Norovirus outbreak on the Ryndam

[POA1]

Try Goggling it.

 

It didn't work.

[UniPac]

I just love the fact that the cruise ships keep us all safe by isolating for 48 hours (passengers and crew) when a person with noro is contagious for up to two weeks after symptoms subside. I makes us all feel so warm and fuzzy just like a squirt of alcohol on our hands.

 

Could you provide the source of this information?

 

Reading the PDF in a posting just a little before yours should help you both:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=47005501&postcount=36

 

individuals continue to excrete the virus for

several days although infectivity is greatly reduced 48 hours after the symptoms cease

 

They also suggest the cruise lines:

 

They should also be encouraged to

use their cabin en-suite facilities for a further 24 hours (i.e. a total of 72 hours symptom-free).

[Fouremco]

I just love the fact that the cruise ships keep us all safe by isolating for 48 hours (passengers and crew) when a person with noro is contagious for up to two weeks after symptoms subside. I makes us all feel so warm and fuzzy just like a squirt of alcohol on our hands.

 

Try Goggling it. You will find lots of nice information like it lives on counter tops for weeks. In refrigerated food for months, in frozen food even longer and they gave up testing in-ground water after like 6 months because it was still there. Or how about the fact that it mutates so often that even if you have already had it this year you can probably get it again. The second most common disease that you can get right after the common cold. And as others here have said, it's not encapsulated so the alcohol preparations are not very effective. Try reading the label for your Clorox wipes. See if Noro is listed there. I still use them when I board a ship (gotta try something). And of course, no vaccine. Nice little bug huh?

 

I had asked for your specific source because you seemed to be quite dismissive of the 48 hour quarantine imposed on crew members and passengers, in spite of the fact that my past research had determined that this is the CDC's recommended period of isolation.

 

 Exclude ill personnel from work for a minimum of 48 hours after the resolution of symptoms. Once personnel return to work, the importance of performing frequent hand hygiene should be reinforced.

 

It is also the period of time recommended in the document Guidance for the Management of Norovirus Infection in Cruise Ships cited above by UniPac:

 

Enteric Risk Assessment and Infection Control

 

For Passengers and Staff in Enteric Risk groups2 Group A-C

(Older children and adults where hygiene arrangements are unreliable)

(Children under 5 years) (Food handlers and medical staff)

 

Isolate in own cabin from close contact with other passengers and crew until 48hr after symptoms have ceased

 

 

For Other Passengers and Crew

 

Isolate in own cabin from close contact with other passengers and crew until at least 24hr after symptoms have ceased

 

Unless you can provide a better response to my question than "Try Goggling (sic) it", I think I'll choose to put my faith in the foregoing recommendations.

[Ottawa traveller]

I was on this cruise and am continuing on. We ended the cruise one day early and the ship is undergoing a complete cleaning under the supervision of Public Heath officials brought in by Carnival from Spain according to the Hotel Manager. Those of us who are continuing tomorrow are in quite nice rooms in the Radisson Blu Portman near Marble Arch in London. We will return to the ship tomorrow. None of us were sick. One person who is continuing and was sick is in quarantine somewhere else and will only join the ship when he/she is finished quarantine. HAL will fly them to Norway if necessary. We have the senior nurse with us. If any of us gets ill while in London he can treat us but we will be quarantined and flown to the ship after. We got $250 dollars general compensation, refund of one day's credit and a future cruise credit of 25% of our base fare for the two weeks to be used on a booking made by next June but can be used for sailing after that date. HAL is paying our hotel bill tonight and we have some staff from Carnival looking after us at the hotel. Purell apparently does not do too much for norovirus. Our new mantra on the ship is Wash your hands, wash your hands, wash your hands. So far that has worked for me. I am looking forward to the next two weeks. The hotel manager hopes to provide us with the usual HAL experience. The big problem we had was that people did not respect the quarantine. Nothing much HAL could do about that. I hope if anybody arrives at the ship with Norovirus and gets sick, that they do respect the quarantine. Those who were leaving the ship were provided either a hotel at the airport or extra compensation as well as what we got.

