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Rhine water levels 2018 and similar topics

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14 minutes ago, ganski said:

Have noticed this morning that the Mani is in Niehl - may be going to stay a while so that it doesn't get to Amsterdam too early.  I don't think it is carrying passengers at the moment as it has only just started to move since the 9th November if my investigations have been correct.

 

We departed the Mani in Basel on November 9th, from what we were told the Mani was being sent away for repairs, the shaft was bent, something happened when the water was low. We started on the EIR and ship swapped to the MANI and in Basel everything on the MANI was transferred to the IDI, we had a departing lunch on that ship.

I thought something was up as it hadn't moved - thanks for the info!

Edited by peasmith
Grammar

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12 hours ago, hbr777 said:

It is interesting that we are still doing a ship swap even with high water levels. I am assuming AMA needs to position ships, just in case. I need to ask about this. How I would love to not swap ships!

  I would imagine this is a logistical decision-if you do not do a ship swap then both the Stella and the Kristina will be at the wrong end of the run to being their sailings next Monday ( we are scheduled on Stella out of Basil on the 10th).  Assuming the river does not go low again they will then be 'out of synch ' for all future sailings until they reposition.  I am sure it makes the most sense to to a ship swap this week and get everyone back on track so to speak.

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16 hours ago, gadugger said:

Below is the AMA PRIMA route from our Nov. 17 -24 cruise.  AMA did a very good job with this alternative route. However they did a poor job about communicating what was going on with the low water levels. 

 

image.png.b0bdecd71fe12e8b92c02b4fee722bbd.png

As an observer and interested engaged customer soon to travel, inclined to agree.

The onboard experience is excellent. however the off board organisation, post payment decision makers, responsible for disseminating information, need improvement. At least with this forum and other social media we and others have been assisted to get important updates. 

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Wow. What an amazingly helpful, insightful and educating thread this has been! The things I've learned about cruise lines, water levels and fellow cruisers. The sharing has been wonderful. We  cruised the Grand European route with Viking in late May and came out the other end without a hitch. Now, however, I will very very carefully study and consider all I learned  here before booking a 2019 adventure. To Notamermaid and the other expert contributes THANK YOU! You are all awesome. I am going to miss this thread, it's been my  morning coffee reading since at least August. Safe travels everyone and I hope we all have enough water next year to float a boat, but not too much!

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We received email from Viking that we would be on th idi and not the mani Friday 12/7 in Basel.

viking also had stated there could be a ship swap Strasbourg to cologne on day 4 and 5 of trip from Basel to amsterdam

Looks like traffic through the gorge is moving. I hope viking is just hedging their position and setting expectations 

 

cheers

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Question to the local German posters...

 

how critical is the river level at Strasbourg?  I ask as I notice it is the one marker that seems to be fluctuating between green and orange.

 

i has assumed that it was the Rhine Gorge that was the bottleneck before the rain came.  That area seems ok now though.

 

The level at Kehl-Kronenhof (at Strasbourg) seems to be a bit fickle.  Is it potentially a bottleneck if it does not get more rain or is the chart not as concerning as it may seem?

 

Thanks....

 

 

83BCD6EC-3DFB-45C8-8D64-D6EAF9A08548.jpeg

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1 hour ago, nstarrenburg said:

Question to the local German posters...

 

how critical is the river level at Strasbourg?  I ask as I notice it is the one marker that seems to be fluctuating between green and orange.

 

i has assumed that it was the Rhine Gorge that was the bottleneck before the rain came.  That area seems ok now though.

 

The level at Kehl-Kronenhof (at Strasbourg) seems to be a bit fickle.  Is it potentially a bottleneck if it does not get more rain or is the chart not as concerning as it may seem?

 

Thanks....

