How long must we wait for the Anthem to leave New JERSEY.

[alfaeric]

One other note about the business decision...

 

If I'm not mistaken, the Anthem and Quantum are far more efficient (energy per passenger) ships than the Voyager or Freedom class are. So given the variable of operating a ship not counting passengers- I would not be surprised that the amount of energy that the ship uses is not that much more than the Explorer.

 

So given that, and knowing that many of the rest of the expenses are related to the number of passengers- it's not a stretch to see that the per person cost would have to be close to what the cheapest years of the Explorer was PLUS the cabins taken would sum to something between the Explorer and the Liberty.

 

Right now, prices are higher than both, and the number of passenger is also higher than both.

 

So a LOT of passengers would have to not sail on the Anthem for it to make any business sense to bring one of the older ships back.

 

(for reference, while I've not seen direct data about the Anthem and Quantum, I have seen data that the Oasis ships uses as much energy as Freedom ships on the same route with 50% MORE passengers. We know that the Anthem is pretty near a Freedom ship in size and capacity, so it's not hard to figure it would more efficient).

Edited March 1, 2016 by alfaeric

[caribbean sailor]

Rotflmao...:D

 

We have been waiting for a new ship in NJ for years. Now that we have one....you want to get rid of it??? NOOOOOOOOOO.

 

I guess we disagree on Quantum class.But have a great next cruise.We love the Freedom and Voyager class. :)

[alfaeric]

I guess we disagree on Quantum class.But have a great next cruise.We love the Freedom and Voyager class. :)

 

Just out of curiosity- since you like that class so much, is there a reason you don't just sail on them? They do actually sail out of many ports.... Canaveral, Ft. Lauderdale, San Juan, Miami, Galveston, etc.

 

I'm not sure why the fact that you don't like the Quantum stops you from doing that.

[Thetrail]

Hey, Trail, from your signature I don't know which region of the world you're from. I do know, that there was a lot of consternation on this board from the FL folks that NYC area got a brand new and advanced ship. Eat your heart out. It is a cold weather designed ship--so live with it and nobody is twisting your arm for to you to sail out of the NE. L

about your post, but just to clarify, I live in PA. about an hours drive from Bayonne and a two hour drive from Baltimore if I drive real fast! Love being able to sail out of both ports, but also sail constantly out of Ft. Lauderdale, PC, and Miami and PR....K.O.:)

[Thetrail]

People are never happy.

Despite some of my posts towards folks that don't have the facts or just don't have a clue period, I'm extremely happy!....K.O.:)....Happy Cruising Champagne!;)

[Thetrail]

DUH - because its the topic of this thread, and I happen to agree (along with plenty of other folks) with the original poster that it makes no sense to sustain Anthem there (during winter months).

 

Other than localized poo-pooing noise from those clearly in denial, it's equally interesting that there has been no viable case made so far by anyone to disprove the original poster's points - which is that it makes no sense to sustain this new large ship out of Bayonne based on current events.

 

FYI - I've lived most of my life in the great white north and plenty of snow and cold, and know exactly / firsthand how disruptive it can be towards regular life....let alone running a competitive business in the middle of it.

 

The risks are clear, easy to understand, and have now been proven in real life. People still in denial are only fooling themselves on this significant problem, no one else. People located in the area who are posting are conveying the impression to others:

 

1) the problems aren't real/significant; or,

2) the problems will somehow mysteriously go away over time; or,

3) any difference of opinion is some kind of insult to their personal regional "neighborhood"; or

4) there's some kind of "jealousy" for that particular ship being in Bayonne (which made me laugh out loud).

 

Just like there is a greater risk cruising the Caribbean during hurricane season (which is why less ships are deployed there at that time), the Bayonne winter weather debacle of 2016 has proven the same kind of risk-based caution point about that scenario.

 

Maybe going forward at some point they'll beef up Bayonne cruise capacities during a better weather season. Perhaps even increase the Anthem itineraries somehow.

 

But it would come as no surprise if RCI announced a change to their plans for this port in the winter period, especially after the toll it's taken on passengers, crew, financial elements, and the corresponding negative publicity toward this cruise line.

They won't and it will be a shock if they do not just a surprise.....:rolleyes:

[alfaeric]

Other than localized poo-pooing noise from those clearly in denial, it's equally interesting that there has been no viable case made so far by anyone to disprove the original poster's points - which is that it makes no sense to sustain this new large ship out of Bayonne based on current events.

