Is 1/2 off 3rd & 4th passengers a scam?

[schildiams]

I booked a 2 bedroom suite and received as one of numerous promos, 1/2 off 3rd & 4th passengers. The price for the additional passengers was $649 pp plus taxes. (The original advertised deal online was free 3rd & 4th, but NCL claimed it was an "error" and refused to honor it. So, we were told we were getting 1/2 off instead, which was then posted online.) Nowhere does a "full" price list for 3rd & 4th passengers exist. Recently, the promo ended. I looked and was surprised to find that the 3rd & 4th passengers, even thought hey are no loner "1/2 off" are the exact same price as when the promo was active. I chatted an NCL rep from their site and confirmed that the promo had ended. When I asked why the price was then the same, she ended the chat without further explanation. Isn't this false advertising? How can it be "1/2 off" when it is never not 1/2 off, even when the promo ends? Has anyone had a similar experience with this? Thanks!

Edited October 14, 2015 by schildiams

[Theroxykitten]

I booked a suite and got 3+4 for port fees only. Back in March to sail November

 

 

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[cliffd64]

We booked a two bedroom family suite with Balcony and got passengers 3 and 4 for only $199 each, so the deal does exist if you can get it. It reduced our overall cost quite significantly. The NCL website however makes it confusing at the time of booking because when you tell it you have 4 people, it averages the total price across 4 passengers to tell you the average price per person, when what you really want to see is that you are getting passengers 3 and 4 at a reduced rate... Maybe that's what you were seeing.... You have to actually look at the confirmation receipt to see the breakdown for passengers 3 and 4.

[Theroxykitten]

We booked a two bedroom family suite with Balcony and got passengers 3 and 4 for only $199 each, so the deal does exist if you can get it. It reduced our overall cost quite significantly.

 

 

Now you say that, but I've noticed suite prices for four, next year without the promo are about the same as what I paid with the discount.

 

 

 

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[sixesandeights]

Scam I think is a bit harsh, but its a bit of a trick on NCL's part. They give you half off the list price of the cruise not the current price. It seem a bit dishonest IMHO but its not a scam because you know what you are getting before you pay. If you wait till a 3-6 sail free sale its a much better deal. No telling when there will be another one of these will be however.

 

6&8

Edited October 14, 2015 by sixesandeights

[schildiams]

I don't think "scam" is harsh since a special "promo" is being advertised, but nothing special is actually being offered. Maybe "False Advertising" is a better term? How can it be "1/2 off" when it is the same exact price at full price? Why has nobody ever challenged this?

[Freckle53]

When we booked our sailing was free 3rd & 4th. Shortly after we booked, some friends booked two in the same category and their price was only a couple hundred less than our price for 4 (probably port charge differences with less people?) , so we could def. see the 3rd and 4th being "free" for us. Like someone else said, when you put in how many, it averages the price across all 3 or 4.

[dd2355]

There's your mistake; you're thinking the later pricing was "full price". It wasn't. 1/2 off MSRP is 1/2 off MSRP whether it's a promo or a sale. As with so many other things, the regularly advertised prices are usually already substantially below MSRP (aka Brochure Price).

 

Yes, cruise pricing can be misleading, especially at this tier. You have to read the details and fine print for any promo that you're looking at. This is true for any cruise line. So is the fact that prices and promos change all the time and what you see today may be different tomorrow, or even two hours from now. If the pricing is the same they may have jinked around the structure to end with the same result but allow them to advertise it in a different way. Definitely one reason to consider using a human TA who has experience with this stuff.

 

If you still feel there's a real case of false advertising, there's a link at FTC.gov for you to file your complaint. EDIT: here you go: https://www.ftc.gov/complaint

Edited October 14, 2015 by dd2355

[S.S.Oceanlover]

There's your mistake; you're thinking the later pricing was "full price". It wasn't. 1/2 off MSRP is 1/2 off MSRP whether it's a promo or a sale. As with so many other things, the regularly advertised prices are usually already substantially below MSRP (aka Brochure Price).

Yes, cruise pricing can be misleading, especially at this tier. You have to read the details and fine print for any promo that you're looking at. This is true for any cruise line. So is the fact that prices and promos change all the time and what you see today may be different tomorrow, or even two hours from now. If the pricing is the same they may have jinked around the structure to end with the same result but allow them to advertise it in a different way. Definitely one reason to consider using a human TA who has experience with this stuff.

 

If you still feel there's a real case of false advertising, there's a link at FTC.gov for you to file your complaint. EDIT: here you go: https://www.ftc.gov/complaint

Where does one know what the (brochure) price is? Is it listed on NCL's page somewhere?

 

Bill

[dd2355]

Good question. I've always seen it listed at the ************* site so I've never explicitly looked for it at NCL.

 

Edit: whoops, though I knew the preclusion from mentioning specific TA's I thought the general site name would be allowed. I won't try to weasel around the rules here and will just leave it as the site I always check for cruise pricing. I've never seen them use TV advertising and they're specific to cruises, so they have no garden gnomes or former starship captains.

