P&O response to questions about gratuities.

[terrierjohn]

As I expected this thread has still not led to the clarity a lot of posters want.

 

Like Grapau27 and Insane magnet I cannot get my head round the claim that cash tips can be retained by staff, EVEN when these are from passengers who have removed the auto tip, leading to a double tip for those staff members. It is possible that P&O believe or even know that this is only a very tiny percentage of those removing the auto tip, and therefore not worth bothering about.

 

They also did not clarify if the entire tip pool was paid out, or some retained by P&O, neither did they clarify if P&O made up the entire or part of any auto tip shortfall. I had always assumed the whole pot would be paid out to staff, but now I am no longer as certain.

 

The fact they did respond and the promptness is heartening, but I am almost as confused as I was before.

[tartanexile81]

He told us and our friends because he was very very upset - as you can imagine. I have always been an advocate of auto-gratuities and giving extra for special service but no more. However I'm 100% behind the concept of tipping the crew so will not be tipping less than we've done in the past but it will all be in cash so we make sure the people who have served us well get what they deserve from us.

[Florry]

I was told by a friend that crew get sent home and contracts are not renewed if they discuss tipping with passengers. I don't know if it is true, but perhaps worth bearing in mind if you enter into discussions with P&O....

 

 

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[terrierjohn]

I was told by a friend that crew get sent home and contracts are not renewed if they discuss tipping with passengers. I don't know if it is true, but perhaps worth bearing in mind if you enter into discussions with P&O....

 

 

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Florry maybe you could ask P&O to comment on that claim.

[grapau27]

He told us and our friends because he was very very upset - as you can imagine. I have always been an advocate of auto-gratuities and giving extra for special service but no more. However I'm 100% behind the concept of tipping the crew so will not be tipping less than we've done in the past but it will all be in cash so we make sure the people who have served us well get what they deserve from us.

My sentiments exactly the crew deserve respect for the hours they work i always tip auto and extra and i expect it to go to people who look after us.

 

Love RCCL and P&O.

[grapau27]

I was told by a friend that crew get sent home and contracts are not renewed if they discuss tipping with passengers. I don't know if it is true, but perhaps worth bearing in mind if you enter into discussions with P&O....

 

 

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That sounds suspicious lets hope former crew will post to get the right answers.

 

Love RCCL and P&O.

[insanemagnet]

To be honest P&O's behaviour looks like it is running a Victorian workhouse, and in comparison Mike Ashley is a saint.

 

Deliberately underpaying your staff and hoping customers make up the difference (if they don't, no problem as it is the staff that suffer not the directors).

 

And the icing on the cake is persuading the customer not to hand over cash to the underpaid employee, but giving it to P&O who can hand it out however they fancy.

 

Nice.

[daiB]

To be honest P&O's behaviour looks like it is running a Victorian workhouse, and in comparison Mike Ashley is a saint.

 

Deliberately underpaying your staff and hoping customers make up the difference (if they don't, no problem as it is the staff that suffer not the directors).

 

And the icing on the cake is persuading the customer not to hand over cash to the underpaid employee, but giving it to P&O who can hand it out however they fancy.

 

Nice.

 

 

You do like to have a go at P&O. When all the other cruise lines do exactly the same. Apart from the ones who have no tipping.

 

Stop the tips and put the fares up.

 

Simple

 

Until then pay the tips either with auto tips or by envelopes

.

 

It's quite simple.

 

 

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[daiB]

My sentiments exactly the crew deserve respect for the hours they work i always tip auto and extra and i expect it to go to people who look after us.

 

Love RCCL and P&O.

 

 

Exactly so either leave the auto tips, as we do. Or pay the people who serve you what you want.

 

But the people who get the tips are those who you would tip anyway.

 

You clearly have a better picture of at least two lines, does any one line do it better?

 

 

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[tartanexile81]

I was told by a friend that crew get sent home and contracts are not renewed if they discuss tipping with passengers. I don't know if it is true, but perhaps worth bearing in mind if you enter into discussions with P&O....Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

P&O don't know who I am thanks to the anonymity of this site but when I contacted P&O about this claim I was sufficiently circumspect. It took 3 emails before they actually answered my question. We enjoy cruising with P&O and will continue to do so but we will pay our tips differently in future.

[daiB]

There's a sticky about that in the Cunard forum which is possibly one reason why there's less discussion about tips, and certainly a lot less outright obsession with the subject, over there. http://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2413808

 

 

 

P&O isn't Cunard but it's not stretching the bounds of possibility that they might operate in the same way as they share a parent company. There'd be a serious risk of running foul of data protection law if the pursers were to share personal information about passengers with the hotel staff, but I suppose that won't stop the conspiracy theorists theorising away.

