This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[ljcruising]

One would think if they are so weak that it would not matter if they are the only choice left for the smokers and people would just be happy! Didn't say heroic for smoking issue only for not bowing to the growing society that seems to never be happy.

[david,Mississauga]

I haven't looked at this thread in several weeks since one of the more enlightened members told me that if I was concerned about my health I should stay home. That's quite funny, actually.

 

The talk of smokers' "rights" is also amusing. Of course you have the right to smoke. But those who do not wish to share your filthy habit/addiction (as applicable) have a greater right. Smokers no longer call the shots everywhere as they once did. They can't smoke on aeroplanes, trains, cinemas, theatres, libraries, restaurants, pubs, most hotels - and mercifully no longer in hospitals.

 

But I still think there should be a smoking area on ships - as long as no-one has to involuntarily partake. A separately-ventilated room should be made available - and already is on many ships. The cruise lines could even charge extra for use of such space. Presumably it would need to be fumigated every now and then. The cruise lines are always coming up with ways of increasing on-board revenue; there's another possibility.

[LMaxwell]

One would think if they are so weak that it would not matter if they are the only choice left for the smokers and people would just be happy! Didn't say heroic for smoking issue only for not bowing to the growing society that seems to never be happy.

 

You are arguing and bargaining against something that is a foregone conclusion and coming down the pike. Surprised they have not announced it yet, but sources indicate they don't want their new ships "sullied" by smokers. As to the rest of your arguments, turn off the echo chambers and go outside and see that none of what you are upset about seems to exist at all.

[Sow There]

You are arguing and bargaining against something that is a foregone conclusion and coming down the pike. Surprised they have not announced it yet, but sources indicate they don't want their new ships "sullied" by smokers. As to the rest of your arguments, turn off the echo chambers and go outside and see that none of what you are upset about seems to exist at all.

I really doubt that HAL will change its policy for newbuilds. They just announced the cruise itineraries and are accepting bookings for Feb thru Apr 2016 sailings of Koningsdam. If they didn't "want their new ships 'sullied' by smokers," wouldn't they announce a new smoking policy before promoting that ship?

 

Imagine a careful passenger who smokes deciding he/she would put a deposit down on a veranda cabin on Koningsdam after reading through all of HAL's policies then having HAL outlaw veranda smoking.

 

To me this is a signal, albeit not that blatant, that HAL management has decided to leave the current smoking policy alone.

[Lizzie68]

I really doubt that HAL will change its policy for newbuilds. They just announced the cruise itineraries and are accepting bookings for Feb thru Apr 2016 sailings of Koningsdam. If they didn't "want their new ships 'sullied' by smokers," wouldn't they announce a new smoking policy before promoting that ship?

 

Imagine a careful passenger who smokes deciding he/she would put a deposit down on a veranda cabin on Koningsdam after reading through all of HAL's policies then having HAL outlaw veranda smoking.

 

To me this is a signal, albeit not that blatant, that HAL management has decided to leave the current smoking policy alone.

 

You have an excellent point there. However, HAL reserves the right to change it's policies whenever. Case in point - the wine policy.

[bellalisa]

I certainly wouldn't want my new stuff ruined by smokers. You can't get it out of curtains, rugs and walls.

 

What if I ran around with a spray can of some foul smelling poison and sprayed it in the air in the area around myself everywhere I went? I don't see any difference between that and smoking.

 

What irks me is smokers who light up in a crowd because after all they are "outside".

[kennicott]

That proves there are plenty of options available to the non- smokers and ONLY 1 option for the smokers at least you have choices to pick from .... Just looking through the 39 pages and can't believe some of the research that has been compiled and I have to salute HAL for not bowing down to the pressure of politics and a few protestors like when prayer was taken out of schools and now we can't even say Christmas without getting BASHED. It is true a few can make a difference but that few seem to only think of the benifits for them not how it effects groups as a whole. Sorry if this offends anybody, no intention just an example that everybody should stand up for their rights and if there are choices be great full because one day you may be like the smokers and NOT have a choice.

 

I say smoke away on your outdoor verandah and enjoy your cruise and Have a Merry Christmas!

