Bait and switch

[Golfin55]

You were baited by a cabin price that included a branded burger experience and then switched by having to pay a higher price to enjoy the branded burger. I don't care about the burger but do care to have a company honor its advertising to entice bookings.

 

 

Still incorrect, try again....

[Golfin55]

Fair enough, but no need to go from zero to $120 for a family. They'd have had a much better result at $5 a head or starting a reservation system. Now it's just a big waste of space since most people don't agree with you.

 

 

Yes, a small cover would have been a more effective and accepted remediation for MV.

[sparks1093]

Not sure I fully understand your post. If you have a moment, please elaborate.

 

Another way to put it is one way or another you pay for everything onboard. (And FWIW bait and switch does have a specific legal meaning and I haven't seen any cruise line use the practice, which of course isn't the same as saying none of them do.)

[Golfin55]

Thanks for the link. According to your link, the full bait and switch definition includes: " the ploy of offering a person something desirable to gain favor (as political support) then thwarting expectations with something less desirable."

 

 

 

One could argue the often publicized free Margaritaville would be the: "ploy of offering a person something desirable to gain favor" and upon boarding the ship the pax finding Margaritaville is not free but a la carte is the: "then thwarting expectations with something less desirable."

 

 

 

But to me the notable aspect of FDR's decision to charge for Margaritaville is his decision to go a la carte rather than a simple fixed nominal fee. For customer convenience and accounting simplicity a fixed fee would have effectively served to reduce demand. Instead he chose to implement psychological pricing model whereby individual prices ended in .99 which gives the illusion of a lower prices. For example, prices such as $5.99 are psychologically associated with spending $5 rather than $6. If his sole motive was to reduce demand, why implement a compound psychological pricing model which is less consumer friendly and more trouble for the servers and accountants to track? Me thinks he saw an opportunity in the huge Margaritaville demand and put profit ahead of customer service.

 

 

How do you, or anyone here including me know it was FDR sole decision to charge for the venue. More likely it was the CFO or AS

[sparks1093]

How do you, or anyone here including me know it was FDR sole decision to charge for the venue. More likely it was the CFO or AS

 

Doesn't matter whose decision it was, Del Rio is the one calling the shots.

[janpo]

So what would you call selling one thing and delivering something else? Fraud?

 

Maybe the NCL way?

 

Whatever you call it, it's defended by the same people.

[LMaxwell]

If I bought a package that included A, B, C and now when the company fulfills the package it is only going to provide A and B, and has told me it can't provide C without charging me additional money (But C is now optional for me, not compulsory), what would it be called if not bait and switch? Surely OP there's some other term to accurately describe this behavior if bait and switch does not seem appropriate to you.

[Shawnino]

Speaking of bait, how many fish you plan on catching with this hook? ;)

 

It's definitely master.

[SaveFarris]

If I bought a package that included A, B, C and now when the company fulfills the package it is only going to provide A and B, and has told me it can't provide C without charging me additional money (But C is now optional for me, not compulsory), what would it be called if not bait and switch? Surely OP there's some other term to accurately describe this behavior if bait and switch does not seem appropriate to you.

 

Re-read the fine print, the package actually contains "A, B, and a letter of our choosing".

 

It would be more accurately called "not doing your due diligence."

[Golfin55]

Doesn't matter whose decision it was, Del Rio is the one calling the shots.

 

 

Del rio overseas D2D, he like any other NON owner CEO relies on his management team to handle smaller logistics. FDR is not as hands on as KS was. For example, FDR sent AS o the steel cutting ceremony for "the ship formally known as Bliss" most every CEO from other lines is usually present during that ceremony.

 

So I can't agree with your statement.

[SuiteCruiser]

Del rio overseas D2D, he like any other NON owner CEO relies on his management team to handle smaller logistics. FDR is not as hands on as KS was. For example, FDR sent AS o the steel cutting ceremony for "the ship formally known as Bliss" most every CEO from other lines is usually present during that ceremony.

 

So I can't agree with your statement.

 

What about all of the reports from those "in the know" who say he picks out the artwork, cutlery, etc. He's known as the guy with his hands on everything by the people that call him their friend. He's the guy calling the shots, to me it's obvious because all of the changes have been handled exactly the same way since he started. There doesn't appear to be any planning, it's thrown out there and not communicated.

 

A well planned out raise to DSC does not bring about 2 increases within months of each other.

 

A well planned out Feature Restaurant that's complimentary does not go a la carte a month later

 

Dishes in the hallways should not mean an immediate ban on people bringing back food, if properly planned out, that mess wouldn't have happened.

