Gratuities

[NLH Arizona]

 

No, I think you have a tinfoil hat issue here. Perhaps when they tell you what they're doing with the DSC, they're NOT lying. Have you ever considered that?

 

 

 

Stephen

 

 

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Here is what I don't understand. Folks are upset that NCL would take the DSC to pay the crew, but many wouldn't have an issue if NCL included it in the fare and then take it and pay the crew. Am I the only one who sees how the two are the exactly the same!!!!

 

I've read many folks opinions (yes, they are opinions, not facts) and there are folks on both sides of the issue. When you see parents of crew members post and say their children receive $'s from the DSC and then you see passengers who say their crew member friends say they don't get any of the DSC and then other passengers who say they know crew members and they do get a portion of the DSC, I know who I would put my money on.

 

Now, do I think that all crew members will receive their base salary (which is very low) not matter if there is any money collected by the DSC, yes. Do I think that those crew members would receive additional dollars based on the dollars collected from the DSC, yes. Unless the crew members think totally different than the rest of the working world, I'm sure they want to make more than their low base salary. But for those that don't think they want to make more, feel free to remove the DSC if it makes you feel better to keep those dollars in your wallet.

 

I'd also put my money on the industry insiders who know what is really happening:

 

Gratuites are a major part of a cruise ship worker's income. They are paid by passengers in addition to ticket fares and other on-board costs and help to supplement worker pay, sometimes even exceeding it altogether. Most cruise lines assess a recommended amount per day, per passenger onto each traveler's on-board account. This fee is placed into a pool and divided among the staff.

[luvtheships]

So according to your "facts", which I believe are fictional:

 

 

 

 

 

- NCL dictates the expected amount of money it wants to collect from you.

 

 

 

- NCL gives you the right to request some of it back, with no explanation.

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder why they would allow you to reclaim this DSC component of your cruise cost, but not....say.... the cost of your last glass of wine, or the cruise fare.

 

 

 

Heck, I'd go to Guest Services, and request a form, AND happily wait 12 weeks, if I could get my cruise fare back.

 

 

 

 

 

No, I think you have a tinfoil hat issue here. Perhaps when they tell you what they're doing with the DSC, they're NOT lying. Have you ever considered that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stephen

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

Tax implications.

 

 

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[nyfltraveler]

Yes

 

 

Because they are getting the same paycheck regardless of my dsc. I think that has been confirmed several times already

 

 

My dsc apparently goes to help ncl pay the crew their contractual rate. Which they have to get regardless of my dsc being removed or not

 

 

 

 

I'll give him $20 or $30 extra and he will still get his regular check plus some cash and the waiter $5 per table.

 

 

These crew members sign a contract. They get the same week in and week out. The only extra they see is cash pax hand them

 

 

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How many night cruise and how many people in a cabin for $20-30?

 

Waiter, how many people at the table for $5?

 

Just curious.

[Crusin6]

How many night cruise and how many people in a cabin for $20-30?

 

 

 

Waiter, how many people at the table for $5?

 

 

 

Just curious.

 

 

$20/$30 per cabin per week

 

 

At ncl we eat as a family so $5 per table

 

 

Crew gets the same salary anyway so my cash is the extra for them

 

 

Ncl says there is no need to tip so I'm going with what they say plus my above

 

 

 

 

 

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[nyfltraveler]

$20/$30 per cabin per week

 

 

At ncl we eat as a family so $5 per table

 

 

Crew gets the same salary anyway so my cash is the extra for them

 

 

Ncl says there is no need to tip so I'm going with what they say plus my above

 

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How many people in the cabin? 2 adults? 2 adults 2 kids, 3 adults, etc?? How many night cruise are we talking about? 3, 5, 7, 10 etc?

 

How many people at the dinner table? Again all adults? Adults and kids? Etc...

[macandlucy]

Here is what I don't understand. Folks are upset that NCL would take the DSC to pay the crew, but many wouldn't have an issue if NCL included it in the fare and then take it and pay the crew. Am I the only one who sees how the two are the exactly the same!!!!

 

It would be exactly the same if they were mandatory. But since some people remove their tips, or have them refunded, it isn't. I do wonder what percentage of passengers do this. Is it so high that the rest of us are subsidizing those who opt out? I have no idea -- wish I knew.