 

So you think two cruises proves the original post that it's a bad idea to have a winter cruise out of New Jersey?

 

Let's do some math....

 

There have been annual cruises from there since at least 2004 (totally ignoring this shipping history of New York, btw). So that's (not including 2015-16) 11 winters. Winter is 13 weeks of the year- and since the weather is plus/minus actual winter (get bad weather in November and good weather in March, roughly) for ONE ship, averaging one cruise per week, that's 141 winter cruises for one cruise line using one ship per season.

 

Two of 141 is 1.42% of all cruises have been interrupted by a winter storm enough that we have heard about it.

 

I'm no stats guy, but I don't think 1.42% true mean that the theory of cruising in the winter is a horrible idea is proven.

 

The reality is that more than one ship sails out of the New York area every week, which lowers that percent true even more. So I'm not sure how two instances on one ship proves the theory.

 

Unless you want it to prove your theory. Doesn't prove it to me.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

So you think two cruises proves the original post that it's a bad idea to have a winter cruise out of New Jersey?

Nope...realized it long before the first Anthem ship ever left that port.

 

Now history is unfolding and simply seeing it validated twice already in a short period of time. Maybe 3 strikes and they'll be out.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

They won't and it will be a shock if they do not just a surprise.....:rolleyes:

I can understand and respect that view.

 

Then again...many were "shocked" with the Quantum move to China too.

[fred30]

The Quantum and the Anthem are trying to follow a tough act. The Explorer was as very well liked ship with a great crew. Many seasoned cruisers said the EOS had the best crew in the fleet. I don't think the Anthem is at that point yet and I'm not sure if it ever will be.

[LMaxwell]

Glad to hear your cruise went well.

 

Unfortunately 2 of the most recent ones didn't.

 

 

Actually it was 4 of the last 5 that had weather related itinerary changes.

 

the only one without a weather related itinerary change had services and venues not operating due to the storm the cruise before that.

[LMaxwell]

[quote name='alfaeric']

Two of 141 is 1.42% of all cruises have been interrupted by a winter storm enough that we have heard about it.

I'm no stats guy, [/QUOTE]

Actually it was four of the last 5. Two cruises in January had altered itineraries due to impact from storm Jonas.

So since new years, 4 out of 6 cruises have had weather related delays. That's 66% just in calendar year 2016 so far.

But claiming 2 out of 141 cruises has been impacted surely proves you're no stats guy. Even by your own math, they could not have run 141 cruises because they are all not only 1 week cruises. Some are longer itineraries. So let's say it has been 100 itineraries in 11 years. Even if we ONLY look at 2016, that is now 4% of cruises impacted. Is 4% above trivial or is it insignificant? I don't know.

String of bad luck? Maybe.

Reason to consider no more cruises after new years and before easter? Well, I feel it should at least be a consideration.

The major problem sailing from the northeast in winter time is when bad weather occurs, there is nowhere to divert to. All cruises head south along the eastern seaboard. This is not the caribbean sea where you can divert north, south, east, or west in a storm and easily find other ports of call.

I can relate to people not wanting to pay airfare for a winter getaway. I understand that. But at some point RCI will have to look at what is this costing them in calculable dollars as well as incalculable dollars / industry reputation damage.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

The Quantum and the Anthem are trying to follow a tough act. The Explorer was as very well liked ship with a great crew. Many seasoned cruisers said the EOS had the best crew in the fleet. I don't think the Anthem is at that point yet and I'm not sure if it ever will be.

Interesting...hadn't considered that perspective. Thanks.

[alfaeric]

Actually it was four of the last 5. Two cruises in January had altered itineraries due to impact from storm Jonas.

 

So since new years, 4 out of 6 cruises have had weather related delays. That's 66% just in calendar year 2016 so far.

 

But claiming 2 out of 141 cruises has been impacted surely proves you're no stats guy. Even by your own math, they could not have run 141 cruises because they are all not only 1 week cruises. Some are longer itineraries. So let's say it has been 100 itineraries in 11 years. Even if we ONLY look at 2016, that is now 4% of cruises impacted. Is 4% above trivial or is it insignificant? I don't know.

 

String of bad luck? Maybe.

