10/22 Oosterdam Dining Change - No, I'm not kidding...

[heavenly]

Are we sure it is only the Oosterdam that is going to be affected this week? I noticed that the Volendam has the late seating available at both times for October 26 on the HAL website.

 

When I talked to her, the Ship Services rep told me the Oosterdam is the only ship doing this. She said they test on a big ship and if it works they spread it across the line. For what it's worth, our sailing was showing Early Upper, Early Lower and Main Upper waitlisted, Main Lower was showing available, so I don't think you can tell anything by that.

[ronjud]

People, please, take a breath:

 

We sailed on the M/S Zuiderdam. Oct. 8, 2005. We ran into isolation two nights another couple one night. A table for 8 ended up having two people leaving 6 empty seats, three nights, because some of us went to the Pinnacle Grill or the Lido Resturant.

 

We were one of the people who dined at the Pinnacle Grille. Believe me when I tell you that being alone at a table for 8 is awful. Our apologies to our dinning companions that we abondoned the first night to dine alone at the table for 8.

 

One night a nearby table for 6 had only two people. We invited them to join us so we'd all have someone to talk to.

 

This also happened to us on the Zaandam. The whole cruise in April 2004. I'm sure that this is one of the reasons why James Deering is trying this new approach. People, this is needed. Apparently, all of you who are against this new concept never ran into being alone at a huge table.

 

Have an open mind. If you want fixed dinning at a specfic time, I'm sure this can be arranged. HAL would not have opened the Pinnacle Grill and the Lido Buffet if there had not been a call for it.

 

Someone said, If it's not broken don't fix it. It is broken or James Deering wouldn't be trying to fix it.

 

We are looking forward to this new concept.

 

Ron and Judi

[WNYCRUISER]

I have been watching this thread closely. I can say that I am a bit concerned regarding our upcoming cruise on the Noordam in March. I guess the way I look at it, if they are going to make some kind of permanant change, what better place to start than with a new ship. "That is the way we have always done it on the Noordam"......sends shivers up my spine.

 

As for my .02, DW and I enjoy fixed dining. We prefer an early sitting. When you are used to getting up at O-dark-thirty 354 days a year, it's kind of hard to change that for eleven days of vacation. We often are up and out walking on deck, and back to the room before room service shows up. We prefer a table for two. We socialize in other areas of the ship, and we both have different interests. While we do many things together, we also separate during the day, and dinner together gives us a chance to catch up with each other about our day, and plan the next days events.

 

We have no interest in PC dining. A different table/server/table mates each night. Isn't that what the Lido is for???

 

What's next??????Personal choice rooms????? It doesn't matter what you booked or paid for, but when you get to the pier they inform you it is a first come first serve on the staterooms!:eek:

[Rotterdam]

I prefer the late seating with the same waiters......

 

NCL should call their service - "Its a pain ino the you know what to navigate our restaurants thanks to our poor setup of Free Style Dining.".

 

Is HAL going Carnivore once again?

 

Oh - I guess HAL could cut back on service in the DR once again with this move!

[RuthC]

Apparently, all of you who are against this new concept never ran into being alone at a huge table.

Au contraire. It happened to me once. Once. Out of 192 nights sailing alone.

I usually board a ship without knowing another soul on baord, and I dine at home alone most every night. Having a large table of the same tablemates each night, at a time I enjoy, is a very, very large part of the enjoyment of my cruise. I am not inclined to spend a portion of my cruising day attempting to create a dinner party each and every night.

 

And I don't care to arrive at the door to ask the maitre d' to beg others to take pity on me. My name is not Blanche DuBois.

[Krazy Kruizers]

LoveLifeAtSea

Long time mariner here and we never got an e-mail or a questionaire via regular mail about the new tipping policy.

In fact I have read several times here about people questionaires - we have never gotten anything.

[doone]

Here is another unhappy camper on this new dining times. Let's hope its a flop and it doesn't filter through the HAL fleet. I have until February for things to change!!!

[RevNeal]

Apparently, all of you who are against this new concept never ran into being alone at a huge table.

 

HARDLY.

