Diving age discrimination

[Culbles]

I have been on commercial flights on smaller planes where weight distribution was also considered.

Weight distribution is considered on all flights. They will even adjust seating to adjust for weight distribution. That in itself is safety and safety is not by itself discriminatory.

[TTFromSommersTown]

You are right and wrong. The ship upholds the USA drinking law (21) even in foreign ports and international waters.

 

I am not sure why you said this as I did not say anything about drinking age on the ship. I was making a point about US law and said that the age was 21 but that almost everywhere else in the world was less than that. In fact Cunard has a drinking age of 18 except when in US territorial waters.

 

The point that I was trying to make was that you should abide by the rules of the various tour operators/cruse lines or not go with them.

[Culbles]

I thought weight limitations in Alaska have to do with safety?, ie, not overloading those small planes & helicopters. When we had our glacier flight (plane) we were all seated according to weight, so the plane would be balanced. Friends of ours who have taken several flights on copters & planes report the same thing.

 

And we did overhear a conversation about someone being denied the plane ride due to his weight.

Yes that is correct. Weight has a lot to do with airplanes and ships (even large ships). But that has nothing to do with age. If all other things are okay then age by itself should not be a limiting factor.

[Culbles]

Being a certified diver who will be over 65 for our Southern Caribbean cruise in 2017 I do empathize. I am intending to dive the A,B,C's. It will be my first dive there. I will need to arrange in advance with an alternate dive operator. I do prefer to book excursions through HAL, but I guess this one will be on my own. I will definitely check with my local dive shop to get things arranged in advance.

 

Thanks OP for highlighting this issue. I have always noted things like weight limits. I will now look carefully for things like age as well.

 

Just an aside, can't a poster type a post with frustration without being castigated. Yes, further research would have identified the limitations for that particular excursion and OP would have been saved the significant disappointment. I agree the level of upset was a bit extreme and was misplaced toward HAL, but ......

 

Dennis

This is what the post is about. To alert 65+ divers so they can adjust. Pleasant journeys.

[dakrewser]

Again, it doesn't get you set up with another dive shop. That was the only dive shop through HAL. If I had known before hand I could have booked with some friends with another dive shop.

 

The age restrictions are clearly set out in the tour description, both on-line and in the excursions brochure. It's no one else's fault that you failed to read it, or thought you could talk your way around it.

[Culbles]

OP, it stinks that you weren't able to dive. Thanks for the heads-up that might help others in future. Did you get a refund of the price you paid?

Thanks for your reply. That is all I am trying to do is inform scuba diving cruisers. If you know all of the limits you can make better decisions. Cruise on.

[BeagleOne]

Yes the age restriction was not clear at booking and I should not have been allowed to book the dive. Yes I pushed to see if I could get by. It was too late to make other arrangements. Had I known prior to booking I would have made other arrangements.

 

Huh. I just checked out the HAL page and for every scuba excursion on Bonaire, the minimum and maximum ages were clearly listed as soon as I clicked on "view details". It's your fault, and only yours, that you weren't aware of that, and your use of "discrimination" in the thread title, your completely inapt comparison to racial discrimination, and your attacks on other posters really don't help your claim that all you want to do is inform others.

[Culbles]

We have no idea who you are replying to.. May I suggest you read the Rules of CC..If you are replying to someone directly you should quote them..You also can't tell someone that their post is stupid on CC or you will be banned from posting on this board..Please,you are new here..Read the rules & follow them so you don't have problems with the board management.. People are upset because you stated that HAL is discriminating because of age...Please change your tune, so you will be welcome here..It's a great board & you will learn a great deal about cruising on it..

That reply was intended for Boytjie but apparently the "quote" button was not populated for the reply. I did not call anyone "stupid" but I did say the reply was. Another one of your 4 star cruisers that can say anything they want whether it has any merit or not. I am sorry if it offends you that I see HAL discriminating against age. It totally surprises me. The ship was full of elderly cruisers. Myself included. I saw wheel chairs, canes, and scooters in use on ship during the trip. I saw physically handicapped people boarding and departing from tenders that should not have been allowed to do so because of the physical limitations and danger. My subject was about being denied service based solely on age, not medical or physical, just age. Something you should be aware of.