 

Reason to consider no more cruises after new years and before easter? Well, I feel it should at least be a consideration.

 

The major problem sailing from the northeast in winter time is when bad weather occurs, there is nowhere to divert to. All cruises head south along the eastern seaboard. This is not the caribbean sea where you can divert north, south, east, or west in a storm and easily find other ports of call.

 

I can relate to people not wanting to pay airfare for a winter getaway. I understand that. But at some point RCI will have to look at what is this costing them in calculable dollars as well as incalculable dollars / industry reputation damage.

 

Which other two anthem cruises were cut short due to weather? I've only heard of two that were cut short.

 

I did some very off the cuff math to show that I don't think that the recent events illustrate a chronic problem with sailing in the winter. Yes, not all cruises are 7 days- some are 5, some are 9, some are more. But over a long span, having them an average of 7 days isn't a bad assumption without actually looking it up.

 

100 cruises in 141 opportunities is an average of 10 night cruises- which to me see to be high. That kind of takes out the Bermuda only trips.

 

Anyway, my point is that this is the 12th winter season out of New York for RCI. If it was so unprofitable to sail in the winter from there or Baltimore, shouldn't they have done so by now? Or do we think they are such bad business people that they are too stupid to see the obvious?

 

And if you honestly think that, why would you sail on them in the first place?

 

We will see if this lasts. But I don't see why it would not- the ship costs less to operate per person (as it's more efficient), it's carries more people, and it currently can charge a premium and still fill the ship.

 

I may be missing something, but I don't see that as a problem.

[nelblu]

Nope...realized it long before the first Anthem ship ever left that port.

 

Now history is unfolding and simply seeing it validated twice already in a short period of time. Maybe 3 strikes and they'll be out.

 

Out of what, your mind!

[cruisinfanatic]

Out of what, your mind!

Maybe out to lunch

[nelblu]

Despite some of my posts towards folks that don't have the facts or just don't have a clue period, I'm extremely happy!....K.O.:)....Happy Cruising Champagne!;)

 

I'm so very glad that you are the only genius on this board and has all of the facts. You think a lot of yourself or you're are sitting in on RCL board meetings. Go cruise out of FL or SJ and leave Bayonne to the rest of the misinformed.

[tlatrice]

Reason to consider no more cruises after new years and before easter? Well, I feel it should at least be a consideration.

 

Why? Because YOU don't want to sail at that time of year from that location? It seems that plenty of others do.

 

LOL....I didn't realize anyone actually believed that...especially after RCI admitted later they did it to accelerate getting more capacity into the Asian market.

 

OK. So that's still not winter weather related.

 

So should we not have ships sailing out of Galveston because of the fog issues that occur during March and April? Or, as others have mentioned, hurricane season? That would mean we would have sailings out of Galveston December, January, February and May.

 

If you want Anthem home ported from the south, just say it. But don't make up reasons to justify it. The weather isn't an issue in Bayonne anymore than it is anywhere else during their 'bad weather' seasons.

[caribbean sailor]

Extremely unlikely. Actually more than extremely unlikely.

Why would anything change? It's a high demand port year round since 2004. Nothing has changed except for change of ships from time to time. I'm 110% sure that all the cruise lines that sail out of Bayonne, New York, and Baltimore year round will change absolutely nothing.

I'm sure those lines are grateful that you are worrying about them though, LOL

 

I think that is the problem changing the ship to the Anthem. :mad:

[LMaxwell]

Why? Because YOU don't want to sail at that time of year from that location? It seems that plenty of others do.

 

No. Can you read? I explained why it could be a consideration. Then you quoted me out of context and responded illogically. :rolleyes:

[LMaxwell]

Which other two anthem cruises were cut short due to weather? I've only heard of two that were cut short.

 

I did some very off the cuff math to show that I don't think that the recent events illustrate a chronic problem with sailing in the winter. Yes, not all cruises are 7 days- some are 5, some are 9, some are more. But over a long span, having them an average of 7 days isn't a bad assumption without actually looking it up.

 

100 cruises in 141 opportunities is an average of 10 night cruises- which to me see to be high. That kind of takes out the Bermuda only trips.

 

Anyway, my point is that this is the 12th winter season out of New York for RCI. If it was so unprofitable to sail in the winter from there or Baltimore, shouldn't they have done so by now? Or do we think they are such bad business people that they are too stupid to see the obvious?

