Bait and switch

[Moby0215]

Why is that okay? They can feed you hot dogs 3 meals a day and 7 days a week, and their contract is fulfilled. That doesn't make it right.

 

 

There are the MDRs and the buffet that serve plenty more than just hot dogs. And depending on the ship the Asian place (which used to be a paid specialty). I'm not saying that it is right or wrong. But it is far from a bait and switch.

 

 

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[SteveH2508]

The package that you bought includes food. It does not specify that it includes food from MV. This is the false assumption people are making.

 

 

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Under UK law, the advertising associated with the cruise is an inducement to book and constitutes representations made. These representations (if false) can constitute a cause of action for damages or, if material to the fundamental nature of the contract, can be grounds for recission of the contract.

 

Just having regard to the contract T&Cs maybe a valid argument in US - it certainly is not in Europe and most other countries of the world.

 

BTW - I have no dog in this fight - i have moved on (as you can see from my sig. block).

[SuiteCruiser]

There are the MDRs and the buffet that serve plenty more than just hot dogs. And depending on the ship the Asian place (which used to be a paid specialty). I'm not saying that it is right or wrong. But it is far from a bait and switch.

 

 

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What I'm saying is under the contract they only have to feed you ordinary food. They could switch to only free hot dogs and the rest you pay for. That isn't okay.

 

Just because the contract is lean in its promises doesn't mean that it's ethically okay. At what point is it not okay? There was word of MDR meal plans, does that mean only buffet is free if/when that happens? Is it okay?

Edited December 22, 2015 by SuiteCruiser

[SaveFarris]

They can feed you hot dogs 3 meals a day and 7 days a week, and their contract is fulfilled.

 

Correct. Thread over.

 

However, they choose not to because they figure (correctly) that the backlash to such a move would be detrimental to the company's solvency.

 

The powers-that-be feel that in this case, the backlash over converting MV to pay dining (and the resulting revenue) is worth whatever revenue they may lose over customer dissatisfaction. Time will tell whether that was the correct assumption.

 

But either way, there's nothing "illegal" or "bait & switch" about it.

[Moby0215]

What I'm saying is under the contract they only have to feed you ordinary food. They could switch to only free hot dogs and the rest you pay for. That isn't okay.

 

Just because the contract is lean in its promises doesn't mean that it's ethically okay. At what point is it not okay? There was word of MDR meal plans, does that mean only buffet is free if/when that happens? Is it okay?

 

 

Again, I wasn't saying what is ok or not ok. That is certainly an individual's opinion. I was just pointing out it is far from a bait and switch.

 

 

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[SuiteCruiser]

Again, I wasn't saying what is ok or not ok. That is certainly an individual's opinion. I was just pointing out it is far from a bait and switch.

 

 

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We agree, I never said it was a bait and switch.

[mugtech]

Bait and switch. I am told to come on CC to learn about cruising and I read threads like this one.

[2ManyCruises]

Bait and switch. I am told to come on CC to learn about cruising and I read threads like this one.

 

Too funny.

[NLH Arizona]

If more people would vote with their feet and cancel their cruises, perhaps the message would get through. There's no indication that is happening in large enough numbers to get NCL's attention.

 

I strongly encourage people who disagree with the company to do what many others have done, and start looking at other lines. What is beyond me is the few people here (not you, I don't think) who endlessly complain about "principle" but still have that "great deal in late 2016" they are still going to take. Principles usually don't have a price that small. Cancel that cruise, tell NCL why, and vote with your feet. That's the only vote that counts.

 

Nothing NCL has done rises to the level of a real ethical dilemma for people, as I don't think anyone has cancelled after final payment in protest, forfeiting their fare. For real ethical issues, i.e., "matters of principle", that is exactly what people do. They go to jail to sit in the front of the bus. They destroy their Beatles albums in a bonfire.

 

To do that really sends a statement if suitably advertised.

I agree, if more people either stopped cruising with NCL or stop spending money on board where they have an issue, like Margaritaville or specialty restaurants for a la carte pricing or auto gratuity, then if enough stop, NCL might rethink their changes...but that isn't happening; folks on here are still cruising and spending their money on things they have an issue with.

 

Also, if someone really feels that NCL is doing something illegal like bait and switch, they can easily file a claim in small claims court, which wouldn't cost that much. But, they should read their passenger contract with NCL before they say that NCL is doing anything illegal.

[SuiteCruiser]

I agree, if more people either stopped cruising with NCL or stop spending money on board where they have an issue, like Margaritaville or specialty restaurants for a la carte pricing or auto gratuity, then if enough stop, NCL might rethink their changes...but that isn't happening; folks on here are still cruising and spending their money on things they have an issue with.

