Art Auction dilema!!

[TrinaLC]

But there is a precendent. A court just ordered Austria to return $300 dollars worth of art to a family in California who are Holocaust survivers.

 

The burden of proof would be on the auction house. My apologies.

 

That is entirely different. Here the auction was being done by the painting owner. There the auction house was an intermediary. And the painting was STOLEN. You can't acquire good title to stolen property, even in good faith.

[TrinaLC]

Well Park West called me today to tell me that they would be picking up the painting. Of course I told them no. The lady said that on line 19 of the invoice I received states "Any mistakes made in invoicing will be corrected upon discovery, and buyer shall be obligated and agrees to immediately remit and additional amount due."

 

 

You are correct, this is not an invoice mistake. Your invoice is correct.

 

I agree you probably won't want to hire a lawyer over this - unless you get it appraised and it is worth in the tens of thousands. But acting on your own, contacting Carnival, your state Attorney General, local media, you should be able to at least force a good settlement and at best keep it.

[GinaDucey]

I would not give this painting up for any reason what so ever!

 

Park West Receipt - Happens to be in my hand right now!

 

Under Additional Terms & Conditions of Sale

 

Line 1) All sales are final.

 

Line 11) All lots carried off the ship are accepted by purchaser in "AS IS" condition.

 

Under Appraisals

 

Line 2) The Park West appraisal is soley our opinion of fair market value. This is the price a willing buyer will pay to a willing seller for the same artwork with neither being under a compulsion to buy or sell. We do not rely on third party auction prices to arrive at the appraised value. We do not issue refunds if another appraiser has a different opinion that ours. Park West assumes no liability or responsibility for errors or omissions in connection with its appraised value. We do not assume any liability for (i) insurance losses, or (ii) claims for refunds or money damages; based on a claim that our appraised value is too high, too low or otherwise inaccurate.

 

Well they made a big mistake and under appraised this painting and they say they are not responsible for any refunds due to that error. You bought a painting and all sales are final and you carried it off the ship so it falls under the "AS IS" clause.

 

Keep this painting and fight them! Do not let them bully you into giving it back!

[D4]

This thread still fascinates me.

 

It is ridiculous that Park West is taking this approach. If anything, they should pay you additional money to take your picture with your painting and put it on posters on ships. Something like: "This passenger purchased this painting for $150 and found out when they got home that it was actually worth more than $5,000!!! Come to the art auction at 2:00."

 

That would draw more people to their auctions hoping they too might buy a piece that also turns out to be much more valuable than what they paid!

[Timmys_mom]

Okay, She said that the auctioneer made a mistake and shouldn't have put that piece up for auction at that price of $150.

I think this says it all. The auctioneer (a Park West representative) placed the painting in question up for bid starting at $150. She bid on it, won it, paid for it and carried it off the ship.

 

If Park West can find a clause that says if they sell the wrong painting by mistake, they get it back, they might have a let to stand on. But since that is doubtful.....my guess is that she has a great painting to hang on her wall.

 

I went to the auctions on the Miracle but was too distracted to consider purchasing anything that I was interested in. I cruise again on the Glory in January - I won't be setting foot in any of the auctions (even for the free champagne). This is a great story that I will be sure to spread around.

[HollyGoheavy]

Be sure to mention to PW that the bad press they're getting on the CC boards is bound to impact future auctions they have. My parents ALWAYS spend some cash on the art auctions and this next cruise I had budgeted some money to have available for the auction. Now neither my parents nor I will be bidding, however we might just be discussing this issue that " a friend of mine had with the art auction company" while we sit and sip champagne.

[arlanamay]

You all don't know how much it means to me to have your support. I'm not budging unless a judge or someone of authority tells me to fork it over.

[Hot Hockett]

I think Park West or whatever is screwed up in the head. They are trying to take advantage of you and take your painting away. pshhh, you just won like $5000 dollars. I say, sell it back to them for like $7000. that gets you like 3 cruises= One heck of a deal. Please keep us updated

[TrinaLC]

You all don't know how much it means to me to have your support. I'm not budging unless a judge or someone of authority tells me to fork it over.

 

 

you go girl!