 

I just wish they were mandatory, unremovable, worked into the cruise fare, so we all pay the same. But then I wished for a pet chimp for about two thirds of my childhood and didn't get that either, so..

[luvtheships]

I'm considering reducing my dsc by the exact amount that Ncl charges me for a case of water

 

Now if they charged reasonable rates for water or let me bring it on that would be a different story

 

Ncl broke the camels back with the water thing and we never brought it on before but due to health issues this next cruise bottled water is a must

 

 

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[NLH Arizona]

It would be exactly the same if they were mandatory. But since some people remove their tips, or have them refunded, it isn't. I do wonder what percentage of passengers do this. Is it so high that the rest of us are subsidizing those who opt out? I have no idea -- wish I knew.

 

I just wish they were mandatory, unremovable, worked into the cruise fare, so we all pay the same. But then I wished for a pet chimp for about two thirds of my childhood and didn't get that either, so..

My point was that some say they won't pay the DSC because it goes to NCL to pay the crew, but they wouldn't have an issue if it were in the fare and still went to NCL to pay the crew. Hello, in both scenarios, NCL would be taking the money and paying the crew. I think some just try to come up with excuses not to pay the DSC.

 

Someone posted that their child worked on one of the ships that sailed out of Europe and the child told her that a large majority refused to pay the DSC and how disappointed the crew was, because they worked so hard to please these folks and then the passengers turned around and stiffed them.

 

I would like it to be mandatory as well and for me I always wanted a dolphin, as Flipper was one of my favorite shows.

[pokerpro5]

Someone posted that their child worked on one of the ships that sailed out of Europe and the child told her that a large majority refused to pay the DSC and how disappointed the crew was, because they worked so hard to please these folks and then the passengers turned around and stiffed them.

 

This person's child didn't understand the DSC, then.

 

It does not affect crew pay.

 

The only way it can affect crew pay is if a specific reason is given for DSC removal that blames a certain individual.

 

For example, if you remove the DSC and say it's because your steward was horrible, then they do have the right to deduct money from the portion of the steward's pay earmarked as "tips".

 

But this can only occur if a specific employee is named. If a general reason is given for removal, then nobody's pay is docked.

 

I also have a hard time believing that a "majority of passengers" removed it, even if they make it easier to remove when sailing from Europe. For the most part, people are passive and non-confrontational. If it takes any kind of effort to remove a service charge, most either are not aware of how to do so, or are afraid/too guilty to do it. I would be shocked if on any sailing more than 50% of the passengers removed the DSC.

 

FYI I saw the log of people removing the DSC (or at least getting the form to do so) on my Dawn cruise last year. It was fewer than 25 cabins.

[SaintedMother]

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[NLH Arizona]

This person's child didn't understand the DSC, then.

 

It does not affect crew pay.

 

That is your opinion, but it doesn't make it factual. Edited September 3, 2016 by NLH Arizona

[suesings]

This person's child didn't understand the DSC, then.

 

It does not affect crew pay.

 

The only way it can affect crew pay is if a specific reason is given for DSC removal that blames a certain individual.

 

For example, if you remove the DSC and say it's because your steward was horrible, then they do have the right to deduct money from the portion of the steward's pay earmarked as "tips".

 

But this can only occur if a specific employee is named. If a general reason is given for removal, then nobody's pay is docked.

 

I also have a hard time believing that a "majority of passengers" removed it, even if they make it easier to remove when sailing from Europe. For the most part, people are passive and non-confrontational. If it takes any kind of effort to remove a service charge, most either are not aware of how to do so, or are afraid/too guilty to do it. I would be shocked if on any sailing more than 50% of the passengers removed the DSC.

 

FYI I saw the log of people removing the DSC (or at least getting the form to do so) on my Dawn cruise last year. It was fewer than 25 cabins.

 

50%?? That is huge. I figured maybe we were talking about maybe cheapskates.

[suesings]

I think some just try to come up with excuses not to pay the DSC.

 

 

Agreed!

[hamrag]

.....who tips less than 20% in the real world anyway?....

 

The answer is about 95% of the world population as North America represents only about 5% of world population!!