 

 

83BCD6EC-3DFB-45C8-8D64-D6EAF9A08548.jpeg

The Kehl-Kronenhof gauge near Strasbourg is within the canal/lock system of the Upper Rhine. I do not why it still appears as low. If I could find the figure it relates to I could probably explain but a reference is not published like it is for Maxau. The navigation channel is deep, in normal conditions kept at 3m.  As it is never mentioned in the news here and Maxau always given as one of the stations to look at by the authorities I would say that we can probably ignore the daily fluctuations at Kehl.

 

Just a quick update on the levels. It is looking good with all stations now having profited from the rain. The forecast for Kaub has changed and 200cm is no longer mentioned but with figures staying well over 100cm and more rain forecast it looks like plain sailing for quite some days to come.

 

Companies still have logistical problems to get round though which could still mean embarking at a different port or swapping ships.

 

notamermaid

 

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4 hours ago, bww00 said:

We received email from Viking that we would be on th idi and not the mani Friday 12/7 in Basel.

viking also had stated there could be a ship swap Strasbourg to cologne on day 4 and 5 of trip from Basel to amsterdam

Looks like traffic through the gorge is moving. I hope viking is just hedging their position and setting expectations 

 

cheers

Hi bww00

Can you please tell me which date you got the email that you might still be doing a ship swap?

Don't really understand why Viking would be still saying this.

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2 hours ago, vivivi said:

Hi bww00

Can you please tell me which date you got the email that you might still be doing a ship swap?

Don't really understand why Viking would be still saying this.

It is entirely possible that Viking may need to get particular ships back in the right place over the next couple of weeks so a swap is still plausible even if the water levels are fine.

 

 

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On 12/4/2018 at 5:38 PM, Crusin Kelly said:

I will add my thanks and well wishes to ms. Mermaid for a Blessed Christmas and Bountiful New Year. 

 

and we must all offer up a prayer of Thanksgiving to St. Nicholas for his gentle hand in making our sailings safe and worry-free.   "May St. Nicholas hold the tiller."

 

 

 

Cruisin Kelly, Thank you.

 

And today is perhaps the best day to give thanks to Saint Nicholas, as it is his special day in the Church calendar of patron saints. In western Europe his day is celebrated in many ways today. Most widely known is probably his connection with children and when the children put a shiny boot out they find it filled with goodies. The naughty ones get coal (or nothing). But he is also the patron saint of seafarers and inland waterways sailors. You could look up Nicholas on wikipedia, but as regards traditions I quite like this info from the Christmas museum: https://www.weihnachtsmuseum.de/en/die-ausstellung/gabenbringer/heiliger-nikolaus

 

Quite a few churches are dedicated to Sant Nicholas and along the Rhine there are some chapels that are or have been used for pilgrimages by sailors and those connected with the river in other ways. Some decades ago a pilgrimage was revived and now takes place every year on the Sunday after Saint Nicholas Day. The old chapel stands at the place where the dangerous passage through the Rhine gorge starts or ends depending on the direction you travel in. Praying for a safe passage or giving thanks for a safe passage. It is very small but perhaps you can make it out from the river when you sail past as it supposedly stands right underneath Ehrenfels castle on the main road: https://www.stnicholascenter.org/galleries/gazetteer/4781/

 

The new chapel is this one: https://www.stnicholascenter.org/galleries/gazetteer/4782/1/

 

Both traditions of giving treats to children and giving thanks by the seafarers and boatmen is lovingly combined when St. Nicolas visits the barges and tankers and hands over treats from his boat to the children, well adults mostly. This is what it looks like: https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/rheinland-pfalz/ludwigshafen/Motoryachtclub-Germersheim-beschenkt-zum-50,nikolaus-binnenschiffer-100.html

 

The headline says that even low water cannot stop Saint Nicholas. On the Rhine he cannot quietly appear though, too dangerous, so the ships are informed beforehand. They slow down so that St. Nicholas can hand over a bag with the help of a pole.

