Drink tax

[kimmy624]

Anyone know if there is a tax in the Mexico ports?

[welshman71]

NCL would only have been able to send out information prior to the cruise if they were aware themselves.

 

This seems to be an ongoing area of confusion, and I'm not convinced that NCL have got to grips with it.

 

That isn't an excuse of course. A company like NCL should know these things and implement them correctly. All I am saying is that it isn't necessarily something that could have been eased by notifying people beforehand. It wouldn't have surprised me if NCL themselves didn't even know what they were doing until very late on.

 

 

Then at least a letter in the cabin to notify the passengers instead of a hard to read clear as mud letter posted at the bars that the bartenders didn't even understand.

 

 

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[hawkeyetlse]

Currently on the Jade TA that left from Barcelona on Sunday. 10% VAT on all UBP orders when in Spanish waters (Barcelona, Cartagena, Málaga). The bar staff and restaurant staff warned people a lot, but there was no slip to sign, so the charge just appears on your account. And there was no indication when they would stop collecting tax (the casino and shops opened up pretty much right after sailaway, and they were still collecting tax on drinks for a few hours after that).

 

Anyway we are in the Atlantic now, so hopefully out of the reach of the Spanish tax authorities! Everyone will be taking full advantage of the first 25-hour tax-free sea day tomorrow :p

[Justaddvodka68]

We are on the Malta and Greek Star cruise at the moment. We are being taxed 10 % on every drink we get on the promotion free beverage package. There is a lot of bad feelings on board and many people will never sail NCL again.

The official line is that because we sailed from Barcelona and all ports visited are in Europe then a Spanish 10% tax applies to every purchase or non purchase as the case may be. Needless to say the shops are not doing much trade either.

 

Denise

 

While I agree that this really sucks when you weren't aware going in that it would be this way. However, I can't imagine letting this ruin my cruise. You'd have to drink $1,000 worth of drinks for this to even equal $100.

 

Come on people! Enjoy your cruise!

[laslomas]

I am still trying to get my head around this matter after my recent Jade cruise. I did not buy the drinks, so I do not see why I should be asked to pay the tax on the drinks that were given to me as a gift. Whether we are informed about this or not it still cannot be right.

 

The final invoice does not even show the drinks that were supposedly 'purchased' but the tax is shown as a charge. How can a tax be raised on a nil item? :confused:

[esm54687]

I am still trying to get my head around this matter after my recent Jade cruise. I did not buy the drinks, so I do not see why I should be asked to pay the tax on the drinks that were given to me as a gift. Whether we are informed about this or not it still cannot be right.

 

The final invoice does not even show the drinks that were supposedly 'purchased' but the tax is shown as a charge. How can a tax be raised on a nil item? :confused:

I'm in the US so VAT is a different animal for me but......

 

could it be that the person who provided you the "gift" was charged VAT to get it to a certain point and then when you completed the product's destination (by ordering it) you became responsible for that last part of the VAT?

 

I may be way off but it logically makes sense....

 

 

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[hawkeyetlse]

I am still trying to get my head around this matter after my recent Jade cruise. I did not buy the drinks, so I do not see why I should be asked to pay the tax on the drinks that were given to me as a gift. Whether we are informed about this or not it still cannot be right.

deniseatnycs posted an update in another thread. She contacted NCL and apparently they have admitted that it was not right to collect this tax. I suggest you get in touch with them, too, and hopefully they will understand that they need to be much more transparent about this going forward.

[nomad098]

It makes me laugh:eek:

 

It took me 1 minute to find the EU Directive which allows Spain to charge VAT on a closed EU cruise round trip or point to point.

 

It took me another minute to find out that on UK promotions freebie that the amount of VAT that could be charged on said promotion can be used to offset the companies tax bill in the UK.

 

You can only legally charge VAT once as per the EU Directive so either they loose the 20% tax relief in the UK on the free promo or pay the Spanish 10% on every drink.

 

Which one do you think they chose?:D

 

If I can figure this out in about 2 minutes how bad are the NCL accountants and tax advisers :eek:

[deniseatnycs]

Re Hawkeyetize post above

We sailed on the 12th to October cruise embarking Barcelona, calling at Malta and the Greek Isles before disembarking at Rome on the 23rd.