 

Also, if someone really feels that NCL is doing something illegal like bait and switch, they can easily file a claim in small claims court, which wouldn't cost that much. But, they should read their passenger contract with NCL before they say that NCL is doing anything illegal.

 

It IS happening with Margaritaville, but haven't seen any changes yet. They were quick to add the charge a month in, but not so quick to do something about it another month later. They'd rather annoy their customers than make some money, which is rather odd, at least to me.

[sparks1093]

I agree, if more people either stopped cruising with NCL or stop spending money on board where they have an issue, like Margaritaville or specialty restaurants for a la carte pricing or auto gratuity, then if enough stop, NCL might rethink their changes...but that isn't happening; folks on here are still cruising and spending their money on things they have an issue with.

 

Also, if someone really feels that NCL is doing something illegal like bait and switch, they can easily file a claim in small claims court, which wouldn't cost that much. But, they should read their passenger contract with NCL before they say that NCL is doing anything illegal.

 

Since NCL likely expects to lose a certain percentage of passengers during the transition (and some have suggested that NCL does want to chase away the savvy/experienced cruiser) cancelling a booking would likely have no impact at all (unless of course the number significantly exceeded the projections). As you and others have reported the onboard experience has not changed significantly so why would anyone want to cancel their booking? And this doesn't mean that they have to be happy about any of the changes, either. One can be unhappy about the changes and still have a good cruise (I know that I would). I think that court action would be more attention getting, if of course the passenger has a case (which is not a slam dunk question by any means).

Edited December 23, 2015 by sparks1093

[NLH Arizona]

It IS happening with Margaritaville, but haven't seen any changes yet. They were quick to add the charge a month in, but not so quick to do something about it another month later. They'd rather annoy their customers than make some money, which is rather odd, at least to me.

some reports say Margaritaville is empty, while others have said folks are going there, so we will have to wait and see, nothing happens overnight. For all we know, they are making the revenue they expected for the first month. Yes, they are annoying some customers, but apparently not all.

[SuiteCruiser]

some reports say Margaritaville is empty, while others have said folks are going there, so we will have to wait and see, nothing happens overnight. For all we know, they are making the revenue they expected for the first month. Yes, they are annoying some customers, but apparently not all.

 

I don't think anyone expects it to be totally empty, especially since those with the UDP still get it for free. There are a LOT of annoyed people, especially those that don't know of the change going up to the desk and being told then. I feel for the staff. People were reporting on that in the Margaritaville thread.

 

The change to making it a la carte happened overnight, so we know they're capable of it.

[hpecorari]

some reports say Margaritaville is empty, while others have said folks are going there, so we will have to wait and see, nothing happens overnight. For all we know, they are making the revenue they expected for the first month. Yes, they are annoying some customers, but apparently not all.

 

Don't forget you have all those who booked long ago who have the UDP, me included, that will go there as it's included for us/them.

 

I think the test will be when all/most of the UDP deals are gone. I can't see someone using one of their SDP to eat there.

 

Then I believe we'll see what's what.

 

In addition if one is a CAS player CAS is giving out a specific amount of money a CAS player can spend in restaurants and CAS is picking up the tab.

 

It would be nice to know if those that are eating there are actually paying for it themselves or if CAS is paying for it or their UDP is paying for it.

 

Harriet

[NLH Arizona]

Since NCL likely expects to lose a certain percentage of passengers during the transition (and some have suggested that NCL does want to chase away the savvy/experienced cruiser) cancelling a booking would likely have no impact at all (unless of course the number significantly exceeded the projections). As you and others have reported the onboard experience has not changed significantly so why would anyone want to cancel their booking? And this doesn't mean that they have to be happy about any of the changes, either. One can be unhappy about the changes and still have a good cruise (I know that I would). I think that court action would be more attention getting, if of course the passenger has a case (which is not a slam dunk question by any means).

I can only speak for myself, but if I was angry enough with a company to say that a company is doing something illegally like bait and switch or fraud, I surely wouldn't want to continue to give them my money, which in my estimation is basically saying to them that what they are doing is a-ok.

 

Also, I don't think NCL is trying to run off savvy or up savvy customers, they are just making changes that they feel will improve their bottom line, something every company does.

[NLH Arizona]

Don't forget you have all those who booked long ago who have the UDP, me included, that will go there as it's included for us/them.

 

I think the test will be when all/most of the UDP deals are gone. I can't see someone using one of their SDP to eat there.

 

Then I believe we'll see what's what.