 

Actually, I don't see HAL really as being heroic or anything of the kind, rather, I see them accidentally caught up in a set of circumstances. HAL was one of a number of lines whose business model allowed smoking on balconies. They also allowed guests to bring their own wine on board free of charge. What occurred first was that all other lines started charging corkage fees for wine brought on board. HAL decided to follow suit. Next, and just recently, lines other than HAL who allowed balcony smoking discontinued the practice.

 

It wasn't like these industry giants all attended a large conference, discussing, meeting and voting on the subject. HAL obviously got caught up in a regrettable set of actions and inactions. Hence, smokers from the four corners of the earth appear to be descending upon them and booking passage, since HAL is the "Only game left in town." They are no doubt today agonizing over their next course of action. They certainly do not want their ships to be known as the "Ashtrays of the Seas".

 

Stopped prayer in school? I must have really missed something. I graduated from college 52 years ago, not once ever did I hear of prayer before during or after classes in public schools. Maybe at a baccalaureate service, but that was always optional, or in religious academic institutions. War on Christmas? To me that's paranoia, there is no war on Christmas here, been sending out "Christmas Cards" for as long as I remember, never a complaint.

 

If you insist on struggling to find an analogy for the minority smoker ostracized from shipboard smoking, I would suggest using Pastor Martin Niemoller's famous quote, you know-----"Then they came for the Jews, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew... When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out."

 

I like that one, makes more sense too.

[Himself]

I am glad I quit smoking 22 years and six months and seven days ago. Hardest habit I ever had to break but Thank God I did it or I would not be making entries today--I would be planted.

[kennicott]

1st Officer "Hey Captain, there's a thick fog approaching on the starboard side".

Captain " It's fine, maintain present course, it's just another HAL ship with smokers on their balconies".;)

 

Excellent conceptualization Trevor Fountain. I was trying to come up with something similar, but yours is much better, love it.

 

I visualize a scene something like which occurred regularly within the huge North Atlantic transport trade during the age of coal and steam. Like the Vaterland, largest ship in the world from 1914-1935, a three stacker. For one crossing, 900 tons of coal into 46 boilers, easy to locate, as it left a trail of black halfway across the Atlantic.

[Lizzie68]

Excellent conceptualization Trevor Fountain. I was trying to come up with something similar, but yours is much better, love it.

 

I visualize a scene something like which occurred regularly within the huge North Atlantic transport trade during the age of coal and steam. Like the Vaterland, largest ship in the world from 1914-1935, a three stacker. For one crossing, 900 tons of coal into 46 boilers, easy to locate, as it left a trail of black halfway across the Atlantic.

 

Don't even joke about it. I've seen people post on the forum that their balcony is open for all smokers to come to, including cigars, which must be hell for their neighbours.

[Cashew14]

Let me think about it for a minute.

 

Since non-smokers are on their balcony "24/7" witnessing smokers "ruin" their balcony experience and insist on non smoking balconies, this would mean a lot of the public open spaces would be freed of non-smokers as they all then would enjoy "their" balcony now "24/7".

 

The ship then will have so many more empty spaces to create for smokers.

 

God, it's so easy. :cool:

 

But! Wait a minute. I forgot, non-smokers want 97% of the ship to them and think it is acceptable for smokers to enjoy their cruise huddled up in a corner on the ship.

[Sow There]

...I visualize a scene something like which occurred regularly within the huge North Atlantic transport trade during the age of coal and steam. Like the Vaterland, largest ship in the world from 1914-1935, a three stacker. For one crossing, 900 tons of coal into 46 boilers, easy to locate, as it left a trail of black halfway across the Atlantic.

 

I visualize a scene in 2014 with something that occurs regularly within the North Atlantic leisure cruise trade of passenger cruise ships sailing, not for trade nor for business travel, but just for the pleasure of the leisure cruisers belching out stinky black exhaust from the engines burning bunker C diesel fuel and polluting the atmosphere far more than the coal and steam of yesteryear.

 

And yet we spend all this time and energy discussing the puff of smoke generated by a cigarette smoker and remain silent about the much larger carbon footprint of the cruise ship.