 

The Cruise was fabulous, could not find a thing to fault it and the "Spanish Tax' in no way spoilt our experience. There was some bad feeling amongst mainly U.K. passengers in receipt of the UBP promotion, about this tax and I admit I too was curious has to how this had come about, a tax on something given free?

A email to NCL just asking for the reasoning behind it, received a quick and, in my opinion, reasonable answer, as below and also a refund. Cant complain about that.

 

.......As we’ve been contacted by several guests, we have reviewed thoroughly what happened and we have received feedback from our head Office as well as from the colleagues onboard confirming the mistake. This sailing has been considered an intra EU sailing starting and ending within the EU and only touching EU ports of call. For such sailings the respective national VAT is applicable, but only for purchase sales - so e.g. if guests for example didn’t have a drinks package either pre-paid or complimentary and pay per drink, then these costs were subject to Spanish VAT for the whole duration of the cruise. By mistake also guests with included drinks packages were charged with the Spanish VAT, which shouldn’t have happened. We realized that indeed there has been misleading and incorrect communication onboard and you can be assured that different steps were taken in the meantime to avoid similar issues on future sailings. We already received feedback that a proper debriefing of the situation has been conducted. We fully appreciate the frustration this situation during the cruise caused and we sincerely apologize for this highly negative Impression.........

 

Denise

[hawkeyetlse]

If I can figure this out in about 2 minutes how bad are the NCL accountants and tax advisers :eek:

Are you saying that the explanations that they gave to deniseatnycs were false, and that they can legally choose to collect Spanish VAT on non-purchase drink orders? And did you look up the relevant Spanish tax laws to see if they even allow taxes to be collected in such a situation?

 

It's important to keep in mind that not all drink packages are given away as freebies (some people purchase the beverage packages), and that people book from all over the world, not just the UK or EU. So there may in fact be different tax requirements for different passengers on the same sailing.

 

I'm not saying that NCL has everything right (they're not even saying that themselves). But it's ludicrous to believe that 2 minutes with Google is enough to "figure this out".

[nomad098]

Are you saying that the explanations that they gave to deniseatnycs were false, and that they can legally choose to collect Spanish VAT on non-purchase drink orders? And did you look up the relevant Spanish tax laws to see if they even allow taxes to be collected in such a situation?

 

It's important to keep in mind that not all drink packages are given away as freebies (some people purchase the beverage packages), and that people book from all over the world, not just the UK or EU. So there may in fact be different tax requirements for different passengers on the same sailing.

 

I'm not saying that NCL has everything right (they're not even saying that themselves). But it's ludicrous to believe that 2 minutes with Google is enough to "figure this out".

 

If you read deniseatnycs reply above you will see NCL agree with me.

 

Purchases made onboard subject to VAT of prevalent country on closed EU cruises (round trip or point to point)

 

Pre purchased items like beverage packages are subject to the tax rules of the country they are purchased in. Pre purchased items bought outside the EU are not subject to EU VAT

 

It's not exactly rocket science and the UK Government and EU Directive give plenty of examples on how the system works.

 

e.g.

 

I purchase a meal in Paris whilst on holiday it is subject to French VAT no matter where I come from in the world. If the meal is expensive enough then non EU citizens can then claim the VAT back when they leave.

 

I purchase a holiday in Paris in a travel agency in Germany it is subject to German VAT.

 

I am given a free drinks package for a cruise purchased in the UK, the whole purchase falls under UK VAT rules. Which means the VAT that would have been due on the free package if I had paid for it can be offset against NCL corparate tax bill in the UK

 

I pre purchase outside of the EU then VAT does not apply to purchase.

 

I would not expect the average joe to wrap their heads around this in 2 minutes but I would expect NCL tax and legal advisors to be on top of local tax rules in the markets in which they operate.

[KeithJenner]

I would not expect the average joe to wrap their heads around this in 2 minutes but I would expect NCL tax and legal advisors to be on top of local tax rules in the markets in which they operate.