 

I won't keep going on, but the changes all were handled poorly and the same way, and we know FDR made the call on the dishes in the hall, and we know he has his hands in everything, so I think it's a reasonable assumption.

[sparks1093]

Del rio overseas D2D, he like any other NON owner CEO relies on his management team to handle smaller logistics. FDR is not as hands on as KS was. For example, FDR sent AS o the steel cutting ceremony for "the ship formally known as Bliss" most every CEO from other lines is usually present during that ceremony.

 

So I can't agree with your statement.

 

Doesn't matter to me whether you agree or not, I know what I've read and that says that Del Rio is a micromanager and he has handpicked his team and given them clear directions regarding what he wants done. His way or the highway. So to him goes the glory and the blame.

[abe3]

Doesn't matter to me whether you agree or not, I know what I've read and that says that Del Rio is a micromanager and he has handpicked his team and given them clear directions regarding what he wants done. His way or the highway. So to him goes the glory and the blame.

 

 

That's what you want a CEO to do. Make his/her own team and to oversee the direction he or she sees fit for their company. If it doesn't work out then the investors will kick him or her out.

 

Too early to tell how FDR is doing but I think he is moving in the right direction IMO.

[sparks1093]

That's what you want a CEO to do. Make his/her own team and to oversee the direction he or she sees fit for their company. If it doesn't work out then the investors will kick him or her out.

 

Too early to tell how FDR is doing but I think he is moving in the right direction IMO.

 

Yes, it is what you want a CEO to do (well, except for the micromanaging part) but some don't want the CEO to take the blame if things go south. As far as your last statement we don't agree, but that's okay. I'm sure NCL will continue to provide a good product to its passengers.

Edited December 22, 2015 by sparks1093

[fshagan]

Another way to put it is one way or another you pay for everything onboard. (And FWIW bait and switch does have a specific legal meaning and I haven't seen any cruise line use the practice, which of course isn't the same as saying none of them do.)

 

That's an important point. Both "bait and switch" and "false advertising" have legal definitions as either crimes or torts (not sure how Florida handles them). I think the case of MV might possibly be a case of "false advertising" but certainly not "bait and switch". But even then it's a stretch to make it fit the definition. I doubt an AG or jury would consider a burger joint's cover charge as a significant enough change to be worth their time.

[abe3]

Yes, it is what you want a CEO to do (well, except for the micromanaging part) but some don't want the CEO to take the blame if things go south. As far as your last statement we don't agree, but that's okay. I'm sure NCL will continue to provide a good product to its passengers.

 

 

I Respect your opinion and it's OK to disagree. Everyone has different tastes or feelings some are more important to others and others might think it is not that important.

 

To me as long as I am on vacation it's all good. I don't worry about the little things and all the little details.

[sparks1093]

I Respect your opinion and it's OK to disagree. Everyone has different tastes or feelings some are more important to others and others might think it is not that important.

 

To me as long as I am on vacation it's all good. I don't worry about the little things and all the little details.

 

I agree 100%, when I am on vacation I don't worry about the little things either (especially now that they are over 18 and have to pay for their own cruises;)).

[LMaxwell]

Re-read the fine print, the package actually contains "A, B, and a letter of our choosing".

 

It would be more accurately called "not doing your due diligence."

 

They spent a year advertising free Margaritaville © and then changed it. I did my due diligence and read all of their advertising of what was to be included.

 

If someone has to point deep within the fine print that they aren't actually being scummy, chances are they are pretty scummy.

 

What next? the UBP promo in my booking will vanish? DSC will jump to $20 per day? they will charge me to use the pool?

 

and none of that would be considered bait and switch? Riiiiiiiiiiight.

[LMaxwell]

I Respect your opinion and it's OK to disagree. Everyone has different tastes or feelings some are more important to others and others might think it is not that important.

 

To me as long as I am on vacation it's all good. I don't worry about the little things and all the little details.

 

Personally, I feel it is bad as a consumer to always accept less and less and smile through it. I totally understand not wanting to sour your limited vacation time, but it's just bad to set a precedent of being a door mat. Just my opinion. Consider that what you feel is minor, others do not. I don't understand the rabid white knighting; if you are happy you are happy.

[abe3]

Personally, I feel it is bad as a consumer to always accept less and less and smile through it. I totally understand not wanting to sour your limited vacation time, but it's just bad to set a precedent of being a door mat. Just my opinion. Consider that what you feel is minor, others do not. I don't understand the rabid white knighting; if you are happy you are happy.

 

 

I agree with you. If I have a problem I will address it with whomever I need to address it to only if I feel it needs to be addressed.

