This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[Mary Ellen]

Heck, all you have to type in the search box on the HAL site is 'smoking' to find the info. Smoking Policy

 

Is Smoking Allowed On Board?

 

For the comfort of all of our guests, all staterooms (cabins), showrooms and most other indoor areas are designated non-smoking. While smoking is not permitted in staterooms, guests are allowed to smoke on stateroom verandahs. Smoking is also permitted on certain other designated, outside decks. The designated smoking areas for all ships are as follows unless otherwise noted.

Stateroom verandahs

Casino (Active players only)

Seaview Bar

Outside Decks

Sports Deck

Observation Deck (ms Prinsendam, ms Eurodam, ms Nieuw Amsterdam, ms Noordam, ms Oosterdam, ms Westerdam, and ms Zuiderdam only)

Cigar and pipe smoking is not allowed anywhere inside the ship; it is only permitted on the outside decks where smoking is otherwise allowed and on stateroom verandahs. Electronic cigarettes are permitted in staterooms but not in other public areas of the ship other than on outside decks designated as smoking areas.

Any guest who smokes inside staterooms in violation of our policy will be charged a US$250 cleaning fee per day of violation.

[Danni3ll3]

It would be better if they allowed smoking on balconies on one side of the ship, and prohibit smoking on the opposite side.

There would be more chance of this sticking in the future. As things are now there is more chance they will just fall in line with other companies and ban balcony smoking altogether.

 

As a non smoker who is greatly bothered by the smell of cigarette smoke, I think that this is a great idea! The only issue is that it would be hard to fill a ship with equal numbers of smokers and non-smokers.

[sail7seas]

The concept of having smoking on one side of the ship's verandahs has been raised dozens of times but it isn't practical and cannot work. The percentage or adult smokers in North America (the large cruise lines major market about which we are speaking) is too low to fill 50% of those verandah cabins. If you say one side is smoking permitted you are leaving a lot of verandah cabins that non-smokers will not book just in case a smoker is beside them.

 

That puts us right to exactly where the policy leaves us today.

I do not want the ships to go fully smoke free. I am fine about having outdoor smoking sections and would support an indoor well ventilated area that non-smokers can avoid..

 

It is verandah smoking I reject.

 

[ODECCIT]

The concept of having smoking on one side of the ship's verandahs has been raised dozens of times but it isn't practical and cannot work. The percentage or adult smokers in North America (the large cruise lines major market about which we are speaking) is too low to fill 50% of those verandah cabins. If you say one side is smoking permitted you are leaving a lot of verandah cabins that non-smokers will not book just in case a smoker is beside them.

 

That puts us right to exactly where the policy leaves us today.

I do not want the ships to go fully smoke free. I am fine about having outdoor smoking sections and would support an indoor well ventilated area that non-smokers can avoid..

 

It is verandah smoking I reject.

 

 

I like Hal

 

 

I like Hal's smoking policy and always book verandah cabin.

[sail7seas]

Would you please remove the end of the quote you credit to me......

 

YOU wrote "I like HAL" and while I also like HAL I do not want those words at the end of my post.

 

You have merely a few minutes to get it off before your edit time expires.

I'm sure you did this in error but it isn't appropriate to my post.

[SteveH2508]

The concept of having smoking on one side of the ship's verandahs has been raised dozens of times but it isn't practical and cannot work. The percentage or adult smokers in North America (the large cruise lines major market about which we are speaking) is too low to fill 50% of those verandah cabins. If you say one side is smoking permitted you are leaving a lot of verandah cabins that non-smokers will not book just in case a smoker is beside them.

 

<snip>

 

 

There is an assumption being made here that actually cannot be proved or disproved. It is generally accepted that about 20% of cruisers smoke. Therefore there are about 80% of cruisers who do not. Nobody knows what proportion of those 80% do not care whether they have a smoker next to them on their balcony or not. If roughly 3/8ths of those non smokers did not care, then the concept of 1 side smoking - 1 side non-smoking could work.

 

How many people book a guarantee cabin where they have no control about where they end up?

 

It could be a judgement call for the cruiser as to whether they chance having a smoking neighbour (and whether it really bothers them), or whether they take the cabin lottery gamble similar to a guarantee booking.

 

Just saying - do not condemn the half-and-half idea out of hand just because it does fit with your preference. It could potentially be a solution that keeps all parties happy.

 

Maybe HAL are monitoring the numbers and feedback to see whether it is a viable option? The numbers are not known at this time - maybe the suits are scoping the spreadsheets as we speak?

