Less employees?

[Copper10-8]

Copper 8-10, I rerspect your valuable opinion and always follow your post as an excellent guideline. We were on that cruise also deck 10 aft 091 and our room steward said he had 29 cabins,I assume on the starboard side as that is where I saw him all the time. I don't know the exact number of tables our dinning steward had but the service was difinately off and slow as he and his team were trying as hard as they could but were not keeping up. We ate at several stations and the same was true of all the tables we ate at.Again I don't fault the crew but HAL for not having enough personel to cover the service and or rooms. I emailed Seattle and they did apologize but I do think they better rethink their business model and plan because passengers will only go so far then then they revolt and and your losses will be greater than your savings, its as simple as that. You get what you pay for. They are a good cruise line but airline mentality isn't going to work and foot the bill. They will lose market shaqqre and they have a very definater niche and you will erode that niche if they keep going in the direction they are headed.:):):)

 

Evenin' Red Hot! ;) You make some valid points! I don't doubt that your room steward had more cabins assigned to him (not sure if he had an asst); if you start at A047 on Deck 10 stbd side, go aft incl. the five insides, and stop half-way at the aft facing cabins, you'll come to 29.

 

Look, service in the DR, at least by our steward, was not great. Like I said, he seemed rushed and made mistakes/had to take stuff, read desserts, back one night 'cause things were screwed up. He was very frustrated that evening. We generally don't consume wine on the main DR at dinner however, two of our table mates did (by the bottle) and were not happy with having to look for their wine steward.

[Copper10-8]

thx for your info. The amount of people that your mdr steward had to handle lines up with my experience. I wonder why someone would be saddled with 15 tables if others were only waiting on 5 ;).

 

yw cc

[Tante Amalie]

The perception of lower staffing levels is not your imagination. We've been told by both our cabin and dining stewards that they are now expected to handle more cabins and tables. HAL switched to a different MDR service approach using fewer waiters and more runners a couple years ago as a way to reduce staffing. Unfortunately, it also worsened service. I never blame the individuals, as I believe they truly want to provide good service. They simply can't do it and are frustrated as well.

 

I find it ironic and pathetic that HAL continues to market itself as "white glove" service when they continue to cut quality. It's not just staffing. They have reduced their food quality and entertainment spending. They switched the central supervision of excursions to Carnival and now emphasize cattle car style bus excursions. It's a pity to see a once fine cruise line drop to such poor levels.

[iancal]

We could care less about crew logs on HAL or any other cruise line.

 

The bigger issue is more likely staff deployment and management.

 

We want reasonable service, reasonable food, and a clean cabin with fully functioning plumbing and HVAC. If there is an issue we expect some resolution and not the 'front desk run around game'. We simply want what we paid for and we are not in the least bit shy to vote with or feet and our wallets.

 

So, if we get poor MDR or steward service we don't care about those numbers. We only care that we are not getting what we paid for and what the cruise line told us to expect.

[kazu]

We could care less about crew logs on HAL or any other cruise line.

 

The bigger issue is more likely staff deployment and management.

 

We want reasonable service, reasonable food, and a clean cabin with fully functioning plumbing and HVAC. If there is an issue we expect some resolution and not the 'front desk run around game'. We simply want what we paid for and we are not in the least bit shy to vote with or feet and our wallets.

 

So, if we get poor MDR or steward service we don't care about those numbers. We only care that we are not getting what we paid for and what the cruise line told us to expect.

 

Other than the issues I already addressed that we took care of, we have had no issues with service on HAL. In fact, we have been WELL taken care of. We are happy to show appreciation at the end. Is that because we avoid the largest ships in the fleet (where the crew ratio scares me and we didn't have a good experience?) ? I don't know.

 

Is it how we approach the waiters and wine servers? I don't know.

 

We'll find out soon when we go on the Westerdam but I will say last time we were very pleased.

 

And in a few months we will be comparing it to Oceania and time will tell.

 

So far, our best experience as been on the Prinsendam and there is no question that the crew to passenger ratio is higher and I do think it is deployed to take care of passengers. Of course, on that ship, the asst. dining room managers step in, the cellar masters step in - a lot of people work together on that ship and that is what makes it work.

