Carnival isn't keeping up

[whitshel]

True enough, many builds in this time frame are for Costa, HAL, Princess, P&O and the rest of the brands under the umbrella.

 

Wow, after seeing that market share page I can see why Carnival Corp isn't focusing on the Carnival brand. If you break down the avg $ per passenger Carnival is lagging way behind their other brands.

 

You mention Costa, Hal and Princess is where the new builds are going. Yup, the proof is in the pudding

 

Carnival= $669 per Pax

Princess= $1986 per Pax

Costa= $1608 per Pax

Hal= $2567 per pax

 

Royal Caribbean= $1514 per Pax

NCL=$1616 per Pax

Celebrity=$2382 per Pax

 

That's crazy to see that Princess has LESS than half the passengers but has more revenue. No other brand is anywhere close to being that low.

 

Royal Caribbeans revenue ($5.6 billion) almost doubles Carnivals revenue ($3.1 Billion).

 

Say what you want about Royals business, they obviously know what they are doing too. Maybe it's all that $3 popcorn you keep talking about :D

[jimbo5544]

Wow, after seeing that market share page I can see why Carnival Corp isn't focusing on the Carnival brand. If you break down the avg $ per passenger Carnival is lagging way behind their other brands.

 

 

 

You mention Costa, Hal and Princess is where the new builds are going. Yup, the proof is in the pudding

 

 

 

Carnival= $669 per Pax

 

Princess= $1986 per Pax

 

Costa= $1608 per Pax

 

Hal= $2567 per pax

 

 

 

Royal Caribbean= $1514 per Pax

 

NCL=$1616 per Pax

 

Celebrity=$2382 per Pax

 

 

 

That's crazy to see that Princess has LESS than half the passengers but has more revenue. No other brand is anywhere close to being that low.

 

 

 

Royal Caribbeans revenue ($5.6 billion) almost doubles Carnivals revenue ($3.1 Billion).

 

 

 

Say what you want about Royals business, they obviously know what they are doing too. Maybe it's all that $3 popcorn you keep talking about :D

 

 

Wow, thanks for the meaningless numbers, they are truly revealing..... You are correct though, they certainly lead the field in nickel and diming. I have many examples if you want to compare. Why is it that the loyal royals always need to comment and belittle the competition? It does remind me when the company used to invent their followers to do so, they have not gone back to that have they?

Edited March 24, 2016 by jimbo5544

[Maleeni]

Wow, after seeing that market share page I can see why Carnival Corp isn't focusing on the Carnival brand. If you break down the avg $ per passenger Carnival is lagging way behind their other brands.

 

You mention Costa, Hal and Princess is where the new builds are going. Yup, the proof is in the pudding

 

Carnival= $669 per Pax

Princess= $1986 per Pax

Costa= $1608 per Pax

Hal= $2567 per pax

 

Royal Caribbean= $1514 per Pax

NCL=$1616 per Pax

Celebrity=$2382 per Pax

 

That's crazy to see that Princess has LESS than half the passengers but has more revenue. No other brand is anywhere close to being that low.

 

Royal Caribbeans revenue ($5.6 billion) almost doubles Carnivals revenue ($3.1 Billion).

 

Say what you want about Royals business, they obviously know what they are doing too. Maybe it's all that $3 popcorn you keep talking about :D

 

Yowza! It's no secret that Carnival has such a hard time filling their ships that they have to offer deep deep discounts, and all those free cruises to fill them, but this also supports why so many things have been downgraded, cut back, eliminated, or converted to a pay for. It also explains the lack of new ships over the last 5 years. If it weren't for the Corp, they'd be out of business.

[LMaxwell]

Wow, thanks for the meaningless numbers, they are truly revealing..... You are correct though, they certainly lead the field in nickel and diming. I have many examples if you want to compare. Why is it that the loyal royals always need to comment and belittle the competition? It does remind me when the company used to invent their followers to do so, they have not gone back to that have they?

 

What a completely bizarre response. Almost sounds....very emotional. The numbers are not meaningless. The revenue per pax paints a very vivid picture why other brands are getting new builds branded as HAL, Princess, Costa, and not as Carnival. They can charge more for those brands.