[Cashew14]

I visualize a scene in 2014 with something that occurs regularly within the North Atlantic leisure cruise trade of passenger cruise ships sailing, not for trade nor for business travel, but just for the pleasure of the leisure cruisers belching out stinky black exhaust from the engines burning bunker C diesel fuel and polluting the atmosphere far more than the coal and steam of yesteryear.

 

And yet we spend all this time and energy discussing the puff of smoke generated by a cigarette smoker and remain silent about the much larger carbon footprint of the cruise ship.

 

 

Can't agree more.

[Trevor Fountain]

I visualize a scene in 2014 with something that occurs regularly within the North Atlantic leisure cruise trade of passenger cruise ships sailing, not for trade nor for business travel, but just for the pleasure of the leisure cruisers belching out stinky black exhaust from the engines burning bunker C diesel fuel and polluting the atmosphere far more than the coal and steam of yesteryear.

 

And yet we spend all this time and energy discussing the puff of smoke generated by a cigarette smoker and remain silent about the much larger carbon footprint of the cruise ship.

The carbon footprint of the ship does not ruin my cruise. My clothes don't stink, and I don't cough and splutter.

A smoker can, and has, caused me to not be able to use my balcony. This is totally unacceptable. I am booked on an NCL cruise, which I cannot use the casino, again this would normally be unacceptable, hence I am on a very port intensive trip.

This has to stop, and obviously it will, just a matter of time, but why cruise lines drag their feet, instead of either banning smoking completely, or coming to a compromise, where non-smokers are not inconvenienced by a filthy disgusting habit, I don't know.

In the UK you cannot smoke in any public building. Only the money raised in taxes has stopped a total ban.

I do not want to smell any of your smoke. Smokers should be campaigning for a balcony smoking ban, with a compromise. If you continue with trying to keep smoking on balconies, you will end up with even less. Nothing more certain.

[tip]

I grew up in the 50's and 60's when it seemed that everyone smoked everywhere. When I first started cruising folks even smoked in restaurants and in the theaters. Times have changed. Smoking is no longer socially acceptable. I keep reading about "smokers' rights. No one has the right to pollute the air that I breathe with second hand smoke. Sooner or later HAL will recognize that it is the 21st Century.

[pnkandpurple]

I grew up in the 50's and 60's when it seemed that everyone smoked everywhere. When I first started cruising folks even smoked in restaurants and in the theaters. Times have changed. Smoking is no longer socially acceptable. I keep reading about "smokers' rights. No one has the right to pollute the air that I breathe with second hand smoke. Sooner or later HAL will recognize that it is the 21st Century.

 

You are right! Non smokers also have rights and we are also a captive audience on the ship and shouldn't be forced to breathe second hand smoke in order to enjoy our cruise we also paid for. We like to have a balcony cabin and usually don't have a problem with adjoining cabins smoking on their balcony. It has been a problem a few times when I couldn't be on the balcony for even 30 min. without somebody smoking next door (yes, it does go to the other balcony) My enjoyment of the balcony was severely limited.

I can see the problem with having one side of ship non smoking it would be difficult to make it work. Smokers are very much in the minority and I think the HAL will stop smoking on balconies and the casino in the near future.

Someone mentioned non smokers are willing to be on the ship with the smoke stacks but not cigarette or cigar smoke. All ships I've been on have their smoke stacks at the very top. Don't believe because it's more efficient or cheaper.

I know it's very difficult to stop smoking and there should be a place for smokers. Maybe at the back of the ship on a high deck and only when the ship is moving.

Maybe smokers can see it as a good opportunity to quit?

[Sow There]

You are right! Non smokers also have rights and we are also a captive audience on the ship (oh, so you're forced to board a cruise ship against your free will even though you know when you book that you will possibly encounter some evil doer cigarette smoker?) and shouldn't be forced to breathe second hand smoke in order to enjoy our cruise ...

 

Dogmatism on Cruise Critic won't work. Communicating your POV with HAL execs in Seattle will help a lot.

[Trevor Fountain]

Dogmatism on Cruise Critic won't work. Communicating your POV with HAL execs in Seattle will help a lot.

 

I have no idea what your agenda is here. You have been banging the drum to allow the filthy habit to soil the lungs and clothes of non-smokers since 2007 on these boards. You seem not to want compromise, well good luck.

