Help with flight upgrade decision

[FlyerTalker]

Can't speak for sure as to how Mrs. Dave feels, but I only have one concern that would make me upgrade, and, that is sleep.

 

If you experienced people tell me that it's like heck to try and sleep, or, get any quality rest in an EC seat compared to a business/elite class seat, then the extra money to me is worth it. I'm 6' 1" and 197, but with severe back issues. If the way the EC seats lean back or don't lean back enough, along with the limited stretch room is that much worse than business class, I better jump on the upgrade.

 

I could care less about the food and most other things. I just want to be able to sleep well, if possible, and, stretch.

 

I guess I answered my own question.

Yep, you did.

 

Although Economy Comfort is better than standard Economy, it is still......Economy. You still have a roughly 18 inch wide seat with about 5 inches of recline. Which means your body is still sleeping in a basically upright position. A better upright position, but still upright.

 

DL's BusinessElite gives you flat-beds that are 180 degree flat (as opposed to some biz seats that give you a "slantboard" or "barcalounger"). The A330 has some of the newest seats, with full flat pods. So if you are a side-sleeper, or belly-sleeper or back-sleeper, you can assume that position on the seat. And if you need more padding on the seat, spread out the comforter and use part/all of it as a mattress pad under you!!

 

Is it as comfortable as your bed at home? Not until you get into some of the ultra-premium first class suites on some carriers. Is it miles ahead of even an Economy Comfort seat? You bet. And given back problems, the ability to adjust the seat through the range of upright to flat should be huge.

 

One offbeat thought....what if you bought the biz seat for yourself and kept the wife in EC? Give her an envelope with the price differential in cash at the airport and see how she feels about it. Of course, at that point it's a little late, but it goes with my market-based approach to those things.

 

OTOH, she might just use that cash to pay for the lawyer....:D

[waterbug123]

I only have one concern that would make me upgrade, and, that is sleep.

 

If you experienced people tell me that it's like heck to try and sleep, or, get any quality rest in an EC seat compared to a business/elite class seat, then the extra money to me is worth it. I'm 6' 1" and 197, but with severe back issues.

 

I could care less about the food and most other things. I just want to be able to sleep well, if possible, and, stretch.

 

Although Economy Comfort is better than standard Economy, it is still......Economy. You still have a roughly 18 inch wide seat with about 5 inches of recline. Which means your body is still sleeping in a basically upright position. A better upright position, but still upright.

 

 

This all goes back to my original reply. I got the impression (could be incorrect but it's the impression I got) was that your wife perhaps thought EC would be fine, because she was focused on the fact that it's better than economy and maybe in her mind she believes that that makes it almost like business but lots cheaper. It's not! If on a scale of 1-10 regular economy is a 1 and business is a 10, economy comfort is a 2 or a 3 at most, not an 8 or 9. And at 6'1" AND a bad back? I would not expect to sleep well.

Don't get me wrong, you can manage it (we always do because a viable upgrade option hasn't been available) but I would certainly not expect to sleep well. I am one of those people who just cannot sleep sitting up, even in EC and I'm only 5'3". I've tried Ambien, Unisom, wine, liquor, eye shades, noise reducing headphones, white noise on my ipod, adjusting my sleep time the night before so that I'm good and tired, you name it.... I just don't sleep sitting up, so my transatlantics are a series of 15 minute cat naps which don't equal anything close to quality sleep.

Got one coming up Friday, and while we have Delta global UG certs attached to our tickets, we are wait listed for that and it's not looking good. Looking forward to the trip, dreading the flight. :eek:

[Dave4120]

Thanks everyone. All great comments and advice. Good question as to whether or not Mrs. Dave would let me sit in Business Class and she in EC, along with giving her the $798 price difference to do as she pleases.

 

Anyway, I will make a final decision by bedtime tonight.

 

I appreciate all of your comments and advice, but most of all, as I've mentioned many times before, your patience with me.

 

 

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[Bowie MeMe]

Thanks everyone. All great comments and advice. Good question as to whether or not Mrs. Dave would let me sit in Business Class and she in EC, along with giving her the $798 price difference to do as she pleases.

 

Anyway, I will make a final decision by bedtime tonight.