 

And here, taken from the 1840 book by John Snowe - The Rhine: The Most Interesting legends..., is a (warning) poem: image.png.bfa8ee1bc3041961f3f8f7a6b8ef896b.pngimage.png.b836439d780a5f332c19e78e4d0d6fcf.png

Never mock St. Nicholas and do be kind to Mother Nature.

 

I wish you all a safe and uninterrupted journey.

 

By the way, I have read in the past that on some river cruises, people have found little treats on St. Nicholas Day in their cabin or just outside the door... Have you found any?

 

notamermaid

 

 

Edited by notamermaid
Wrong word

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Thanks for this info. On our first (and most liked) Viking Cruise from Paris to Paris via Rouen, we were all asked to leave a shoe outside the door for St Nicholas - and in the morning each shoe was full of little treats. This actually was the most Christmassy cruise we have done, even more so than one which included Christmas Day!

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12 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Cruisin Kelly, Thank you.

 

And today is perhaps the best day to give thanks to Saint Nicholas, as it is his special day in the Church calendar of patron saints. In western Europe his day is celebrated in many ways today. Most widely known is probably his connection with children and when the children put a shiny boot out they find it filled with goodies. The naughty ones get coal (or nothing). But he is also the patron saint of seafarers and inland waterways sailors. You could look up Nicholas on wikipedia, but as regards traditions I quite like this info from the Christmas museum: https://www.weihnachtsmuseum.de/en/die-ausstellung/gabenbringer/heiliger-nikolaus

 

Quite a few churches are dedicated to Sant Nicholas and along the Rhine there are some chapels that are or have been used for pilgrimages by sailors and those connected with the river in other ways. Some decades ago a pilgrimage was revived and now takes place every year on the Sunday after Saint Nicholas Day. The old chapel stands at the place where the dangerous passage through the Rhine gorge starts or ends depending on the direction you travel in. Praying for a safe passage or giving thanks for a safe passage. It is very small but perhaps you can make it out from the river when you sail past as it supposedly stands right underneath Ehrenfels castle on the main road: https://www.stnicholascenter.org/galleries/gazetteer/4781/

 

The new chapel is this one: https://www.stnicholascenter.org/galleries/gazetteer/4782/1/

 

Both traditions of giving treats to children and giving thanks by the seafarers and boatmen is lovingly combined when St. Nicolas visits the barges and tankers and hands over treats from his boat to the children, well adults mostly. This is what it looks like: https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/rheinland-pfalz/ludwigshafen/Motoryachtclub-Germersheim-beschenkt-zum-50,nikolaus-binnenschiffer-100.html

 

The headline says that even low water cannot stop Saint Nicholas. On the Rhine he cannot quietly appear though, too dangerous, so the ships are informed beforehand. They slow down so that St. Nicholas can hand over a bag with the help of a pole.

 

And here, taken from the 1840 book by John Snowe - The Rhine: The Most Interesting legends..., is a (warning) poem: image.png.bfa8ee1bc3041961f3f8f7a6b8ef896b.pngimage.png.b836439d780a5f332c19e78e4d0d6fcf.png

Never mock St. Nicholas and do be kind to Mother Nature.

 

I wish you all a safe and uninterrupted journey.

 

By the way, I have read in the past that on some river cruises, people have found little treats on St. Nicholas Day in their cabin or just outside the door... Have you found any?

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing that.  My late mother was born on St. Nichola's day and she always told us stories including about the coal.  Her parents were from Poland and some of what you mentioned apparently happened there 100+ years ago too.  You've made me smile - yet again!

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AmaStella to AmaKristina ship swap today. Stella is in Ludwigshafen and the Kristina in Rudesheim. Sorry if these are misspelled. Water is still too low to pass. We had to change from one side of the river to the other while docked yesterday because of low water. Trying to make sense of that one. For those who have been here, we switched from the side of the river where the shopping center is, to the other.

 

Bags need to outside our doors at 7 am. We leave at 8:30 am for a two hour bus ride where the excursions start immediately. We get to the Kristina around 1:30 and immediately sail for the gorge. Arriving tonight in Koln.