[sail7seas]

There is an assumption being made here that actually cannot be proved or disproved. It is generally accepted that about 20% of cruisers smoke. Therefore there are about 80% of cruisers who do not. Nobody knows what proportion of those 80% do not care whether they have a smoker next to them on their balcony or not. If roughly 3/8ths of those non smokers did not care, then the concept of 1 side smoking - 1 side non-smoking could work.

 

How many people book a guarantee cabin where they have no control about where they end up?

 

It could be a judgement call for the cruiser as to whether they chance having a smoking neighbour (and whether it really bothers them), or whether they take the cabin lottery gamble similar to a guarantee booking.

 

Just saying - do not condemn the half-and-half idea out of hand just because it does fit with your preference. It could potentially be a solution that keeps all parties happy.

 

Maybe HAL are monitoring the numbers and feedback to see whether it is a viable option? The numbers are not known at this time - maybe the suits are scoping the spreadsheets as we speak?

 

 

I understand your point but bigger math minds than mine have struggled in cruise company headquarters and around corporate conference tables trying to find the perfect solution. It is likely were it that simple, we would have seen that at least tried a great many cruises ago. To date, I've heard of no cruise line who did that for any meaningful length of time.

 

[SteveH2508]

I understand your point but bigger math minds than mine have struggled in cruise company headquarters and around corporate conference tables trying to find the perfect solution. It is likely were it that simple, we would have seen that at least tried a great many cruises ago. To date, I've heard of no cruise line who did that for any meaningful length of time.

 

 

I did not say it was simple - and I had to have a chuckle over the 'bigger math minds'. Some of the corporate suits I have dealt with need to take their shoes and socks off to count above ten!:rolleyes:

[Aquahound]

It would be better if they allowed smoking on balconies on one side of the ship, and prohibit smoking on the opposite side.

 

That idea gets mentioned all the time. Give the logistics of that idea just a little bit of thought and you'll realize how impossible it really is.

[mrscopper]

We just returned from sailing on the Zuiderdam. All was wonderful, especially the staff. The only thing that was disappointing was the smoke drifting in on verandah. We only used it twice and paid good bucks for it. Our daughter also had a room about 6 cabins down from us, she could not use hers either, smoking on both sides. Wish HAL would read up on the dangers of smoking and second hand smoke. Princess has designated areas for smoking and does not allow smoking on verandas. They are part of the same company.

[Krazy Kruizers]

We just returned from sailing on the Zuiderdam. All was wonderful, especially the staff. The only thing that was disappointing was the smoke drifting in on verandah. We only used it twice and paid good bucks for it. Our daughter also had a room about 6 cabins down from us, she could not use hers either, smoking on both sides. Wish HAL would read up on the dangers of smoking and second hand smoke. Princess has designated areas for smoking and does not allow smoking on verandas. They are part of the same company.

 

I sure hope we don't have that experience on our upcoming Zuiderdam cruise.

 

[serendipity1499]

We just returned from sailing on the Zuiderdam. All was wonderful, especially the staff. The only thing that was disappointing was the smoke drifting in on verandah. We only used it twice and paid good bucks for it. Our daughter also had a room about 6 cabins down from us, she could not use hers either, smoking on both sides. Wish HAL would read up on the dangers of smoking and second hand smoke. Princess has designated areas for smoking and does not allow smoking on verandas. They are part of the same company.

Both Princess & HAL are completely autonomous.. Princess is not part of HAL.. Even though they both are under the Carnival Umbrella, each cruise line sets it's own policies..

 

Unfortunately, HAL has many Europeans, who cruise on their ships & who still smoke.. They still are catering to them..:eek:

[kjw869]

Both Princess & HAL are completely autonomous.. Princess is not part of HAL.. Even though they both are under the Carnival Umbrella, each cruise line sets it's own policies..

 

Unfortunately, HAL has many Europeans, who cruise on their ships & who still smoke.. They still are catering to them..:eek:

 

Maybe in the "Dutch" in them. On a cruise a years or so ago, both the Captain and two of his officers were smoking while walking around the ship in port.

 

In Amsterdam, smoking has been on the rise the past five years, while five years ago, 27% of the Amsterdammers smoke, now it's 28%, and in the same article, it said five years ago 29% of the young Amsterdammers smoked and it's risen to 39%. This despite many more establishments ban smoking. Of course, there is a different type of smoke you can get in Amsterdam!