 

I appreciate all of your comments and advice, but most of all, as I've mentioned many times before, your patience with me.

 

 

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Anyway, here is one vote for sharing the decision. I (a wife of 46 years) tend to be a tad bit more resistant and resentful when "given" a decision by midnight! You opened it up for discussion Dave when you asked Mrs. Dave. If you didn't want her input and only her agreeing with you, you should have just done it! Now I think a chat before the decision is in order and that the decision does not matter as much as the process. As a local Pastor says on our radio -- Not a sermon -- just a thought! Good Luck Dave whatever decision you make.

[Zach1213]

along with giving her the $798 price difference to do as she pleases.

 

As someone who has a solid 17 months of marriage behind me (;)), I highly recommend rounding it up to $800 so as not to appear too cheap.

[Dave4120]

I think all my years with Mrs. Dave, along with me being at a bit of a disadvantage because the Mrs. is a Social Worker/Physco Therapist and according to them, never wrong, I will round up that $798 to $800 if I upgrade.

 

I could always upgrade, plead I didn't know what I was doing, then let her help me for the next time.

 

 

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[Algebralovr]

We flew from O'Hare to Venice, with a fast transfer in Zurich in June, followed by Istanbul to Chicago via Frankfurt. I was paying for a family of 5, and when they offered us an upgrade at the gate for the first leg from Chicago to Zurich for $500 per person, I didn't want to spend the cash and figured "how bad could it be?"

 

After we got home, DH and I decided that the next time we have that long a flight, we will book business at a minimum no matter what. Coach is just fine for a 3 to 4 hour flight within the US. For the really long flight? I'll spend the extra cash. I won't pay it for the kids, but by the time we can do another trip overseas, the kids should have jobs and can upgrade if they decide they want to.

 

One major recommendation: if you have a dietary requirements, make sure you pre-order a meal ahead of time! Next time, we definitely will!

[Dave4120]

Thanks for the advice on your long flight. I think we are somewhat fortunate that on Delta, we fly from JFK to Barcelona and back non-stop. I don't know if I would want to fly into London, France or anywhere else first, then, switch planes again before arriving in Barcelona. Seems like plenty of additional stress.

[Bowie MeMe]

I think all my years with Mrs. Dave, along with me being at a bit of a disadvantage because the Mrs. is a Social Worker/Physco Therapist and according to them, never wrong, I will round up that $798 to $800 if I upgrade.

 

I could always upgrade, plead I didn't know what I was doing, then let her help me for the next time.

 

 

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Said like a true married man!:p

[fbgd]

I won't pay it for the kids

 

I really don't understand people who say such things. It's treating your kids as second class citizens! Would you go to a 3 Michelin Star restaurant and give your kids $20 to go to McDonalds? Put them up in the Hampton Inn whilst you go to the Four Seasons?

 

It's strange because it seems to be something I never see or hear of back in Europe where I'm from. As a family growing up we always flew in the same class of travel and I think my parents would have been mortified doing it any other way.

[waterbug123]

offered us an upgrade at the gate.... for $500 per person

 

After we got home, DH and I decided that the next time we have that long a flight, we will book business at a minimum no matter what... the kids should have jobs and can upgrade if they decide they want to.

 

 

Please note: It may depend on the airline, but I would not count on upgrades to business routinely being available for just $500. To buy a ticket in Biz is typically much, much higher, and "upgrades" are often highly restrictive.... you either need to have paid a much higher economy fare class to begin, or have upgrade certificates as a perk of being an elite level frequent flyer, etc. etc. Sure, sometimes, they will offer something like you got at the gate but in my experience that is extremely rare, so just didn't want you thinking that it's the kind of thing that's always available if you want it. ;)

[Zach1213]

I really don't understand people who say such things. It's treating your kids as second class citizens! Would you go to a 3 Michelin Star restaurant and give your kids $20 to go to McDonalds? Put them up in the Hampton Inn whilst you go to the Four Seasons?

 

It's strange because it seems to be something I never see or hear of back in Europe where I'm from. As a family growing up we always flew in the same class of travel and I think my parents would have been mortified doing it any other way.

