Art Auction dilema!!

[songanddance]

my goodness how far back on the boards this got in such a short time. Bust board. Please keep us informed about this painting and what the auction company tries to do about it. Don't think they have a leg to stand on. Probably not the auctioneer that is in trouble but whoever was supposed to make the "switch" in the packing room after the auction was over that is no longer sailing the seven seas right now.

[Buffy2323]

Very intriguing thread. I can't wait to hear the outcome, please keep us posted on what you find out. I'd NEVER be so lucky as you, way to go!!!

[denisey]

I was telling my hubby this story! (He still won't let me buy art on board!) His suggestion was to ask around on the board or check the roll call for this cruise and see if you can find any witnesses. I don't think it will come to the point where you would need them, but it would be a whole lot easier to find them now, just in case.

 

Another thought is to check with some galleries in your area, just to get their read on whether it is an original or not. That will let you know if you should really go to the trouble to get an appraisal or not. I know my regular art dealer talks to people about what they have (Unfortunately, they usually think they have an undiscovered Picaso and it's not) His advice is to buy what you like, and from your tale you did, so you are ahead no matter what the picture is really worth!

 

Denise

[BlueHerons]

Let me explain something that may help clear up your situation.

 

Firstly, there really isn't any such thing as a seriolithograph.

 

It is a made up catch all phrase that encompasses a reproduction.

 

There are basically two kinds of reproductions; lithographs and seriographs.

 

Lithographs are: posters. Nothing more and nothing less. They may or may not be numbered. May or may not be signed by the artist.

 

Seriographs are different in that they are silk screen reproductions of an artists orgininal and almost always done on a limited basis. What happens is that each color is pulled through a screen onto the paper creating a layered effect. It isn't uncommon for a seriograph to have 20-30 pulls and they are worth a lot more money. Usually signed by the artist.

 

If an artist is in big enough demand that a seriograph is made of the artists painting, chances are the real painting is worth a lot of money.

 

I honestly think it is highly unlikely that Park South would screw up that badly and send you an original painting. It could happen but for insurance reasons I doubt this. I doubt they have the original.

 

If on the off chance they did, and the painting is worth a lot of money, don't count on keeping the painting. The insurance company would be who you would be fighting in court and they have the time, money, and resources to bankrupt you while trying to keep the painting.

 

Also, a judge would not look to highly on you trying to keep something that was given to you by mistake.

 

In all honesty, it sounds to me like you have a seriograph.

[jshawnh]

OK, I know a little bit about art, and Carnival is ripping people off big time with their art auctions, but hey, some people feel important when they spend $5,000.00 on a $50.00 reproduction litho that you could get at a poster store. The paintings that are shipped to you are sent from a wearhouse full of prints. They outright lie to you when they say they are too large to take with you. If They made a "mistake" and actually gave you what you thopught you were bidding on, then keep it. Misleading people is the same as stealing in my book. I love Carnival, but now avoid the art auctions like the plague, unless its to get a kick out of seeing people pay a lot of money for junk.

[BlueHerons]

OK, I know a little bit about art, and Carnival is ripping people off big time with their art auctions, but hey, some people feel important when they spend $5,000.00 on a $50.00 reproduction litho that you could get at a poster store. .

 

Very true.

[songanddance]

[

 

If on the off chance they did, and the painting is worth a lot of money, don't count on keeping the painting. The insurance company would be who you would be fighting in court and they have the time, money, and resources to bankrupt you while trying to keep the painting.

 

Also, a judge would not look to highly on you trying to keep something that was given to you by mistake.

 

In all honesty, it sounds to me like you have a seriograph.

 

You could have a seriograph and that would still put you ahead of the game as the prints by this artist appear to sell for around $400 each.

 

However if you do have the original, you have an excellent chance of keeping it. Remember this was an auction and if the auctioneer held up the original and that is what you bid on then that is what you bought. The error may have been made in holding up the original but that is not your fault and what is held up and gaveled down to the winning bidder is what that bidder is entitled to. At least in all 50 states in the United States. On the high seas that may be different but since there are no courts on the high seas the matter would have to be brought on land somewhere and then it falls under the jurisdiction of that state.

 

As for insurance companies having money to bury you, the item is not that totally valuable that they would really bother. Remember an insurance company attorney will not break a sweat for less than $10 - $20,000 so not to get concerned.

 

Besides the negative publicity that would get around the cruise industry of the auction house trying to renig on a sale would basically sink their ship in very short order.

[jshawnh]

Let me explain something that may help clear up your situation.

