P&O, Cunard +all Carnival brands changing Amsterdam to Ijmuiden: how to win your case

[daiB]

19 minutes ago, docco said:

Technicalities are indeed important when it comes to legal issues, but the issue at stake here is not the 'classification' of a port - it's a simple question of fact (not law) whether docking takes place, as originally described, in the Port of Amsterdam itself (with its ease of access to the centre) or Ijmuiden, with lengthy bus transfers required and no ease of access to the centre.

 

It's every bit as clearcut as we think - it's a change of port, and it's  dramatically more difficult access to the centre.

Sorry but again not true for many with some walking problems a coach direct to the city is a considerably better option assome have already posted. Also there is an extensive tram system close to the dropping off point, as you have described.

[Harry Peterson]

10 minutes ago, daiB said:

Come on you will contest anything. Have you read all the comments and complaints about not being able to dock. By saying that the company is inventing stories shows up you argument as false and vexatious. 

It happens very occasionally, and only very occasionally.  The same thing happens with many ports.  If it were really a major issue, don't you think they'd have moved to Ijmuiden a long time ago?  Nothing has changed - apart from the 8 Euro charge.

 

Let's just wait and see what they say, shall we?

[sogne]

12 minutes ago, daiB said:

Sorry but again not true for many with some walking problems a coach direct to the city is a considerably better option assome have already posted. Also there is an extensive tram system close to the dropping off point, as you have described.

 

16 minutes ago, docco said:

It will - and my money (and this IS just an opinion) would be on them inventing a ***** and bull story about not being able to access the Port of Amsterdam in all weathers, so they're doing their very best for their poor, long-suffering customers by moving to Ijmuiden, where weather is less of an issue.

 

Notwithstanding the fact that these changes apply to all times of the year, including times when weather is rarely an issue, that the problem doesn't arise that often, and that the weather predicted for 2019/2020 is no different now from when the original arrangements were made and advertised.

 

If they do happen to put that forward, there are those of us who will contest its accuracy, and point out what we all know (opinion again, I'm afraid) is the reality - the 8 Euro charge and a vendetta by Carnival and CLIA against any city that dares to try to levy a charge, even one as small as this per passenger, and even one that already charges a tourist levy to those who stay in hotels.

We booked QV in September 18 7 nights, including Amsterdam well before the TT was announced. Having been on a cruise that failed to get into Amsterdam and only just managed to board a pilot at the Maas for the diversion to Rotterdam I am quite happy to accept this minor alteration. I served for 25 years in a SAR capacity and also have a meterological  qualification. Storms are more frequent in the North Sea and can occur at any time of the year, granted not as much in the summer, although one of my most challenging taskings was in August. Is your cruise in October?

 

 " the weather predicted for 2019/2020" I am not aware of any weather forecast that is available for late this year or indeed next year. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by sogne

[daiB]

18 minutes ago, docco said:

It happens very occasionally, and only very occasionally.  The same thing happens with many ports.  If it were really a major issue, don't you think they'd have moved to Ijmuiden a long time ago?  Nothing has changed - apart from the 8 Euro charge.

 

Let's just wait and see what they say, shall we?

I don’t think 25% + is very occasional at all although you clearly do. That is the number of times the port has been missed over the past few years.

[AmazedByCruising]

16 minutes ago, sogne said:

We booked QV in September 18 7 nights, including Amsterdam well before the TT was announced.

 

The TT was made official in October 2018, but that it would happen was already known in 2017. It can't have been a complete surprise.

[Denarius]

22 hours ago, daiB said:

The list of those not going is increasing. There is another post on here. Princess, Costa and aida

All of which are owned by Carnival.

[Harry Peterson]

28 minutes ago, sogne said:

 

 

 " the weather predicted for 2019/2020" I am not aware of any weather forecast that is available for late this year or indeed next year. 

Exactly. Which is precisely why P&O would be unable to run this argument. Nothing has changed other than the city tax.

[Harry Peterson]

15 minutes ago, daiB said:

I don’t think 25% + is very occasional at all although you clearly do. That is the number of times the port has been missed over the past few years.