 

The Dutch average for smoking according to the article was 23%.

 

Article--Smoking on the rise in Amsterdam: http://www.iamexpat.nl/read-and-discuss/expat-page/news/smoking-on-the-rise-in-amsterdam

 

I read a recent a more recent article with about the same statistics.

 

While being in the medical field it was fun to watch the "estimates" by CDC and others. Young smokers won't admit to smoking, and with many of the Health Care Insurers imposing additional premium (some very high) on smokers, many deny, they smoke.

 

I remember a patient that walked out of my office and after reading his medical history, he said he quit smoking 10 years ago. After our appointment, I walked over to the window to see how the weather was outside, and there he was, lighting up a smoke.

[kennicott]

Both Princess & HAL are completely autonomous.. Princess is not part of HAL.. Even though they both are under the Carnival Umbrella, each cruise line sets it's own policies..

 

"Autonomous" (?) hardly, let alone completely autonomous. Believe you are harkening back to what was common wisdom prior to the major change when Carnival Corp restructured the system management of its fleet into groupings, e.g. Costa Cruises Group and Holland America Group. This was announced December 1, 2013.

 

"Since 2013, Kruse has focused on better aligning the brands so they don't compete in areas like promotions, marketing campaigns, direct mail and deployment. For example, he wouldn't like to repeat last year's circle Australia cruises operated at the same time by Princess and HAL, which source very similarly.

 

And were Princess to have weak demand for a particular sailing, there would be an effort not to take pricing action in a way that hurts the yields of a comparable HAL cruise. It comes down to not competing with ourselves, Kruse said. Doing these things really makes sense as a group and we want to lift everything in the portfolio."

 

"Stein Kruse is Chief Executive Officer of Holland America Group, a division of Carnival Corporation & plc. Holland America Group includes Princess Cruises, Holland America Line and Seabourn, as well as Holland America-Princess Alaska land operations. Kruse is also chairman of the board of MANCO, a U.K.-based entity that oversees the operations of Carnival Australia, including P&O Cruises Australia. He was appointed CEO of the newly formed Holland America Group on Dec. 1, 2013.

 

Holland America Group operates 41 cruise ships, with more than 36,000 employees worldwide delivering 25 million passenger cruise days annually.

 

Princess Cruises is the third-largest cruise line in the world, carrying approximately 1.4 million guests each year to top destinations around the globe on 17 premium vessels..

 

Holland America Line operates a fleet of 15 premium vessels carrying approximately 850,000 guests on more than 500 cruises annually to all seven continents. A new 2,660-passenger ship is under construction and scheduled for delivery February 2016 .

 

Holland America-Princess Land Operations is owned jointly by Holland America Line and Princess Cruises. The organization operates hotels, rail services, motor coach transportation, shore services and tour operations in Alaska and the Yukon for guests from Holland America Line and Princess Cruises on land tours.

 

Seabourn’s six intimate, all-suite luxury vessels carry between 208 and 450 guests and sail 197 cruises annually to the world’s most desirable destinations. A new 604-passenger ship is under construction and scheduled for delivery in mid-2016.

 

P&O Cruises Australia has three ships sailing from Sydney and Brisbane, Australia, and Auckland, New Zealand, to destinations across the Australasia region.."

[nb125]

Unfortunately, HAL has many Europeans, who cruise on their ships & who still smoke.

 

Really! How dare those Europeans cruise on your American ships:rolleyes:

[hal lover]

Just a question....

 

Where does the crew smoke on the ship's?

 

I have seen many crew member's get off the ship's in port and the first thing that they do is light up.

 

Just curious.

[sammiedawg]

Unfortunately, HAL has many Europeans, who cruise on their ships & who still smoke.

 

Really! How dare those Europeans cruise on your American ships:rolleyes:

 

Europeans sail many US based lines. HAL is the one dragging its feet on restricting smoking, especially veranda smoking. American smokers are also on board in large numbers thanks to the smoking policy. Kind of an adverse selection policy going on.

[serendipity1499]

Unfortunately, HAL has many Europeans, who cruise on their ships & who still smoke.

 

Really! How dare those Europeans cruise on your American ships:rolleyes:

 

 

 

I apologize! :o:oThis came out completely wrong..:o BTW these are not American ships.. They are Dutch ships & I'm proud of my Dutch & English heritage..