 

I agree how the crew is deployed matters but on the other hand if the ratio is very low, there is little that can be done

[cruz chic]

Other than the issues I already addressed that we took care of, we have had no issues with service on HAL. In fact, we have been WELL taken care of. We are happy to show appreciation at the end. Is that because we avoid the largest ships in the fleet (where the crew ratio scares me and we didn't have a good experience?) ? I don't know.

 

Is it how we approach the waiters and wine servers? I don't know.

 

We'll find out soon when we go on the Westerdam but I will say last time we were very pleased.

 

And in a few months we will be comparing it to Oceania and time will tell.

 

So far, our best experience as been on the Prinsendam and there is no question that the crew to passenger ratio is higher and I do think it is deployed to take care of passengers. Of course, on that ship, the asst. dining room managers step in, the cellar masters step in - a lot of people work together on that ship and that is what makes it work.

 

I agree how the crew is deployed matters but on the other hand if the ratio is very low, there is little that can be done

 

I've had 2 good experiences on the NA and one that was not stellar in 2012. I have also had great experiences and not so great experiences on ships both hal and princess. I don't understand how the way you approach people would make the slightest bit of difference unless you are a total arce. I fully believe that if you have good management at the top that carries down the food chain and if you have less stellar management it's going to flow downhill. I would expect the Prinsendam to be a better experience since you are paying a premium for that. Give me a big ship any day. It gets tiresome to hear that if they have a less than positive experience it must be something the cruiser is doing to influence that i.e how you approach people. Some people might believe they are wonderful but actually may be abrasive as heck.

Edited January 11, 2015 by cruz chic

[kazu]

I've had 2 good experiences on the NA and one that was not stellar in 2012. I have also had great experiences and not so great experiences on ships both hal and princess. I don't understand how the way you approach people would make the slightest bit of difference unless you are a total arce. I fully believe that if you have good management at the top that carries down the food chain and if you have less stellar management it's going to flow downhill. I would expect the Prinsendam to be a better experience since you are paying a premium for that. Give me a big ship any day.

 

Well, I didn't say it was how we approached them, I just said it was a possibility and speaking as someone who worked in the service business for a few years, yes, it can make a difference in how people treat those who are taking care of them.

 

They appreciate civility and good manners. Nothing new to you I am sure.

 

I have seen and/or overheard lots of lacking in that regard, so yes, I think it can make a difference - might not always, but it can.

 

You can have the big ships, I'll stick with the smaller or the Vistas if the itinerary moves me.

 

Each to their own:D

[cruz chic]

Well, I didn't say it was how we approached them, I just said it was a possibility and speaking as someone who worked in the service business for a few years, yes, it can make a difference in how people treat those who are taking care of them.

 

They appreciate civility and good manners. Nothing new to you I am sure.

 

I have seen and/or overheard lots of lacking in that regard, so yes, I think it can make a difference - might not always, but it can.

 

You can have the big ships, I'll stick with the smaller or the Vistas if the itinerary moves me.

 

Each to their own:D

 

Ok I guess I was confused when you said - is it how we approach people - I don't know? There are many, many people that have worked in customer service for years and are the rudest people I've ever met. Maybe it's different in smaller cities. After working for over 30 years with good and bad bosses I can tell you that it definetly affects productivity. Bullies do more damage then they know. People will work hard for someone they respect and not someone they are afriad of.

[iancal]

We have never had a service issue on HAL, or any other cruise line for that matter. They have all been very good.

 

Only one cabin problem ever-with an NCL cruise that was taken care of very quickly. I spent many years in a senior management role in Customer Service. The NCL response, and subsequent management follow up represented the best that I have ever seen in the hospitality arena.

[bahrain_not_dubai!]

Can I just say that after reading everyone's replies I think it is quite a shame. This problem is obviously endemic throughout the HAL fleet and we were not the only ones to experience this. We heard it quite a few times on the Volendam also, and had it not been for this situation I sure think we would have had enjoyed our cruise a lot more. The fact that the Volendam was only carrying 1,250 passengers makes it worse (fewer than normal). Everything else was to my satisfaction (including our room steward, best we've ever had), but the dining room experience marred an otherwise great cruise.

 

HAL can truly have a premium product if and when they choose to sort this out. Until then, it really dilutes their product (which I otherwise love) in my eyes, and is a deal breaker.

Edited January 11, 2015 by bahrain_not_dubai!