Interesting statistics. Are you able to provide a source please?

[terrierjohn]

53 minutes ago, daiB said:

Sorry but again not true for many with some walking problems a coach direct to the city is a considerably better option assome have already posted. Also there is an extensive tram system close to the dropping off point, as you have described.

I have no personal interest in an Amsterdam cruise but I would have thought that shuttling people into the city centre rather than simply walking off would adversely affect you Dai.  AFAIK scooters are not allowed on shuttle buses so you would have no way of getting into Amsterdam from the new port.

[daiB]

13 minutes ago, docco said:

Interesting statistics. Are you able to provide a source please?

Over the past 4/5 years the numbers of cruises to Amsterdam have been quite few 3/4/5 per year. Although this year and the next few years they seem to be increasing them. I can remember 3/4 cruises which have not got in and ours which was delayed 14 hours in leaving. I did not think to keep accurate records. 

[daiB]

3 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I have no personal interest in an Amsterdam cruise but I would have thought that shuttling people into the city centre rather than simply walking off would adversely affect you Dai.  AFAIK scooters are not allowed on shuttle buses so you would have no way of getting into Amsterdam from the new port.

 

Sorry John which kind of buses are you talking about. I have been on shuttles in many ports. Never been refused. 

[Harry Peterson]

20 minutes ago, daiB said:

Over the past 4/5 years the numbers of cruises to Amsterdam have been quite few 3/4/5 per year. Although this year and the next few years they seem to be increasing them. I can remember 3/4 cruises which have not got in and ours which was delayed 14 hours in leaving. I did not think to keep accurate records. 

I do feel that your estimate of more than 25%, though well-meaning, is very much higher than actually happened.

 

I’m sure if it had been as high as that, Amsterdam would have been ditched a long time ago.

[SandraMeyer]

2 hours ago, pete14 said:

 

No help or not, as they made the booking on your behalf, it is their job to handle all aspects of the booking for you. It may be best if you spoke to them again and insisted they sort it out for you. We always book direct with P&O and their customer services have been excellent when we have needed them.

Well - my first (and last) booking with P&O and I've found their CS to be politely hopeless.  I've been told we have to wait 28 days for a response to our complaint - just as we're due to travel. Sorry - for this trip they've been appalling and I wouldn't risk my money on another trip with them.

[Haza]

I can see by some of the comments that this change of port doesn't affect you, as you are probably not even booked on this cruise.

Well i am, and the only reason that i booked it was the stop over in Amsterdam. Which was clearly stated when i booked it in July 2018. To be told of the change of berth 59 days before i travel and surprisingly P&O cut off  to make changes to your booking is 60 days before travel. So yes i am well upset over this.

This is my first cruise with P&O and is not going down too well, if any port etc has to be altered during the cruise i can except that.

I have logged my complaint with ABTA

[Haza]

4 minutes ago, SandraMeyer said:

Well - my first (and last) booking with P&O and I've found their CS to be politely hopeless.  I've been told we have to wait 28 days for a response to our complaint - just as we're due to travel. Sorry - for this trip they've been appalling and I wouldn't risk my money on another trip with them.

Sandra i got my response within 2 days, you can see it in my other posts!

Think ill stick with RC in future 

[daiB]

1 hour ago, docco said:

I do feel that your estimate of more than 25%, though well-meaning, is very much higher than actually happened.

 

I’m sure if it had been as high as that, Amsterdam would have been ditched a long time ago.

No they would move to a port which they could get into

And 25% is correct

[daiB]

1 hour ago, Haza said:

I can see by some of the comments that this change of port doesn't affect you, as you are probably not even booked on this cruise.

Well i am, and the only reason that i booked it was the stop over in Amsterdam. Which was clearly stated when i booked it in July 2018. To be told of the change of berth 59 days before i travel and surprisingly P&O cut off  to make changes to your booking is 60 days before travel. So yes i am well upset over this.

This is my first cruise with P&O and is not going down too well, if any port etc has to be altered during the cruise i can except that.

I have logged my complaint with ABTA

Its all cruises which are affected

 And for some the change is better. 

