Smoking Ban on Family Ships?

[zoe sproodle]

It's always struck me as odd that you can't smoke with kids in your car but it's perfectly OK to sit in traffic with the windows down surrounded by lorries, buses, 4x4s, etc

[molecrochip]

We were on Ventura at a sail away earlier this year. The deck was packed except for the smoking area. The ents manager was encouraging people into this area. They later apologised and confirmed to the audience that you should only move round to thus part of deck if you don’t mind smokers. The point here being there were no smokers present!

 

 

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[jake 26]

There is no scientific evidence that passive smoking affects those around smokers.

 

So that's OK then!!!!

[NoFlyGuy]

jake 26 - Yes it is, no evidence that smoking in the outside has any effect of others health so non smokers need to be a little less selfish and a little less antisocial trying to make me feel uncomfortable.

 

Returned on Oriana on Thursday and there were plenty of smokers out on 12 at the final sail away from Lisbon, myself included.

[Mrs Tinkywinky]

So that's OK then!!!!

Yes it is ok. Don't like the smoke then don't go near the smokers' area. As I said earlier , I have never smoked , don't particularly enjoy the smell but for goodness sake , one whiff of smoke on a sea going ship isn't going to harm anyone..

[NoFlyGuy]

Good on you Mrs Tinkywinky. A non smoker with a reasonable attitude. I only wish there were more like you.

[GolferT]

We had to laugh on our last cruise on Ventura, as smokers me and my partner were sat in the smokers designated area watching the sail away when another couple asked if we minded if they joined us at our table, we of course said no problem, our cigarettes were clear to see on the table and after a while I decided to light up and the look of disgust we got from the other couple was histericial.....I don’t understand what there problem was, they chose to come into a smoking area, sit on a table with obviaouly 2 smokers and then moan when we light up.........you just can’t win.

[balf]

There is no scientific evidence that passive smoking affects those around smokers. . It is rediculous to ban smokers who occupy a very small area of the ship. Children are subjected to worse fumes in the back of a car when people fill up with petrol.

Get a grip P and O. We are not allowed to enjoy ourselves.....we are after all on holiday. And no I don't smoke and never have.

 

This is not true, there are numerous scientific reports showing that passive smoke is hazardous. A quick search will bring up volumes if you are interested.

 

David

[jake 26]

jake 26 - Yes it is, no evidence that smoking in the outside has any effect of others health so non smokers need to be a little less selfish and a little less antisocial trying to make me feel uncomfortable.

 

I agree with you NoFlyGuy regarding smoking in the outside but the statement was that there is no evidence that passive smoking is harmful.

Balf is quite correct that there is lots of evidence to contradict that statement, and which is why we currently have such widespread restrictions on smoking in public spaces.

I personally do not have an issue with anyone smoking where they are permitted, and would hate to think I was making anyone feel uncomfortable because I don't smoke.

I do think, however, that smoking is, in general, a dying pastime and will eventually disappear.

[joro44]

Well, well, I opened this thread, not as pro or anti smoking, but to engender discussion as we move towards the next decade and welcome a NEW FAMILY SHIP to our fleet. As several respondents have stated, smoking is a dying habit. Statistical evidence points to the fact that the incidence of it within the younger generation is less than within the older one, and continues to decline year on year. A fact that the NHS's accountants and many would be patients with non-smoking acute illnesses welcome.

Mention has been made of a designated room in which to use tobacco products. This creates a ship design issue; not simply to select a venue, but how to ventilate it? The air-con 'exhaust' from this venue, must be located at the end of a 'run' into the surrounding fresh air. Otherwise it could contaminate the system. Further, consideration needs to be taken with regards to crew members, working or entering the venue, think about the discussions that took place concerning alcohol premises and the health of those employed therein.

I have stressed, family (children), the future, and new-build, hence decisions taken now will have effects in years to come.

 

I quote from a current P&O promotion:

WE ARE MACMILLAN : SUPPORT FOR CANCER

49 Cruises 17 Ships 3 Liners

[CCFC]

The air from the designated rooms on Princess goes through scrubbers before it is ventilated, I asked the question.

[Presto2]

Well, well, I opened this thread, not as pro or anti smoking, but to engender discussion as we move towards the next decade and welcome a NEW FAMILY SHIP to our fleet. As several respondents have stated, smoking is a dying habit. Statistical evidence points to the fact that the incidence of it within the younger generation is less than within the older one, and continues to decline year on year. A fact that the NHS's accountants and many would be patients with non-smoking acute illnesses welcome.

