Royal Caribbean Fights Back!

[pcur]

I would like this to be resolved as much as you, Esmerelda, and I am NOT making excuses. I am stating what I know to be facts as they have been explained to me, and what I've heard and read.

 

I have a friend who tracks this incident in a true crime message board, and she said the blood was supposedly from before they left for dinner, not some unknown incident in the cabin later in the evening. And, yes, it WAS a small amount of blood on a towel, etc.

 

I have every sympathy for these families, as I have stated over and over and over again. Just trying to participate in a friendly message board thread, and state my views without stepping on anybody's right to express themselves.

[DNCButler]

pcur, I don't think you were making any excuses. I even went back and re-read your post.

 

And I also wanted to add that there are many camera's on board ships. You can even watch some of them in your cabin. Anyone ever have this channel on and see people who have NO CLUE that there is a camera there with a whole ship watching them? Could be quite embarassing!!

[pcur]

Thanks, DCNButler.

 

My DH and I were just talking about an hour ago about this thread, and he says they have a VEEEEERY embarassing video of me, mooning him out the cabin door on another cruise line!! :D :o

 

I said I figured by now it was part of the crew's "Passenger's Comedy Video" that's passed around from crew member to crew member...like the AFV show!!

[DNCButler]

Ummmm.....yep! I'm still being blackmailed with pictures myself!! Only by my sister! My DH just laughs!

[nrdsb4]

The one good thing that might come from this is maybe they will install more cameras to help prevent this sort of thing.

 

The day cruise ships install cameras that photograph the goings on of private balconies is the day I quit cruising.

 

Whether he was pushed off or fell off, likely only a very intrusive camera could have recorded it at that time of night. And it would not have PREVENTED it, only photographed it.

 

Anyone wishing for a guarantee of personal safety in any venue is hoping for the impossible.

[OceanCruise]

Twinkletoes, if there was obvious blood in the cabin then why didn't the wife notice it? Also, what was RCCL supposed to do besides call the authorities? I can understand if you feel the Turkish authorities were not thorough, but RCCL properly alerted the Turkish authorities and the FBI and then followed what they recommended.

[Weez]

Twinkletoes, if there was obvious blood in the cabin then why didn't the wife notice it? Also, what was RCCL supposed to do besides call the authorities? I can understand if you feel the Turkish authorities were not thorough, but RCCL properly alerted the Turkish authorities and the FBI and then followed what they recommended.

 

Because she didnt want to notice it? Pure speculation on my part but saying it was an accident is the same thing, pure speculation.

[twinkletoes4445]

 

I feel terrible for the family, I truly do, this is a tragic situation for sure. But if anyone learns anything from this, it should be to not drink to the point you can't walk, stand, or remember where your cabin is. AND DON'T SIT ON RAILINGS!

 

We do not know that he was sitting on the railings. My concern is for my safety. I am not happy with RCCL at this point. I suppose it's probably pointless to argue this his, it's much like saying you had a bad time on your cruise (over on the Carnival board). :)

 

My mistake for wandering over here. I wish all you the best on this line, and I do hope the Smith's find out what happened to their son. I do not believe it was an accident. I believe someone killed Mr. Smith. Pretty simple, and of course...this is just my opinion.

[twinkletoes4445]

Twinkletoes, if there was obvious blood in the cabin then why didn't the wife notice it?

 

They found the wife passed out near the crew elevator. A crew member took her (by wheelchair) back to the cabin. She was hammered from the illegal alcohol (and who was serving this stuff, anyway? RCCL?). So I can see why she didn't see the blood because it was on a towel, and in a couple of other locations. As for the employee who brought her back...there was blood, but he didn't see it. The curtain was closed, and the largest blood deposit was on the handrail and the lifeboat that he hit, before he hit the water.

 

I don't know what happened, but I will say again, I am not happy with the way RCCL handled this. And as for the illegal booze, who served it? The ship? And this man was so hammered as was his wife. What about being responsible (yes, I know they shouldn't have had that much, but WHY keep serving them? I suppose to get their bill higer??)? They should have not served him or her after a certain point. Same as at a bar.