 

I love Europe & the British Isles & love all the people.. I'm retired from a European Airline.. All my Grandmothers & Grandfathers & my Father are from English, Dutch & German stock.. My father emigrated here from Canada.. I'm married to a man whose Mother & father came from Holland & Germany..

 

I should have said unfortunately many Europeans still smoke! As another quoted here in Holland more than 20% still smoke..

 

My Dutch DH stopped smoking years before we were married.. I promised him I too would stop, but it took me a year after we were married to stop smoking..

 

Again please accept my apology..:o

Edited December 13, 2014 by serendipity1499

[Trevor Fountain]

That idea gets mentioned all the time. Give the logistics of that idea just a little bit of thought and you'll realize how impossible it really is.

 

Well, I've given it some thought, and I don't see the problem.

As things stand I cannot book a balcony cabin, because I won't suffer something I hate, and avoid on land. Whereas if port side was strictly no smoking on balconies, and starboard was smoking permitted, I could book a balcony.

Please explain the problem with that. It seems a fair compromise to me.

[RuthC]

Well, I've given it some thought, and I don't see the problem.

Clearly it won't make everyone happy. However, it certainly seems an improvement over the status quo. Strange how the rabid anti-smokers won't accept a small improvement as acceptable.

[nb125]

I apologize! :o:oThis came out completely wrong..:o BTW these are not American ships.. They are Dutch ships & I'm proud of my Dutch & English heritage..

 

I love Europe & the British Isles & love all the people.. I'm retired from a European Airline.. All my Grandmothers & Grandfathers & my Father are from English, Dutch & German stock.. My father emigrated here from Canada.. I'm married to a man whose Mother & father came from Holland & Germany..

 

I should have said unfortunately many Europeans still smoke! As another quoted here in Holland more than 20% still smoke..

 

My Dutch DH stopped smoking years before we were married.. I promised him I too would stop, but it took me a year after we were married to stop smoking..

 

Again please accept my apology..:o

 

Thank you for explaining. I can see how it came out wasn't what you meant to say :)

[sammiedawg]

Clearly it won't make everyone happy. However, it certainly seems an improvement over the status quo. Strange how the rabid anti-smokers won't accept a small improvement as acceptable.

 

My guess is HAL and Carnival executives would be too embarrassed to make one side of the ship nonsmoking. They would need to admit they are twenty to thirty years behind the profound changes in American culture. They would need change their mission statement, tag lines and corporate advertising. They would officially become the Ashtray of the Seas.

[RuthC]

My guess is HAL and Carnival executives would be too embarrassed to make one side of the ship nonsmoking. They would need to admit they are twenty to thirty years behind the profound changes in American culture. They would need change their mission statement, tag lines and corporate advertising. They would officially become the Ashtray of the Seas.

Or, they could be following this thread and realize that making such a change would not reduce the complaints one iota---so why bother.

[ljcruising]

Well said Ruth C.... New here and a first time cruiser in May and I booked with HAL for Alaska and trying to learn all I can, and stumbled onto the almost 40 pages of something everybody already knows... People who don't smoke don't like it and people who do smoke just want their right to smoke I am not partial either way but after shifting through all this all I can think is there is only one cruise line in the whole world left to smoke on and the non smokers are STILL not happy???? Can't we give the smokers at least one choice and everybody just get along?

[rafinmd]

Clearly it won't make everyone happy. However, it certainly seems an improvement over the status quo. Strange how the rabid anti-smokers won't accept a small improvement as acceptable.

 

My guess is HAL and Carnival executives would be too embarrassed to make one side of the ship nonsmoking. They would need to admit they are twenty to thirty years behind the profound changes in American culture. They would need change their mission statement, tag lines and corporate advertising. They would officially become the Ashtray of the Seas.

 

You sure called that one. Actually, if 20% are smokers perhaps the upper or aft balconies on one side should be smoking rather than a whole side, but anything would be a step in the right direction.

 

Actually I'm unlikely to book a HAL balcony. About 20% of the reason is smoking. The other 80% is because of the cost differential between OV and balconies on the HAL ships I sail. For the price of a HAL balcony on the Amsterdam I can pretty much be on Crystal. One thing HAL and Crystal have in common is lots of open public space where I see no need for a balcony. I think the price differential is less on the Vista/Signature ships and I'll probably sail them someday but it isn't on my current radar.

 

On the other hand, on Celebrity I would be unlikely to book without a balcony. On the Summit, the ONLY public viewpoint I could find Port side was an awful smoking area.

 

Roy