I don't have a count of the number of nights I've eaten aboard dam ships, however I've eaten either alone or with just one other person at a table for 8 about 2 or 3 times. And I HATED it each and EVERY time. The thought of this happening EVERY night on a cruise is a deal-breaker for me. If this is what I have to look forward to, then my cruise experience is about to take a "turn for the worse." :(

[RevNeal]

Clearly, Holland America isn't communicating to their staff. I received THIS in my e-mail in response to an inquiry I shot off yesterday:

 

Dear Dr. Neal,

 

Thank you for your email regarding your upcoming cruise on board the beautiful ms Oosterdam.

 

The "Leisure" dining that you mention below is not something we have. We are still offering the two early dining times and the two late dining times. For passengers that choose not to go to dinner at their assigned time, we do have dining available in the Lido Restaurant. This dining is at your leisure. It is a buffet style dinner. Perhaps this is what you heard about?

 

If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact us. Thank you for choosing Holland America Line. We are one of the oldest and most well known names in the cruise industry, and are confident our "Tradition of Excellence" will surpass your expectations.

 

Kind Regards,

 

 

 

Brandi

Internet Agent

Holland America Line

1-877-724-5425

 

 

 

 

Topic: Existing reservation

First Name: Gregory

Last Name: Neal

Email: revneal@aol.com

Booking Number: 6598482

Message: I have received word that, beginning with the 10/22 sailing of the Oosterdam, early seating will be at 5:30 and is a combination of upper and lower. Only one seating time, both the 5:45 and 6:15 seatings are combined in this new early seating. Main Upper and Main Lower have been discontinued, it is now called "Leisure Dining" and you can show up from 7:30 until the doors close to dine. There are no confirmed late seatings.

 

Questions: Is this IDIOTIC plan true, and will it still be in effect come January 2006?

 

Thank you for your attention.

 

[gizmo]

Rev,

 

I have to give you credit for trying.

 

It is a shame that Hal cannot communicate with their staff in this day and age. It has happened over and over again. All it takes is for someone to take the responsibility to notify everyone what is going on.

[gizmo]

Rev,

 

I have to give you credit for trying.

 

It is a shame that Hal cannot communicate with their staff in this day and age. It has happened over and over again. All it takes is for someone to take the responsibility to notify everyone what is going on.

[KatWag]

Peaches -

 

We've sailed Radisson several times and found the open dining to be terrific. (I'm one of the minority here - I was excited to hear HAL was trying this.) It's really nice to meet folks in one of the lounges, hit it off, and just pop into dinner together. We never had to wait, either. The open dining on the luxury ships is quite different from Princess's Personal Choice options. (We've done Princess twice with Personal Choice dining.) But... you sure pay a good premium for the luxury ships.

 

One possible issue - is the dining room and staff configuration going to be able to handle it? My understanding is that the reason Crystal can't offer the more upscale "open dining" option the other luxury lines market is that their dining rooms are too small to be able to accomodate all the diners at one time or close to it.

 

But, I guess that's why it's a test. :)

[ronjud]

Dear Blanche,

We're from Coventry, R. I. Been in Florida for 15 years. Hope you have smooth seas, sunny skies, and filled tables on all your future sailings.

Regards,

Ron and Judi.

[Joanandjoe]

Kathy, as noted in our prior post on this thread, we loved the open dining or Windstar and Radisson, but don't think it will work on a Vista ship that has 3 to 4 times as many PAX as the Radisson ships. They would need to widen the corridors and add additional dining areas. Radisson can probably seat 2/3 of the PAX as once, HAL only about half. That's a big difference. The configuaration of the dining rooms is also a big difference: on the Navigator, you could enter the dining rooms at either end. I don't think that's the case on the Vista ships.

 

Yes, we had several times on the Radisson Navigator when we simply wandered into dinner with people we met in the lounges. One can't do that for the main HAL dining room, and it's a pity. Presumably one can still go to the Lido in that situation, and there may be space available in the Pinnacle.

 

HAL could have done this experiment right if they had given people about one month's advance notice, asked who wanted to try the experiment, and then used part of the dining room (presumably upper) for the experiment. That would still have left two settings, early and late, for normal HAL dining. Many of us have strong preferences for dinner time (we prefer early, but not as early as 5:30), and would be very unhappy if we had to switch. On our first cruise (old Noordam, Alaska, 1998), we reserved early dining a year in advance, but still ended up with late due to a HAL error. They compensated us with a large room upgrade from H to C; nonetheless, eating late, and then missing the shows because they were too late for us (except for the few times they were held before dinner) totally messed us up. We ended up taking snacks at around 6 p.m., then eating only half our dinner. Not what we bargained for!