 

Leslie

Edited July 3, 2015 by Ottawa traveller

[philsuarez]

Sounds like HAL have done everything in their power to deal with this and look after passengers involved. Not sure what else they could have done under the circumstances. People that can be identified that don't wash hands should be put off ship at next port of call!

[GeneBK]

Ottawa Traveller

 

Thank you so much. I am among many on Ryndam cruises in the following weeks, and we will be following progress with obvious interest.

 

Have they given you an approximate idea of how many passengers were actually stricken? It would be helpful to understand how widespread this kind of thing is.

 

Any updates as your cruise unfolds will be greatly appreciated as well.

 

Here's hoping your next segment will be healthful and wonderful!!

[Ottawa traveller]

They won't tell us numbers. I am sure many people didn't report. However, some days we heard there were 30 or so new cases. They will have to report probably to CDC so we may find out there.

Leslie

[DaveOKC]

They won't tell us numbers. I am sure many people didn't report. However, some days we heard there were 30 or so new cases. They will have to report probably to CDC so we may find out there.

Leslie

 

Not necessarily. Our May 1-15 Maasdam cruise reportedly had 200 cases, but I never did see any report on the CDC website. Our cruise ended in Canada, so perhaps that is why no report?

[philsuarez]

Was it obvious on board that a huge amount of people were ill or was it very much business as usual apart from code red procedures, extra cleaning etc? I leave on 18/07 and I read somewhere pools and tubs were all shut? Thanks for posts and info.

[amomx5]

We just got off the Ryndam today. Yes we were offered a full refund at the pier on June 20th if we chose not to go. However we then would have to find something to do for 2 weeks or pay the difference to fly home. Considering we found out that it was not just the cruise before ours that had it but also the cruise before that. It would have been nice to have been contacted by HAL before we left home about the situation. It got worse as the 2 weeks went on. By the end you were not allowed to touch merchandise in the stores or their 70% off sale, not allowed to try it on. Many shore excursions were cut short because of people getting sick on the bus. They flew 3 extra nurses from Princess ships to help. A cleaning crew of 6 was flown to Alesund to help clean. In Harwich another 26-30 (according to the 6) were coming on board . The singers, dancers, musicians, casino staff were all helping serve. Some of the entertainers became sick and shows were moved around. When people were at dinner everyone compared notes and usually more tha 60% had had it. The CDC website says that one should not serve or prepare food for at least 3 days after your symptoms disappear. I do not know if that was followed. The restrooms only had cold water not hot as the video by Exploration Cafe said you should use. There were some passengers that did get sick a second time. The crew was wonderful, I believe what people were upset about was that HAL did not give us all the story about how long it had gone on and seemed to evade the truth a bit! It was an uncomfortable cruise in that we were paranoid about who was going to be next. I did get it and did call it in and was isolated. My brother-in-law also got sick and was told that he would be called by medical but there were many people in front of him. Kudos to the crew for keeping on smiling( with the exception of 3).

[Logistigr8r]

Allowing hand sanitizer to dry on the hands allows the proper contact time for the alcohol to neutralize bacteria and enveloped viruses. Since these sanitizers are shown to be relatively ineffective against non-enveloped viruses like noro, it is better to use the lubrication properties to loosen the virus from the skin and remove it to another surface like the paper towel. This is what soap does, it does not kill noro or any bacteria or virus, it simply breaks the surface tension between the virus and the skin and allows the water to rinse the virus away.

 

Thanks, I didn't know any of this. I have tried to wipe my hands really well with the dinner napkin after hand sanitizer. But then I noticed people use cloth napkins in lieu of tissue on my last HAL cruise - ick. This is also the last cruise I caught a bug on. Also, whenever I whip out my bottle of hand sanitizer everybody at the table wants some. Being the last recipient to receive the bottle after everyone has touched it leaves me feeling like I should start all over.:rolleyes:

 

So what to you think about using cloth napkins (presumably freshly laundered) after hand sanitizer?