 

When I was flying home from Austin on Thursday night, I watched a movie called "Bad Words" on my iPad, with Jason Bateman as a guy competing against kids in a spelling bee. He befriends a young Indian kid in coach on the plane whose dad is flying up in First Class. Then, at the motel, he bumps in to the kid again whose dad is staying at the 4-star hotel down the street while the kid is in the crappy motel.

 

That's how I picture this ;)

[Algebralovr]

I really don't understand people who say such things. It's treating your kids as second class citizens! Would you go to a 3 Michelin Star restaurant and give your kids $20 to go to McDonalds? Put them up in the Hampton Inn whilst you go to the Four Seasons?

 

It's strange because it seems to be something I never see or hear of back in Europe where I'm from. As a family growing up we always flew in the same class of travel and I think my parents would have been mortified doing it any other way.

 

No, it is not treating kids as second class citizens. My children are adults, and no longer depend on mom and dad to pay for everything. If they were younger, there is no way that I would expect them to be in a different class, but I've already told them that if we foot the bill for another expensive trip, I will pay for the basics and they can pay for enhancements. I see nothing wrong with telling my adult children, "I'm booking myself into a balcony stateroom. The interior is $XXX per person. If you wish to upgrade, please call the TA with your credit card number. Similarly, airfare is $XXXX. If you wish to upgrade, please contact the airline/travel agent with your credit card." We work for the little luxury items. I teach an extra class on top of my day job to pay for things such as cruises. They can learn to make similar decisions.

 

Besides, I'm pretty sure most children would prefer McDonald's over a 3 star restaurant! On our first cruise, in 2010, my then 15 year old was so annoyed by the pace and length of time spent at dinner in the MDR, that he asked for and received permission to eat dinner at the buffet after the second night.

 

Please do not judge when you know nothing about the situation.

[Algebralovr]

Please note: It may depend on the airline, but I would not count on upgrades to business routinely being available for just $500. To buy a ticket in Biz is typically much, much higher, and "upgrades" are often highly restrictive.... you either need to have paid a much higher economy fare class to begin, or have upgrade certificates as a perk of being an elite level frequent flyer, etc. etc. Sure, sometimes, they will offer something like you got at the gate but in my experience that is extremely rare, so just didn't want you thinking that it's the kind of thing that's always available if you want it. ;)

 

Very true! We were not offered such an upgrade on the way home!

[6rugrats]

I really don't understand people who say such things. It's treating your kids as second class citizens!

 

Well, let them put in the work to earn the money to pay for the trip, and then they can decide how the money is spent. This does not make them "second class citizens". If they want to ride upfront, they can earn the money to pay for it themselves. These weren't young children that were being discussed. They are lucky parents are paying for them to travel in the first place.

 

Would you go to a 3 Michelin Star restaurant and give your kids $20 to go to McDonalds?

Absolutely. None of them would enjoy the restaurant, but they'd find something they like at McDonalds (and it's not for lack of trying by exposing them to many different types of food).

 

Have travel planned for December. I've already gotten a free upgrade, but the almost adult "children" will be riding in coach. And, they don't care. They are thrilled to be coming. They have enough miles to upgrade themselves, but they'd rather save them for an award ticket later.

Edited September 30, 2014 by 6rugrats

[Algebralovr]

Thank you 6rugrats, I'm glad to hear from another parent. I think they will always be "the kids" to us.

 

You understand our feelings exactly!

 

To the OP, Dave, just how long is that flight from JFK? Are either of you likely to end up with swollen ankles from having your legs down for so long? That is another consideration we have for the next time we have a long flight. I was surprised to find that my ankles and feet were quite swollen at the end of the long flight.

[RVRoadie]

Flying is unpleasant, no matter where you sit (unless you are on your own private jet). $1,600 to be slightly more comfortable in a miserable situation doesn't sound like money well spent. Blow it in the spa, that will help you forget the flight.

[Dave4120]

Hello Barb, and, Tom and Rocki;

 

Our to Barcelona is as follows;

 

Syracuse to BCN..........1-hour flight from Syr to JFK, then, we have a layover at JFK for

7 1/2 hours before we leave for Barcelona from JFK at 7:45-PM

which is an 8-hour flight, and, arrive in Barcelona the next

morning at 9:40-AM their time.

