Carnival Vista - 3 day CTN CANCELLED

[cruizinisthebest]

i always value your input in areas such as this, as i do the fact you've already done a quick search of CBP and haven't seen any rulings or rule changes.

 

i'm curious exactly what these changes are.

Ditto.

 

 

Hey homie! Lol

 

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[AnnaBeth]

John Heald just posted on his FB page that this is due to the way ships are cleared into the U.S. And that they will no longer be able to offer cruises to nowhere. This will be for all cruise lines, not just carnival.

[Vitamin_Sea]

Thats jacked!! We were considering that one

[chengkp75]

i always value your input in areas such as this, as i do the fact you've already done a quick search of CBP and haven't seen any rulings or rule changes.

 

i'm curious exactly what these changes are.

 

Well, CTN's are considered to be exceptions to the PVSA, like the exception allowing foreign ships to transport passengers between Puerto Rico and the mainland US (until a viable US flag service is created), so I'm not sure what the legal steps are to rescinding this exception, though in today's electronic world, I would expect to see something online, especially as the new rules are taking place in January.

[falkcor]

Well, CTN's are considered to be exceptions to the PVSA, like the exception allowing foreign ships to transport passengers between Puerto Rico and the mainland US (until a viable US flag service is created), so I'm not sure what the legal steps are to rescinding this exception, though in today's electronic world, I would expect to see something online, especially as the new rules are taking place in January.

 

as would i, and hence why i am curious. if true, there should be some substantiation behind the claim that 'Due to recent changes in how ships are cleared into and out of the United States by U.S. officials, certain short duration cruises without a foreign port of call are subject to itinerary changes beginning in 2016. Unfortunately, this means that we will not be permitted to operate cruises-to-nowhere.' but i do not see anything either, upon a cursory search.

[Loonbeam]

I haven't been able to find any changes to the rules, but its not unheard of the cruise lines, etc will be notified ahead of publications..

[CCLMischelle]

I can tell you that the change affects the entire North American cruise industry, not just Carnival.

[cruizinisthebest]

I can tell you that the change affects the entire North American cruise industry, not just Carnival.

 

Damn shame. :confused:

 

Thanks Mischelle.

 

Not a good week for cruising news. Lots of negative changes.

[TexasCruiser52]

I can tell you that the change affects the entire North American cruise industry, not just Carnival.

 

I received the email from Carnival this a.m. We were booked on the March 2016 Liberty CTN. I called & we are now booked on a 5 day Freedom cruise in Jan. It was a painless process. We will do Liberty another time. Guess I better be looking for a replacement for our Dec. 2016 Breeze CTN.

We booked them when they first came out because we had never done a CTN & would have been a nice intro to new Galvestin ships.

[Loonbeam]

When and if the relevant change is posted publicly, please let us know so that we may comment to the appropriate agency...

 

I can tell you that the change affects the entire North American cruise industry, not just Carnival.

[StolidCruiser]

I can tell you that the change affects the entire North American cruise industry, not just Carnival.

 

When and if the relevant change is posted publicly, please let us know so that we may comment to the appropriate agency...

 

When you do, let us know how those "comments" are received.

[falkcor]

I can tell you that the change affects the entire North American cruise industry, not just Carnival.

 

thanks for the clarification. could it be in any way related to the following court case? this is what makes the most sense so far:

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27924754/Bimini.pdf

 

BIMINI SUPERFAST OPERATIONS LLC

d/b/a RESORTS WORLD BIMINI

SUPERFAST CRUISES BAHAMAS,

BIMINI SUPERFAST LIMITED, and

BIMINI SUPERFAST CHARTER LIMITED,

)

 

Case No. ______________

)

Plaintiffs, )

)

v. )

)

THE HON. THOMAS S. WINKOWSKI,

in his official capacity as Acting Commissioner of

U.S. Customs and Border Protection, and

U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION,

 

)

Defendants.

[isaiahsnana]

I will be waiting to see if the Breeze repo to Galveston Changes, since there is a CTN after it.

 

I am booked on that one, my daughter was taking me for an early Christmas Spa - we will be very sad, but have received no cancellation letter yet.