 

It's sort of like why does Cadillac build an Escalade when they could use the factories to just produce more Chevrolet Tahoes? Because the Escalade has a significantly higher margin = more profit at lower # of units sold. Would you say the Escalade is the nickel and dime version of a Tahoe? Or would you say it is the premium version of a Tahoe?

 

As for your comment on RCI nickel and diming; you've sailed one time on a ship you were predisposed not to like; so perhaps your RAS noticed more charges. Yet, you also sailed on Sunshine, a ship sullied with issues, so much so it requires a mid-term dry dock, and yet you spend a lot of energy to tell people you never saw issues. Were you predisposed with your RAS not to notice them? Or were they genuinely not there?

Edited March 24, 2016 by LMaxwell

[bar1068]

Yowza! It's no secret that Carnival has such a hard time filling their ships that they have to offer deep deep discounts, and all those free cruises to fill them, but this also supports why so many things have been downgraded, cut back, eliminated, or converted to a pay for. It also explains the lack of new ships over the last 5 years. If it weren't for the Corp, they'd be out of business.

 

Please do provide examples of these "deep discounts" as there are a number of posts on here of folks discussing how rates seem to be on the rise and price drops and upsell offers seem to be less frequent. I've 2 cruises booked with Carnival, neither have been deeply discounted and to date fares for both have gone up since we booked. And other than the casino offers for "free" cruises, where are all these other free cruises? You've taken them?

[Podna's]

Yowza! It's no secret that Carnival has such a hard time filling their ships that they have to offer deep deep discounts, and all those free cruises to fill them, but this also supports why so many things have been downgraded, cut back, eliminated, or converted to a pay for. It also explains the lack of new ships over the last 5 years. If it weren't for the Corp, they'd be out of business.

 

 

Hard time filling ships? Deep discounts? Out of business? A little research would really help before posting here.

[Podna's]

Wow, after seeing that market share page I can see why Carnival Corp isn't focusing on the Carnival brand. If you break down the avg $ per passenger Carnival is lagging way behind their other brands.

 

 

 

You mention Costa, Hal and Princess is where the new builds are going. Yup, the proof is in the pudding

 

 

 

Carnival= $669 per Pax

 

Princess= $1986 per Pax

 

Costa= $1608 per Pax

 

Hal= $2567 per pax

 

 

 

Royal Caribbean= $1514 per Pax

 

NCL=$1616 per Pax

 

Celebrity=$2382 per Pax

 

 

 

That's crazy to see that Princess has LESS than half the passengers but has more revenue. No other brand is anywhere close to being that low.

 

 

 

Royal Caribbeans revenue ($5.6 billion) almost doubles Carnivals revenue ($3.1 Billion).

 

 

 

Say what you want about Royals business, they obviously know what they are doing too. Maybe it's all that $3 popcorn you keep talking about :D

 

 

Are these numbers fleet wide or did you pick out just 7 day cruises for example which I doubt you did. Carnival offers more 3/4 day cruises which would lower their cost per passenger tremendously, than RCL and the short cruises are pretty much non existent for Princess. Of course these cruise lines will be higher not as bad as you make it out to be.

[jimbo5544]

What a completely bizarre response. Almost sounds....very emotional. The numbers are not meaningless. The revenue per pax paints a very vivid picture why other brands are getting new builds branded as HAL, Princess, Costa, and not as Carnival. They can charge more for those brands.

 

It's sort of like why does Cadillac build an Escalade when they could use the factories to just produce more Chevrolet Tahoes? Because the Escalade has a significantly higher margin = more profit at lower # of units sold. Would you say the Escalade is the nickel and dime version of a Tahoe? Or would you say it is the premium version of a Tahoe?

 

As for your comment on RCI nickel and diming; you've sailed one time on a ship you were predisposed not to like; so perhaps your RAS noticed more charges. Yet, you also sailed on Sunshine, a ship sullied with issues, so much so it requires a mid-term dry dock, and yet you spend a lot of energy to tell people you never saw issues. Were you predisposed with your RAS not to notice them? Or were they genuinely not there?