Edited October 14, 2015 by dd2355

[Theroxykitten]

I got a broacher for 16/17 for tracking

 

 

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[schildiams]

*here's your mistake; you're thinking the later pricing was "full price". It wasn't. 1/2 off MSRP is 1/2 off MSRP whether it's a promo or a sale. As with so many other things, the regularly advertised prices are usually already substantially below MSRP (aka Brochure Price).

 

Yes, cruise pricing can be misleading, especially at this tier. You have to read the details and fine print for any promo that you're looking at. This is true for any cruise line.*

 

The problem is, there is no way to know what is "full price" since it is not advertised - anywhere. If I went to Bloomingdale's for a 50% off sale, at least there would be a price tag on my sweater and I would feel good paying $50 if the tag said "100." But, if a week later, the sale was off and all the sweaters were re-tagged at $50 (NOT on clearance), I would feel scammed. It's not a promo if there is no actual promotion. It can't be legal. It seems like the definition of "FALSE advertising."

I DID read everything that I could find about the sale, including finding a pdf online with "terms and conditions" not offered anywhere on the actual NCL site. It says 50% off is off full fare - BUT the real issue is that "full fare" seems to fluctuate depending on what NCL wants it to mean. It is not an actual figure. This needs to be fixed.

PS the 1/2 price "sale" is off the full fare price of third and fourth passengers, not the brochure price of the 1st and 2nd in the cabin. So the prices you might see on a third party TA site would NOT be helpful here.

Edited October 14, 2015 by schildiams

[schildiams]

Has anyone ever found these prices printed anywhere?

I am trying to determine if a "1/2 price sale" for additional passengers is actually a sale at all, since I have discovered that the price is the same right now (without any sale on additional passengers) as I paid when there was a "1/2 off sale."

Thanks!

[Freckle53]

I just priced the Breakaway for next week which has 3/4 sail free. If you compare an identical cabin with a party of 2 vs a party of 4 you can see how 3&4 are sailing "free". Sorry the tabs aren't lined up. The family of 2 had a total due of $2034.46 and the family of 4 had $2389.64 which is just the port fees for 3&4. This is exactly the scenario I observed for our Feb. 2016 sailing because it was KSF when we booked. Our family of 4 only paid a few hundred more than our friends, just a couple sailing.

 

BX 2 people with CHOB:

Guest 1 Guest 2

Cruise Fare $749.00 $749.00

Gov't Taxes,

Fees & Port

Expenses $187.59 $187.59

Choice Promotion Service Charge: $80.64 $80.64

Total per Guest $1,017.23 $1,017.23

 

BX 4 people with CHOB:

Item Guest 1 Guest 2 Guest 3 Guest 4

Cruise Fare $749.00 $749.00 $0.00 $0.00

Gov't Taxes,

Fees & Port

Expenses $187.59 $187.59 $177.59 $177.59

Choice Promotion Service Charge: $80.64 $80.64 $0.00 $0.00

Total per Guest $1,017.23 $1,017.23 $177.59 $177.59

[schildiams]

When the 3rd and 4th are free, it is easy to see the savings. But when they are "1/2 off", it seems that there are no actual savings, since the price is the exact same as when the promo ended and the 3rd and 4th were no longer 1/2 price.

[abe3]

if you think its a scam just don't take the promo. Pay full fare.

[rvsullivan]

When the 3rd and 4th are free, it is easy to see the savings. But when they are "1/2 off", it seems that there are no actual savings, since the price is the exact same as when the promo ended and the 3rd and 4th were no longer 1/2 price.

 

First, you can't compare any one week against another. The prices for every cabin every week vary depending on demand etc. If you want to get an idea of how some of it works, look at any travel agent site that specializes in cruising, including the sponsor here. They will show something like 70% off sale, they will then show the price of list price and what their price is. Of course their price for the week is about what NCL or any other line is selling at that time. The list price is "rack" price which probably is never/rarely paid. The best advice is to book a cruise for the price you like and never look back!

My upcoming cruise sold for about $4000 for two when I bought it, before it sold out it was up to over $10K for two. How do you compare those numbers? You can be sure if it was illegal many would have already sued and things would change. The fact that it has been this exact same way for many, many years tells me there is no legal case here.

Edited October 14, 2015 by rvsullivan

[dd2355]

Has anyone ever found these prices printed anywhere?

 

As I alluded to above, look at third party agency sites for listings of the "Brochure Rate" at least for the general room categories. CC doesn't allow me to give your a specific site reference so you'll need to look around on your own.

 

I believe the non-US brochures are available for download online, just not the US ones for some reason.

 

One site I use is often for example shows the Feb 20 2016 sailing of the Spirit with OV starting at $1039 with a brochure price of $$1799. NCL shows the same price of OV starting at $1039 but nothing suggests they're already at 42% off of MSRP.