[alphakitty]

Is it really a change or perhaps just an enforcement of the PVSA already in place? It is my understanding that ships are supposed to visit a foreign port when they leave from and return to the US?

[alphakitty]

thanks for the clarification. could it be in any way related to the following court case? this is what makes the most sense so far:

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27924754/Bimini.pdf

 

 

Skimmed the document and yep, this seems to hit the nail on the head. Seems the Bimini line didn't think it was fair to no allow them to do cruises to nowhere while the major cruise lines could. It is more about the crew and the INA. Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).

[undercat]

thanks for the clarification. could it be in any way related to the following court case? this is what makes the most sense so far:

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27924754/Bimini.pdf

 

Skimmed the document and yep, this seems to hit the nail on the head. Seems the Bimini line didn't think it was fair to no allow them to do cruises to nowhere while the major cruise lines could. It is more about the crew and the INA. Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).

 

Thanks for posting this!

 

Interesting, because NCL is owned by Genting Group, the parent of Resorts World Bimini which owns the Bimini Superfast (I may be mixing up the entity names but I think they all roll up under Genting Group). If indeed it was an attempt to say "if the big guys can do it [have an exception to the PVSA], then why can't we?" then it feels like Little Sister pointing at Big Sister receiving a larger slice of cake, and now Papa says NOBODY can have any cake!

 

(mmmmm....cake) :cool:

 

http://www.rwmiami.com/about-resorts-world

 

We were booked on the Vista 3-day CTN as well. This would have been our only chance to sail Vista for the first year of her run, at least. I was looking forward to a quick getaway on a new ship. Ah well, on to the next one.

[chengkp75]

Thanks for posting this!

 

Interesting, because NCL is owned by Genting Group, the parent of Resorts World Bimini which owns the Bimini Superfast (I may be mixing up the entity names but I think they all roll up under Genting Group). If indeed it was an attempt to say "if the big guys can do it [have an exception to the PVSA], then why can't we?" then it feels like Little Sister pointing at Big Sister receiving a larger slice of cake, and now Papa says NOBODY can have any cake!

 

(mmmmm....cake) :cool:

 

http://www.rwmiami.com/about-resorts-world

 

We were booked on the Vista 3-day CTN as well. This would have been our only chance to sail Vista for the first year of her run, at least. I was looking forward to a quick getaway on a new ship. Ah well, on to the next one.

 

Actually, in 2013 when RWB was filing this case, Genting was a minority owner of NCL, having sold control to Apollo Management, and have since divested themselves of most if not all of their holdings in NCL.

 

I believe it was a case where the major cruise lines would have the occasional CTN, but that Bimini was looking to do one a week, or so, and therefore be in direct competition with the small casino boats that operate out of the East and Gulf coasts, and as previously stated (or maybe on one of the other 4-5 threads) are all US flag and US crewed.

[M&T ReadyToCruiseAgain]

Just saw this elsewhere also. Can someone suggest to carnival to extend the TA then? [emoji3][emoji3]

 

Great Idea, we are up for a longer TA cruise on the Vista.

[Loonbeam]

I think JH said they were extending the repo with an early departure, at least as of now.

 

Great Idea, we are up for a longer TA cruise on the Vista.

[sometimes sailor]

I just hope this doesn't apply to all 2 night cruises from NY. I usually book the January 2 nighters on NCL but they pulled the sailings off the website a few weeks ago.

 

I was really looking forward to this sailing and the Sunshine next June.

 

 

 

.... a two night is the same as a three day CTN. You may see CCL move these to non US departures if they feel the customers will get to the departure port.

[MAZ100]

All Cruise to Nowhere have been cancelled for 2016 for all cruise lines in the United States. All cruises starting in 2016 need to aleast stop in 1 port. They no longer can give a cruise that has no port of calls.

It is just not Carnival. It is all cruise lines in all industries in the Unites States only

 

Carnival was the first to info everyone before we read it online.

NCL and RCL has not informed their guest yet on the cancellation. I am still waiting for that confirmation from those 2 cruise lines.

 

See the article below

 

 

No More Cruises To Nowhere Starting From 2016

 

Cruises sailing to nowhere will no longer be available from 2016. The U.S Customs has banned all cruise lines from sailing the short voyages.

