Foggy in Tampa

[relic937]

I was one of the over 2000 passengers that was left standing at the port by RCCL. Let me start by stating I understand that Mother Nature cannot be controlled. However the problem I have is the comments that were made to us by RC employees. We were giving a list of hotels and other places to stay on Monday afternoon at approximately 4:30 PM. We were told to book any room that we could find up to $250 and that when we boarded the ship the next day the room cost would be taken care of. They even gave us a note with the RC 800 number and said if we had a problem to call this number and RC would be glad to help.

 

While all of this was going on I noticed that suddenly there was probably 20 or 30 law enforcement officers stationed in front of the terminal. Now being an active deputy for over 30 years I had to wonder if they were expecting a riot or something . They were there in force I think just to be seen as if to say "no problems please just leave"!!

 

We were lucky enough to be able ti make our reservation over the phone with the Marriott Waterside. After we checked in I called Crown and Anchor and was told once again that we would be reimbursed for our cost. We had a nice night at the hotel with anticipation of cruising the next morning . Thank God we had the forethought to have the hotel hold a room for us the next night because I did not have a warm fussy feeling about the next day . We were told to stay away from the terminal until we received further instruction . It was not until approximately 3:00pm we received word that the cruise had been cancelled.

 

We again contacted Royal and suddenly everything had changed . We were told that only the people who had booked Choice Air would be reimbursed . When I explained what we were told at the port RC's answer was that the employees at the port were only contract agents and did not truly understand the rules . (Uh they were wearing RC clothing and name tags so they were at that time RC reps)

 

But on a good note they took very good care of Urban Myer and the Ohio State Buckeyes who were on the stranded ship tryng to come in. They even had the power to get to Coast Guard ships bring them into port through all that fog late on Tuesday evening. Our tax money at work!!!

[relic937]

We are still working on a resolution , so far all we have heard from Royal and our insure my trip insurance is that it is not their fault . Guess you could say we. Are still in a fog .

[RADICALBURN]

Key West would be a better port of departure for certain times of the year when Tampa fogs in too much...........................imo...........................RADICAL

[AlanAllyn]

I am not so sure that Royal doesn't read these boards. CEO Michael Bayley, when he was head of Celebrity (the last few years) did have people reading and sometimes responding as "Official Celebrity". His office responded very quickly to any emails sent to him. Most RCI email addresses are first initial, followed by last name @rccl.com

[Colorado Babe]

What a disappointment that your cruise vacation was cancelled, if RC informed there passengers that they would pay for hotel, I believe they should honor what they said. Please keep us posted on outcome. Good luck!

[relic937]

Please understand we are not mad at Royal . Disappointed yes but we will get over it . We are old enough to believe that your word is your bond .

 

Tampa is a beautiful city and we probably would not have had the opportunity to visit this beautiful city if not for Royal Caribbean . I cannot speak enough kind words for the folks at the Marriott Waterside .They truly know the meaning of going the extra mile . Many families spent Tuesday in the lobby there because they had no where to go . The lobby literally looked like The Atlanta airport on a bad day .

 

Royal is our cruise line of choice and as I stated earlier we will not stop cruising with them . As a matter of fact we have another cruise booked out of Tampa in April ,also a cruise on the Freedom out of Port Canaveral . This will be our retirement cruise and we are taking our family with us .

 

So to end this let me say that we are OK with whatever Royal or Insure my Trip decides to do . We met a lot of very nice people and refuse to let this leave a bad taste in our mouth . Bon Voyage !

[kccrzr]

Based on what you have said occurred, it seems to me the people at the port are agents of RC and have apparent (if not actual) authority to act on RCI's part whether it is to the benefit of RC or RC later decides to its detriment. The fact that they wear RC clothing further reinforces their apparent authority and clearly they make decisions on RC's behalf during the embarkation and disembarkation process.

 

In almost every state, even contracts which state that any amendments must be made in writing, can be amended by oral agreement.

 

You (and others) reasonably relied on what you were told by RC's agent, so RC should step up to the plate and make it right - it always can make a contractual claim against the employer of those people if it believes those people overstepped their bounds.

[meansun]

I work downtown and was at an event last night at Terminal 3. I was very surprised to see the ship still there in port. Actually it's been docked there since Monday. It seems more than a fog issue to me because last night it was not foggy as bad as it has been all week. I will say this, RC usually steps up and does the right thing. I hope you finally get on that ship and have the cruise of your lifetimes. As for lawyering up, I think that is a little bit much for this whole thing IMO because even if the OP stayed at that hotel for 4 day at $1000, the lawyer is going to cost much more than that and all they would do is most likely live this nightmare for the next 2-3 years.