[parganut]

Hi, my husband and I were on the cruise that sailed the 13th - 20th and were informed on arrival that there had been norovirus on board. We could have taken a full refund, but decided to risk it.

There was no self service in the buffet from Saturday to wednesday, with everyone working extra hours to cover the buffet during open hours.

 

Unfortunately on the weds evening my husband got ill, but did not have vomiting or a temperature so not sure if his was norovirus or an extremely bad reaction to the rich food - having had surgery to his stomach and intestines in the past, he does have to be careful. He was confined to his cabin until Friday morning which was just over 36 hours.

 

Prior to him becoming ill, he saw a passenger remove excess butter from the serving spoon using his finger!! He reported this to the staff who instantly removed the butter container.

 

On the thursday the captan announced that the ship was clean and everyone would be given a glass of champagne to celebrate. By Friday morning the ship was back on no self service and the captain was announcing that the GI had come onboard again from the last port of call!

 

In the past my hsband has been vocal to other 'gentlemen' who use the toilets then leave without washing their hands, one of these gentlemen said very shirtily 'my pen*s isn't dirty'!! With attitudes like this, the cruise lines are on a hiding to nothing and we always consider ourselves fortunate to cruise and stay healthy, this being the 1st time out of 5 cruises where one of us was ill.

 

Our cabin steward was confined to his cabin for 24hrs as his room mate was ill. He returned to work on the monday. I was healthy throughout and had a good cruise.

 

Hope the deep clean manages to get rid of the problem and people can enjoy this ship and her ports of call.

Edited July 3, 2015 by parganut

[UniPac]

Prior to him becoming ill, he saw a passenger remove excess butter from the serving spoon using his finger!!

 

one of these gentlemen said very shirtily 'my pen*s isn't dirty'!!

 

The people acting like that should become ill to learn it the hard way... sorry but we have come across such behavior, too and the cruise lines can't do much about those ppl. :mad:

[Johan Bear]

Hi we returned home yesterday from the ryndam cruise.

The outbreak affected a lot of people on board but the crew were not walking around with masks on only the ones that were doing the cleaning wore masks.

People were enjoying themselves eating & drinking!

The crew were superb with everyone helping out.

Before the end of the cruise anyone who was ill got a refund for the time they were ill plus a reasonable compensation package of free accommodation etc depending on what they were doing next.

Holland America did offer anyone who didn't want to go on at the start a full refund.

[AmazedByCruising]

Prior to him becoming ill, he saw a passenger remove excess butter from the serving spoon using his finger!!

 

In the past my hsband has been vocal to other 'gentlemen' who use the toilets then leave without washing their hands, one of these gentlemen said very shirtily 'my pen*s isn't dirty'!! With attitudes like this, the cruise lines are on a hiding to nothing and we always consider ourselves fortunate to cruise and stay healthy, this being the 1st time out of 5 cruises where one of us was ill.

 

Maybe muster call should be extended with a compulsory view of a 10-minute video to refresh knowledge about etiquette and sanitary customs passengers last learned about when they were 5.

[notjaded]

Maybe muster call should be extended with a compulsory view of a 10-minute video to refresh knowledge about etiquette and sanitary customs passengers last learned about when they were 5.

 

+1000. Great idea!

[GeneBK]

I found the following link:

 

http://www.stopthestomachflu.com/Home/which-hand-sanitizers-kill-stomach-flu-viruses

 

The paragraph at the bottom, specific to Clorox Hand Sanitizing Spray is of interest. The brand certainly seems reputable. Note the link to test data.

 

Can't hurt....I ordered the item from Amazon, where it is described as "Clorox 02174 Bleach-Free Hand Sanitizer Spray: 4-Pack of 2 oz Bottles - kills Norovirus (Feline Calicivirus)."

[Lottie Linda]

Maybe muster call should be extended with a compulsory view of a 10-minute video to refresh knowledge about etiquette and sanitary customs passengers last learned about when they were 5.

 

People will be people. There will always be those who do not wash their hands, for whatever reason.