 

There appears, in some minds, to be a myth that Brits do not tip. Most restaurants have a 10%-12.5% service charge automatically added, and we would always tip at least 10% (dependant upon quality of service) where not. We always tip approximately 10% for a taxi (cab) fare. These are but two examples where tipping is widely practised in our part of the UK.

 

Do I think 18%-20% is extortionate....yes, but in the USA we go with the local custom and generally pay it (unless service is really poor, when we would go with 10%-12.5%). My experience is that USA service is generally mediocre, neither poor or excellent, but we go with the flow.

 

On the ship we are very happy to pay on-board gratuities, and do so, but there is no doubt in my mind that service levels have declined since the advent of auto-grats.....that applies to all mass cruiselines, not only NCL. Cruising remains our preferred vacation type, so we understand and accept the business model and increasing number of additional charge items....if we want them, we pay, if we don't we accept the "base" plus product offered.

[sjbdtz]

In regards to my earlier comment:

 

 

When there is a promo, I would expect that NCL contributes into the sharing pool, out the higher prices which tend to be attributed to promo-time. Really, all they're doing in a promo is auto-including the DSC so it's not removable at all -

 

 

 

If the DSC IS being removed frequently, then it is costing NCL less that the $15.50 or $12.95 or whatever it actually is right now, to contribute....because all they have to do is make up the NET pool, not the GROSS pool.

 

So the more people who have been removing DSC, the less it is costing NCL to run the 'free gratuities' promo - while at the same time they manage to reduce the number of people removing DSC because it's included as a promo.

 

 

Stephen

 

.

[pcakes122]

Whenever the gratuity debate comes up, invariably there are references to the "poor" underpaid crew who are practically indentured servants forced to work away from their families in order to keep their families from poverty. While I am sure there are some crew members that do struggle financially, I don't believe that is the norm.

 

My sister and brother-in-law worked on NCL ships for six years (actually, my brother-in-law worked there longer.) Granted, they were not room stewards or waiters - my sister first worked in Guest Services and then later as a dealer in the casino. My Norwegian brother-in-law was on staff (but not the captain or anyone in high authority.) They made a FORTUNE working on the ships. They had practically ZERO expenses except for their monthly crew bar tab (and alcohol for the crew is dirt cheap!) They traveled the world with NCL, all the while banking all their money. When they signed off the ships for good, they first spent 4 months visiting my brother-in-law's family in Norway combined with an extended stay in the Greek islands. PAID CASH. Then, they came back to the states and bought a 5-bedroom house in Orlando and a new car CASH. They furnished their home with gorgeous Waterford crystal and Lenox china they purchased in the islands duty free. (Not to mention my sister's gorgeous duty-free engagement and wedding diamond rings.)

 

Working on the ships provided them a fabulous life experience as well as a fantastic financial start. I'm sure there was bad/hectic days where they hated their jobs (as we all have!), but overall it was far from indentured slavery.

 

I mention this because I was just reading some crew reviews of their NCL jobs on glassdoor dot com. Many crew members (including stewards, waiters and bartenders) are saying the same things (great travel and opportunity to save money!) Interesting side note - the most DISSATISFIED NCL workers are the PCCs on land! They cite terrible working conditions where they are paid low wages and forced to fight over "leads", etc.

[fshagan]

There appears' date=' in some minds, to be a myth that Brits do not tip. Most restaurants have a 10%-12.5% service charge automatically added, and we would always tip at least 10% (dependant upon quality of service) where not. We always tip approximately 10% for a taxi (cab) fare. These are but two examples where tipping is widely practised in our part of the UK.

[/quote']

 

We only know what the Brits tell us on here. Thanks for another perspective. Now I have to figure out which Brits are not telling the complete truth (I suspect it's the cheapskates who keep telling us they don't tip because everyone earns a living wage in Britain).

[fshagan]

I mention this because I was just reading some crew reviews of their NCL jobs on glassdoor dot com. Many crew members (including stewards' date=' waiters and bartenders) are saying the same things (great travel and opportunity to save money!) Interesting side note - the most DISSATISFIED NCL workers are the PCCs on land! They cite terrible working conditions where they are paid low wages and forced to fight over "leads", etc.[/quote']

 

It is eye-opening to read the salary and reviews on glassdoor.com for all the cruise lines. Like all reviews, you have to read between the lines, but cruise ship personnel are paid pretty well if you consider their home country's wages.