 

 

 

Lithographs are: posters. Nothing more and nothing less. They may or may not be numbered. May or may not be signed by the artist.

 

.

You are not quite correct my knowledgable friend. A true lithograph is produced by printing in layers, one color at a time. Seriograph is a fancy word for silk screen printing, which is also done in layers, but does produce the texture you mentioned.

 

FYI: prints, any type, are usually if not always numbered and signed in pencil by the artist ie. 5/75 etc. If your painting is not numbered, but is signed, it would be a very good assumption that it is an original, since a lot of watercolor artists do sign their originals with pencil. A watercolor would not be a good candidate for seriography, since the paint usually absorbs into the paper, and the textured effect would not be desirable.

[BlueHerons]

[

 

.

 

However if you do have the original, you have an excellent chance of keeping it. Remember this was an auction and if the auctioneer held up the original and that is what you bid on then that is what you bought. The error may have been made in holding up the original but that is not your fault and what is held up and gaveled down to the winning bidder is what that bidder is entitled to. At least in all 50 states in the United States. On the high seas that may be different but since there are no courts on the high seas the matter would have to be brought on land somewhere and then it falls under the jurisdiction of that state.

 

As for insurance companies having money to bury you, the item is not that totally valuable that they would really bother. Remember an insurance company attorney will not break a sweat for less than $10 - $20,000 so not to get concerned.

 

.

 

A judge would look very hard at the intent of the auction house and the burden of proof would not be on the auction house but the little guy.

 

An insurance company would indeed go after the original because they would not want to set precendent.

 

You are correct they usually will not go to court for less than the amount you listed but in this case they have much more to lose than money.

[BlueHerons]

You are not quite correct my knowledgable friend. A true lithograph is produced by printing in layers, one color at a time. Seriograph is a fancy word for silk screen printing, which is also done in layers, but does produce the texture you mentioned.

 

.

 

Forgive my cliff notes. A true lithograph has the image carved onto a metal or wooden template and stamps out the print. However, modern science has much easier ways to produce lithographs.

[crusinpsychRN]

This is the most interesting thread I've read in a long time!

[cheshyrkat]

I find this very interesting, too. I certainly hope OP keeps us updated on the outcomes!!

[arlanamay]

They called me this morning and told me they understood why I didn't want to send it to them and that was okay. They did ask if I would take pictures of it and give as many details as possible so they could get the right paper work to me. They were especially interested in the pencil marks along the sides. I obliged and sent them some photos. I'm trying to be trusting in they mean what they say. I did take down the painting and looked on the back to find a sticker that had the correct name and painting title. I didn't send them that and I don't know why. My husband thinks I'm nuts and paranoid and should send them the number so they can find what I have immediately. I think some people are under the impression I took a piece I didn't bid on and I'm trying to pull something. That's not case. Keep you posted.

[Iamthesea]

Not me! I think you absolutely have the right to keep what you saw and bid on. Sounds like it's going to be OK.;)

[gr81]

I think some people are under the impression I took a piece I didn't bid on and I'm trying to pull something. That's not case. Keep you posted.

 

No no no. They may have given you something they didnt intend to, but you didn't TAKE anything. From the sound of it tho, had you gotten a 'graph, you may have been thinking you didnt get what you bid on tho.

 

 

Hope to hear (read) that it all works out for ya.

[arlanamay]

No no no. They may have given you something they didnt intend to, but you didn't TAKE anything. From the sound of it tho, had you gotten a 'graph, you may have been thinking you didnt get what you bid on tho.

 

 

Hope to hear (read) that it all works out for ya.

 

Thanks. I really didn't know if my piece was a copy to be honest but I guessed it would be. I also thought to myself that I've seen original works of art in galleries for under $1000 and they were trying to get rid of the art I was bidding on. I just remember when I got it home and tore the paper off and started looking at it I thought to myself man this looks like a real painting. I know I'm stressing the pencil marks but I wouldn't think that those would be left in when they go to make plates for the seriograph or lithograph which ever. After looking at the sticker today I can't see how they messed it up there. The numbers on mine and the numbers they have for the print are very different. I don't think they pull up art work according to artist do any of you. They have someone read off a number and the auctioneer types it into his laptop.

[D4]

The suspense! Is anybody else imagining this in a TV crime show? I can picture this in "Law & Order Criminal Intent" where that amazingly astute detective ends up discovering that the cruise ship auctioneer tracked down a passenger down in their hometown to get back a painting they erroneously sold for way too little while on the cruise? And the auctioneer's real intent was to sell this awesome original artwork for a lowball price, but it was supposed to be sold to an accomplice that was also a passenger on the cruise? However, you somehow messed up their plan and won the auction.