[Harry Peterson]

8 minutes ago, daiB said:

No they would move to a port which they could get into

And 25% is correct

But they didn’t, did they. Until the passenger tax appeared.

 

Do you have any documentary evidence whatever to support your contention that more than 25% of Amsterdam cruises failed to dock at Amsterdam?

[Harry Peterson]

9 minutes ago, daiB said:

Its all cruises which are affected

 And for some the change is better. 

But for most it’s very substantially worse. A two hour return bus ride with queuing as against a short walk.

[Haza]

43 minutes ago, daiB said:

Its all cruises which are affected

 And for some the change is better. 

I know its all cruises that are affected but i'm only booked on one of them!! (are you booked on one),

As for the change is better for some that maybe the case but looking at the comments i cant see anyone agreeing, only the ones who where affected due to high winds previously.

Like i said this is the only reason i booked this cruise was the overnight in Amsterdam being able to walk back to ship when i wanted to. 

[AlisonB1978]

I had a call from P&O this afternoon following my complaint. They sit behind “we can adjust the dock according to T&C’s”. I had asked by email for clarification about “the operational reasons”. Was told we haven’t been told why. Guest Relations are sympathetic, but have to take the party line. I said we had booked docking “in Amsterdam” and what we’re getting is not that, and the fact that there is a 45 min bus ride each way changes what you can reasonably do in Amsterdam. P&O rep got what we are all saying but they’re not for moving. Doesn’t help them in terms of repeat custom and many of us will remove auto gratuities (while they’re still operational) as the only thing really left in our control. We’ll carry on our complaint as it’s not what we booked. Did find out that they plan last shuttle bus back about 5:30 though which helps us to plan. Such a shame they really don’t value customer service!!

[daiB]

1 hour ago, Haza said:

I know its all cruises that are affected but i'm only booked on one of them!! (are you booked on one),

As for the change is better for some that maybe the case but looking at the comments i cant see anyone agreeing, only the ones who where affected due to high winds previously.

Like i said this is the only reason i booked this cruise was the overnight in Amsterdam being able to walk back to ship when i wanted to. 

Well how would you know if sny one agrees as you clearly have not read the full thread. Twice I have said we are on a cruise to Amsterdam. 

[daiB]

33 minutes ago, AlisonB1978 said:

I had a call from P&O this afternoon following my complaint. They sit behind “we can adjust the dock according to T&C’s”. I had asked by email for clarification about “the operational reasons”. Was told we haven’t been told why. Guest Relations are sympathetic, but have to take the party line. I said we had booked docking “in Amsterdam” and what we’re getting is not that, and the fact that there is a 45 min bus ride each way changes what you can reasonably do in Amsterdam. P&O rep got what we are all saying but they’re not for moving. Doesn’t help them in terms of repeat custom and many of us will remove auto gratuities (while they’re still operational) as the only thing really left in our control. We’ll carry on our complaint as it’s not what we booked. Did find out that they plan last shuttle bus back about 5:30 though which helps us to plan. Such a shame they really don’t value customer service!!

They have said they will dock sooner and leave later so you will have the same time or more in Amsterdam.

[Haza]

7 minutes ago, daiB said:

Well how would you know if sny one agrees as you clearly have not read the full thread. Twice I have said we are on a cruise to Amsterdam. 

Sorry for missing some of your posts, but from what I can see is you won't see a bad word said against p&o.

If your happy to wait in a que for a coach with a possible 3k other passengers for a 40 + minutes transfer each way and not be able to get on and of the ship when you want thats not what I booked this trip for. 

 

[daiB]

18 minutes ago, Haza said:

Sorry for missing some of your posts, but from what I can see is you won't see a bad word said against p&o.

If your happy to wait in a que for a coach with a possible 3k other passengers for a 40 + minutes transfer each way and not be able to get on and of the ship when you want thats not what I booked this trip for. 

 

If you look at my first post i was pointing out that the situation was not as clear cut as was being posted about.

 

BTW it is all of the Carnival Cruise lines doing this not just P&O. So perhaps you have the wrong target.