 

 

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4 hours ago, hbr777 said:

AmaStella to AmaKristina ship swap today. Stella is in Ludwigshafen and the Kristina in Rudesheim. Sorry if these are misspelled. Water is still too low to pass. We had to change from one side of the river to the other while docked yesterday because of low water. Trying to make sense of that one. For those who have been here, we switched from the side of the river where the shopping center is, to the other.

 

Bags need to outside our doors at 7 am. We leave at 8:30 am for a two hour bus ride where the excursions start immediately. We get to the Kristina around 1:30 and immediately sail for the gorge. Arriving tonight in Koln.

 

 

That seems very strange.

 

all the river levels are now green which I assume means they allow traffic to proceed.

 

also, as per the attached, the AmaPrima has just sailed through that very section as it has travelled upriver and did not seem to have any problems.

 

the image attached shows the most recent path (viewing from left to right) for the AmaStella, the AmaKristina and the AmaPrima.  I had understood the reason for the ship swap was to allow the two ships to then backtrack and be where they should be for the next sailings.

 

now you have me worried.  If there is still a “blockage” how will it be in 10 days when we set sail.  Just what I need, something new to worry about.  🙂🙂🙂

 

8D870642-7ECE-46F2-9CBF-5878C9DA6A90.jpeg

Edited by nstarrenburg

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Okay, just to clarify this. The river is still in the low to medium range. But even if their was no rain coming we would not get back to the abysmally low levels we had two weeks ago. According to the forecast at Maxau that is. As far as I can see there is no blockage, but slow traffic due to traffic jams at locks perhaps, "catching-up traffic", getting ships where companies want them to be. Barges and tankers are not loading full yet. BASF is not on full production yet, as of yesterday. But for us river cruisers it does look good.

 

Swapping ships at Rüdesheim shows that the Rhine gorge is free, as you cannot logistically make a ship swap work at that point with another point further upstream like Mannheim when the passage is blocked. The usual swapping points are Koblenz and Rüdesheim, with other ports nearby stepping in if necessary. If you want to know exactly I would clarify with Ama why they are swapping, "the river is too low" sounds a bit weird, does not explain it.

 

Onto Ludwigshafen. That is an odd case which I mentioned to an acquaintance, a hydrology engineer. We both do not understand what they have done there. Ludwigshafen inaugurated a new landing stage at the shopping center in April of this year. In Summer I read a report that the steel construction/landing stage was not useable because of lack of depth in the river. Apparently the landing stage has not been used during the low water period. It sounds as if it is not equipped for low water at all. Here is a partly blocked article from the first docking in April: https://www.morgenweb.de/mannheimer-morgen_artikel,-ludwigshafen-erstes-schiff-legt-am-steiger-bei-der-rhein-galerie-an-_arid,1226896.html

 

That is probably, hbr777, why you moved to the other side of the river. Mannheim I guess? In the newspaper article a spokesperson for Mannheim harbour said that the authorities have already had enquiries from river cruise companies to move back to Mannheim in their schedule, away from Ludwigshafen. No wonder, if Ludwigshafen is not useable.

 

While a bit much in detail, I hope this post helps to calm your nerves, nstarrenburg.

 

And if any of you have not had enough tips for Christmas markets yet, river cruise or land tour, here is an article by Condé Nast Traveler: https://www.cntraveler.com/gallery/the-best-christmas-markets-in-germany

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

 

 

 

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58 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

Okay, just to clarify this. The river is still in the low to medium range. But even if their was no rain coming we would not get back to the abysmally low levels we had two weeks ago. According to the forecast at Maxau that is. As far as I can see there is no blockage, but slow traffic due to traffic jams at locks perhaps, "catching-up traffic", getting ships where companies want them to be. Barges and tankers are not loading full yet. BASF is not on full production yet, as of yesterday. But for us river cruisers it does look good.