[cruz chic]

Can I just say that after reading everyone's replies I think it is quite a shame. This problem is obviously endemic throughout the HAL fleet and we were not the only ones to experience this. We heard it quite a few times on the Volendam also, and had it not been for this situation I sure think we would have had enjoyed our cruise a lot more. The fact that the Volendam was only carrying 1,250 passengers makes it worse (fewer than normal). Everything else was to my satisfaction (including our room steward, best we've ever had), but the dining room experience marred an otherwise great cruise.

 

HAL can truly have a premium product if and when they choose to sort this out. Until then, it really dilutes their product (which I otherwise love) in my eyes, and is a deal breaker.

With all due respect hal is not a premium cruiseline.

[earljr]

We have never had a service issue on HAL, or any other cruise line for that matter. They have all been very good.

 

QUOTE]

 

Wish I could say the same

[CowPrincess]

Well, I didn't say it was how we approached them, I just said it was a possibility and speaking as someone who worked in the service business for a few years, yes, it can make a difference in how people treat those who are taking care of them.

 

They appreciate civility and good manners. Nothing new to you I am sure.

 

I have seen and/or overheard lots of lacking in that regard, so yes, I think it can make a difference - might not always, but it can.

 

>SNIP<

 

Kazu I mostly agree, though it appears there are more and more complaints about poor MDR service which I do not dispute. I do know, though, that one person I cruise with occasionally always has complaints about her cabin stewards. Even when we have the same stewards, she has complaints while I am quite happy with them. I now understand why, as I watched some of her interaction with our stewards on our last cruise. No "please", no "thank you", just "put that over there" and "do this", "do that". No smiles, no appreciation, no acknowledgement that the person is a person. So I suspect that sometimes (not always, but sometimes) a customer who is pleasant, smiles, says please and thank you, encourages the steward(s) to work a bit harder.

 

>SNIP< There are many, many people that have worked in customer service for years and are the rudest people I've ever met. Maybe it's different in smaller cities. After working for over 30 years with good and bad bosses I can tell you that it definetly affects productivity. Bullies do more damage then they know. People will work hard for someone they respect and not someone they are afriad of.

 

Here's the problem I have with that (though I'm not sure how "bullies" got into the thread). The stewards should be working for the customer, regardless of what the organizational chart says. That is "Customer Service 101". That used to be standard on HAL.

[cruz chic]

 

 

Here's the problem I have with that (though I'm not sure how "bullies" got into the thread). The stewards should be working for the customer, regardless of what the organizational chart says. That is "Customer Service 101". That used to be standard on HAL.

 

I was speaking about how employee moral is affected by upper management. I'm sorry you struggled with that. Yes, I understand that they should be working for the customer. I think that pretty crystal clear. When employees are happy they will work harder for a company. I think that's pretty hard to dispute.

[redhot1]

Copper, as a side note I am happy to see your were with us on the NY cruise and you were crusing and not working, which changes the perspective of everything. We agree on most of our points, we had a great cruise and had a lot of fun,I do wish they had had the celebration in the main showroom instead of the LIdo, personel point. I hope you enjoyed your relation and time away even tho you were on a cruise.:):):)

[Copper10-8]

Copper, as a side note I am happy to see your were with us on the NY cruise and you were crusing and not working, which changes the perspective of everything. We agree on most of our points, we had a great cruise and had a lot of fun,I do wish they had had the celebration in the main showroom instead of the LIdo, personel point. I hope you enjoyed your relation and time away even tho you were on a cruise.:):):)

 

Evenin' Red Hot; Yes, we had a great time on the NY cruise on VEDM and enjoyed ourselves. We actually wound up staying in the Crow's Nest for the countdown on NY Eve. See you on the next one!

[PathfinderEss]

Well, I didn't say it was how we approached them, I just said it was a possibility and speaking as someone who worked in the service business for a few years, yes, it can make a difference in how people treat those who are taking care of them.

 

They appreciate civility and good manners. Nothing new to you I am sure.

 

I have seen and/or overheard lots of lacking in that regard, so yes, I think it can make a difference - might not always, but it can.

 

You can have the big ships, I'll stick with the smaller or the Vistas if the itinerary moves me.

 

Each to their own:D

 

I agree with your thinking, it makes a big difference in how you treat people. Politeness and respectfulness always goes a long ways.

Edited January 12, 2015 by PathfinderEss

[cruz chic]

I agree with your thinking, it makes a big difference in how you treat people. Politeness and respectfulness always goes a long ways.