 

In addition if one is a CAS player CAS is giving out a specific amount of money a CAS player can spend in restaurants and CAS is picking up the tab.

 

It would be nice to know if those that are eating there are actually paying for it themselves or if CAS is paying for it or their UDP is paying for it.

 

Harriet

it doesn't matter who is paying for it, as the only thing that is going to matter to NCL is if Margaritaville is making their budget revenue. If one has the UDP, the SDP or is givien dollars from CAS and are eating at Margaritaville, they are contributing to the expected revenue, doesn't matter who is paying for it.

[NLH Arizona]

I don't think anyone expects it to be totally empty, especially since those with the UDP still get it for free. There are a LOT of annoyed people, especially those that don't know of the change going up to the desk and being told then. I feel for the staff. People were reporting on that in the Margaritaville thread.

 

The change to making it a la carte happened overnight, so we know they're capable of it.

 

One thing we agree upon, I also feel for the staff, as it was not their decision and folks shouldn't take it out on them, but some will.

[hpecorari]

it doesn't matter who is paying for it, as the only thing that is going to matter to NCL is if Margaritaville is making their budget revenue. If one has the UDP, the SDP or is givien dollars from CAS and are eating at Margaritaville, they are contributing to the expected revenue, doesn't matter who is paying for it.

 

I'll agree with you that it actually doesn't matter who's paying for it. Yet, it could show if those that are eating there are eating there because it's being comped or paid for by another.......or are putting their hands in their own pockets to pay for it.

 

Harriet

[Sizzlechest]

I can only speak for myself, but if I was angry enough with a company to say that a company is doing something illegally like bait and switch or fraud, I surely wouldn't want to continue to give them my money, which in my estimation is basically saying to them that what they are doing is a-ok.

 

Also, I don't think NCL is trying to run off savvy or up savvy customers, they are just making changes that they feel will improve their bottom line, something every company does.

 

Part of the problem with NCL's overall strategy is that it's a "death by a thousand cuts" rather than a couple major changes. There have been lots of changes over the last year, so adding them all up means that people who booked very far in advance are getting a significantly different experience than what they thought they were getting.

 

• Nickelodeon gone
  
• Geoffrey Zakarian gone
  
• 18% gratuity on specialty dining
  
• DSC raised twice
  
• drink prices raised
  
• 18% gratuity on drinks
  
• 18% gratuity on food/coffee purchases ( Java Cafe/Carlo's/gelato etc)
  
• Asian Noodle restaurant complimentary but reduced menu
  
• Hippo Slide on GSC gone
  
• Fireworks gone
  
• UDP is now SDP
  
• UBP used to be for everyone in room, but now it's just first two passengers
  
• Room service $7.95 except for a much smaller limited "continental breakfast"
  
• Blue Man Group gone
  
• Now pay taxes on "free" UBP/SDP
  
• No more kids pricing in specialty restaurants
  
• Port times shortened on a number of itineraries "for your convenience"
  
• No more free Cirque or Illusionarium on first night with dining package
  
• Margaritaville on Escape is now a la carte. Used to be included.
  
• Cancellation policy got much worse.
  

Edited December 23, 2015 by Sizzlechest

[abe3]

Part of the problem with NCL's overall strategy is that it's a "death by a thousand cuts" rather than a couple major changes. There have been lots of changes over the last year, so adding them all up means that people who booked very far in advance are getting a significantly different experience than what they thought they were getting.

 

• Nickelodeon gone
  
• Geoffrey Zakarian gone
  
• 18% gratuity on specialty dining
  
• DSC raised twice
  
• drink prices raised
  
• 18% gratuity on drinks
  
• 18% gratuity on food/coffee purchases ( Java Cafe/Carlo's/gelato etc)
  
• Asian Noodle restaurant complimentary but reduced menu
  
• Hippo Slide on GSC gone
  
• Fireworks gone
  
• UDP is now SDP
  
• UBP used to be for everyone in room, but now it's just first two passengers
  
• Room service $7.95 except for a much smaller limited "continental breakfast"
  
• Blue Man Group gone
  
• Now pay taxes on "free" UBP/SDP
  
• No more kids pricing in specialty restaurants
  
• Port times shortened on a number of itineraries "for your convenience"
  
• No more free Cirque or Illusionarium on first night with dining package
  
• Margaritaville on Escape is now a la carte. Used to be included.
  
• Cancellation policy got much worse.
  

 

 

You thinking too much. Must not have anything better to do.

[DMH15]

Part of the problem with NCL's overall strategy is that it's a "death by a thousand cuts" rather than a couple major changes. There have been lots of changes over the last year, so adding them all up means that people who booked very far in advance are getting a significantly different experience than what they thought they were getting.

