Royal Caribbean Fights Back!

[AFT_LOVER]

Josh's tape on NBC:

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6448213/did/8984733

[1corona4u]

Josh's tape on NBC:

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6448213/did/8984733

 

Says video no longer available...interesting....

[AFT_LOVER]

and they state that Josh is 20!

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8983858

[1corona4u]

Here's an interesting transcript, this goes way back, probably one of the first;

 

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9356611/page/2/

[FinelyCruising]

I read a good portion of MACOP's MSN. It seems like a lot of specualtion....

[AFT_LOVER]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10725129/

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10777150/

[kenf333]

Here's an interesting transcript, this goes way back, probably one of the first;

 

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9356611/page/2/

 

Ok, based on the recent news, think about this. If you read the news from that link it will take you into the direction that Jenifer was wrong, that may have been what the lawyer intended or Josh wanted people to think. From all accounts Jennifer has been cleared (correct me if im wrong). Make sense to send the law in one direction while your going the opposite way.

[AFT_LOVER]

http://www.angelsmissing.com/forum/page-2-t1982-s15.html

[1corona4u]

Ok, based on the recent news, think about this. If you read the news from that link it will take you into the direction that Jenifer was wrong, that may have been what the lawyer intended or Josh wanted people to think. From all accounts Jennifer has been cleared (correct me if im wrong). Make sense to send the law in one direction while your going the opposite way.

 

Yeah, but you all have to read all of the pages of this...I am past page 5, and there really are some interesting points being made it in. Page always continues, and links to more of the story.

 

I think this was out there, before all of the "color" came into this case.....

[1corona4u]

Like this excerpt....

 

And something else in the police officer’s recollection intrigues Van Zandt. After the three leave, the business about a lone voice in the cabin.

Van Zandt:

The challenge here is this single voice. Is this allegedly highly-intoxicated man talking to himself? Is he rambling on because he drank too much, because he won money... or, is this, perhaps, George Smith laid out on a bed? And this other person still in the room of this group of four, this one is still there?

Murphy:

The chief hears that voice moving.

Van Zandt:

Who’s up moving around? Opening and closing cabinet doors. What would George Smith be looking for if he’s opening and closing cabinet doors? Moving furniture? Or what could somebody else be looking for?

Likewise, Van Zandt thinks the couple through the other cabin wall, Pat and Greg Lawyer’s description of loud noises is an important clue.

Van Zandt:

This is not just let’s scoot a chair across the floor. This is banging. This is moving. This is dragging. This is something that has to reverberate against the wall to make that kind of sound.

Murphy:

Purely speculation: what the couple hears, what they regard as this kind of violent moving about of furniture. Could it be a physical fight? Could it be guys exchanging blows and throwing one another around the room?

Van Zandt:

What we’re missing is: ‘Why are you doing this to me? Don’t hit me again! You no good… and so-and-so.’ We’re missing the profanity that might normally accompany this kind of fisticuff. Now it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. And it may mean that one person was simply not capable of talking.

Statements

What Jennifer has said of events is known by the FBI, but not us. We do know that she’s not a suspect in the foul play theory and the investigators likely do know where she was in those early morning hours.

Van Zandt:

Probably by the security cameras onboard the ship. By statements of people who may have seen her. And by her key card that at least would have showed what time she went in and out of the room, if she did at the critical night.

As for the three Russian Boys, it would be very helpful to line up their statements against those of the people on either side of the cabin and with Josh but, like Jennifer, we don’t know what they’ve said. The FB.I. does.

Josh’s statement

And that leaves us with Josh’s statement, as told through his lawyer.

Van Zandt:

You know, Josh is a critical piece of information here...

Van Zandt wonders about Josh’s account of being in the Smith cabin bathroom as the Russians settle down a drunken George.

Van Zandt:

But he knows they put him to bed. They take his shoes off. How does he know that if he’s in the bathroom? I’m missing that aspect of it.

And then there's the bootlegged Turkish deposition video.