Thanks for clearing it all up for me.... I can cancel the shrink visit now. Always loved car analogies, not sure what the point is. Is the Esclade a nickel and diming version of a Tahoe, noit it is a grosly over rpiced version. Why pay for the Escalade whe you can drive (sail to complete your analogy) a Tahoe. You actually made my point. Sunshine - sullied (great word BTW) with issues. Actually I did find that not to be true, I did find some things that bothered me and reported on them. Also, the majority of comments on her (both people commenting on my review as well as many others here) seem to portray the satisfaction with that product. Nice to know you read my review of the Sunshine....I do not lie, I saw no issues, you will say I am lying....right. Why would you even bring that up? What does that have to do with the comments at hand? Speaking of bizarre. Oh btw, did you like my review of the Sunshine?

 

Predisposed to not like Oasis....did you read my review of that? But I did sail the Sunshine (twice actually) and you did sail the Sunshine so your comments count there as well....wait a minute...you did sail on her so your first hand comments count.....right? If you are going to comment with your physco analysis of me, at least do it in an informed manner. These personal attacks are so beneath you..... and I thought we were friends....:(

[Tapi]

Sailing on Oasis to me (and many, many more here) is like an event, not a cruise. It requires tons of planning, months in advance, it eliminates any port where you have to tender, and the list goes on.

 

 

Ah, you see? We can agree on something. Our sailing on the Allure was an event, not a cruise. It was an amazing experience, like nothing we have ever experienced at sea, BUT it did not feel like a cruise. I can see why it would not appeal to many.

 

For me, sailing on the Allure was about placing a check mark on my bucket list. Been there, done that, loved it, but I'm not rushing to do it again, unless Royal comes up with new itineraries for these ships. I actually looked at Harmony in Europe but we are not ready for that yet with little kids in tow.

 

I visualize Oasis class ships like I visualize Disney World (I don't care about going there multiple times). But I know that there are people that will do Disney every time they have a chance (I have friends who only vacation at Disney, and multiple times a year. I chuckle every time they post on FB: "surprised the kids with a Disney vacation", but the expression on the kid's faces say: "crap, again??" [emoji23]). So I know that there plenty of people who will also keep sailing on Oasis class ships because they like them that much, and any other cruise ship won't be "good enough".

Edited March 24, 2016 by Tapi

[LMaxwell]

Are these numbers fleet wide or did you pick out just 7 day cruises for example which I doubt you did. Carnival offers more 3/4 day cruises which would lower their cost per passenger tremendously' date=' than RCL and the short cruises are pretty much non existent for Princess. Of course these cruise lines will be higher not as bad as you make it out to be.[/quote']

 

I think you just made their point; with shorter sailings there is less revenue per pax. It just means they are going to allocate production to where they can generate more revenue. It does not mean there is an issue per se.

[kybluecruiser]

This thread is turning into my ship is better then yours.... Bottom line is carnival is one of a multiple line corporation. The corporation decides to build new ships not the individual cruise lines. They apparently see a market for the fantasy class to keep them. They make to many billions of dollars not to know what they are doing

[LMaxwell]

Thanks for clearing it all up for me.... I can cancel the shrink visit now. Always loved car analogies, not sure what the point is. Is the Esclade a nickel and diming version of a Tahoe, noit it is a grosly over rpiced version. Why pay for the Escalade whe you can drive (sail to complete your analogy) a Tahoe. You actually made my point. Sunshine - sullied (great word BTW) with issues. Actually I did find that not to be true, I did find some things that bothered me and reported on them. Also, the majority of comments on her (both people commenting on my review as well as many others here) seem to portray the satisfaction with that product. Nice to know you read my review of the Sunshine....I do not lie, I saw no issues, you will say I am lying....right. Why would you even bring that up? What does that have to do with the comments at hand? Speaking of bizarre. Oh btw, did you like my review of the Sunshine?

 

Predisposed to not like Oasis....did you read my review of that? But I did sail the Sunshine (twice actually) and you did sail the Sunshine so your comments count there as well....wait a minute...you did sail on her so your first hand comments count.....right? If you are going to comment with your physco analysis of me, at least do it in an informed manner. These personal attacks are so beneath you..... and I thought we were friends....:(

 

I did not attack you at all. :confused:

[jimbo5544]

Ah, you see? We can agree on something. Our sailing on the Allure was an event, not a cruise. It was an amazing experience, like nothing we have ever experienced at sea, BUT it did not feel like a cruise. I can see why it would not appeal to many.