 

Perhaps there might be something else at work.

 

"At 1187 feet long, and having capacity for nearly 9,000 passengers and crew members, the population density of the ship [Allure Of The Seas], when at capacity, can effectively exceed 1.2 million per square mile." Making it, by far, the densest population in the world.

 

Population densities, as seen on cruise ships, test the limits of sanitation and hygiene. Epidemics don't happen in rural areas, they happen in densely populated areas. The design of cruise ships need to exceed what is necessary for optimal health of passengers, and they must be immune to the penny pinching that are used to increase profit.

[chengkp75]

They won't tell us numbers. I am sure many people didn't report. However, some days we heard there were 30 or so new cases. They will have to report probably to CDC so we may find out there.

Leslie

 

Not necessarily. Our May 1-15 Maasdam cruise reportedly had 200 cases, but I never did see any report on the CDC website. Our cruise ended in Canada, so perhaps that is why no report?

 

Two things. One, cruises that do not call at US ports do not have to report anything to the USPH/CDC. Second, the only reports that are shown on the CDC website are "outbreak updates", which means that the level has reached the additional level of 3% of passengers and crew. Ships calling at US ports are required to report every cruise, whether there are any GI cases or not. When the level reaches 2%, they must make an additional report, and daily reports after that, but none of these are listed on the USPH/CDC website.

[ellenk624]

Might a key issue here may be that the passengers were informed of the Noro virus situation on the prior cruise and offered a full refund if they elected to cancel their cruise. (Or so it was reported by posters on the ship or their relatives.)

 

Regardless - so sorry for the passengers and give it a try.

 

I was on the Ms Ryndam last week when the cruise was cut short,by a day,for deep cleaning. When we checked in on 6/20, the day of departure, we were given a "Holland America Line Pre-Boarding Health Advisory" informing us that there were a higher than expected number of cases of GI illness among the guests of the prior cruise suspected to be caused by the Norovirus. The one page sheet outlined good hygiene procedures on one side and a Norovirus fact sheet on the other. We were never offered a full refund prior to boarding the ship.

[Johan Bear]

I have a letter that was given to us on arrival at Harwich offering a full refund to anyone that wanted one!!

[philsuarez]

What I want to know is what the situation is on board now? Boarding upon her return on 18/07

[caroljac]

We just returned 7/3 from the 6/20 Ryndam cruise. My husband was very sick just one evening, as were perhaps 100 guests and crew. He was quarantined for 24 hours, of course. One tour was cut short and two ports were cancelled.

 

I don't believe Holland America could have done more in the way of disinfecting, giving medical aid, and just plain being sympathetic.

 

Regarding the question of refunds, HAL went all the way without being asked. A day's cruise fare was credited, and the shortened tour received a generous discount. Hotels were arranged and paid for, with a $250 refund for meals and incidentals on July 3rd.

 

In addition, a future cruise credit of 25% of our base cruise fare was made available.

 

I only heard one disgruntled passenger, but she had previously complained about it taking a long time to arrange for specially laundered sheets.

 

HAL isn't the only company dealing with this scourge, but no one could do better. Food and entertainment were still excellent.

[DaveOKC]

Two things. One, cruises that do not call at US ports do not have to report anything to the USPH/CDC. Second, the only reports that are shown on the CDC website are "outbreak updates", which means that the level has reached the additional level of 3% of passengers and crew. Ships calling at US ports are required to report every cruise, whether there are any GI cases or not. When the level reaches 2%, they must make an additional report, and daily reports after that, but none of these are listed on the USPH/CDC website.

 

Our cruise (the one I referred to in my previous post) departed from the US and stopped at 3 US ports along the way, so that cannot be the reason. Also, we certainly were WAY over the 3% level. The previous cruise to ours had fewer ill passengers and they were on the CDC list - go figure??

Edited July 7, 2015 by DaveOKC

[choc56uk]

are there any clear updates from cruisers who are currently sailing or just come off the RYNDHAM

we are due to sail on 29th / august - fjords ????