Van Zandt:

All of a sudden he’s pointing fingers at other people. I mean that’s interesting. I want to take that information but I also got to take a step back and say, "Why are you bringing other people into this when I’m only saying 'What do you know about it?' Not what you know about others."

In response to Van Zandt, Josh's lawyer says George's disappearance was very upsetting to his client and that Josh has been honest and forthcoming with authorities.

Keep in mind, FBI investigators have many more interviews, photos and presumably forensic evidence than we’ve talked about with Clint Van Zandt.

But it maybe most intrigues the former criminal-mind profiler that the bureau is still actively working the investigation at a time when the agency has many other demands on it.

Murphy:

When you look at all the evidence, you rule out suicide. Where do you come down between accident and foul play?

Van Zandt:

I’m a surfer and I’m right on the line between the two. I have a hard time ruling out foul play.

Murphy:

I wonder if we’re gonna know what happened to George Smith?

Van Zandt:

I think we will. I think that somewhere between the men that had access to George, to Jennifer, to the cabin— be they passengers or be they crew members—there’s too many people, not for somebody to break form the pack and roll over and tell us the story. I think we’re gonna know.

If so, know the end to a marriage that lasted only 11 days— the sad voyage of Mr. and Mrs. Smith.

Dateline tried to talk to Jennifer Hagel and the family of George Smith — they declined. As did the so-called "Russian Boys." At this point, no charges have been filed in the case.

[kenf333]

Yeah, but you all have to read all of the pages of this...I am past page 5, and there really are some interesting points being made it in. Page always continues, and links to more of the story.

 

I think this was out there, before all of the "color" came into this case.....

 

Ok, wow um not sure other than the story said she was in a lounge, and the ship says hall way. By looking at GS I find it hard to see one person through him overboard. And that one stayed behind to straighten up and maybee get the money. It is interesting that the russians get kicked off the ship though. Well I guess we let the pros figure this mess out.

[FinelyCruising]

I just finished the whole thing. It was great and thank you for posting the link.

 

While each neigbor hear noise it was characterized in differnt ways by each neighbor.

 

Yet I come away with the possibility of George settle down as a George who is so riled up that his wide is not in the cabin, and may be chummy with another guy that he starts getting very angry and violent. That is something I might do if that frustrated when I came back after the evenings events as described, and found my spouse not in the bed.

 

Josh wants to say more but is muted. I beleive that from what I just read.

 

I need to go back and reread how the group became one less.

 

I can't beleive that no one sensed that a noise occured that would have come from George hitting the canopy. Usually after such commotion, all noises are heard until you are sure there is not one more to be heard. The reverb comments may have been that one noise, since the weight hitting the canopy out to have been described as a reverb, but no one oriented it to outside.

 

Why would a person remaining in the cabin, if so, need to move the chair backward to dump Geroge over the balcony. I am trying to think of how the chair would have help that occur by a murderer, or if it may have just ended up that way as a consequence.

[EBFURR]

First of all thanks for the invite and kind words!

 

Second, if I were Jen, I would take the "beyond Suspicion" business a little easy. All that I have heard from any credible source is that the FBI said she was "cooperating fully" with them. As anyone who recalls the OJ Simpson case will recall, in the weeks after the murders, the official police statements were that he was "cooperating fully". Later, he was charged.

 

One reason they do this is to keep the dialog alive. The minute they indicate she is under suspicion, her lawyer will shut her up like a clam. At least now she is talking to them. Second, by avoiding pointing the finger at her, they keep her at ease and she is more likely to let her guard down and spill some previously withheld information. Not saying this is the case with JHS, but it could be.

 

My personal opinion is that for many reasons she is probably not capable of tossing GS over by herself. More likely, she has some knowledge of who did and is now complicit by the fact that she has not come forward.

 

All of that assumes that GS was tossed over board, which still may not be the case. I am still holding accidental at 50% probability.

 

By the way, you can refuse to talk to the FBI by getting a lawyer and demanding a subpoena. There has been some grand jury talk lately; in fact it was reported as fact by Fox. A grand jury is the final word. Get caught lying to them and you are toast unless you are Bill Clinton.