[ahoymatey3]

Rev and RuthC - you hit the nail on the head for me. I cruise solo as well. This new 'scheme' would be totally unacceptable for me.

 

Earlier in the post someone described cruise execs that they know as 'forward-looking', 'innovative' and 'thinking out of the box'. Copying freestyle dining does not fall into any of those categories. Its just copying.

[gizmo]

Peaches -

 

We've sailed Radisson several times and found the open dining to be terrific. (I'm one of the minority here - I was excited to hear HAL was trying this.) It's really nice to meet folks in one of the lounges, hit it off, and just pop into dinner together. We never had to wait, either. The open dining on the luxury ships is quite different from Princess's Personal Choice options. (We've done Princess twice with Personal Choice dining.) But... you sure pay a good premium for the luxury ships.

 

One possible issue - is the dining room and staff configuration going to be able to handle it? My understanding is that the reason Crystal can't offer the more upscale "open dining" option the other luxury lines market is that their dining rooms are too small to be able to accomodate all the diners at one time or close to it.

 

But, I guess that's why it's a test. :)

 

I agree this works on Radisson and open seating on luxury ships is different than PC on Princess and Free Style on NCL.

 

I just can't see it working on Hal. I still think it will be a mob scene at 7:30 followed by an even angrier mob that can't be accomodated.

 

The staff is over worked as it is and I believe this is going to make things even worse.

 

Hal's ships were not designed for this.

 

My opinion remains the same. It is an idiotic idea. :eek:

[patval]

Hello!

 

I contacted Holland HQ yesterday morning and left a message for the Customer Relations Directgor to check the Cruise Critic Boards regarding the test of the Anytime Dining because many people are up in arms over this and hope this is a test and not a new item to be added.

 

Paul

[peaches from georgia]

I agree that 5:30 is a ridiculous time for a traditional seating, but since it appears from this first test that HAL is thinking of a traditional AND open seating plan, if the times of traditional were changed to 6 and 8 PM (one level having 2 traditional seatings) would that not solve most of the present complaints?

 

Might it not be worth having a wait-and-see attitude while transmitting concerns and suggestions to HAL before going into full panic mode? There are a heck of a lot of assumptions being made with no basis in fact at all and HAL is sending a rep to oversee how this first experiment works and to talk with pax about the pros and cons, so this is all a work-in-progress. ;)

 

Katwag-You're a voice of reason. It is a 'test', as you say, and there probably will be others.

[jhannah]

The fact that HAL is not providing full disclosure to their oncoming pax is unbelieveable to me. And it heaps coals of fire on the PR situation by not informing their own customer service agents about what's going on. The concept is one thing. The logistical mis-handling of it is entirely another. And it doesn't speak well for HAL, IMO.

[MBeamTX]

Well, this certainly has gotten people fired up. I am so grateful that we booked the Westerdam for next month instead of the Oosterdam.

 

The problem that I have with this whole "experiment" is that it's so ill-conceived. I wouldn't mind HAL adding some sort of open dining - IF they had the facilities for it, IF the staff were trained to handle the new process, and IF they were actually adding to the dining options instead of reallocating them. But none of those conditions are being met here, as far as I can tell.

 

The dining room is not big enough to handle what is likely to be the majority of people on board who are going to want to dine between 7:30 and 8 pm. Maybe HAL has noticed that 8 pm is generally the most popular seating time and 5:45 pm one of the least popular?

 

The dining room stewards (and the kitchen staff, for that matter) are going to have to implement a completely different process for open dining than they are used to for fixed seating. And they are going to have to work both systems every night! How smooth is that likely to be? (The organization I work for does process engineering, so I have some appreciation of what's involved here.)

 

By forcing all traditional diners into an absurd 5:30 pm slot, they are taking away options. That's not an enhancement.