 

• Nickelodeon gone
  
• Geoffrey Zakarian gone
  
• 18% gratuity on specialty dining
  
• DSC raised twice
  
• drink prices raised
  
• 18% gratuity on drinks
  
• 18% gratuity on food/coffee purchases ( Java Cafe/Carlo's/gelato etc)
  
• Asian Noodle restaurant complimentary but reduced menu
  
• Hippo Slide on GSC gone
  
• Fireworks gone
  
• UDP is now SDP
  
• UBP used to be for everyone in room, but now it's just first two passengers
  
• Room service $7.95 except for a much smaller limited "continental breakfast"
  
• Blue Man Group gone
  
• Now pay taxes on "free" UBP/SDP
  
• No more kids pricing in specialty restaurants
  
• Port times shortened on a number of itineraries "for your convenience"
  
• No more free Cirque or Illusionarium on first night with dining package
  
• Margaritaville on Escape is now a la carte. Used to be included.
  
• Cancellation policy got much worse.
  

 

Most of these don't matter to me. The few that apply to me are not an issue at all. Nothing is a deal-breaker for me on this list.

 

If I want something I determine if the price is a good value to me. If yes, I buy it... if no, I don't.

[luvtheships]

I agree, if more people either stopped cruising with NCL or stop spending money on board where they have an issue, like Margaritaville or specialty restaurants for a la carte pricing or auto gratuity, then if enough stop, NCL might rethink their changes...but that isn't happening; folks on here are still cruising and spending their money on things they have an issue with.

 

 

 

Also, if someone really feels that NCL is doing something illegal like bait and switch, they can easily file a claim in small claims court, which wouldn't cost that much. But, they should read their passenger contract with NCL before they say that NCL is doing anything illegal.

 

 

Ncl is not exactly doing anything illegal with M ville but it reflects poorly on their business and marketing and customer service

 

I'm starting to think of Ncl in terms of snake oil salesmen.

 

Also since I know Ncl pays the crew a salary I might reduce my dsc because now I can do it in the privacy of my own home and not defend my actions to guest services

 

My reducing dsc will not hurt the crew at all

 

If I didn't give my steward a cash tip that will hurt them but I'm not talking about reducing that am I

[luvtheships]

Part of the problem with NCL's overall strategy is that it's a "death by a thousand cuts" rather than a couple major changes. There have been lots of changes over the last year, so adding them all up means that people who booked very far in advance are getting a significantly different experience than what they thought they were getting.

 

• Nickelodeon gone
  
• Geoffrey Zakarian gone
  
• 18% gratuity on specialty dining
  
• DSC raised twice
  
• drink prices raised
  
• 18% gratuity on drinks
  
• 18% gratuity on food/coffee purchases ( Java Cafe/Carlo's/gelato etc)
  
• Asian Noodle restaurant complimentary but reduced menu
  
• Hippo Slide on GSC gone
  
• Fireworks gone
  
• UDP is now SDP
  
• UBP used to be for everyone in room, but now it's just first two passengers
  
• Room service $7.95 except for a much smaller limited "continental breakfast"
  
• Blue Man Group gone
  
• Now pay taxes on "free" UBP/SDP
  
• No more kids pricing in specialty restaurants
  
• Port times shortened on a number of itineraries "for your convenience"
  
• No more free Cirque or Illusionarium on first night with dining package
  
• Margaritaville on Escape is now a la carte. Used to be included.
  
• Cancellation policy got much worse.
  

 

 

Thank you for posting this list

 

I didn't realize the true extent of the changes and yes I booked 9 months out before fdr started to ruin Ncl so I got a great deal and its true that most of the list doesn't concern me because of my good deal

 

But it will concern me for my next cruise so Ncl will be losing out on my buying 2 cruise next certs

 

Oh well cash stays in my pocket

[luvtheships]

Bait and switch. I am told to come on CC to learn about cruising and I read threads like this one.

 

 

When you come to cc you will see responses from savvy long time cruisers that hopefully will open the eyes of the newbies who are still starry eyed with Ncl

 

Just because we see things clearly and recognize when changes go against the pax does not mean we won't continue to cruise

 

It means we know exactly what is going on and why

[abe3]

Most of these don't matter to me. The few that apply to me are not an issue at all. Nothing is a deal-breaker for me on this list.

 

 

 

If I want something I determine if the price is a good value to me. If yes, I buy it... if no, I don't.

 

 

Same with me. No deal breaker at all.

 

And the Pearson who made this list probably shouldn't buy.