 

To anyone who has access to Fox News, they are the most reliable, objective, and fair coverage by far. MSNBC is a circus. Greta Van Sustren (sp?) at 10:00 PM Eastern is doing a super job of covering this case. Only thing is, if you read CC, you already know most of what she is going to say. I find myself talking to the TV trying to tell her what questions to ask her guests.

[FinelyCruising]

....and here's a big clue. 'They took his shoes off.' Can his wife verify what shoes he had on, can anyone who saw him what shoes he was wearing who was with him? If someone can, were the shoes among his belongings that were collected by the cruiseline and given back to his wife. If not, then he went over with them and someone is lying.

[FinelyCruising]

EFBURR...I am feeling in my bones that Jennifer had nothing to do with any of his disappearance, which is unlike what I thought earlier today.

[kenf333]

....and here's a big clue. 'They took his shoes off.' Can his wife verify what shoes he had on, can anyone who saw him what shoes he was wearing who was with him? If someone can, were the shoes among his belongings that were collected by the cruiseline and given back to his wife.

 

Seen it some where that " his shoes were sticking outside the bag" not sure if the same shoes he had on that night though. I agree that should help with the invesigation.

[catmommy]

One more point. When Josh asked about blood outside the ship, it could have been because he had heard the rumors already. After all, the blood was spotted around 8:30 and it was after 10:00 when JHS was brought into Maries office. On the other hand, he is the only one who felt compelled to go down to the office when he heard the Smiths being paged and was the only one of the 4 men who was taken to the Turkish police. He did seem awfully eager to accuse the casino employee. Again, it is not clear cut either way.

 

I thught Josh was responding to the page? If I recall correctly, someone check me on this, they discovered 3 folks missing after the blood had been reported. Mr. and Mrs. Smith and Josh. Recall when they started checking the cabins near where the blood was found they had 3 unaccounted for people.

 

They found JHS in the spa and Josh responded to the page.

 

I think Josh's room may have been nearby to the Smiths'.

 

I think I read this in one of the RCCL timelines.

 

But I might be wrong.

 

Calm seas,

Caroline

[Barky]

Seen it some where that " his shoes were sticking outside the bag" not sure if the same shoes he had on that night though. I agree that should help with the invesigation.

 

Jennifer in her interview with Scarborough mentioned his sneakers sticking out of the bag. I suspect he would have had dress shoes on as he was wearing a sport coat which he put back in the room after dinner.

[Barky]

I thught Josh was responding to the page? If I recall correctly, someone check me on this, they discovered 3 folks missing after the blood had been reported. Mr. and Mrs. Smith and Josh. Recall when they started checking the cabins near where the blood was found they had 3 unaccounted for people.

 

They found JHS in the spa and Josh responded to the page.

 

I think Josh's room may have been nearby to the Smiths'.

 

I think I read this in one of the RCCL timelines.

 

But I might be wrong.

 

Calm seas,

Caroline

 

I don't believe the identity of the third missing person has been revealed.

 

I remember thinking Greta was trying to get Marie to say it was Josh who was in the office with Jennifer but I was never clear as to how he came to be there in the first place. I thought he had just "showed up" but that was just my impression.

[DroopySails]

Droopy, I am simply trying to point out absurdity by being absurd. I am in no way trying to trivialize the death of GS IV....Consider this: The lawyers are saying they intend to get to the bottom of GW’s disappearance. Meanwhile, the only way they are going to reap financial benefit is from a successful lawsuit against RCI for improper handling of the incident. There primary claim is that RCI destroyed or suppressed evidence and that it has impeded and prevented law enforcement from identifying, indicting, and prosecuting the perpetrator. If the FBI does succeed in the above, it will completely knock the legs from under the lawyers’ case. Based on that, it is actually in the best interest of the attorneys if a suspect is NOT prosecuted and convicted. It would also ruin them if the death was to be ruled accidental by the authorities. Their only chance for success comes from and unsolved crime. It is actually in the ATTORNEY’s best interest to impede the investigation, not RCI. RCI’s best interests are served by getting the case solved and out of the news.

corona, the phone angle is brilliant. More points for you.