 

Because NCL has a lot of Filipinos I looked up tax rates and average annual income in the Philippines and compared it to a room steward's reported wages on glassdoor.com. I know why they keep signing up for the work. It is hard, with long hours, but they are earning more than 80% of their countrymen.

 

This is all readily available information anyone can check. Look at self-reported crew wages on glassdoor.com and then compare that to wages in their home countries.

 

I'm actually very glad I undertook that exercise because I was concerned about the morality of cruising if the workers were indeed being exploited. They aren't.

[pcakes122]

I'm actually very glad I undertook that exercise because I was concerned about the morality of cruising if the workers were indeed being exploited. They aren't.

I totally agree. Also, I read MANY reviews and didn't come across a single person complaining about being "stiffed" by lack of passenger tips - or complaints about the NCL DSC policy! ;)

 

And while I absolutely believe in adding cash tips to the DSC for exemplary service, I think the general outcry of "what kind of horrible person doesn't give additional cash tips to these poor, overworked and exploited crew members" comes from folks that are making assumptions about things they really don't know anything about.

[Cruiser Who Knows Nothing]

I've never tipped at a hotel and never will either. Tipping has gotten out of hand IMHO.

 

 

I'm violating my "read the whole thread before posting" rule. are you telling me that you do not tip the housekeepers at a hotel? Please tell me that I'm reading this out of context. If not....really?? You check out of a hotel and leave nothing to housekeeping. That's just sad.

 

 

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[ColeThornton]

I'm violating my "read the whole thread before posting" rule. are you telling me that you do not tip the housekeepers at a hotel? Please tell me that I'm reading this out of context. If not....really?? You check out of a hotel and leave nothing to housekeeping. That's just sad.

 

 

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Why is it sad? A clean room should be expected as part of the cost of the room. They aren't giving you a personalized service. I've had this conversation with friends before and very few left anything for housekeeping and I consider them, like myself, good tippers.

 

To each their own.

[Sissaaaaaa]

I'm violating my "read the whole thread before posting" rule. are you telling me that you do not tip the housekeepers at a hotel? Please tell me that I'm reading this out of context. If not....really?? You check out of a hotel and leave nothing to housekeeping. That's just sad.

 

 

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Why is that sad? Are they not paid a wage for their position? Unless I am requesting something, I do not tip housekeeping staff at a hotel either.

[Sissaaaaaa]

Why is it sad? A clean room should be expected as part of the cost of the room. They aren't giving you a personalized service. I've had this conversation with friends before and very few left anything for housekeeping and I consider them, like myself, good tippers.

 

To each their own.

 

Agreed 100%. The whole tipping nonsense is getting way out of hand. We are very good tippers, but I draw the line at tipping people for doing their expected job.

[Sissaaaaaa]

It is eye-opening to read the salary and reviews on glassdoor.com for all the cruise lines. Like all reviews, you have to read between the lines, but cruise ship personnel are paid pretty well if you consider their home country's wages.

 

Because NCL has a lot of Filipinos I looked up tax rates and average annual income in the Philippines and compared it to a room steward's reported wages on glassdoor.com. I know why they keep signing up for the work. It is hard, with long hours, but they are earning more than 80% of their countrymen.

 

This is all readily available information anyone can check. Look at self-reported crew wages on glassdoor.com and then compare that to wages in their home countries.

 

I'm actually very glad I undertook that exercise because I was concerned about the morality of cruising if the workers were indeed being exploited. They aren't.

 

They are paid very well. I do not buy into the "slave labor" mentality either.

[macandlucy]

Agreed 100%. The whole tipping nonsense is getting way out of hand. We are very good tippers, but I draw the line at tipping people for doing their expected job.

 

I hear what you are saying, but do you tip your room steward (via DSC)?

 

I always tip the hotel maids because I think their work is the hardest--much more difficult than the waiter who brings me a cheeseburger and Coke Zero, and then gets 20% for that. (I'm Canadian -- wait staff here get paid at least minimum wage by law and I still tip 20%).

 

Tipping practices in general seem kind of arbitrary -- why not tip the gas station attendant who is in the weather all the time, smelling gas fumes? But, nope, nothing for him. Yet the dude who literally takes three to five seconds to take the cap off a beer gets at least a buck for that. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.