 

For me, sailing on the Allure was about placing a check mark on my bucket list. Been there, done that, loved it, but I'm not rushing to do it again, unless Royal comes up with new itineraries for these ships. I actually looked at Harmony in Europe but we are not ready for that yet with little kids in tow.

 

I visualize Oasis class ships like I visualize Disney World (I don't care about going there multiple times). But I know that there are people that will do Disney every time they have a chance (I have friends who only vacation at Disney, and multiple times a year. I chuckle every time they post on FB: "surprised the kids with a Disney vacation", but the expression on the kid's faces say: "crap, again??" [emoji23]). So I know that there plenty of people who will also keep sailing on Oasis class ships because they like them that much, and any other cruise ship won't be "good enough".

 

I agree that we agree..... I would also agree they do not have any issue in filling the two soon to be three. Now we just need to get you on something other than the oldest ship in the fleet and a red funnel.......

[jimbo5544]

I did not attack you at all. :confused:

 

I forgot the wink symbol....it was said in jest.;)

[jimbo5544]

This thread is turning into my ship is better then yours.... Bottom line is carnival is one of a multiple line corporation. The corporation decides to build new ships not the individual cruise lines. They apparently see a market for the fantasy class to keep them. They make to many billions of dollars not to know what they are doing

 

Don't go throwing logic into the equation now....;)

[winddawn]

Some of us prefer to not sail with 8000 of our closest friends.

Amen!

[Je Souhaite]

This thread is turning into my ship is better then yours.... Bottom line is carnival is one of a multiple line corporation. The corporation decides to build new ships not the individual cruise lines. They apparently see a market for the fantasy class to keep them. They make to many billions of dollars not to know what they are doing

 

Turning? Even the title suggests a comparison.

[JohnSpo]

I prefer a more laid back cruise on a medium (Conquest Class) size ship. I am not interested in the bells and whistles and crowds of a mega ship.

 

As a Carnival passenger, I like the changes they have made: Guys Burgers, Blue Iguana Cantina and Tequila Bar, Red Frog Pub, Alchemy Bar, Taste Bar, Sea Day Brunch, Steakhouse entrees in the MDR, American Table menu and even the thin crust pizza.

 

Sure there have been some cutbacks but that goes on in other cruise lines and industries.

 

In time Carnival will get their mega ships but for now I will enjoy what Carnival has to offer and at a reasonable price.:cool:

[Indytraveler83]

Actually quite interesting:

 

Who is making better profit?

 

Carnival at $700ish pp on aging, but long ago paid off ships

Or

RCI at more than double that on state of the art, but likely debt laden ships?

 

Two totally different strategies, and I really wonder which one is better business.

[Tapi]

Now we just need to get you on something other than the oldest ship in the fleet and a red funnel....

 

 

Don't you have friends in high places at Carnival? Maybe you can convince them to bring something newer to Mobile, or even Charleston!

Edited March 24, 2016 by Tapi

[jimbo5544]

Don't you have friends in high places at Carnival? Maybe you can convince them to bring something newer to Mobile, or even Charleston!

 

LOL, I have a couple but not sure I could get that done....

[kybluecruiser]

Don't you have friends in high places at Carnival? Maybe you can convince them to bring something newer to Mobile, or even Charleston!

 

 

I think they would in charleston if they would ever build a new terminal. I have wonder if they were testing the sunshine there for that purpose of porting a larger ship.

[texast518]

Yeah, anybody that thinks that is crazy:confused: Wait a minute, who could think something like that? Wait a minute, that would be me. :cool:

I see by your sailings, you do not like Carnival!

Edited March 24, 2016 by texast518

[kybluecruiser]

I see by your sailings, you do not like Carnival!

 

 

Jimbo has been a carnival basher and hater for years now here on cc

[jimbo5544]

Jimbo has been a carnival basher and hater for years now here on cc

 

Finally I am outed.....