[starketcher]

Heck yeah...sell it back to them!! They are always telling you what a good deal their "art" is priced at. Since you are not in the art auction business and cannot represent artists nor buy at large quantities, then I would say your selling price would be much much higher than their quote!:D

[Jocia]

You all don't know how much it means to me to have your support. I'm not budging unless a judge or someone of authority tells me to fork it over.

You hit a better jackpot than most people in the casino!! Don't give up the ship1!! But now I'm curious as to what this piece of art LOOKS like! :-)

[Texas_Diver]

Would it be possible to just STOP answering their phone calls?

 

D.

[ala-kat]

Just have to jump in on this. Everything you have done from what I've read has been in good faith. Any mistake that was made was not yours, and it is on the heads of those that did make the mistake. Keep your painting, continue on getting the COA, and just enjoy.

[sea_u_onboard]

Let me start by saying that everyone is correct - don't let them bully you into giving it back.

 

I really enjoyed this thread and have to relate my own Park West story - it's not as dramatic as this - but still shows that once a piece is bid on it is up and nothing can stop the bidding - all sales are final - I think they even go over this several times.

 

My DH and I were at an auction on the Inspiration. I wasn't felling well and was half asleep during most of the auction. It was getting towards the end and the auctioneer placed a piece on the eisle and explained about the work. He asked, "What should we start the bid at?" and a woman across the room yelled "FIVE DOLLARS". He responded $5 - that's barely a Happy Meal - you could tell he was kicking himself for asking. Someone bid and he was held to selling that piece. Next came $10, then $15, then $20. It gets to $30.00 and no one is bidding. My DH has been talking the whole time and I'm half looking. He says he likes the shadowing and just as the auctioneers is about to say sold I bid $35.00 on it. I won and it cost me $30 to have it shipped home. It is a Seriolithograph by Douglas K Gifford, Seaside Inn. http://islandstudio.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=14&products_id=201&osCsid=a516bd3df607c96dc0f3b77c2ae53e1c (picture doesn't do it justice - much nicer in person).

 

Later in the week they were having the bargain sale (in the cabin that they store the art) and we went to see what they had. We were looking for other things by the same artist. We found one (don't remember the name) and ask how much. He told us $75.00 - we realised that he didn't recognize us so we asked about the one we bought. He looks it up and says, "Well I sold one for $35 this week, but you're not getting it for that!" He quoted $75 for that one also.

 

I left feeling I really got a bargin - but boy was I wrong. Hang on to it and don't let it go. All sales are final and it's not your fault that the staff messed up. I believe that even if they noticed it after bidding started they were bond by the bid and could not retract the offering. At least not this late in the game. Maybe while you were still on the ship.

 

Good Luck - Let us know what happened and tell your DH to lighten up.

[G&L in WPG]

You paid for and own the painting that you bid on. If not, I will certainly be willing to stand up at the next art audtion I attend on the Spirit and warn people (loudly) that they may be charged more than they bid at a later date, if Park West feels they did not get enough money or they made a mistake. Anyone else care to join the effort, we are several thousand strong!

[sea_u_onboard]

You paid for and own the painting that you bid on. If not, I will certainly be willing to stand up at the next art audtion I attend on the Spirit and warn people (loudly) that they may be charged more than they bid at a later date, if Park West feels they did not get enough money or they made a mistake. Anyone else care to join the effort, we are several thousand strong!

WOW! I can just imagine.

 

- - - - - - - - - - -

 

Have you thought about contacting a local news agency? Newspaper, TV?

[cruisy]

I thought the typical "junque" art they sold was sent directly to your home. What caused them to sell this as the usual cheap stuff, but send it home with her as an "as is" item. I bet they realized they goofed and wanted to get their erroneous sale out of there before they got fired... Also, if this is one of the more expensive items, assuming a description mix-up, did they sell some piece of cr*p to someone as a one-of-a-kind $5000 item? OR did they claim it with insurance as a loss.

 

Don't give it to them. Also don't send them any more pictures, it's your item now, and they are fishing for some sort of proof/documentation to take it from you.

[obx_fintoo]

This thread has facsinated me from the start and I eagerly await each new post from the OP. Hold on to it girl!!!