 

Please don't be offended by my comments. It's just very refreshing not to have a thread about jeans, saving deck chairs, tipping, and what to pack!

 

I sincerely hope you have a painting that is much more valuable than what you paid. I don't see how they could take it from you -- it's not like you swapped it for a different one than what you bid on. I don't see how it's any different than if you went to Walmart and saw the same one for $9.99 and complained. Carnival sure wouldn't give you the difference back!

[arlanamay]

The suspense! Is anybody else imagining this in a TV crime show? I can picture this in "Law & Order Criminal Intent" where that amazingly astute detective ends up discovering that the cruise ship auctioneer tracked down a passenger down in their hometown to get back a painting they erroneously sold for way too little while on the cruise? And the auctioneer's real intent was to sell this awesome original artwork for a lowball price, but it was supposed to be sold to an accomplice that was also a passenger on the cruise? However, you somehow messed up their plan and won the auction.

 

Please don't be offended by my comments. It's just very refreshing not to have a thread about jeans, saving deck chairs, tipping, and what to pack!

 

I sincerely hope you have a painting that is much more valuable than what you paid. I don't see how they could take it from you -- it's not like you swapped it for a different one than what you bid on. I don't see how it's any different than if you went to Walmart and saw the same one for $9.99 and complained. Carnival sure wouldn't give you the difference back!

 

LOL!! Of course I'm not offended.

[Eliot Ness]

The suspense! Is anybody else imagining this in a TV crime show?.........but it was supposed to be sold to an accomplice that was also a passenger on the cruise? However, you somehow messed up their plan and won the auction.

I would like to think that the accomplice was somehow distracted while up on the F-deck.

 

At first I thought this was going to be a boring thread, but it is very fascinating and I hope arlanamay keeps us updated!

 

John

[andnickali]

I was looking for this thread- it must have gotten way back over the last day, I'm glad it was at the top tonight because I have wondered if the buyer heard from the seller. I can't wait to find out how much the painting is worth- I'm not a big art buyer, mostly because I spend all of my money cruising!!!!!! I've only done the art auction once (free drinks can bring anybody in from the sun) but didn't buy anything- I just would not know if I was getting a good deal, same reason I don't buy jewlery on the ship/islands, just don't know enough about it!

[voyagerfl]

I probably would have done the same thing.

 

I have to disagree a bit with this statement. I purchased a middle of the road DVD player for a Christmas present. I had been looking at a higher end brand (about $200 more!) I decided it was too much and paid the price for the middle line. The folks at Circuit City loaded the player into the back of my SUV. Not until I got home, did I realize that the clerk had given me the higher end DVD player. Once I saw the mistake, I took the player back. You should have seen the look on their faces when I tried to exchange it for the other model when I could have kept it.

 

Honesty is always the best policy, but in the case of the painting, the OP bid on this particular painting and took home what she had won.

 

But She did get the exact one she bid on ! :)

[GranysT]

Wow, I've never attended an art auction,but this is very interesting. Please DO find out what kind of painting this is,and let all of us know. Can't wait to hear.

[jenjens1023]

The suspense! Is anybody else imagining this in a TV crime show? I can picture this in "Law & Order Criminal Intent" where that amazingly astute detective ends up discovering that the cruise ship auctioneer tracked down a passenger down in their hometown to get back a painting they erroneously sold for way too little while on the cruise? And the auctioneer's real intent was to sell this awesome original artwork for a lowball price, but it was supposed to be sold to an accomplice that was also a passenger on the cruise? However, you somehow messed up their plan and won the auction.

 

Or maybe it's covering an original Rembrandt. Or maybe the back, when soaked in lemon juice and heated, will show a map to the Knights Templar's hidden treasure! Your'e right, there's a TV show here--or maybe a movie of the week!

[mc'smom]

Good luck with your painting,

 

 

I can just imagine how many people will attend these auctions out of curiosity now...

 

Park West should thank you for the publicity.... :)

[Catrin]

wow... what an interesting thread!

 

I never thought I would come on Cruise Critic for Art Lessons!!! ;)

 

I stumbled on an Art Auction in November, on the Legend. At five cruises, I had never been to one.... I was shocked with the packed house and the money flowing on Art!

 

Good Luck to you! First, I hope that you really LIKE it! .... and most of all, good for you by being so upfront about it to Park West... you could have said NOTHING at all.......

Catrin