 

I know I am beating a dead horse here...so I'll mosey on. :)

[pcur]

We do not know that he was sitting on the railings. My concern is for my safety. I am not happy with RCCL at this point. I suppose it's probably pointless to argue this his, it's much like saying you had a bad time on your cruise (over on the Carnival board). :)

 

My mistake for wandering over here. I wish all you the best on this line, and I do hope the Smith's find out what happened to their son. I do not believe it was an accident. I believe someone killed Mr. Smith. Pretty simple, and of course...this is just my opinion.

 

Look, we're not trying to pick on you, but some of your statements ARE contrary to what the rest of us have seen and heard. We are NOT cheerleaders, necessarily, for RCCL, but this thread has been going since last July, and the facts are pretty much the same.

 

Dr. Lee found evidence on the balcony of their cabin ("biological" evidence"), and the furniture was positioned like someone was sitting on the railing with their feet in a chair.

 

So, don't take offense to us contradicting you. It's just the way we see it.

 

We all have our opinions, but it's an open debate, and debate we will.

 

Hope you stick around, because we have some good info on this thread.

[abridalmaven]

Where does it say RCI served the illegal stuff....try nowhere, it was provided by the other men not RCI, so how could RCI prevent that? You mean to tell me on Carnival they do not smuggle booze? RIIIIIIGHT!:rolleyes:

[mafig]

Absinthe was not available for purchase. It was smuggled aboard by the Smiths or their "friends."

 

Also back to the blood in the room. Another opportunity for Jennifer to notice blood in the room was in the morning. Guess she didn't see it by dawn's early light either.:confused:

[pcur]

Per the 48 hours program last weekend, it was a SMALL amount of blood. Like you cut yourself on your hand and bled.

 

Absinthe makes you crazy. It used to be what the rich addicts drank back in the late 19th century, especially in Europe.

[Weez]

Dr. Lee found evidence on the balcony of their cabin ("biological" evidence"), and the furniture was positioned like someone was sitting on the railing with their feet in a chair.

 

I'm not doubting you on this but more curious on this statement. You're obviously of the opinion it was an accident. I am curious what kind of "biological" evidence was found and how does this lend any credibility to the accident theory? Where did you hear this? and what was said? Did they find shoe prints on the chair? or was it just the way the chair was positioned that leads you to believe he was sitting on the railing?

[mafig]

I had read that George had often sat on the balcony railing while smoking a cigar. Could be he tried it again that night, but due to the intoxication and the rolling of the ship, he lost his balance.

[pcur]

I'm not doubting you on this but more curious on this statement. You're obviously of the opinion it was an accident. I am curious what kind of "biological" evidence was found and how does this lend any credibility to the accident theory? Where did you hear this? and what was said? Did they find shoe prints on the chair? or was it just the way the chair was positioned that leads you to believe he was sitting on the railing?

 

Dr. Lee said on camera during the 48 Hours program last weekend that he couldn't disclosed what the evidence was, but it was "biological evidence". His words.

 

Mafig's correct: George did this backward sitting thing before during the cruise.

[DNCButler]

Look, I haven't seen anything yet that indicates to me that this was anything more than a man falling overboard who was intoxicated. You have your opinion and that's fine. But I'm trying to base my opinion on the facts that have been shown so far.

 

He went missing. They paged him and the searched for him. When they found the wife they assisted her. They called the authorities who investigated, took depositions, took samples of the blood and whatever else they needed to do. Let's add in here AGAIN the fact that he on several occassions sat on the railing and smoked a cigar. The chair when they found it was facing that direction up and up against the railing. Not saying that's what happened as a fact, but that he was known to do that in the past on this cruise.

