAL now offers the only balcony smoking, they didn't decide to make this happen it simply evolved. This is a new development, a change in progress. Therefore, the percentage of smokers on HAL is bound to dramatically increase, is this what they want?

 

Hey, as I have previously mentioned, with the exception of only a couple of unpleasant situations, we haven't undergone serious heartburn with shipboard smokers, not to the extent we couldn't live with the nuisance that is.

 

Therefore, we are not talking the status quo here, the focus should be on a developing major negative change. Now, it might be cute for somebody to tell me to go find another non-smoking balcony line if I'm so nonplussed over this all. Well, that is exactly what we are currently doing. Like I said before, it is going to take some time for this all to sort out and for HAL management to render a final determination, so we are treading water waiting to see. It is not so simple to walk away from four star mariner status and the perks we have earned. Not to mention we have a significant deposit on a future cruise which runs out in a little over three years.

[sail7seas]

I continually read posts which indicate non-smokers want it all, no smoking period! While smokers are willing to compromise. These comments often are posted by non-smokers, who stipulate that they have had no problem with the smokers during previous voyages on HAL or other lines.

 

<snip>

 

I'm not sure it's true that many non-smokers want a totally smoke free ship. I don't. I think it reasonable that smokers should be provided an outdoor space where smoking is permitted that is sheltered from weather. They should also be able to smoke inside at a designated, well-ventilated location that can be easily avoided by non-smokers who do not wish to be exposed. I have no goal for a fully smoke free ship. I eagerly hope for smoker free verandahs.

 

[PathfinderEss]

I'm not sure it's true that many non-smokers want a totally smoke free ship. I don't. I think it reasonable that smokers should be provided an outdoor space where smoking is permitted that is sheltered from weather. They should also be able to smoke inside at a designated, well-ventilated location that can be easily avoided by non-smokers who do not wish to be exposed. I have no goal for a fully smoke free ship. I eagerly hope for smoker free verandahs.

 

 

Well, I think your in the minority Sails, most critics of smoking truly want a totally smoke free ship. I find with most people it is their way or the highway. There seems to be no tolerance in people anymore.

[Cashew14]

I'm not sure it's true that many non-smokers want a totally smoke free ship. I don't. I think it reasonable that smokers should be provided an outdoor space where smoking is permitted that is sheltered from weather. They should also be able to smoke inside at a designated, well-ventilated location that can be easily avoided by non-smokers who do not wish to be exposed. I have no goal for a fully smoke free ship. I eagerly hope for smoker free verandahs.

 

 

I believe in your eyes this is reasonable.

 

For quite a few smokers it is not, hence smokers booking with HAL and not other ships with so called "dedicated" outdoor smoking areas.

[CruiseWhere]

I'm not sure it's true that many non-smokers want a totally smoke free ship. I don't. I think it reasonable that smokers should be provided an outdoor space where smoking is permitted that is sheltered from weather. They should also be able to smoke inside at a designated, well-ventilated location that can be easily avoided by non-smokers who do not wish to be exposed. I have no goal for a fully smoke free ship. I eagerly hope for smoker free verandahs.

 

Well said Sail!! I couldn't agree with you more!!!!

[Cashew14]

Well, I think your in the minority Sails, most critics of smoking truly want a totally smoke free ship. I find with most people it is their way or the highway. There seems to be no tolerance in people anymore.

 

Actually a lot of non-smokers are much more tolerant than what we witness here at times. Thank god. :)

[Lizzie68]

Well, I think your in the minority Sails, most critics of smoking truly want a totally smoke free ship. I find with most people it is their way or the highway. There seems to be no tolerance in people anymore.

 

No, Sail is definitely not in the minority - my experience on reading the topic here is that over and over again the non-smoking posters have said exactly what Sail is repeating. I don't see any that want a totally smoke-free ship. A comfortable, enclosed and ventilated indoor area has been suggested by most of the non smokers here, as well as the usual outdoor areas. Seems tolerant and reasonable to me and reflects real life on land.

 

Conversely, as I mentioned in an earlier post, some smokers post that they invite all and anyone to come smoke on their balcony (including cigars) - I wonder how considerate they have been in asking people above and beside them if that would bother them. I imagine that would be like being right next to or in the middle of the casino. Hopefully, those smokers are in the minority.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Lizzie68

[sail7seas]

Not very reasonable when smokers tell us non-smoking verandah cruisers to go sail a different cruise line. That is a little too dismissive for my taste.

[Cashew14]

No, Sail is definitely not in the minority - my experience on reading the topic here is that over and over again the non-smoking posters have said exactly what Sail is repeating. I don't see any that want a totally smoke-free ship. A comfortable, enclosed and ventilated indoor area has been suggested by most of the non smokers here, as well as the usual outdoor areas. Seems tolerant and reasonable to me and reflects real life on land.

 

Conversely, as I mentioned in an earlier post, some smokers post that they invite all and anyone to come smoke on their balcony (including cigars) - I wonder how considerate they have been in asking people above and beside them if that would bother them. I imagine that would be like being right next to or in the middle of the casino. Hopefully, those smokers are in the minority.

 

Nice suggestions but for a lot of smokers not tolerant and not being able to smoke outdoors on a balcony does not reflect real life on land. :)

[sail7seas]

Nice suggestions but for a lot of smokers not tolerant and not being able to smoke outdoors on a balcony does not reflect real life on land. :)

 

It reflects real life in the state where I live. In MA, there is no smoking permitted at anyone's workplace. Just about anywhere you go is someone's workplace. It varies by city and town but some do not allow smoking in parks, on the beach, on outdoor patio dining...... It is very inconvenient being a smoker in many states. There are hospitals that will not hire smokers and no smoking permitted on their property including parking lot.

 

Edited December 16, 2014 by sail7seas

[Cashew14]

Not very reasonable when smokers tell us non-smoking verandah cruisers to go sail a different cruise line. That is a little too dismissive for my taste.

 

At least you have a choice which suits you if you want a non-smoking balcony. We don't have a choice, or lets say we are limited to the extreme now. :)