I am now thinking a total smoking ban on ships is the right way forward, then these discussions will end, just like they have here in Edinburgh and the rest of the UK.

You're the only "non smokers";) (inc. your wife) who seem totally fine with the present arrangements. Though I suspect now I've said that we'll get a whole load of "non smokers" that will just love the romantic drift of smoke wafting across their balconies.

[Cashew14]

I have no idea what your agenda is here. You have been banging the drum to allow the filthy habit to soil the lungs and clothes of non-smokers since 2007 on these boards. You seem not to want compromise, well good luck.

I am now thinking a total smoking ban on ships is the right way forward, then these discussions will end, just like they have here in Edinburgh and the rest of the UK.

You're the only "non smokers";) (inc. your wife) who seem totally fine with the present arrangements. Though I suspect now I've said that we'll get a whole load of "non smokers" that will just love the romantic drift of smoke wafting across their balconies.

 

The difference is you can smoke in outside areas of restaurants and pubs (and non smokers sit right next to you) in the UK. So what's the difference to smoking outside on a balcony on a cruise ship?

[Trevor Fountain]

The difference is you can smoke in outside areas of restaurants and pubs (and non smokers sit right next to you) in the UK. So what's the difference to smoking outside on a balcony on a cruise ship?

 

The difference is I am paying for the privilege of enjoying my private space in fresh sea air. I expect just that. Fortunately other cruise lines now recognize that, and I will continue to choose those. I would like to cruise HAL one day, and I'm sure I will.

Also, don't be fooled into thinking that non smokers actually enjoy the experience of sitting next to smokers outside. As there is no outdoor ban on smoking, we have no choice if we want to enjoy the sunshine. I for one do not sit anywhere I can smell cigarette smoke, because I really can't stand it. If others can, fine.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Trevor Fountain

[Cashew14]

The difference is I am paying for the privilege of enjoying my private space in fresh sea air. I expect just that. Fortunately other cruise lines now recognize that, and I will continue to choose those. I would like to cruise HAL one day, and I'm sure I will.

 

I am happy for you enjoying all these other cruise lines. :)

 

So why not just accept that smokers have only 1 or 2 choices in respects to choosing cruise ships and we also pay top dollars and also like the privilege to enjoy our balcony.

 

P.S. Really loved Scotland's golf courses and Glencoe on my last trip. And I even had a smoking room in our hotel, good old Scotland ;)

[Trevor Fountain]

I am happy for you enjoying all these other cruise lines. :)

 

So why not just accept that smokers have only 1 or 2 choices in respects to choosing cruise ships and we also pay top dollars and also like the privilege to enjoy our balcony.

 

P.S. Really loved Scotland's golf courses and Glencoe on my last trip. And I even had a smoking room in our hotel, good old Scotland ;)

 

I totally understand that smokers need somewhere to light up, and I have suggested on this thread that one side of the ship should have smoking allowed on balconies. I'm sure that could work, but some people seem to think there is a logistic problem with that. The problem is that nobody tries, they either allow smoking on all balconies, or none at all.

 

BTW, I live on a Golf Course, but don't play the game. I'm English also, but have lived here for 12 years.

[Cashew14]

I totally understand that smokers need somewhere to light up, and I have suggested on this thread that one side of the ship should have smoking allowed on balconies. I'm sure that could work, but some people seem to think there is a logistic problem with that. The problem is that nobody tries, they either allow smoking on all balconies, or none at all.

 

BTW, I live on a Golf Course, but don't play the game. I'm English also, but have lived here for 12 years.

 

I also think this would be a great solution but as you said, too many people are not happy about this compromise as they lose their "favourite" side of the ship. :rolleyes:

 

Oh my god, you live on a golf course and don't play? Time to get a new hobby. :D

[Trevor Fountain]

I also think this would be a great solution but as you said, too many people are not happy about this compromise as they lose their "favourite" side of the ship. :rolleyes:

 

Oh my god, you live on a golf course and don't play? Time to get a new hobby. :D

 

Too busy slaving away! Off to work now. Have a nice day.

[Cashew14]

Too busy slaving away! Off to work now. Have a nice day.

 

Nice speaking with you and have a lovely day too. :)