 

When they cleared the ship the captain double check with all involved and made sure he had the authority to do so. He wasn't just trying to get out of dodge here. He had an obligation to the other 2500 other passengers that paid a lot of money for THEIR dream vacation. There was no word that this was anything more than an accidental man overboard. So they sailed but didn't clean the cabin for a long period of time and kept the cabin sealed just in case the authorities need to access it again. HOW did RCI not do enough? I just don't get that. In fact I suspect that attitude of RCI should have done more is what upsets so many here. Just what more SHOULD they have done??? Short of not allowing them to all get stinking drunk I don't know what more RCI could have done to prevent this!!

[RickandSusan]

Does it occur to anyone here that the blame is on the individuals that became so out of control that a very sad incident had to occur. When you travel, as an adult, it is assumed by any company that you are capable of conducting yourself in a responsible manner. I feel terrible for the families left behind, but come on people, GET REAL. "There is no such thing as an accident, only poor planning". What was this guy thinking? to sit on the railing of a balcony of a moving ship? The Blame Game needs to stop because RCCI did not force this couple to become this inebbriated and they certainly were too old for babysitters.

[bflowngs]

Here is what I don't get!!

 

This couple was on their honeymoon. I don't know about the rest of you, but I certainly wouldn't have a fight with my bride in a bar and let her go off without finding her. Why did this guy continue to drink with his buddies that he just met on the cruise? Why would he want to spend more time with them than his new wife?

 

She was passed out in one of the corridors. She didn't even know he was missing or that there was an accident until the next day.

 

I also heard on a recent report that he often didn't return to his cabin at night. What was he doing???

 

I don't know about you all....but when my wife and I cruise we stay in our cabin at night. I don't go wandering at all hours and hang out at the bar with the "guys."

 

I think she knew this was going to be hard to explain to both families. She had to blame the cruise line so the heat would be off her. Now it is all coming back to haunt her. I feel very badly for both families. If this couple had any sense, he would still be alive today.

[horsefeathers75]

I agree with you bflowngs. On their honeymoon and he sleeps elsewhere, give me a break, please and then the captain has to inform her at the "couples massage" that her husband is missing. Can you imagine how this captain felt that he had to inform the 'bride' that her husband is missing and she says to him that oh he has slept in someone's elses cabin already this week on our cruise but yet we came with no one we knew. Can you imagine the scutterbug the crew had about this couple. I have had a balcony cabin and anyone that sits on that railing is just asking for an accident. Those railings are not that big and it would take a lot to stay balanced on one when you are dead somber. If he had been smoking a cigar earlier in the week sitting on that railing, then it is a no brainer that he thought he was somber enough to do it again. I am sorry for the Smith's loss but eventually, they are going to have to come to terms with it, it will be emotional and painful but it will drive them crazy otherwise. As for Jennifer, she will be over it if she gets a settlement from RCCL and then she will move on and marry another after she gets a movie contract.

[AFT_LOVER]

as the Smiths have blown it out of proportion, a small amount on a towel, on a Kleenex & 3 drops in the bed. Yet George was on top of the made bed, as was Jen, so who's blood from which of 8 nights.

 

Jen shaves her legs & nicks one, blood on Kleenex, towel even bed, so that case closed.

 

My neighbor is now talking of no murder. With 6 CPD cars in front of my house as our new next door nieghbors were arrested with 2 other in laws for robbery & the "HSC" inside their home of stolen goods. So we all get talking & George was brought up as was Natalee in Aruba. Everyone thinks both are still alive. And we got suppeonas yesterday for a trial that my DH & I will be on a cruise during it. So we will tape testimony.

 

 

 

I would like this to be resolved as much as you, Esmerelda, and I am NOT making excuses. I am stating what I know to be facts as they have been explained to me, and what I've heard and read.

 

I have a friend who tracks this incident in a true crime message board, and she said the blood was supposedly from before they left for dinner, not some unknown incident in the cabin later in the evening. And, yes, it WAS a small amount of blood on a towel, etc.