Mention has been made of a designated room in which to use tobacco products. This creates a ship design issue; not simply to select a venue, but how to ventilate it? The air-con 'exhaust' from this venue, must be located at the end of a 'run' into the surrounding fresh air. Otherwise it could contaminate the system. Further, consideration needs to be taken with regards to crew members, working or entering the venue, think about the discussions that took place concerning alcohol premises and the health of those employed therein.

I have stressed, family (children), the future, and new-build, hence decisions taken now will have effects in years to come.

 

I quote from a current P&O promotion:

WE ARE MACMILLAN : SUPPORT FOR CANCER

 

49 Cruises 17 Ships 3 Liners

 

On Ventura in August we were in D114 on port side (the non smoking side of the ship). It was a superior deluxe cabin right at the front and we had chosen it for those 2 reasons.

 

Sadly it is above a smoking vent that 'puffs out smoke' onto the promenade deck and we could often smell the smoke wafting up on to our balcony. Ugh. We originally thought that it was the person next to us have a crafty cigarette, but then discovered this large outlet vent (labelled 'smoking room flap') when walking around the promenade deck. W have a photograph if anyone thinks that we were mistaken.Looking back we should have complained, but we tend to just get on with things. Would NEVER book any of the cabins in that area again.

 

Have to say, that vent is something that needs looking at and I take it that the crew have to use that room. Why it is on the non smoking side is beyond me, though I think we are right that on some other P&O ships the smoking side is port side.

 

Re your original post, I can see your point, but I do think that we should let people make their own life choices (rather than the Government make them for us) and at the minute there seems to be a much better balance in society generally about smoking and where and when people can smoke.

 

Having said all that, it will come one day ....

[Presto2]

The air from the designated rooms on Princess goes through scrubbers before it is ventilated, I asked the question.

 

Not sure if this is the sort of room linked to my last post but if it did go through some sort of a filter it still stinks.

 

(Now have a headache trying to work out how to post a photograph ..... need a lie down now ;-) )

 

Edited December 26, 2017 by Presto2

[Mr Piano]

While they're at it, how about promoting healthy eating by removing all cream and sugar, banning puddings, and limiting everyone's calorie intake?

 

I've never had a problem avoiding smoke. It's a very limited area where smoking is allowed, and none of it is inside.

Let me allay your fears, there is no evidence that a person will become obese from passive ice cream or pudding eating from a person near you, unfortunately the same cannot be said about smoking and cancer

[joro44]

The air from the designated rooms on Princess goes through scrubbers before it is ventilated, I asked the question.

 

Exactly, at the end of an air-con/ventilation 'run'. Did your informant mention whether this facility was installed at the ship's build or as a retro-fit? What was the name of the Princess ship and when did it enter service? If it is a newish ship it could well be of the same Carnival class as P&O's new build and so a decision could be taken to follow suit.

Thus avoiding the pathetic situation as described on the Ventura, an 'Arthur Daley' garage retro-fit no doubt! Is there a similar feature on the Azura?

The need to provide inside venue(s) for even the decreasing number of smokers, is being brought about by the reduction in outdoor space per passenger in the larger ship class. Members have remarked on the decreasing size and even availablity of a circular promenade deck.

As I have said, it is the time to design for the future, whilst catering for the present.

[NoFlyGuy]

My point was that there is no evidence that passive smoke out in the open air causes any harm.

 

As for thinking that smoking is dying out, I would have to disagree. Imperial Brands and British American Tobacco's share prices are up 30 - 50% over the past 5 years. Hardly a sign that markets think either of these companies are about to succumb any time soon.

 

True, they have been buying up smaller Vaping companies in recent years, where growth seems to reside. Although some of these products come in various 'flavours', many still smell just like tobacco. Should vapours not be allowed to vape anywhere?

 

Otherwise the entire gist of the non smokers argument appears to be 'I don't like anything that smells like tobacco and therefore they should be banned'.

 

Again I ask who are the selfish and anti social ones?

[Ergates The Ant]

Some very interesting discussion here. I was interested to read about the 'smoking' outlet vent.

I had a similar problem on the Norwegian Jade this year. Having gone to great lengths to book a cabin above the non smoking side of the promenade deck, I was surprised at the smell on the balcony. I originally assumed that it was a smoker ignoring the balcony ban, until after a few trips round the Promenade deck, it became obvious that the smell was originating from inside the ship.