 

The new rule that will begin at the start of 2016 will ban cruise ships from sailing to nowhere from American based ports. Often vessels offer short cruises that sail from a home port out to the open ocean and then sail back. these itineraries have been popular with cruisers wanting a quick getaway.

 

One of the main cruise ships affected by the new rule is Carnival Cruise Line’s upcoming Carnival Vista. The new ship was originally schedule to set sail on a 3-day cruise to nowhere from New York in 2016. The cruise line has now cancelled that itinerary and offered compensation to people who have already booked that cruise.

 

Other major cruise ships forced to make changes are the Norwegian Breakaway and Anthem of the Seas. Both ships have scheduled cruises to nowhere during 2016 but the cruise lines have made alternative itineraries.

 

Norwegian Breakaway has three 2-night cruises scheduled from New York early next year that were also cancelled, Norwegian Cruise Line spokeswoman Vanessa Picariello said

 

In a statement, the Cruise Line International Association noted that the job of clearing ships is handled by the Department of Homeland Security.

 

The change only applies to foreign-flagged vessels, but the vast majority of multi-day cruise lines register their ships in countries such as Bermuda, Panama, Malta or the Bahamas, rather than comply with more expensive rules and crew requirements of an American registry.

 

Due to the new rule by U.S. Customs all ships will have to call at least one foreign port of call. This new ban only affects American based ports. Other ports around the world can still offer cruises to nowhere.

In a statement, the Cruise Line International Association noted that the job of clearing ships is handled by the Department of Homeland Security.

The change only applies to foreign-flagged vessels, but the vast majority of multi-day cruise lines register their ships in countries such as Bermuda, Panama, Malta or the Bahamas, rather than comply with more expensive rules and crew requirements of an American registry

Edited June 13, 2015 by MAZ100

[undercat]

Actually, in 2013 when RWB was filing this case, Genting was a minority owner of NCL, having sold control to Apollo Management, and have since divested themselves of most if not all of their holdings in NCL.

 

I believe it was a case where the major cruise lines would have the occasional CTN, but that Bimini was looking to do one a week, or so, and therefore be in direct competition with the small casino boats that operate out of the East and Gulf coasts, and as previously stated (or maybe on one of the other 4-5 threads) are all US flag and US crewed.

 

Thank you for the clarification!

[cruizinisthebest]

Thanks for sharing that article MAZ100.

 

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[Trekker954]

Early posters claimed the CTN's from Baltimore/Norfolk and New Orleans had been cancelled. From the wording of the e-mail saying that it has to do with clearing the ship upon arrival, and given the cruise line's inability to actually state what is meant (like referring to the Jones Act), it looks, feels, and smells like a change in the PVSA, though a quick search of CBP doesn't show any rulings or rule changes in this area.

 

There will be nothing from CBP because it is nothing new. Cruises to nowhere were confirmed to be a violation of INA section 101(a)(15)(D)(i) in 2014. The judge ruled that foreign crew member are not authorized to be employed in the connection with domestic movements of a vessel. It seems CBP has pushed the ruling out nationwide but it is the regulation that should have been followed all along and the cruise lines were circumventing it. ” Cruises to nowhere from U.S. ports are legal under the INA and applicable regulations only if the crew consists of USCs or LPRs. So it is nothing new, just being battled in court.

 

It really was wrong for Carnival to sell bookings to us (yes me too) when they were in violation of Immigration laws.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Trekker954

[Loonbeam]

They had challenged the ruling and expected to get a stay/abeyance... They didn't...

 

There will be nothing from CBP because it is nothing new. Cruises to nowhere were confirmed to be a violation of INA section 101(a)(15)(D)(i) in 2014. The judge ruled that foreign crew member are not authorized to be employed in the connection with domestic movements of a vessel. It seems CBP has pushed the ruling out nationwide but it is the regulation that should have been followed all along and the cruise lines were circumventing it. ” Cruises to nowhere from U.S. ports are legal under the INA and applicable regulations only if the crew consists of USCs or LPRs. So it is nothing new, just being battled in court.

 

It really was wrong for Carnival to sell bookings to us (yes me too) when they were in violation of Immigration laws.