 

Swapping ships at Rüdesheim shows that the Rhine gorge is free, as you cannot logistically make a ship swap work at that point with another point further upstream like Mannheim when the passage is blocked. The usual swapping points are Koblenz and Rüdesheim, with other ports nearby stepping in if necessary. If you want to know exactly I would clarify with Ama why they are swapping, "the river is too low" sounds a bit weird, does not explain it.

 

Onto Ludwigshafen. That is an odd case which I mentioned to an acquaintance, a hydrology engineer. We both do not understand what they have done there. Ludwigshafen inaugurated a new landing stage at the shopping center in April of this year. In Summer I read a report that the steel construction/landing stage was not useable because of lack of depth in the river. Apparently the landing stage has not been used during the low water period. It sounds as if it is not equipped for low water at all. Here is a partly blocked article from the first docking in April: https://www.morgenweb.de/mannheimer-morgen_artikel,-ludwigshafen-erstes-schiff-legt-am-steiger-bei-der-rhein-galerie-an-_arid,1226896.html

 

That is probably, hbr777, why you moved to the other side of the river. Mannheim I guess? In the newspaper article a spokesperson for Mannheim harbour said that the authorities have already had enquiries from river cruise companies to move back to Mannheim in their schedule, away from Ludwigshafen. No wonder, if Ludwigshafen is not useable.

 

While a bit much in detail, I hope this post helps to calm your nerves, nstarrenburg.

 

And if any of you have not had enough tips for Christmas markets yet, river cruise or land tour, here is an article by Condé Nast Traveler: https://www.cntraveler.com/gallery/the-best-christmas-markets-in-germany

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank  you mein Herr.... 🙂🙂

 

seriously though, I really do appreciate your local knowledge and wisdom.  You deserve a medal.

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Onboard Viking Eir A-B. Leaving tonight. Captain just announced that we will be able to cruise the middle Rhine!!!!!  No ship change.  Crew is very excited 😆. 11 weeks of changing ships.   Hope everyone has a great future cruise !!

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Hoyarn91

 

 Great news thank you for sharing! We are on that ship next week

 B to A, and  knowing we might avoid ship swaps is a fabulous Christmas gift !!   Have a great onward journey and happy holidays !

 

Michele

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@hbr777 - If you can - could you share the excursion options - I'm on the same itin on Dec 22 and haven't gotten any info from AMA and my kids are curious about what the potential options are each stop. 

 

Glad you are making it thru the reg itin as much as possible.

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2 hours ago, Tedescokid1 said:

@hbr777 - If you can - could you share the excursion options - I'm on the same itin on Dec 22 and haven't gotten any info from AMA and my kids are curious about what the potential options are each stop. 

 

Glad you are making it thru the reg itin as much as possible.

No change to the excursion options really from the original.

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Just disembarked the Viking Alruna three hours ago.  We made it all the way and on time ... B to A.  Yesterday the river in the Netherlands almost looked like the ocean with the winds causing some moderate sized waves.  Our stop at the windmills of Kinderdijk was basically a disaster because of the weather ... moderate to heavy rain at times with wind gusts up to 40 mph.  Some brave souls did venture out on the scheduled walking tour to and amid the windmills.  They got drenched.

 

I did notice river traffic seemed to be picking up quite a bit yesterday ... Friday.  That may have an impact on riverboat itineraries ... I don't know who has priority at the locks.  I asked an Alruna staff member how long it would take to sail from B to A without stops ... he said no more than three days.  Based on that, I would expect that the operators could make it all the way now but could have to exercise the option of skipping a stop or two if river traffic did slow them down.

 

Doug

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We made it to the AMAPrima yesterday afternoon in Basel.  No deviation to our schedule has been mentioned so I assume we will right through.  We had rain most of the night and it is too dark now at 7:00 AM to see if it still raining out.  

 

All of us on the lowest deck got upgraded to either deck 2 or 3 so that the first deck is completely empty.  There are 101 passengers on board due to the number of people who cancelled

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Thanks, G.M.T.