 

And if you honestly think that, why would you sail on them in the first place?

 

We will see if this lasts. But I don't see why it would not- the ship costs less to operate per person (as it's more efficient), it's carries more people, and it currently can charge a premium and still fill the ship.

 

I may be missing something, but I don't see that as a problem.

 

The Jan 25 cruise was cut short. The cruise preceding that (Jan 12 maybe?)had lengthened itin. Please read what I said: Impacted itinerary. The people on the Jan 25th cruise are still fighting over RCI over their compensation which was an insult, especially considering the compensation other cruises have gotten.

 

You may want to check winter itineraries again. They do not go to Bermuda at all. Bermuda is effectively "closed" for the season in the winter, no cruises call there. So that knocks out the 5 and 7's to Bermuda. there are some 7 day bahamas itineraries. The rest are 9 - 12 days. The 3 night sampler (next sailing) is an outlier. Either way; the average on a winter cruise is more than one week sailings.

 

I don't think RCI are stupid or employ people bad at business. I only said at some point they have to heavily consider the damage that is calculable and the damage that is beyond simple calculation and determine if they should operate from the northeast in winter weather. Impacted itineraries, many refunds and future credits issued, no real viable options for diverting to other ports. Like I said; a string of bad luck? Maybe. But if next year is a repeat of this year, and the year after that....well, how much bad luck before you say Florida here we come?

 

There are other cruise lines that have had a LOT of tax subsidies thrown at them to sail from less than ideal ports in the winter and after a couple of years the damage to their business in refunds and public perception made them throw in the towel. Look at Princess and Houston.

 

So we will see. NCL hasn't had nearly the bad luck RCI has had this year sailing from the same location. :confused:

[LMaxwell]

 

So should we not have ships sailing out of Galveston because of the fog issues that occur during March and April? Or, as others have mentioned, hurricane season? That would mean we would have sailings out of Galveston December, January, February and May.

 

If you want Anthem home ported from the south, just say it. But don't make up reasons to justify it. The weather isn't an issue in Bayonne anymore than it is anywhere else during their 'bad weather' seasons.

 

Galveston has not been the problem that Houston has been, which is why Princess is leaving Houston.

 

Re-routing in hurricane seasons has already been addressed and explained.

 

I, for one, could not care less about getting Anthem in the south. There's a lot about the ship that I have no personal interest in it.

 

If ships could easily divert elsewhere from Bayonne I'd say the weather was not an issue. But they can't. So it is.

[caribbean sailor]

The Quantum and the Anthem are trying to follow a tough act. The Explorer was as very well liked ship with a great crew. Many seasoned cruisers said the EOS had the best crew in the fleet. I don't think the Anthem is at that point yet and I'm not sure if it ever will be.

 

Out of fourteen cruises half were on the Explorer.Great ship always had a great cruise. :) :) :)

[CRUISEFAN0001]

If you want Anthem home ported from the south, just say it.

Just because it makes a great deal of sense during the winter months doesn't mean I (or anyone else) want it. The two are not related.

 

That's an RCI decision. Time will tell.

[Thetrail]

Actually it was four of the last 5. Two cruises in January had altered itineraries due to impact from storm Jonas.

 

So since new years, 4 out of 6 cruises have had weather related delays. That's 66% just in calendar year 2016 so far.

 

But claiming 2 out of 141 cruises has been impacted surely proves you're no stats guy. Even by your own math, they could not have run 141 cruises because they are all not only 1 week cruises. Some are longer itineraries. So let's say it has been 100 itineraries in 11 years. Even if we ONLY look at 2016, that is now 4% of cruises impacted. Is 4% above trivial or is it insignificant? I don't know.

 

String of bad luck? Maybe.

 

Reason to consider no more cruises after new years and before easter? Well, I feel it should at least be a consideration.

 

The major problem sailing from the northeast in winter time is when bad weather occurs, there is nowhere to divert to. All cruises head south along the eastern seaboard. This is not the caribbean sea where you can divert north, south, east, or west in a storm and easily find other ports of call.

 

I can relate to people not wanting to pay airfare for a winter getaway. I understand that. But at some point RCI will have to look at what is this costing them in calculable dollars as well as incalculable dollars / industry reputation damage.

PROVE he is a "stats" guy, he went back of X number of cruises and gave you the STATS.....:rolleyes: