Poor experience on the Infinity

[north29]

and cruise lines are no exception especially if you do not fit the predominate people in the environment.

I have a friend, retired military, who cannot go through TSA with out being singled out and given the whole treatment. He looks like any average citizen. I did not believe him, I was traveling with him and yes TSA did its thing. I was flying through Orlando, and saw a look alike, I actually though it was my friend. I approached him and had to ask his experiences with TSA, yes he gets the full Treatment every time he goes through security.

 

OP it should not happen, but it does. Security will never apologize I can tell you that from experience. Maybe the employees should have handled it differently but who knows why, lack of training, cultural differences and many other reasons.

[sr4mjc]

If I might as a question regarding this cruise, how did they handle passengers who wanted to disembark early on the first day of the overnight? Were there windows of time? And if you left the next morning, when was the earliest you could walk off with your luggage on your own?

[vtcruising]

Thank you for all the replies. Some did make me smile, so thank you for that too.

 

Don't get me wrong, we did enjoy the cruise. We met great people along the way, to include crew members. We enjoyed the food, the ports, tours, and everything else. We do partake in most activities and frequent the casino, even after the incident. No, we don't let this ruin our cruise, especially with the amount of money we paid for. Yes, for many this would be a trip of a lifetime and yes, we do try to laugh it off and even joked with our cruise friends about cleaning after their plates, refill their coffee, etc. I'm sure many cruisecritic friends we met on the cruise would vouch that we're not a complainers nor "needy" cruisers. In fact, we kept repeating to them of how blessed we are to be on the cruise and to experience that part of the world. With our line of work, we don't get insulted easy but we do know a thing or two about proper customer service.

 

We started cruising less than four years ago and this was cruise number 11 for us. We're somewhat familiar with cruising and what to expect from them.

 

I do think these incidents can be done better and differently and that's the reason of my original post.

 

They shouldn't have told us that we were in the wrong area of the ship because we're crew members. For example, both the medical staff and the casino staff could have requested to see our sea pass instead. That would be a more friendly approach than telling us to go to the "other office" or telling us that we shouldn't be in the casino because we're crewmembers.

 

I understand they have a job to do but again, there are different and more proper ways to do your job to accomplish the same result.

 

You sound like a class act! I commend you for taking the time to talk with Guest Relations and Security. Your feedback likely helped and will hopefully be utilized in educating staff on how to continue to do their jobs well, while being respectful to all they encounter (which seems to be the usual for ship staff).

[TxnAquarian]

Maybe I'm clueless, but I don't understand what this has to do with racial profiling. I don't think the race was brought up to the OP when these situations happened. My partner and I both mainly cruise with the luxury lines and therefore are much younger in our 30s and passengers and crew always think we are staff. We have been directed out of events onboard many times because officers didn't realize we were passengers. We have been sent into the crew entrance when reboarding at ports. We have had to show our room keys to prove otherwise. Other guests ask us questions about the ship thinking we are staff. Doesn't bother us. I'm not discounting what the OP is saying. I just don't understand what being Asian has to do with anything :confused:

 

Michael

[Fouremco]

Maybe I'm clueless, but I don't understand what this has to do with racial profiling. I don't think the race was brought up to the OP when these situations happened. My partner and I both mainly cruise with the luxury lines and therefore are much younger in our 30s and passengers and crew always think we are staff. We have been directed out of events onboard many times because officers didn't realize we were passengers. We have been sent into the crew entrance when reboarding at ports. We have had to show our room keys to prove otherwise. Other guests ask us questions about the ship thinking we are staff. Doesn't bother us. I'm not discounting what the OP is saying. I just don't understand what being Asian has to do with anything :confused:

 

Michael

Profiling is wrong, be it based on race, age, length of hair or any other distinguishing characteristic. In the OP's case, the crew members had a mental profile of passengers that excluded Asians, while in your case, the crew members' passenger profile excluded those in their 30s.

 

It's easy for you to laugh off, because agism isn't a normal part of your everyday life. For those faced with racism on a lifelong basis, it's a totally different story. Although published over 50 years ago, you might want to read Black Like Me by journalist John Howard Griffin to acquire a different perspective.

[clojacks]

This was a 14 day cruise around Cape Horn. Not a lot of under 40's. Maybe at most 5%, and that might be high by about 3%. The OP is Indonesian and his partner was Filipino. With the exception of the few elderly Asian passengers, the vast, VAST, majority of cruisers did not fit the same demographic as the OP. I highly, highly doubt that any of the other 40 year old non-Asian passengers or the other over 60 year old Asian passengers were similarly approached. So, while the crew members may not have said, "you must be a crew member because you are Asian and younger like many of of them" to Rick, you don't have to imply too much to know what they were saying. Absolutely there was profiling occurring.

Edited March 17, 2016 by clojacks

[clojacks]

Lastly, before I excuse myself from this discussion, I don't believe that Rick's main objection has been that he was profiled, but rather in the manner that it happened and the subsequent discussions and actions taken by the onboard management.