 

However, after reading so many folks say they'll never attend an auction now, I have to chime in. Many of the ships are now running the auctions in-house and no longer using Park West. You can find this out before attending the auctions. I have been on several cruises over the last 11 years and I am a former art student and current dabbler. I always wanted to go to the auctions (and enjoy the free champagne!:D ) but when it used to be Park West, I rarely stayed for more than 15 minutes. Just didn't enjoy the auctionneers' manners.

 

On the last 2 cruises I've been on the Celebration, the art auctions were done by a Carnival employee. I found all 3 of them (2 on first cruise, 1 on second) to be fun, informative, and LOW pressure. I have won some prints and purchased some and have been very pleased with my pieces. All I'm saying is, ban Park West if you choose. (I did before this thread!) But please give the Carnival one's a chance if you are interested in art.

 

OK, off the soapbox and ready for another update!! Thanks for listening!

[sea_u_onboard]

I thought the typical "junque" art they sold was sent directly to your home. What caused them to sell this as the usual cheap stuff, but send it home with her as an "as is" item.

Some items are sold as is in the frame. I always assumed that these were items that really weren't selling anymore and they don't want the expense of sending it back to the home location and then storing it - so they sell it as is and the purchaser has to take it off the ship. Sometimes the frmae itself is worth the cost of the piece. Frames are very expensive.

[obx_fintoo]

Some items are sold as is in the frame. I always assumed that these were items that really weren't selling anymore and they don't want the expense of sending it back to the home location and then storing it - so they sell it as is and the purchaser has to take it off the ship. Sometimes the frmae itself is worth the cost of the piece. Frames are very expensive.

 

Sometimes this is correct, but the last auctionneer I had explained that a good bit of the time, the prints sold as "as is" were the last of a particular peice they had in stock (i.e. no more lithos/serios in the gallery back home). They had already been framed, and as they are moved about so much on board, the frames aren't always in the best condition.

[GayleR]

I will certainly be willing to stand up at the next art audtion I attend on the Spirit and warn people (loudly) that they may be charged more than they bid at a later date, if Park West feels they did not get enough money or they made a mistake. Anyone else care to join the effort, we are several thousand strong!

 

We will be on the Conquest in less than 3 weeks and I usually don't attend the auctions, but I think I'll have to this cruise. If it is a Park West auction, I will do the same as G&L!

 

 

Arlanamay,

Stand your ground. That is your property! I would do as everyone has suggested, get some support from anyone and everyone you can (Atty. General would be all over this.) If Park West calls again, speak only to the President or Owner. Do not speak to anyone else with a fancy title. I worked in customer service for years and although our "Assistant to the President" usually did a good job in handling customer issues, he was not the President. Usually when you speak to the "head honcho" you get what you want, especially in your case.....YOU ARE RIGHT and Park West is WRONG. Hang in there and stand firm!

[arlanamay]

I think I'm going to start writing down my conversations with Jessie at Park West. I know she is doing what her supervisors told her but when I feel like my case is weak I think about her calling last week stating that I didn't need to send the painting back but send photos so they could identify it and send me the right COA. I know now it was a ploy. Boy oh boy I wish I had never called them in the first place. An earlier post is possibly correct in that they either have or would have sold the lithograph they thought they were selling for a very high price.

[cruiselover**]

I have been following this thread and I agree with other members who have said that it is one of the most interesting posts yet!

 

To the original poster: I also believe you should definitely keep the painting. How dare Park West try to have you return it! It was their mistake and they should just chalk it up to a loss. I am so happy for you that you got a bargain. If you cannot obtain the certificate of authenticity, so be it. No big deal at this point. Down the road, you can have someone else appraise it. DO NOT LET THEM BULLY YOU! Keep your painting and savor the fact you are one of only a handful that ever got a great deal! Remember, we at Cruise Critic are all behind you on this.

[sea_u_onboard]

Sometimes this is correct, but the last auctionneer I had explained that a good bit of the time, the prints sold as "as is" were the last of a particular peice they had in stock (i.e. no more lithos/serios in the gallery back home). They had already been framed, and as they are moved about so much on board, the frames aren't always in the best condition.

Thanks for clarifying.

[gkrnjlr]

We didn't go to the art auction and were considering going to the one on our next cruise, but wow....it's really a shame the way that they're handling this.

 

I hope that it doesn't end up going to court, but I'd definitely fight for what you've paid for and been given in exchange!

 

Keep us posted, please!