[cruisenfever]

I work downtown and was at an event last night at Terminal 3. I was very surprised to see the ship still there in port. Actually it's been docked there since Monday. It seems more than a fog issue to me because last night it was not foggy as bad as it has been all week. I will say this, RC usually steps up and does the right thing. I hope you finally get on that ship and have the cruise of your lifetimes. As for lawyering up, I think that is a little bit much for this whole thing IMO because even if the OP stayed at that hotel for 4 day at $1000, the lawyer is going to cost much more than that and all they would do is most likely live this nightmare for the next 2-3 years.

Brilliance did not arrive into Tampa until Tuesday evening.

[BND]

I work downtown and was at an event last night at Terminal 3. I was very surprised to see the ship still there in port. Actually it's been docked there since Monday. It seems more than a fog issue to me because last night it was not foggy as bad as it has been all week. I will say this, RC usually steps up and does the right thing. I hope you finally get on that ship and have the cruise of your lifetimes. As for lawyering up, I think that is a little bit much for this whole thing IMO because even if the OP stayed at that hotel for 4 day at $1000, the lawyer is going to cost much more than that and all they would do is most likely live this nightmare for the next 2-3 years.

 

It's still there because the next cruise isn't until tomorrow (Saturday). The cruise that was supposed to depart Monday was cancelled because the ship came in late Tues and has been sitting there with only the crew and staff onboard so they will not move it again until tomorrow when the next passengers board. Between them getting in late Tuesday night and the short itinerary, plus the fog forecast for those next couple of days, the cruise was cancelled. Hopefully, the fog will not be an issue tomorrow.

 

We're on Vision Nov 30 for 10 nights and hopefully we won't have fog issues, especially for our return since we're on the Auto Train and have to drive to Sanford. DH and I have already discussed it and if we miss the train we will either drive or try to rebook the train and deal with it. We never even considered cancelling like a couple of posters on the original thread did, just because it "might" be foggy. Geez, there also might be a hurricane, but you won't know that ahead of time.

Edited February 27, 2015 by BND

[ShannonSC2]

OP thank you for letting me know. I am glad of any heads up of things that could possibly happen. I would be furious and upset if my cruise got cancelled at the last minute and if Royal (or any cruise line) told me that they would pay for my hotel stay for the night and they would reimburse me. Now they are saying they won't. You have every reason to be upset. I hope you get this resolved quick. Keep us posted on what happens.

[meansun]

That makes a lot of sense now. Thanks!

[loubetti]

What I don't understand is this:

 

Tampa fog is not a frequent occurrence, except mostly in winter (I live on the east coast, so Tampa residents respond and correct me as necessary).

 

Anyway, when you do have debacles like this occur, they are horrendously costly to the cruise lines and passengers.

 

Why can't ships be equipped with infra red (IR) vision systems that can clearly see through fog? This would include a screen in the bridge, and infra red binoculars used by officers.

 

We have vision systems like this in aviation, where you can land a plane in dense fog. They are not common, as most airline aircraft have computers that can "autoland" the aircraft in zero-zero conditions. However there are many aircraft that cannot autoland.

 

Here's an example of such systems:

 

http://www.sensorsinc.com/applications/general/aircraft-landing-systems

 

We also have "synthetic" vision, and this is software based:

 

https://www.foreflight.com/synthetic-vision/

 

Combined with the ship's radar, I cannot see how such systems could not allow a ship to dock safely. Frankly, IR and radar should be enough to do it, synthetic vision is best reserved for aircraft, but you can see what is available.

 

[RDC1]

yes quite... Are you a lawyer, ummm NO.

 

When is the last time you went to court and told a judge you had a verbal agreement, you would get laughed at and your case dimissed.

 

Plain and simple.

 

By the way, therenis a REASON, why even the shadiest of attorneys are not picking up any cases from this, want to guess why?

 

I am not an attorney, but I did have a staff of them working for me (I was in charge of contracting for a pharmaceutical company).

 

While there are laws (Statute of Frauds) that places limitations on oral contracts. The following types of contracts need to be executed in writing:

 

real estate sales;

 

agreements to pay someone else's debts;

 

contracts that take longer than one year to complete;

 

real estate leases for longer than one year;

 

contracts for over a certain amount of money (depending on the state);

 

contracts that will last longer than the life of the party performing the contract; and

 

a transfer of property at the death of the party performing the contract.