[4774Papa]

Profiling is wrong, be it based on race, age, length of hair or any other distinguishing characteristic. In the OP's case, the crew members had a mental profile of passengers that excluded Asians, while in your case, the crew members' passenger profile excluded those in their 30s.

 

It's easy for you to laugh off, because agism isn't a normal part of your everyday life. For those faced with racism on a lifelong basis, it's a totally different story. Although published over 50 years ago, you might want to read Black Like Me by journalist John Howard Griffin to acquire a different perspective.

 

Profiling is not wrong if you are security and looking for terrorists or with the FBI and profiling like on Criminal Minds.

 

Assuming that people are what they are because of race is wrong.

[livingasia]

This was a 14 day cruise around Cape Horn. Not a lot of under 40's. Maybe at most 5%, and that might be high by about 3%. The OP is Indonesian and his partner was Filipino. With the exception of the few elderly Asian passengers, the vast, VAST, majority of cruisers did not fit the same demographic as the OP. I highly, highly doubt that any of the other 40 year old non-Asian passengers or the other over 60 year old Asian passengers were similarly approached. So, while the crew members may not have said, "you must be a crew member because you are Asian and younger like many of of them" to Rick, you don't have to imply too much to know what they were saying. Absolutely there was profiling occurring.

 

Profiling occurs everywhere and always has done. I don't see it as a big issue and suspect 99% of people don't either. The 'typical' cruiser fits a profile. Exceptions to that get eyebrow's raised but no big deal. Not really sure what is the issue the OP is going on about other than the fact he felt slighted it happened. If he is Indonesian, he'd expect this kind of behavior as it happens 24/7 back home to anyone who is not Indonesian. Same with a Filipino. EDIT. I meant this to come across as, if you are not from that area, you will raise eyebrows (profiled). Seen it myself in both countries.

Edited March 17, 2016 by livingasia

[clojacks]

Profiling occurs everywhere and always has done. I don't see it as a big issue and suspect 99% of don't either. The 'typical' cruiser fits a profile. Exceptions to that get eyebrow's raised but no big deal. Not really sure what is the issue the OP is going on about other than the fact he felt slighted it happened. If he is Indonesian, he'd expect this kind of behavior as it happens 24/7 back home to anyone who is not Indonesian. Same with a Filipino.

 

You may have benefited from reading my post directly below the one you quoted....

[livingasia]

You may have benefited from reading my post directly below the one you quoted....

 

Why? I am a white British Caucasian living for nearly 22 years in Florida, Singapore & Thailand. I still get looked at oddly everyday in Asia. Some of the oddest questions I ever got came from within Florida when I moved there and tried opening a bank account that handles International activity or buying a car for cash, rather than credit. Some folk need to move away from the textbook and open their eyes to what actually happens. It is not an automatic assumption of something (or someone) being bad, but rather just something they have not experienced before and often are cautious/unsure how to proceed on that basis.

 

It is no great sweat in the bigger scheme of things.

 

Edit, Just clarified more the issues I found moving to work in Florida with a work permit.

Edited March 17, 2016 by livingasia

[Lakesregion]

I know that these incidents happen and can be annoying/embarrassing/infuriating but as well as demographic, could it also be a matter of dress?

 

When I still worked, if I went to shops at lunchtime, I was constantly mistaken for a member of staff. I did not wear any type of uniform to work. If I visited shops wearing my out of work clothing, it never happened.

 

Whenever we go ashore, as well as pre- and post-cruise, we can easily spot cruise ship crew members. It is not their ethnicity or even their age but their obvious fitness. their respectful manner and the way they dress - always very smart casual. Locals of similar age and ethnicity rarely look as smart [while casual] or as well-kept [health and fitness wise] and usually do not behave as well.

 

I think that I would take it as a compliment to be thought a member of the crew. This does not, however, excuse the lack of apology. However, cruising has taught us that there are very many people in this world who badly handle being proved wrong.

 

Very astute observation. I was on the same thought process. If the ship has certain policies or where the crew is allowed and not allowed when off duty and you are dressed in like fashion to the bulk of the crew then you can expect this reaction and the questions. They are doing the right job.

 

Obviously the OP and his partner were dressed better than the average passenger otherwise they would have passed as passengers. Today it is easier to tell the off duty crew than the passengers as so many passengers dress worse that the California homeless population.

[aSiAnRiCk]

Thank you everyone who have posted replies. I appreciate them all. Also, thank you to those with the kind words and support.

 

I'm amazed how some people are quick to judge and brushed it off like it's nothing. If you think that it's okay for cruise staff to "assume" that you don't belong in a specific area of the ship because you look like a crew member, well more power to you but to me, it's unacceptable.

 

My concern is about the way we were approached and that the situation could've been handled differently.

 

ps: Art, it was very nice to meet you and the wife and hope we'll meet again!

[SFO-F/A]

Hey Rick, sorry this happened to you. I met Rick at sail away, a friendly guy who didn't look like a crew member to me, just a guy excited about the fantastic trip around Cape Horn! I saw him occasionally in passing while onboard. The final day we shared a tour of Valparaiso, a great winery tour and yummy lunch and a quick tour of Santiago. He never mentioned these incidents to me. We had a great tour. He's a cool, classy guy.