 

I know you weren't trying to be snarky about anyone's death, EB; saying your posts were funny was a genuine compliment. And I long ago came to the same conclusion about whether or not the family lawyers want this case solved and what happens to their interests if it's ruled accidental death.

[DroopySails]

Do we all have Fox News on?

 

Even my fascination with this case couldn't drag me that low...

[Barky]

Even my fascination with this case couldn't drag me that low...

 

Unfortunately they are the ones giving the most sane accounting of the incident. MSNBC is too into one-upping other journalists and sensationalizing everything. And, Rita's voice truly disturbs me, LOL.

[EBFURR]

I don't believe the identity of the third missing person has been revealed.

 

I remember thinking Greta was trying to get Marie to say it was Josh who was in the office with Jennifer but I was never clear as to how he came to be there in the first place. I thought he had just "showed up" but that was just my impression.

 

Barky, I am on the same page. My take on the conversation was that Josh heard the Smiths being paged and went down to "explain". Suspicious, or just dumb, I honestly can't decide.

 

FC, you know, I am off and on about my impressions of Jen's involvement. I tend to think she had no direct involvement, but I just can't help thinking she knows something and may be implicated in some indirect way. If she is not covering for herself, maybe someone else. As has been said before, it is so hard to figure what is motivating JHS and the parents at this point.

[DroopySails]

So how do you get to refuse to speak with the FBI? I think if you say you will do so only with your attorney and then get one. They will have to speak with them sooner or later is my guess.

 

PS Thanks for the invite!

 

You can refuse to speak to ANY law authority, from your local police officer to the FBI. This is yet another basic right few Americans even know they have (and no doubt won't mind giving away, if recent depressing events are any indication). It's just not in your best interest to exercise it most of the time, as it doesn't prevent them from making life quite difficult for you by repeatedly visiting you, pressuring you, and holding you to the extent provided by law without an actual charge.

 

As for "lawyering up," this is not an unusual reaction and it doesn't necessarily mean guilt on these guys' part. This is a VERY high-profile case, someone is dead, and lots of justice personnel and half the media are running in and out. It's simply prudent to have a lawyer to make sure your rights and best interests are protected during all of this. (That doesn't mean your lawyer should be going on TV every hour to behave like a total idiot. And your lawyer probably should be advising you to speak to the FBI, although not doing so may be a temporary thing while their new counsel gets it together.)

 

Having said that, I can't wait to see how this all turns out. These guys seem to have the missing piece of the puzzle and I'm as curious as anyone else to see what it is...

[FinelyCruising]

Continuing Josh’s version of events, he and the three Russians stumbled George to his cabin on deck 9. When they see there’s no Jennifer, George changes his shirt and they all set out again to find her.

It’s now about 3:45 a.m.. The posee of five heads right to the place that the young people on board know as the after-hours hook-up place.

Greer:

They go to the Jacuzzi in the solarium area. No Jennifer. So it’s 5, 10 minutes there are very short amount of time looking because it’s obvious there’s nobody else there. And then five, ten minutes back to the room which puts them back to the room at about 4:00 a.m.

 

Josh describes a tame ending to the night. He uses George’s bathroom as the Russians tuck in their drunken friend.

Greer:

The other boys put him down on the bed, take his shoes off, leave the room, ‘Goodbye goodbye, let’s go we’re outta here.’ They go down to one of the Russian boys’ rooms, order an incredible amount of room service, room service shows up 4:30, 4:45—with the food. They eat. Josh is back in bed by 5:15 that morning.

 

************************************************

....I think I can figure out that the three others left the room, "Goodbye goodbye, let's go we're outta here" meant Josh was still using the bathroom and left behind.

 

Josh's own attorney leaves him as the last one in the cabin with George.