[Culbles]

Huh. I just checked out the HAL page and for every scuba excursion on Bonaire, the minimum and maximum ages were clearly listed as soon as I clicked on "view details". It's your fault, and only yours, that you weren't aware of that, and your use of "discrimination" in the thread title, your completely inapt comparison to racial discrimination, and your attacks on other posters really don't help your claim that all you want to do is inform others.

Not "attacks", responses. I feel victimized just for having posted. A lot of attacks based on other issues rather than "age". And it really doesn't matter about a minimum or maximum limit, it is still "age" discrimination. Whether I read it or overlooked it, it is still based solely on "age". That is a blanket policy just like race, religion, sex, etc.

[smokinmike]

OP hit upon one of the very many reasons why divers should be very reluctant to use cruise line dive excursions. I take my own gear and make my own plans. With the information and communication available today, there's no reason to settle for what a ship has to offer.

 

. . . and those of you preaching "safety", get on one of the boats of the other dive ops on Bonaire - you'll see plenty of folks over 65. This age requirement has nothing to with certification, skill or ability and everything to do with limiting the financial exposure of cruise lines.

 

Old man rant over.

[Host Walt]

Several posts have been removed. Just a reminder about our posting guidelines:

 

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[Stratheden]

You are right and wrong. The ship upholds the USA drinking law (21) even in foreign ports and international waters.

 

I am sorry but this is incorrect. When cruising out of Australia and New Zealand on HAL the drinking age is 18.

[G&G]

On a related issue, on a recent cruise I was required to sign a release not on the ship but in the boat on the way to our snorkel site. This was in Roatan. The release stated that I was in good health and the tour operator would not be responsible for any injuries that may occur during the tour. I found it amazing how quickly everyone signed the releases without any discussions except for me. Though this may not be unusual there was no mention in the shore excursion description that this would be required.

 

I asked the tour guide what if I failed to sign the release. He stated I would not be allowed in the water. After the tour I reported this to the Shore Excursion personnel on the ship.

[Aquahound]

Not "attacks", responses. I feel victimized just for having posted. A lot of attacks based on other issues rather than "age". And it really doesn't matter about a minimum or maximum limit, it is still "age" discrimination. Whether I read it or overlooked it, it is still based solely on "age". That is a blanket policy just like race, religion, sex, etc.

 

And that right there is why you're getting the responses you are. No, it is not age discrimination. It's an age limit. HUGE difference.

[regnig]

And that right there is why you're getting the responses you are. No, it is not age discrimination. It's an age limit. HUGE difference.

 

Aquahound I must agree with you. It is no more discriminating than Amusement parks having height restrictions. My youngest granddaughter is short for her age and has been prohibited from several rides as a result. While disappointed it has never ruined her entire experience though.

 

I truly have sympathy for him if this experience ruined his entire cruise but, I'm still confused as to why the OP booked the excursion in the first place since the age restriction was noted in the on-line description and then in the paperwork that was awaiting for him in his stateroom upon embarkation. Also since he has stated he was aware of RCI's age restriction that should have prompted him to double check HAL's.

[jadona48]

Thanks for your post OP and welcome to the world of cruise critic, critic being the operative word. It is sad that some feel the need to condemn you for your efforts in helping others. I for one appreciate the reminder to read everything before signing.

[hrhdhd]

Given that HAL knows the ages of passengers, the system should automatically reject bookings that do not meet age requirements. If I read that the age limit was 65 but was allowed to book anyway, I'd be frustrated, too.

[dakrewser]

Given that HAL knows the ages of passengers, the system should automatically reject bookings that do not meet age requirements. If I read that the age limit was 65 but was allowed to book anyway, I'd be frustrated, too.

 

Nonsense. If you read that the age limit was 65, knew you were over 65 - why would you try to book??

 

Either the OP didn't bother to read the description, or did and planned to wave his credentials around in the hope of getting a waiver from the restriction. In neither case is there any form of discrimination. In neither case does any fault attach to anyone other than the OP.