 

 

Well if you read the sticky on the Cunard page you will see it is essentially what John posted above in his reply from P&O

 

Lists are not posted and there is no pot so any tips given to staff in money stay with the staff.

 

As the two cruise lines are run from the same office and share staff and senior officers it is clear they have many of there systems and procedures the same.

 

As I have said if you do not like the auto tips then pay with an envelope.

 

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[tartanexile81]

Exactly so either leave the auto tips, as we do. Or pay the people who serve you what you want.

 

But the people who get the tips are those who you would tip anyway.

 

And that's what I thought Dai till our recent cruise. I want the people who serve me and who are the people I would tip anyway to get their full share of what I give. As I now know this didn't happen in the case of at least one individual, I am no longer prepared to let P&O decide on my behalf how much the people who serve me well will receive.

 

100% I will continue to tip these hard-working, amazing people

[daiB]

And that's what I thought Dai till our recent cruise. I want the people who serve me and who are the people I would tip anyway to get their full share of what I give. As I now know this didn't happen in the case of at least one individual, I am no longer prepared to let P&O decide on my behalf how much the people who serve me well will receive.

 

 

 

100% I will continue to tip these hard-working, amazing people

 

 

If you are happier with it that way then fine I have no problem with that at all as I am fairly confident you will tip those who have worked for you.

 

I shall continue with what I do and the staff will get an envelope as well as I still do not think the Auto tip is enough.

 

Most of my tips come from the OBC we have for each cruise. Which is one reason for not changing what I do, the other being I am too idle to do otherwise

 

 

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[grapau27]

To be honest P&O's behaviour looks like it is running a Victorian workhouse, and in comparison Mike Ashley is a saint.

 

Deliberately underpaying your staff and hoping customers make up the difference (if they don't, no problem as it is the staff that suffer not the directors).

 

And the icing on the cake is persuading the customer not to hand over cash to the underpaid employee, but giving it to P&O who can hand it out however they fancy.

 

Nice.

Well said.

 

Love RCCL and P&O.

[grapau27]

Exactly so either leave the auto tips, as we do. Or pay the people who serve you what you want.

 

But the people who get the tips are those who you would tip anyway.

 

You clearly have a better picture of at least two lines, does any one line do it better?

 

 

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Even though we prefer RC ships P&O currently require less service charge and don't put 18% on every drink with a space for additional tip.

 

Love RCCL and P&O.

[daiB]

Well said.

 

Love RCCL and P&O.

 

 

But only an opinion. And not fact.

That is the post you are commenting on.

 

And no different to any other cruise line as you know.

 

 

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[grapau27]

P&O don't know who I am thanks to the anonymity of this site but when I contacted P&O about this claim I was sufficiently circumspect. It took 3 emails before they actually answered my question. We enjoy cruising with P&O and will continue to do so but we will pay our tips differently in future.

If someone asks a realistic question and if they don't give a transparent answer you have to wonder if they are hiding anything.

To reiterate i pre-pay our tips when booking our cruise on RC and do autogratuity on P&O and always give extra but it is concerning that hardworking crew might not get what we think we are giving them.

 

Love RCCL and P&O.

[grapau27]

And that's what I thought Dai till our recent cruise. I want the people who serve me and who are the people I would tip anyway to get their full share of what I give. As I now know this didn't happen in the case of at least one individual, I am no longer prepared to let P&O decide on my behalf how much the people who serve me well will receive.

 

100% I will continue to tip these hard-working, amazing people

I agree totally.

 

Love RCCL and P&O.

[Florry]

It seems to me that those who don't believe in tipping remove the charge as per their prerogative, which I have no quibble with as it's a personal decision. We can argue the rights and wrongs forever, but all sides have valid reasons so we may as well just respect opinion.

Most of those who do tip in this discussion don't seem to be concerned with the amount so much as our desire to feel fully informed about the processes and feel that when we exercise the discretion to remove and pay independently that that is completely respected by P&O. There are some here including myself that don't have faith that this happens and suspect a fear culture exists, which does erode the trust and affinity we feel towards the company we like to holiday with - in this regard I would argue that most of us have more loyalty to the crew than we have for P&O itself or our own pocket.

I can see that P&O created a system to take control of tipping and I can understand their strategy and the reasons behind it. Their system really only works properly if passengers and crew conform, so it stands to reason they would flex their muscle to safeguard the process and try to put something in place to counteract removal of the auto charge - and why would they be transparent about it? Yes they do make statements but those who point out that there are degrees of interpretation involved are right, words are carefully chosen. If we all knew exactly how much of our tip went to the individuals who *actually* served us, after all the scoring and averaging happens to 'reward performance' we might all be removing it, a risk P&O can't take.