 

I don't believe that HAL will allow people to reserve the same table for the same time every night under the "leisure dining" concept. That would just tie up all of the smaller (2/4/6) tables and make it that much more difficult to handle the "drop-in" traffic. In order to accommodate everyone, I think it will be done like lunch in the dining room, where people are awkwardly added to your table as they come in. Won't that be fun?

 

I don't go on vacation to stress about anything. I don't want to have to worry about how long the wait will be to get seated, and whether we'll be done in time to get to the show. I don't want to stand in one more damn line.

 

Dinner onboard a ship has always been so relaxed and civilized. I'm not going to eat at 5:30 pm to keep it that way.

 

Susan

[Iggipolka]

HARDLY.

I don't have a count of the number of nights I've eaten aboard dam ships, however I've eaten either alone or with just one other person at a table for 8 about 2 or 3 times. And I HATED it each and EVERY time. The thought of this happening EVERY night on a cruise is a deal-breaker for me. If this is what I have to look forward to, then my cruise experience is about to take a "turn for the worse." :(

 

This is exactly what I fear is going to happen for myself and for many solo cruisers. We are going to show up at the dining room at 7:30 or so and then either get seated by ourselves or feel like we're imposing on someone else to sit with them. I don't want to have to deal with either of those situations!

 

It's also a huge bummer to dress up on formal nights, only to end up eating by myself in my gown. <sarcasm> Yippi </sarcasm>

 

I really really hate this idea.

[Iggipolka]

Hello!

 

I contacted Holland HQ yesterday morning and left a message for the Customer Relations Directgor to check the Cruise Critic Boards regarding the test of the Anytime Dining because many people are up in arms over this and hope this is a test and not a new item to be added.

 

Paul

 

Woo! Good going Paul. I still think that someone should print this whole thread out and mail it to HAL.

[Iggipolka]

 

I don't go on vacation to stress about anything. I don't want to have to worry about how long the wait will be to get seated, and whether we'll be done in time to get to the show. I don't want to stand in one more damn line.

Susan

 

Good points Susan

 

I also wonder how they are going to work the show schedule. Are they still going to have an early show and a late show? There's so many logistics to work out and I'm furious at HAL for not discussing their "test" with pax before hand!

[RuthC]

Iggi, you bring up another good point about the logistics of attendant activities. I've been wondering how this will impact the pre-dinner cocktail/dancing time.

As it is now there is a brief period before the upper dinner for cocktails/dancing, and the music in some lounges extends beyond the start of upper dinner. I've seen too many times that people are enjoying themselves in the lounges and stay to the end, then stroll in to the dining room late. They really should be at the lower dining room.

Now, with this new set-up will cocktail time start at 4:30? Please. I'm going for my late-afternoon ice cream then!

And how will they arrange the cocktail sets for the "leisure dining"? Will it start at 6:30 in all the lounges and end ??? You can be darned sure that there will be many who will dance until the music stops, then head to the dining room at the same time.

Or will that, too, be a thing of the past?

The more I read this, and think about it, the more I wonder what will there be to HAL to make me want to come back time and time again? After all, if I can get the same thing on Princess, NCL, or other lines why shouldn't I sail other lines?

confidential to ronjud: I caught that. :) My late husband was from the Valley.

[LoveLifeAtSea]

I agree that 5:30 is a ridiculous time for a traditional seating, but since it appears from this first test that HAL is thinking of a traditional AND open seating plan, if the times of traditional were changed to 6 and 8 PM (one level having 2 traditional seatings) would that not solve most of the present complaints?

 

I agree with you on this issue Peaches.

 

IF they were to continue offering 2 traditional seatings, such as those that you mentioned, I would be very satisfied. As I posted earlier, I have no objection to Leisurely Dining, I just don't want to have to give up what I enjoy. I think IF we are understanding correctly what HAL intends to do on the Oosterdam, it appears quite obvious that they need to do some quick adjusting to give this test a true trial to see if it is feasible, while at the same time keeping everyone happy.

 

And, who knows? I might want to consider Leisure Dining at some point in my future. I just think HAL needs to give this whole experiment a lot of consideration.

 

I do think the biggest mistake HAL has made up until this point was not notifying the current passengers of this experiment and having options available to them if they were not satisfied with the turn of events. It really is unfair since so many of us pick and choose our cruises carefully, with dining being a major factor.