 

At the end of the day it's a whole lot of marketing bullpucky that'd it'd be nice if NCL and the others didn't do. We can wish in one hand and s--t in the other, guess which is going to fill up first. Focus on the bottom line, what you're paying, and figure any of the "you saved xyz!" is mostly smoke and mirrors anyway.

 

FWIW I'm not trying to defend NCL here, I'm just pragmatic at what I have any realistic chance of affecting and focus instead on how to sort through the marketing B.S. we find nearly everywhere these days. The flashy signs and bright colors don't affect the cold hard numbers at the bottom line, so that's what I'm paying attention to.

[rvsullivan]

As I alluded to above, look at third party agency sites for listings of the "Brochure Rate" at least for the general room categories. CC doesn't allow me to give your a specific site reference so you'll need to look around on your own.

 

I believe the non-US brochures are available for download online, just not the US ones for some reason.

 

One site I use is often for example shows the Feb 20 2016 sailing of the Spirit with OV starting at $1039 with a brochure price of $$1799. NCL shows the same price of OV starting at $1039 but nothing suggests they're already at 42% off of MSRP.

 

At the end of the day it's a whole lot of marketing bullpucky that'd it'd be nice if NCL and the others didn't do. We can wish in one hand and s--t in the other, guess which is going to fill up first. Focus on the bottom line, what you're paying, and figure any of the "you saved xyz!" is mostly smoke and mirrors anyway.

 

FWIW I'm not trying to defend NCL here, I'm just pragmatic at what I have any realistic chance of affecting and focus instead on how to sort through the marketing B.S. we find nearly everywhere these days. The flashy signs and bright colors don't affect the cold hard numbers at the bottom line, so that's what I'm paying attention to.

 

Well said!

[missintuitive]

if you think its a scam just don't take the promo. Pay full fare.

 

Huh? She's making the point that the promo IS the full fare and not 1/2 off as advertised.

 

 

 

 

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[DevCruise]

Cruise prices (not just NCL's) are like airline pricing. They change day by day. Sometimes by the hour depending on how well things are selling and what inventory they want to get rid of.

 

US brochures are here: https://www.ncl.com/order-a-brochure

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Cruise prices (not just NCL's) are like airline pricing. They change day by day. Sometimes by the hour depending on how well things are selling and what inventory they want to get rid of.

 

US brochures are here: https://www.ncl.com/order-a-brochure

 

I downloaded the Caribbean brochure but couldn't find the prices.:confused:

 

Bill

[Snowrose]

Are we talking about the prices that appear on the NCL site?

 

DH and I were testing some scenarios for cruising with family the last time they had 3rd and 4th passengers half off. I was trying to figure out why the site wasn't showing the discount. I went back and put in just DH and I as passengers. That's when I realized that the site lists such a discount by taking the price off of all the passengers, giving average pricing for all 4 instead of showing the discount on just passengers 3 and 4.

 

Not sure if that's what you're seeing or not.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Snowrose

[NJ7]

I worked in the travel business years ago and while I have seen some "creative" promotions - I too thought something was a little fishy with the 1/2 off promo for 3rd/4th passengers - I took a number of screen shots when I was planning my cruise in case I needed to refer back -

Example: from website 2/10/2015 mock booking balcony

Freestyle Choice Plus– Automatically get free or half price 3rd & 4th stateroom guests plus apply any promo code below for a bonus offer!

 

Pricing Details

Item Guest 1 Guest 2 Guest 3

Cruise Fare $1,619.00 $1,619.00 $1,099.50

Gov't Taxes,

Fees & Port

Expenses $138.49. $138.49 $138.49

Total per Guest $1,757.49 $1,757.49 $1,237.99

 

In this example the 1/2 price amount for the 3rd guest would mean that the non promo rate would have the 3rd passenger over $600 more then the 1st/2nd passenger rates.

 

I didn't really see any value in the 1/2 price promo (since it was either not calculating as 1/2off or it was 1/2off of some crazy inflated rate) - so this promo wasn't for me and I looked for cruises that had the 3rd/4th free where possible.

[pokerpro5]

I wouldn't say it's a scam, but it's definitely false advertising.

 

A half-off promotion should mean you are getting 50% off the existing non-promotion price.

 

If the existing non-promotion price is the same as your "50% off", then the promotion is worthless, and that needs to be made clear to the customer.

 

This would be equivalent to running a burger place, and advertising, "Free bun for hamburger with every burger, fries, and drink purchase!", when in reality the bun comes with the hamburger for free no matter what.

 

Anyway, have you looked into buying a cheap inside cabin for the 3rd and 4th person? Sometimes that comes out to less than paying the additional fare for both people in your first room.

 

There is also a trick you can utilize regarding this. You can cancel the 3rd and 4th person out of your room FOR A FULL REFUND up until 14 days before the cruise! So after you book the 3rd and 4th person in your room, just keep looking for them to "dump" inside cabins cheaply, and when you see it, cancel those additional people out of your room and buy them their own cabin.