 

Yes, I don't think there is any debate on that. That however, doesn't fix internal problems. Either that, or are you saying everyone that has problems with service is not being polite and respectful?

[serendipity1499]

 

You must have misunderstood. I am going to ask for the exact numbers when I am on board on the 18th.

 

I agree there is are things that are posted these boards that are less than accurate ;)

 

Since Copper 10-8 is a member of the crew.. Some of us still do not understand why you would not believe that his post is completely accurate? I have never known Copper to mislead any one on this board.. I would believe what he says over & above many other posters on this board..

[serendipity1499]

No, I don't believe what is handed out in the cruise log is always accurate. I will ask on January 18th on my upcoming charter.

 

On the 2014 LRBC charter the cruise log listed the ship with the number of passengers given on the Nieuw Amsterdam official stats. It absolutely wasn't true for the LRBC charter. Every single cabin is sold, many, many at full capacity of 4 persons per cabin. There is only one person that I know of that travels in as a single. The charter is just too expensive (it is about $2700 pp for a low end balcony cabin, so at $5400 for 7 days for a single, it is just too expensive for most). I had heard there were about 2500 passengers on board, not the 2100 as listed on the cruise log. I will check to see what is accurate!

 

Are you aware that Copper 10-8 is a crew member? Some of us still do not understand why you would not believe that his post is completely accurate? I have never known Copper to mislead any one on this board.. I would believe what he says over & above many other posters on this board..[/size]

[ABoatNerd]

Very interesting thread and topic.

 

As a (past) regular on Celebrity, we too have noticed a significant reduction in staff on our last 4 Celebrity cruises. The main dining and room stewards have been reduced the most. The trend is downwards in service. Our cruise on Infinity to South America in Jan 2015 was a very clear example of stressed out staff working so hard to service guests.

 

The corporate trend is to reduce staff everywhere - cruises, restaurants etc - BUT ask customers to pay MORE.

 

I for one will not pay more for less service (and less product), hence I have no cruises booked nor do we eat out anymore.

 

If people continue to be "obedient consumers", corporations will continue this trend while raising prices.

 

ABoatNerd

[rjrpar]

It certainly feels that way. Service to the cabins seems more stretched; the dining stewards seem more rushed. It takes a lot longer to get waited on in a lounge, and you are not approached for a refill as soon as you are on empty, as was once the practice. The cocktail stewards don't have the time to keep track of their patrons any more.

 

 

It more than feel, it's a fact that certain jobs have been cutback, resulting in slower service. Too many people prefer lower fares than good service. We get what we pay for.

[AncientWanderer]

We've sailed with a lot of different lines and have come to the conclusion it's not so much the cruise line that matters, because they all seem to bean count, but it's the hotel manager on the ship that makes a whole lot of difference. Some ships just seem to be really inefficient in all departments across the board and some are really tight ships.

 

Just thought I'd toss that out, because DH and I have observed this and discussed it over the years. But there probably are cuts in staffing as well. They always seems to be tinkering with cutting costs. Some cuts stick and some don't.

 

(I almost called them "crew cuts," before I realized that's the hairstyle!)

Edited July 15, 2015 by AncientWanderer

[Lizzie68]

We've sailed with a lot of different lines and have come to the conclusion it's not so much the cruise line that matters, because they all seem to bean count, but it's the hotel manager on the ship that makes a whole lot of difference. Some ships just seem to be really inefficient in all departments across the board and some are really tight ships.

 

Just thought I'd toss that out, because DH and I have observed this and discussed it over the years. But there probably are cuts in staffing as well. They always seems to be tinkering with cutting costs. Some cuts stick and some don't.

 

(I almost called them "crew cuts," before I realized that's the hairstyle!)

 

Oh so true. The Hotel Manager can have a very negative effect across the ship especially if he is disliked by his crew and things just start falling apart because the efficiency is just not there.

[iancal]

Agree completely.

 

We do not have an emotional tie to any cruise line. Ship is often more important to us that the cruise line. We have found that in general the service, crew, food, etc. is about the same on the 3 cruise lines that we tend to favour.

 

We often read the HAL, Celebrity, or Princess boards where some posters wax poetic about how much better the crew or service is on that particular cruise line. This has not been our experience though we have seen glaring differences between ships of the same cruise line.

Edited July 15, 2015 by iancal