[sidwich]

I haven't met Rick, but I do identify with what he's speaking about, and yes, it does seem to happen on cruises. I traveled with my parents and brother on a Panama Canal cruise a few years ago, and over the course of the cruise, my brother got handed luggage to carry, I was handed trays to carry in the Lido, and on one memorable occasion my mother was told to clean a passenger's cabin. :eek:

 

Yes, we're Asian.

 

I'll note this was on another cruise line, and none of those incidents involved the ship's crew (who were all excellent). It was all other passengers who were clearly not used to cruising with Asian passengers.

 

At the time my brother and I were in our twenties, my mother was in her fifties. (For some reason, my father was never mistaken for a crew member).

 

As for the question to whether attire makes a difference, my mother was wearing a Chanel traveling suit and a diamond necklace at the time. She likes to travel in style :D

[IsanTom]

Sorry about this experience! I love Celebrity, but I guess mistakes do happen!

[GaryfmCol]

Maybe I'm clueless, but I don't understand what this has to do with racial profiling. I don't think the race was brought up to the OP when these situations happened. My partner and I both mainly cruise with the luxury lines and therefore are much younger in our 30s and passengers and crew always think we are staff. We have been directed out of events onboard many times because officers didn't realize we were passengers. We have been sent into the crew entrance when reboarding at ports. We have had to show our room keys to prove otherwise. Other guests ask us questions about the ship thinking we are staff. Doesn't bother us. I'm not discounting what the OP is saying. I just don't understand what being Asian has to do with anything :confused:

 

Michael

 

I am with you, Michael.... :)

[wwcruisers]

Thank you everyone who have posted replies. I appreciate them all. Also, thank you to those with the kind words and support.

 

I'm amazed how some people are quick to judge and brushed it off like it's nothing. If you think that it's okay for cruise staff to "assume" that you don't belong in a specific area of the ship because you look like a crew member, well more power to you but to me, it's unacceptable.

 

My concern is about the way we were approached and that the situation could've been handled differently.

 

 

Rick, you and your partner sound like a couple of well-traveled, funny, nicely dressed guys. Hope that our paths cross at sea, some day. :)

But, I do think it would be funny if you two had t-shirts made up that said: CREW on one side, and NOT!! on the other side. :p

 

Oh, and one suggestion: Your partner may have initially thought that he needed to be seen in medical, and then just decided he needed a band aid. Having heard horror stories about how expensive a visit to medical can be (even for a band-aid or aspirin), I always bring a few first-aid supplies (band-aids, neosporin, anti-itch cream, alcohol wipes), along with a few OTC meds: Ibuprofen, benadryl, and immodium. It all fits nicely in a zip-lock bag, and we're prepared for any emergency -- well, almost! ;)

Edited March 18, 2016 by wwcruisers

[aSiAnRiCk]

Thank you! And he usually brings the whole pharmacy with him but apparently forgotten the bandaid lol

 

I do like the shirts idea! :)

[mdmourges]

Sure, this shouldn't have happened but I am trying to figure out how this is supposed to impact how I should treat Celebrity. My observation of all cruises I have been on is that the cruise industry employees folks from all over the world, of many different colors, religions, etc. So I can't think of the cruise industry as being a bad group when it comes to race, ethnicity, etc. I suspect the crew can sometimes be overly concerned regarding crew/guest interaction and mistakes can be made and you got caught in this net. I am sorry it happen to you.

[kalypso333]

At first thought I was shocked. After talking it over with my husband (we are a gay couple) he thought the story unbelievable. As I continued to read other posts, I regarded the first post to be credible.

 

Now I am really concerned. No one who is a passenger should be suspected of being crew. If it is not known - leave them alone. I already know there is a caste system in regards to ship crew. Some crew members are able to do things others cannot. I don't believe any passenger should be subjected to validating who they are. It should be the ships and security responsibility to know who they are questioning and they should be judicious in their accusations. In my mind whether a crew member is gambling or not is our responsibility (nor an emergent issue) and should passengers should not be questioned.

 

Kip

[4774Papa]

Sure, this shouldn't have happened but I am trying to figure out how this is supposed to impact how I should treat Celebrity. My observation of all cruises I have been on is that the cruise industry employees folks from all over the world, of many different colors, religions, etc. So I can't think of the cruise industry as being a bad group when it comes to race, ethnicity, etc. I suspect the crew can sometimes be overly concerned regarding crew/guest interaction and mistakes can be made and you got caught in this net. I am sorry it happen to you.

 

Well Said

[Clarea]

Sorry for the unpleasant experience, but thanks for sharing.

[norwegianwood57]

I can understand that the way you were treated was inappropriate.

 

But really happy to hear that the food was good and ship although old now is still a goodie. We will be on it for two cruises and are concerned that after many years now on S class only, we will find Infinity lacking.

[aSiAnRiCk]

Thank you guys.

 

The food was good though the breakfast selections hardly changed for the whole 14 days.