Eliminate the DSC

[Tatka]

.....because they are making an issue over a non-issue. These compensation programs are the industry standard no matter if the lines marketing department calls it a tip, gratuity or service charge.

It's their opinion, just like you have yours.

 

I for one don't like to subsidize cruises for people who remove tips just to save money.

 

On all lines, not only NCL. I sail with 8 (now 7)

[S.S.Oceanlover]

It's their opinion, just like you have yours.

 

I for one don't like to subsidize cruises for people who remove tips just to save money.

 

On all lines, not only NCL. I sail with 8 (now 7)

How are you subsidizing other peoples cruises when they choose to remove their dsc?

 

Bill

 

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[Tatka]

How are you subsidizing other peoples cruises when they choose to remove their dsc?

 

Bill

 

 

 

Easy. Many of them do this not to “tip in person” or because service was bad (they do it during the first day when quality of service isn’t known yet), but just to save money. Some even brag about it and give advices to others.

 

So they don’t participate in paying for services they’ve received unlike people who don’t remove DSC (or autogratuities on other lines)

[dcruiser50]

Unfortunately, there are many people that believe that they are smarter than others by cheaping out on cruises, and taking advantage of the people who work long and hard hours trying to make their vacation a special time. They don't seem to understand that working in a service industry does not make them your servants. I started this thread for just that reason with the wish that ALL, participate in crews just rewards. Remember what goes around comes around

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Easy. Many of them do this not to “tip in person” or because service was bad (they do it during the first day when quality of service isn’t known yet), but just to save money. Some even brag about it and give advices to others.

 

So they don’t participate in paying for services they’ve received unlike people who don’t remove DSC (or autogratuities on other lines)

I understand all of that. What I don't understand is how you are subsidizing their cruises

 

Bill

 

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[Tatka]

I understand all of that. What I don't understand is how you are subsidizing their cruises

 

Bill

 

 

 

If you don’t want to understand (or admit you understand) I can’t make you. ;)

[S.S.Oceanlover]

If you don’t want to understand (or admit you understand) I can’t make you. ;)

 

 

Please I am not trying to be a smart arse and I would definitely admit it if I understood.

 

I'm trying to see what you are paying extra to subsidize the money withheld from the non tippers or pax who take their DSC's off.

 

NCL is not making you pay anything extra. The people that get hurt when pax do this aren't the fellow pax but the work staff.

 

Bill

[havenfan]

I'm trying to see what you are paying extra to subsidize the money withheld from the non tippers or pax who take their DSC's off.

It's called the Free-rider problem. NCL needs to pay its staff a certain amount or else they will refuse to work. In order to do that, it needs to collect a certain amount of revenue. Whether this is through the cruise fare or through the service charge, it needs to collect the revenue to run its business. When passengers choose not to pay their service charges, NCL doesn't get the revenue to pay their employees. That situation is not sustainable, so NCL will have to either raise the fares or service charges to compensate.

 

NCL is not making you pay anything extra. The people that get hurt when pax do this aren't the fellow pax but the work staff.

Let's do a thought experiment. To keep the math simple, pretend for a moment that the service charge needed to raise the revenue needed to pay the staff an adequate wage is $10ppd, where adequate is defined as enough to keep them from leaving. What do you think would happen if all passengers chose not to pay the service charge? I think that, going forward, NCL would have to raise the cruise fares by $10ppd to make up for the lost revenue, since increasing the service charge wouldn't help at all if no one is paying it anyway.

 

Now let's suppose that, hypothetically, 50% of passengers choose to withhold the service charge. NCL could either raise cruise fares to compensate, or else it could raise the service charge. If it raised the service charge, it would have to double it in order to maintain the same revenue. So those people who continue to pay the service charge would have to pay $20ppd if NCL is to continue to collect enough money to keep its business going. Clearly the people who pay would be subsidizing the ones who do not.

 

I believe the current situation is that only a small percentage of people choose not to pay the service charge. As long as it is a small percentage, then the amount NCL has to raise the service charge for everyone else is also small. But the current service charge is still higher than if everyone paid the same amount.

 

I would prefer that cruise lines collected all their revenue through the fare or else made the service charge mandatory, which amounts to the same thing from the passenger's point of view. However, I would like to see this happen not because it will increase the staff's pay (NCL is a business - it will pay as much as it needs to maximize its profits, no more), or for reasons of social justice, or human dignity, but because it would stop the free-loaders from taking advantage of the rest of us.

Edited September 13, 2018 by havenfan

[Tatka]

Thank you very much for explaining it much better.

 

This is how I feel too. On one hand gratuities are rising, on the other I hear this smartpants talk about removing DSC.

Experienced “removers” teach newbies....

 

As I understand there are only two reasons not to include automatically charged DSC into the fare:

 

1) Possibility to pay lower wages (as workers in many countries don’t pay taxes on money paid as gratuities)

2) Nicer looking cruise fares

 

But I feel that this system has so many loopholes ..

[newmexicoNita]

Plus some here said because XYZ cruise line includes DSC in its cruise fare or treats its employees differently, so should NCL blah blah blah. Why? NCL is NCL, not XYZ. It doesn't matter how others do with their cruise pricing or labor practice. NCL is entitled to run its business the way it wants and reframe from disclosing privileged info to anyone not required by law. You don't have to like it.

Of course I totally agree with you. The exception would be if a policy became industry wide, that would be different.But right now it isn't going to happen.