 

I have every sympathy for these families, as I have stated over and over and over again. Just trying to participate in a friendly message board thread, and state my views without stepping on anybody's right to express themselves.

[AFT_LOVER]

for 4 bottles of booze including the absinthe bought by the Smiths in Italy. The other 3 bottles are visible in the photos under his cowboy hat.

 

Now also dear Clete tells all news magazines that at 7AM her peaked around the balcony divider, which he didn't do during all the noise he heard or when he heard the THUMP. He states the blinds were open as was the door. So did Jen open it all when she got out of bed prior???

 

And my major questions on this thump, if a large man fell 2 stories to a canopy atop life boats which was right outside my balcony door. Wouldn't I hear it or one of my 2 daughters???

 

 

They found the wife passed out near the crew elevator. A crew member took her (by wheelchair) back to the cabin. She was hammered from the illegal alcohol (and who was serving this stuff, anyway? RCCL?). So I can see why she didn't see the blood because it was on a towel, and in a couple of other locations. As for the employee who brought her back...there was blood, but he didn't see it. The curtain was closed, and the largest blood deposit was on the handrail and the lifeboat that he hit, before he hit the water.

 

I don't know what happened, but I will say again, I am not happy with the way RCCL handled this. And as for the illegal booze, who served it? The ship? And this man was so hammered as was his wife. What about being responsible (yes, I know they shouldn't have had that much, but WHY keep serving them? I suppose to get their bill higer??)? They should have not served him or her after a certain point. Same as at a bar.

 

I know I am beating a dead horse here...so I'll mosey on. :)

[nrdsb4]

I don't know what happened, but I will say again, I am not happy with the way RCCL handled this. And as for the illegal booze, who served it? The ship? :)

 

Just the fact that you are asking this question tells me that you really haven't researched this incident very much. It has been stated ad nauseaum on just about every source that the alcohol consumed was not only smuggled onboard, but is illegal in the US due to its strong mind altering properties. Seeing that you obviously only have a surface knowledge of these events, it's hard to understand how you have already concluded that RCI has been negligent or that this incident indicates that YOU would be at peril on an RCI ship.

 

By the way, I'm also a Carnival fan, but Carnival has had the MOST numbers of people go overboard of any cruise line.

[DNCButler]

Anyone remember the Carnival passenger who actually JUMPED off the ship because he was having such a good time in port he didn't want to leave? The man was smashed (duh right?) when he went over and it's amazing that he survived the fall but actually tried to swim back to shore!! I bet some would still fault the cruise line even in that case too though!

[Tigerlily2643]

After reading the Vanity Fair article, I'm of the opinion it was a tragic accident, as well. He was blind drunk, sat on the rail, and over he went. I've been on 6 cruises, and on 5 out of the 6 I've seen some drunken fool do something stupid involving climbing on or over a railing. Curiously, the only cruise where I did not see this happen was on my most recent cruise, which was my first on Royal Caribbean.

 

I also think the wife knows more than she's telling. Maybe she saw him go over and panicked, then lied so her in-laws wouldn't blame her for not stopping him? Who knows what really went on, but the whole "honeymoon sleepover" thing is pretty strange to begin with, and finding her passed out in the hall elsewhere on the ship does not lend credibility to her or her story in any way.

 

As for the "Russians", yeah, they're not the kind of boys I'd want dating my daughter, but that doesn't make them murderers. They had no motive as far as I can tell, and Josh the college kid certainly had no motive. AFAIK, nothing was reported missing from the cabin, so there goes the robbery motive. No arrests have been made, so apparently the FBI hasn't found any evidence tying any of these boys to Smith's disappearance.

 

There is one question that remains unanswered for me: In several places I've seen it mentioned that Smith sat backwards on the rail with his feet in the chair. How could he do that unless his lower legs were freakishly long or the chair seat was abnormally high or the rail abnormally low? More than likely, his feet were propped on the back of the chair or just dangling. Either way, this is an idiotic thing to do sober or drunk, at sea or anywhere else.