Surely common sense would suggest that if they are going to have a vent opening onto the promenade, that they allocate this side of the deck for smoking, rather than render both sides unpleasant for non smokers.

Those contributors who feel that smoke is not a problem in outside areas of a ship, are wrong. Some of us would like to enjoy the fresh air, and it is very arrogant to assume that the stink of smoke is a minor inconvenience.

[joro44]

There are, of course, several reasons why the international tobacco companies' shares have increased, not just vaping and acquisitions. For example, extensive expansion across the third world where sales are focussed, without local government intervention against selling full strength tobacco or advertising. Such products are intended to quickly create a nicotine habit among a population unaware of the effects it will have on them and their family, both in financial and health terms. Check out annual reports from the last decade or so to see the rate at which the companies opened new factories, whilst closing those in the developed world, including GBR&NI.

 

Back to the 'thread', how should we design our new family ship for the future, whilst catering for those declining few who presently smoke?

[NoFlyGuy]

Ergates The Ant - Is it just the smell you don't like, hopefully, having read my post re vaping. If so I reiterate my point that you are selfish one(s). There are a lot of actions/smells I don't like but don't expect them to be banned from cruise ships or anywhere else unless illegal.

 

Joro44 - Of course tobacco companies sell their wares in many countries. My point was the sale of nicotine based products shows no sign of decreasing and is unlikely to in the medium term and, as a smoker, why should it.

 

It's now time for the non smokers to prove the difference between 'I don't like the smell of nicotine based products' and 'This should be banned, It's going to take 'n' years of my life. None of you have managed that so far!

[joro44]

NoFlyGuy: you have not tried to answer the thrust of my thread:

How should we design our new build family ship, whilst catering for those declining few who presently smoke?

[jake 26]

Having read all the pro/con arguments and revisited the NHS Choices articles on smoking and passive smoking, and noted P&O's commitment to Macmillan (although it seems that smoking is responsible for more pulmonary diseases than cancer) I believe the future design for such ships must be smoke free.

That will obviously upset both smokers and non smokers for different reasons, but the responsible attitude must be that smoking is a health hazard to all and the future must be a gradual policy of eradication.

[bee-ess]

That will obviously upset both smokers and non smokers for different reasons, but the responsible attitude must be that smoking is a health hazard to all and the future must be a gradual policy of eradication.

 

So is excess alcohol and food !!

 

Cannot see P&O alienating all their smokers and would not contemplate such action unless all ships did it.

[john watson]

So is excess alcohol and food !!

 

Some cruise lines have made huge advances on the excess food problem by making their fayre completely awful.

 

Regards John

[CCFC]

Exactly, at the end of an air-con/ventilation 'run'. Did your informant mention whether this facility was installed at the ship's build or as a retro-fit? What was the name of the Princess ship and when did it enter service? If it is a newish ship it could well be of the same Carnival class as P&O's new build and so a decision could be taken to follow suit.

Thus avoiding the pathetic situation as described on the Ventura, an 'Arthur Daley' garage retro-fit no doubt! Is there a similar feature on the Azura?

The need to provide inside venue(s) for even the decreasing number of smokers, is being brought about by the reduction in outdoor space per passenger in the larger ship class. Members have remarked on the decreasing size and even availablity of a circular promenade deck.

As I have said, it is the time to design for the future, whilst catering for the present.

 

The smoking rooms were fitted when the ships were built, the Princess ships that I have experience of are Ruby Princess and Emerald Princess. On the Grand Princess there is a Cigar bar called Churchills behind the theatre, there is also one on the Royal class ships (same as Britannia) looking at the deck plans.

 

Cruis Critic have some pictures of the Emerald Speakeasy:

 

https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/photos/ships/emerald-princess-377/speakeasy-cigar-lounge-402287/speakeasy-cigar-lounge--v17974027/

[NoFlyGuy]

Not entirely sure why there would be any need to design cruise ships differently. If smoking, real or vaping, is dying out as some have suggested then what's the problem with the current crop of ships? If nobody smoked or vaped then there isn't a problem.

 

On P&O ships the area, both inside and outside, given over to smokers cannot be more than 1-2% yet there are still far more 'smokers' of either variety than that, so it's hardly we smokers who are selfish or antisocial is it.

 

Given up any hope of any non smoker attempting to answer my question regarding whether it's just the smell of tobacco/tobacco like products that they take umbrage to or whether they believe those who vape are going to cause them any health issues. If it's the health issue do please enlighten me and point me in the direction of some 'valid' research that supports your claim.