 

It echoes what I have read in the Bonn newspaper "Der Generalanzeiger", well, it is the same press release, just in different phrases. Months of double the average rainfall to bring us back to where we want to be? Awkward, as it would cause flooding in March/April. But we are used to that anyway, I just do not want to see a new record in the opposite direction of drought. The weekend has been wet, I have not seen so much rainfall in two days on any given two consecutive days since June probably in my area. A guess of mine, but not far from the truth. Nevertheless, I do not think we will see much more rain this winter than we normally do at this time of year.

 

Deutsche Welle reported on the dry conditions at the end of November: https://www.dw.com/en/germany-registers-record-low-rainfall/a-46510847

 

For now, I am glad it is raining and the river cruisers are happy. Drought and flooding, to some extent, are part and parcel of river cruising, just as they are a part of the locals' lives, and will inevitably return. Some time next year, probably one or the other. For a day, a week or a month...

 

The river levels are looking good, even for commercial shipping there is almost a return to normality. As long as the levels are backed up by more rain. Temperatures are forecast to drop to freezing conditions, but it will be dry with little snow. Rain will return soon, though, with rising temperatures.

 

notamermaid

 

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The Netherlands are not really a big country and is so often the case tourists to that place flock to the certain areas of interest. Here: Amsterdam. The city sees 18 million visitors each year, more than the population of the whole of the Netherlands. No wonder the Dutch that escape to the hills in Germany each Summer. :classic_wink: The Amsterdam authorities have had enough and steps have been taken to get the crowds under control: https://www.dw.com/en/amsterdam-cracks-down-on-tourist-excesses/a-44994468

 

Unconnected or not (they are supposed to be in need of renovation), the authorities have now removed the iconic lettering in front of the Rijksmuseum: https://www.dw.com/en/amsterdam-removed-a-popular-selfie-backdrop/a-46552944

 

Quite frankly, the Rijksmuseum looks better without them...

 

notamermaid

 

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Ignore my last post - modern technology accidentally quoted and posted!

Sorry to hear about the shooting in Strasbourg and feel for the family of the person who has died and for the injured. We will be there next week now on the Idi rather than the Mani for our cruise on Friday - hope they catch the gunman soon

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4 minutes ago, peasmith said:

Ignore my last post - modern technology accidentally quoted and posted!

Sorry to hear about the shooting in Strasbourg and feel for the family of the person who has died and for the injured. We will be there next week now on the Idi rather than the Mani for our cruise on Friday - hope they catch the gunman soon

 

Post deleted

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Tragedy in Strasbourg, exasperation with the British in Brussels, my beloved island drifting ever further into a state of disarray, as one interviewee on BBC put it...

 

Glad to only have to deal with standard health problems and the usual stress before Christmas (although I am still somewhat annoyed with a colleague for packing it in when we are in desperate need of staff) I try to push aside the sombre thoughts about the state of this world.

 

I hope someone is still around to join me in festive spirit and like me enjoys this article by Deutsche Welle. And now, ladies and gentlemen, we proudly present a "parade" of Nikoläuse*: https://www.dw.com/en/why-st-nicholas-puts-candy-in-boots-and-stole-our-hearts/a-18889948

 

notamermaid

 

*plural for German (Sankt) Nikolaus - (Saint) Nicholas

 

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A few weeks ago we were worried about the water levels on the Rhine

Today it is about the Stasbourg shooting last night at the Christmas Markets. We are speechless and saddened.

Our prayers go out to the victims and their families 

 

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To Notamermaid, we are truly grateful to you for your valuable and wise perspective and for providing interesting tidbits about your part of the world.  We have enjoyed your posts throughout the summer, and we really appreciate the link to the article about our beloved Sankt Nikolaus.  We whole-heartedly join you in your festive spirit and we extend our heartiest best wishes that the warm traditions of Christmas will bring you happiness to last throughout the year. 

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