 

We all have a preference on how something is. If you feel something needs to be addressed and I feel that the same situation is nothing to worry about then that's your own decision how to handle it. We all spend good money on a vacation. Some spend more some spend less, but yes you are right if something really bothers you while you are in the boat all you need to do is talk to the staff and hopefully they can resolve it to your liking. I don't want my money wasted on poor service or not meeting my expectations and that doesn't mean I am going to smile through it.

 

I have never had a major issue with my NCL cruises except for a few minor charges that were worked out on board. Other than that I have had outstanding service.

Edited December 22, 2015 by abe3

[fshagan]

Personally, I feel it is bad as a consumer to always accept less and less and smile through it. I totally understand not wanting to sour your limited vacation time, but it's just bad to set a precedent of being a door mat. Just my opinion. Consider that what you feel is minor, others do not. I don't understand the rabid white knighting; if you are happy you are happy.

 

If more people would vote with their feet and cancel their cruises, perhaps the message would get through. There's no indication that is happening in large enough numbers to get NCL's attention.

 

I strongly encourage people who disagree with the company to do what many others have done, and start looking at other lines. What is beyond me is the few people here (not you, I don't think) who endlessly complain about "principle" but still have that "great deal in late 2016" they are still going to take. Principles usually don't have a price that small. Cancel that cruise, tell NCL why, and vote with your feet. That's the only vote that counts.

 

Nothing NCL has done rises to the level of a real ethical dilemma for people, as I don't think anyone has cancelled after final payment in protest, forfeiting their fare. For real ethical issues, i.e., "matters of principle", that is exactly what people do. They go to jail to sit in the front of the bus. They destroy their Beatles albums in a bonfire.

 

To do that really sends a statement if suitably advertised.

[Moby0215]

If I bought a package that included A, B, C and now when the company fulfills the package it is only going to provide A and B, and has told me it can't provide C without charging me additional money (But C is now optional for me, not compulsory), what would it be called if not bait and switch? Surely OP there's some other term to accurately describe this behavior if bait and switch does not seem appropriate to you.

 

 

The package that you bought includes food. It does not specify that it includes food from MV. This is the false assumption people are making.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SuiteCruiser]

The package that you bought includes food. It does not specify that it includes food from MV. This is the false assumption people are making.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Why is that okay? They can feed you hot dogs 3 meals a day and 7 days a week, and their contract is fulfilled. That doesn't make it right.

[DMH15]

If more people would vote with their feet and cancel their cruises, perhaps the message would get through. There's no indication that is happening in large enough numbers to get NCL's attention.

 

I strongly encourage people who disagree with the company to do what many others have done, and start looking at other lines. What is beyond me is the few people here (not you, I don't think) who endlessly complain about "principle" but still have that "great deal in late 2016" they are still going to take. Principles usually don't have a price that small. Cancel that cruise, tell NCL why, and vote with your feet. That's the only vote that counts.

 

Nothing NCL has done rises to the level of a real ethical dilemma for people, as I don't think anyone has cancelled after final payment in protest, forfeiting their fare. For real ethical issues, i.e., "matters of principle", that is exactly what people do. They go to jail to sit in the front of the bus. They destroy their Beatles albums in a bonfire.

 

To do that really sends a statement if suitably advertised.

I agree with you 100%! I think those who disagree so strongly as to complain on and on here on cruise critic should either cancel their cruises and book new ones with another line. And move on.

 

That would leave the rest of us who are okay with NCL. On NCL ships and maybe even on Cruise Critic's NCL forums too.

 

I know if I was so vehemently opposed to a business I would no longer patronize them or even think about them.

 

Pretty soon the scenario of "I am in final payment" or "I have already purchased airfare and can't switch" will be moot points.

 

We heard all the grumbling after the smoking bans... that has died down.

 

And since the UBP there is hardly ever a thread on booze smuggling.

 

This too shall pass.

[valleyvillage]

I agree with you 100%! I think those who disagree so strongly as to complain on and on here on cruise critic should either cancel their cruises and book new ones with another line. And move on.

 

That would leave the rest of us who are okay with NCL. On NCL ships and maybe even on Cruise Critic's NCL forums too.

 

I know if I was so vehemently opposed to a business I would no longer patronize them or even think about them.

 

Pretty soon the scenario of "I am in final payment" or "I have already purchased airfare and can't switch" will be moot points.

 

We heard all the grumbling after the smoking bans... that has died down.

 

And since the UBP there is hardly ever a thread on booze smuggling.

 

This too shall pass.

Amen, dear Donna!