 

 

None of which are applicable in this situation.

 

The biggest issue about oral agreements is for the plantiff to be able to prove the nature of the agreement. Most of the time the lack of proof is why claims of oral agreements fail.

 

In this case you have supporting documentation in the form of the sheets handed out, as well as literally thousands of witnesses. Even now you do not have RCL denying what was said. They are only saying that the personnel did not have the authority to say it. Of course you even had RCL personnel at Crown and Anchor also telling people that they would be reimbursed.

 

They do have legal standing and are enforceable if evidence exists, especially if:

 

One party partially complied with its terms; or

The plaintiff relied on the defendant's promise and suffered some detriment as a result.

 

 

In this case you have both.

 

As for he reason you would not have attorney's involved with this is not due to the viability of oral agreements, but is instead due to the dollar value ($250 per passenger at most, $250 per cabin more likely). It would only be worth an attorney's time if done as a class action. Not a good fit for that.

Edited February 27, 2015 by RDC1

[jp30338]

I am not an attorney

 

Exactly.

 

But you stayed at a Holiday inn last night, huh?

[LMaxwell]

If Royal communicated to me at the terminal to get a room on their dime, and C&A verified that, I would expect Royal to pay. Anything less than their word is just bad business in my opinion.

[RDC1]

I am not an attorney

 

Exactly.

 

But you stayed at a Holiday inn last night, huh?

 

In your case I would expect that even if you had a written contract you would get laughed out of court.

[chengkp75]

What I don't understand is this:

 

Tampa fog is not a frequent occurrence, except mostly in winter (I live on the east coast, so Tampa residents respond and correct me as necessary).

 

Anyway, when you do have debacles like this occur, they are horrendously costly to the cruise lines and passengers.

 

Why can't ships be equipped with infra red (IR) vision systems that can clearly see through fog? This would include a screen in the bridge, and infra red binoculars used by officers.

 

We have vision systems like this in aviation, where you can land a plane in dense fog. They are not common, as most airline aircraft have computers that can "autoland" the aircraft in zero-zero conditions. However there are many aircraft that cannot autoland.

 

Here's an example of such systems:

 

http://www.sensorsinc.com/applications/general/aircraft-landing-systems

 

We also have "synthetic" vision, and this is software based:

 

https://www.foreflight.com/synthetic-vision/

 

Combined with the ship's radar, I cannot see how such systems could not allow a ship to dock safely. Frankly, IR and radar should be enough to do it, synthetic vision is best reserved for aircraft, but you can see what is available.

 

 

I think there are several differences between ships and aircraft. I would say that one would be the delay in response time between command and effect both in propulsion and steering. An aircraft (and I'm just a passenger) responds to command inputs far quicker than a ship does. When a ship's wheel is put over, the rudder responds within a certain time limit (generally 60 seconds from hard over to hard over), but the ship, depending on speed, wind, current, and hull design, can take another minute or two before there is a noticeable response of heading change.

 

Another area of concern in low visibility is the "shadow" area ahead of the ship. Depending on ship design, there is an area dead ahead of the ship where no one on the bridge has visible sight of, and where the radar may or may not have sight of. This is caused by the obstruction of both sight and radar by the ship itself, and can be as little as 50 feet, to 300+ feet. Anything that enters this "blind spot" on one side of the ship, you just hope to see it soon on the other side, or you've just run it over. Combine this with the slow response time of the ship, and you can have problems "dodging" things that suddenly show up in the fog.

 

Waterways are not as regulated as airways. When a ship is on "instruments", there is not always a traffic control tower checking that everyone else around is following the same rules. Sailboats are a particular nemesis of large ships, because many sailboat owners have read the "rules of the road" which states that sail has right of way over power. However, they don't know or care about the rule that says "the vessel constrained by draft" (meaning the cruise ship is constrained to the shipping channel, while the sailboat can go anywhere) has right of way. Small boaters do not always use their lights or radar reflectors.

 

While IR can and is used by USCG cutters for ice location, again this is based on temperature difference, while there may be a log, tree, or partially sunk boat/barge that is at the same temperature as the water that can punch a hole in the ship.

 

It is not so much a problem of navigating the channel to the dock, but seeing everything else out there that you could run into. A similar problem would be bird strike in low visibility for a plane.