To be honest I feel that only P&O and their system can win, we can try to evade it but I'm not sure it benefits the crew, as it seems possible that tipping independently may put them in a situation where they may have to choose what to disclose and that quite possibly involves an element of risk to their jobs. When you think about it too much the whole thing feels wrong and distasteful.

Having said all this it's worth asking ourselves the question about whether the crew are better off now, than with the old system. In those days there were no guarantees what they would get, but it seems that under the new process they get a percentage according to their rating - so should we concern ourselves with where our tip goes or just be satisfied that the system is in place for the 'greater good of all'? I suspect P&O do 'top up' the pool to cover any shortfall. I also suspect that where average ratings fall below an 'excellent' then 'excess' collected from passengers also makes up the shortfall (which could be substantial if only an average rating of 'excellent' gets the full £6 tip, hence the concerns about those who auto-pay subsidise those who don't) Again P&O will never ever confirm this, if people knew this happened they would just stop tipping. Why do I think P&O make up the shortfall? Because they have created a performance related pay promise which must be met, and they can't have crew protesting on the dockside - which as you may recall was the catalyst for the change.

I don't usually participate in tipping threads, it's hugely frustrating because there are so many facets and assumptions to it (although these are educated).

Once we are all too old to cruise I guess new cruisers won't know much difference and these things won't be questioned to the same degree.

I don't disagree with what anyone says because it's all got credence but we just go around in ever decreasing circles.

Maybe the question we should be asking is whether the rating system is fair (and if there a viable alternative because I can't think of one) when it is not only subjective from a passenger perspective, but crew aren't really given enough time to clean properly because P&O need to keep prices down, so we benefit from cheaper holidays and rebook - more circles, ethics and synergies!

 

 

 

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Edited March 31, 2017 by Florry

[insanemagnet]

But only an opinion. And not fact.

 

For goodness sake!

 

What do you not believe?

 

Do you not believe P&O pay the waiters and stewards a substantially lower base pay because their remuneration is topped up by the service reward scheme, whereas the other crew receive a higher base pay as theirs isn't?

 

Do you not believe P&O determine the amounts paid out through the service reward scheme based on performance and feedback?

 

Do you not believe the waiters and stewards lose out if the amount in the service reward scheme is reduced by people not paying in?

 

Now you may be happy with this Victorian approach that would probably be illegal if it operated on land in the UK, but to deny that is the way P&O is operating is foolish.

 

As for other cruise lines, quite simply they do not hold themselves out as British, including Cunard as its base currency is US Dollars. The US service industry operates in a different way and it would be quite inappropriate to tell another country how they should behave.

 

However it is not unreasonable to expect a British company to have decent and honest employment practices, which the old fashioned 'tipping' system is not.

 

Obviously people could choose not to give P&O their custom, but that would be cutting of their nose, and instead they work with the unfair system making sure the staff don't lose out.

 

That doesn't mean they like it and can't criticise P&O for their shabby employment practices in the hope they see the light and change. And that is my opinion.

[grapau27]

You are saying what most people think.

 

Love RCCL and P&O.

[grapau27]

With regard to the cruise questionnaire i always give excellent because thats what i get.To safeguard the crew in the unlikely event they do something we don't like i would speak to the head waiter or Guest services to solve a problem rather than slag crew off on or not give excellent on the cruise review.

 

Love RCCL and P&O.

[grapau27]

You do like to have a go at P&O. When all the other cruise lines do exactly the same. Apart from the ones who have no tipping.

 

Stop the tips and put the fares up.

 

Simple

 

Until then pay the tips either with auto tips or by envelopes

.

 

It's quite simple.

 

 

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I wonder why most of the cabin stewards and waiters are Indian, Phillipino, Chinese or carribean and not English or American.

 

Love RCCL and P&O.

[grapau27]

Even though we prefer RC ships P&O currently require less service charge and don't put 18% on every drink with a space for additional tip.

 

Love RCCL and P&O.

And through our loyalty we get 7.5% discount after OBC is used up on anything we spend on in the ships bars restaurants and shops.

 

Love RCCL and P&O.

[terrierjohn]

With regard to the cruise questionnaire i always give excellent because thats what i get.To safeguard the crew in the unlikely event they do something we don't like i would speak to the head waiter or Guest services to solve a problem rather than slag crew off on or not give excellent on the cruise review.

 

Love RCCL and P&O.

I agree, but this can lead to skewed data, which P&O will be only too happy to use in their advertising.

I want to be honest in my reviews and having also sailed Celebrity I cannot bring myself to record the P&O service as excellent.

But this would possibly result in the staff not receiving a good slice of the tip pool.

Talk about being between a rock and a hard place.