 

BCN to Syr.................8 3/4 hours from BCN back to JFK. Then a 5 hour and 20

minute layover, before flying from JFK back to Syracuse.

 

I do not get super bad swollen ankles, but I've seen them swollen on occasion, so, I assume it will happen. Never knew this decision could be this difficult as many people, just like anything else, have different opinions and preferences. Was hoping it would be a lopsided decision one way or the other. lol

 

Thanks

Dave

[FlyerTalker]

I think all my years with Mrs. Dave, along with me being at a bit of a disadvantage because the Mrs. is a Social Worker/Physco Therapist

I have CC set up to page at 30 posts, so this one keeps coming up first on page 2. In reading the bolded words, I am SO relieved that you didn't omit the final word.....:D

 

And yes....purchase decisions can be blatantly obvious or deceptively complex. One of the inherent joys/complications of capitalism (depending on your point of view and personality).

 

In whatever case your decision ends, I hope you've gotten an appreciation for how it's the value system of each individual that ultimately matters - and the freedom that confers.

[Dave4120]

Well, I'm going to pull the trigger tonight and upgrade to business class, IF, the price is the same, or, when someone suggests if any of the center aisle locations are better than the other on the A-330-300(3L3).

 

AND, since the other day, the price has dropped again when I just checked. They must be having a hard time filling that section.

 

The other day to upgrade to business class was an extra $798 a person. This morning, it is $697.50 a person. This is really crazy, so, if anyone can tell me if one location is better than another I'm going to do it. SeatGuru just said to avoid the last seats in the section because it was against the wall where they prepare food.

 

 

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[Dave4120]

I think I will call Delta vs doing this online as it seems a bit confusing to me.

 

 

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[Algebralovr]

Sounds good, Dave! That lowered price would make me jump on it.

 

I believe you will get lounge access with the business class fare, which will be nice with the long waits in JFK. Doesn't the lounge provide some refreshments? If so, that will save you $30 -$50 in costs at the airport for coffee, lunch and water! It also means fewer people to fight for a chair, a little more to relax, more likely to find an electrical outlet if you need one, and possibly wi-fi access.

[Zach1213]

Sounds good, Dave! That lowered price would make me jump on it.

 

 

 

I believe you will get lounge access with the business class fare, which will be nice with the long waits in JFK. Doesn't the lounge provide some refreshments? If so, that will save you $30 -$50 in costs at the airport for coffee, lunch and water! It also means fewer people to fight for a chair, a little more to relax, more likely to find an electrical outlet if you need one, and possibly wi-fi access.

 

 

There are some lounges that are so busy and cramped, I would rather sit in the common areas. This was the case with the old OneWorld lounge in LAX, or the atrocious AA lounge in São Paulo. So not all lounges are created equal.

[FlyerTalker]

So true. The B10 "closet" at ATL comes to mind first on the small side. JFK T4 gets busy at the afternoon "push", but has an outdoor terrace that lets you soak up the sunshine and some Jet A fumes. Plus, you can do photography without shooting through glass.

[waterbug123]

I believe you will get lounge access with the business class fare, which will be nice with the long waits in JFK. Doesn't the lounge provide some refreshments? If so, that will save you $30 -$50 in costs at the airport for coffee, lunch and water!

 

Yes, if you're traveling in business class to Europe you'll have access to the Delta Sky Clubs. There are complimentary refreshments, but nothing that would constitute a real lunch, just snacks and beverages. Typically you will find:

A full bar, with complimentary water, sodas, beer, wine and liquor, just be careful because only house brands are comped, so be sure to ask before ordering.

A self serve coffee machine for coffee, lattes, tea etc.

Assorted snacks that on any given day might include baby carrots, crackers, hummus, olives, pretzels, nuts, biscoff cookies, or a few other items.

If it's morning you'll find oatmeal with all the toppings, bagels, mini muffins etc. Unlike later in the day, you CAN make a decent breakfast out of the morning selection.

 

The Sky Club at T4 at JFK (OP- I think you said you're going out of JFK??) does have a new section where you can order a real lunch, but it's not part of the complimentary offerings that are typically associated with the Sky Clubs.