[cruz chic]

Given that HAL knows the ages of passengers, the system should automatically reject bookings that do not meet age requirements. If I read that the age limit was 65 but was allowed to book anyway, I'd be frustrated, too.

 

Hal's systems are intelligent enough for something like that. How about taking personal responsibility.

[3rdGenCunarder]

On a related issue, on a recent cruise I was required to sign a release not on the ship but in the boat on the way to our snorkel site. This was in Roatan. The release stated that I was in good health and the tour operator would not be responsible for any injuries that may occur during the tour. I found it amazing how quickly everyone signed the releases without any discussions except for me. Though this may not be unusual there was no mention in the shore excursion description that this would be required.

 

I asked the tour guide what if I failed to sign the release. He stated I would not be allowed in the water. After the tour I reported this to the Shore Excursion personnel on the ship.

 

Waivers aren't unusual on active trips. I've signed plenty of waivers for snorkel trips and horseback riding. I've done a lot of industrial tours that required waivers. The world is driven by lawyers and insurance companies. Their attitude is that they have to protect the vendor, whether it's HAL or a tour operator.

 

On a lighter note, the funniest restriction I ever saw on a tour was on a HAL tour in Canada to a hydro power plant. It was in the description, but just in case, the local tour guide asked again before we left the port--if you're pregnant, you can't go into the power plant. (Exposure to the electromagnetic fields around the generators) The bus erupted in laughter given HAL's demographic and the rather obvious "past that" ages of the passengers on the bus. I believe I heard a few muttered comments about miracles.

 

BUT then there was a second restriction that was not in the description and should have been. No pacemakers. One man on the bus had a pacemaker. He chose to not take the tour, as he could only see the information center, not the actual power plant. Fortunately, there was a waiting list and a standby person was waiting and able to go in his place. When we got back, I went to the tour office and told them they needed to add the pacemaker warning to the description. I hope the man who didn't take the tour was able to get his money back, and I would expect his experience would lead to a change in the description, but I figured another comment on it wouldn't hurt.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Hal's systems are intelligent enough for something like that. How about taking personal responsibility.

 

Sadly, I think that's an endangered behavior.

 

I doubt the system is set up to cross-check for personal details like age, although it could be.

[jimdalva]

Last month my wife and I tried to book some excursions on Celebrity, but somehow they added our ages together and listed my wife's age as 115. A pop up said 'Sorry 85 is the cut off for booking excursions' So now we know. :confused:

[cruz chic]

Sadly, I think that's an endangered behavior.

 

I doubt the system is set up to cross-check for personal details like age, although it could be.

 

Yikes, I meant to say Hal's systems aren't intelligent enough :o.

[G&G]

Waivers aren't unusual on active trips. I've signed plenty of waivers for snorkel trips and horseback riding. I've done a lot of industrial tours that required waivers. The world is driven by lawyers and insurance companies. Their attitude is that they have to protect the vendor, whether it's HAL or a tour operator.

 

.

 

You are correct but my point was that HAL or any other cruise lines should tell you in the tour description that you may be required to sign a waiver. I have snorkeled many times in all parts of the world and only had to sign a waiver while on the tour boat twice; once in Roatan the other in Belize.

 

I may be wrong but I thought I read on the cruise critic that HAL tours are more expensive than private tours in part to pay for cost of insurance.

[Snook]

Thanks Host Walt for posting that guidelines reminder. It is sad that you have to do this occasionally but I guess that’s the way things are. I would guess that 90% of the Cruise Critic posters are helpful and courteous. We are fortunate that some of our posters are seasoned cruisers and are quite pleased to share their knowledge and experiences. I’ve asked some questions on this board and received very good responses. Only once did it get a disrespectful reply. And yes, I think I remember being a little brash once or twice myself, but not very often. I’ve misspelled words occasionally and have been courteously corrected (most of the time). So I’m going to just enjoy the board and learn all I can. I think the theme of this thread was being too old to dive. Well, I was a scuba diver, and now I am too old to safely do it, so I don’t. But I can still snorkel at Half Moon Cay.