 

 

 

And the evidence does tend to suggest that they are on top of those rules.

 

The point which is constantly being missed on this discussion is that NCL deal with these rules (correctly from my understanding) on a weekly basis during the summer. The Epic does many round trips which don't leave the VAT area and NCL charges tax for those people who are purchasing their drinks, but not those who have the deal. They do charge tax on other purchases as necessary. There are also cruises on the Jade that are the same.

 

However, the Star hasn't done one of these for many years, if ever. It has spent the past few years in the Baltics, Norway and then heading back to the US.

 

The most likely reason for this happening was that, for this cruise, the message was communicated to the ship about the tax rules, but was either incomplete or was interpreted incorrectly, so that the person setting things up (whether in Miami or onboard) did that bit wrong.

 

There is a fair chance that NCLs tax or legal advisors never got involved at all. It looks like an admin error (which NCL are specialists in) to me.

Edited November 25, 2016 by KeithJenner

[nomad098]

Sorry duplicate post

Edited November 25, 2016 by nomad098

[SteveH2508]

<snip>

 

I purchase a meal in Paris whilst on holiday it is subject to French VAT no matter where I come from in the world. If the meal is expensive enough then non EU citizens can then claim the VAT back when they leave.

 

<snip>

 

For information - this is incorrect. You will not be able to reclaim VAT on any consumable (food, drink, hotel etc.) or service. It can only be reclaimed on goods over a certain value which are being taken out of the EU (amount is over about 90 Euros from memory)

Edited November 25, 2016 by SteveH2508

[hawkeyetlse]

The point which is constantly being missed on this discussion is that NCL deal with these rules (correctly from my understanding) on a weekly basis during the summer. The Epic does many round trips which don't leave the VAT area and NCL charges tax for those people who are purchasing their drinks, but not those who have the deal. They do charge tax on other purchases as necessary. There are also cruises on the Jade that are the same.

You must be right about the Epic, otherwise we would have been hearing complaints about this on a weekly basis all summer long. However there was one report earlier in this thread (from poster Jldevlin) suggesting that there was Spanish tax on UBP orders on the Spirit in September, which cruises regularly out of Barcelona just as the Epic did.

 

And since you mentioned the Jade, Spanish tax was collected on UBP orders during the first part of the recent TA out of Barcelona, too. And we had Florida sales tax on UBP orders once we reached Miami and Tampa…

 

You may be right that this is an administrative error primarily affecting one-off sailings, but errors involving taxes (and affecting thousands of customers at a time) are not to be taken lightly. Particularly for those passengers who purchase the UBP or soda package themselves in the UK/EU: The purchase price includes VAT (or at least it should; whether NCL hands over this money is anyone's guess), so collecting EU VAT tax a second time on board cannot be right. And yet it keeps happening.

[KeithJenner]

Absolutely correct that it shouldn't happen. NCL really are dismal at this sort of thing.

 

My point was just that they do actually appear to know the rules. It's implementing them that seems to be the problem.

 

I'm not defending NCL at all. There really is no excuse for it. I was just responding to the post saying that the rules should be easy to understand. I just don't believe that is the problem.

Edited November 25, 2016 by KeithJenner

[nomad098]

For information - this is incorrect. You will not be able to reclaim VAT on any consumable (food, drink, hotel etc.) or service. It can only be reclaimed on goods over a certain value which are being taken out of the EU (amount is over about 90 Euros from memory)

 

You are correct sorry for the misinformation, I got confused by with what some of the lads where telling me about troops from US and Canada that where collecting all their pay as you dine meal receipts whilst out in France last year. Our local Admin Officer explained to me Corporate bodies and Government agencies can claim back some of the VAT but not all. Individuals cannot claim for consumables and services.

[SteveH2508]

You are correct sorry for the misinformation, I got confused by with what some of the lads where telling me about troops from US and Canada that where collecting all their pay as you dine meal receipts whilst out in France last year. Our local Admin Officer explained to me Corporate bodies and Government agencies can claim back some of the VAT but not all. Individuals cannot claim for consumables and services.

 

Oh Joy! AF 1771, meal receipts etc.. - now that is a blast from my past!:eek: