A plea for an April 2024 eclipse cruise

[mike&elena]

7 hours ago, scottsol said:

The length of daylight on April 8 is about 12 hours 26 minutes. Solar noon (when the sun reaches its zenith) occurs close to half way between sunrise and sunset. So we add 6 hours 13 minutes to 6:50 and solar noon should be at a little after 1, local time.

 

The reason why the zenith is so far off from 12:00 is that by April 8 Mazatlan is observing day light saving time.

I hadn't considered that daylight savings time will be starting then.  The best situation for everyone would be to be at sea, especially with the possible complication of a cloudy day in Mazatlan.  Let's hope that Princess does the right thing!

[help32250]

16 hours ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

I was in Mazatlan April 13, 2022 on a Princess cruise. Not my first time either. This photo shows that port side faced the port. This was taken at 6 pm. 

 

 

HaveDogWillTravel, scottsol, and mike&elena ---

Sorry but I am just now getting back into the Cruise Critic site and am having more than just a bit of difficulty with it.  So if you could be so kind, cut me just a bit of slack while I do.  Thanks.

 

I especially appreciated Have Dog's and scottsol's comments ... but the only thing I could reference, per my initial post, was a picture I saw of the Princess that was posted on the TripAdvisor site on the Observatorio 1873, which I subsequently posted.  I also said that "in the interest of full disclosure" it depended on where the ship would exactly be docked that day and that the location could change.  The real arbiter is the Ship's Captain who will dock it wherever he wants given the clearance he obtains.  So your ability to see it from either the Port or Starboard side of the ship is still up in the air.  It's been a long time since I was in Mazatlan.  My bad.  So I would contend that none of us will know for sure until we are docked.  I talked with my inside person at Princess this AM and even he could not say for sure.  So stay tuned.

 

To mike&elena ... Re the date, time, and relative position in the sky though, my information was directly from "timeanddate".  To be precise, the link to that information is: 

 https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/in/mexico/mazatlan

The attached picture is what THEY show.  It seems to me they know better than the rest of us.

 

Re the possibility of the Discovery Princess docking, dropping some passenger off, and then going out again to sea to see if they could find the closest site to see the Eclipse with the best off-shore weather, I highly doubt that from cost and logistical perspectives.  To be reasonable, it's not like your local restaurant where you can drop off your friends, park your car, and then come back at whim.  It is, after all, a 1083 foot long ship!  But I asked Princess about that too and will let you know what I hear.

 

 

[mike&elena]

18 hours ago, help32250 said:

HaveDogWillTravel, scottsol, and mike&elena ---

Sorry but I am just now getting back into the Cruise Critic site and am having more than just a bit of difficulty with it.  So if you could be so kind, cut me just a bit of slack while I do.  Thanks.

 

I especially appreciated Have Dog's and scottsol's comments ... but the only thing I could reference, per my initial post, was a picture I saw of the Princess that was posted on the TripAdvisor site on the Observatorio 1873, which I subsequently posted.  I also said that "in the interest of full disclosure" it depended on where the ship would exactly be docked that day and that the location could change.  The real arbiter is the Ship's Captain who will dock it wherever he wants given the clearance he obtains.  So your ability to see it from either the Port or Starboard side of the ship is still up in the air.  It's been a long time since I was in Mazatlan.  My bad.  So I would contend that none of us will know for sure until we are docked.  I talked with my inside person at Princess this AM and even he could not say for sure.  So stay tuned.

 

To mike&elena ... Re the date, time, and relative position in the sky though, my information was directly from "timeanddate".  To be precise, the link to that information is: 

 https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/in/mexico/mazatlan

The attached picture is what THEY show.  It seems to me they know better than the rest of us.

 

Re the possibility of the Discovery Princess docking, dropping some passenger off, and then going out again to sea to see if they could find the closest site to see the Eclipse with the best off-shore weather, I highly doubt that from cost and logistical perspectives.  To be reasonable, it's not like your local restaurant where you can drop off your friends, park your car, and then come back at whim.  It is, after all, a 1083 foot long ship!  But I asked Princess about that too and will let you know what I hear.

 

 

Thanks for the excellent information!  According to another CC post, a Carnival ship did indeed drop off passengers in port and head out to sea to view an eclipse in the recent past.  Since Carnival and Princess are both part of the same corporate family, this precedent might prevail on our cruise.  Looking forward to hearing what you learn from your Princess insider.

[help32250]

On 9/16/2022 at 9:37 PM, scottsol said:

Your coordinate graphic is at the wrong berth. See the included pic.

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by help32250
Whoops. Pressed the enter key too soon.

[help32250]

scottsol --- Good catch of another possibile location of where The Princess will be docked!  But whether it is docked there or close to it, the (absolute) direction and elevation of the Total Solar Eclipse will be the same (as shown in the timeanddate.com insert).

So I pulled another pic off of Google Maps and re-drew my original rendition.  Essentially the only thing that changes is that instead of looking LEFT from your Balcony on the Port Side of the ship (IF it is docked as originally shown in this rendition), you will be looking RIGHT.  Obviously, if the ship is docked in the opposite direction, adjust accordingly.

Thanks for your attention to this detail.

[scottsol]

On 9/21/2022 at 1:48 PM, help32250 said:

scottsol --- Good catch of another possibile location of where The Princess will be docked!  But whether it is docked there or close to it, the (absolute) direction and elevation of the Total Solar Eclipse will be the same (as shown in the timeanddate.com insert).

So I pulled another pic off of Google Maps and re-drew my original rendition.  Essentially the only thing that changes is that instead of looking LEFT from your Balcony on the Port Side of the ship (IF it is docked as originally shown in this rendition), you will be looking RIGHT.  Obviously, if the ship is docked in the opposite direction, adjust accordingly.

Thanks for your attention to this detail.

It is, of course, not important, but the ship in my picture is the Golden Princess with a length of 950 feet. The Navigator Princess is 1180 feet long and will not fit in the berths you’ve shown.

 

The orientation in my picture seems to be the most common but there has been at least one Princess docking with the ship facing north.

[Sea Hag]

On 9/18/2022 at 9:17 AM, mike&elena said:

Thanks for the excellent information!  According to another CC post, a Carnival ship did indeed drop off passengers in port and head out to sea to view an eclipse in the recent past.  Since Carnival and Princess are both part of the same corporate family, this precedent might prevail on our cruise.  Looking forward to hearing what you learn from your Princess insider.

I was on the Carnival Jubilee in 1991, and that's what they did for that eclipse. We had a wonderful viewing out at sea.

[san diego sue]

Just in Mazatlan on another cruise line two weeks go. It was docked in the usual port location  as Princess and my cabin on port side was not against the dock but facing towards the water.

[scottsol]

 

Holland added an eclipse cruise. Unlike Princess the ship will be at sea during the eclipse. On the other hand it’s a twenty year old vessel.

https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/find-a-cruise/M4R14A/X423.html

[marne-c]

The OP here…  At last, there now are two itineraries that will view the 8 April 2024 total eclipse from the water.  They’re on HAL.  (See attached screenshot.)

 

DW and I booked the 14-day Mexico cruise round-trip San Diego, departing 30 March 2024.  The day of the eclipse, the ship (Zaandam) will hang out in the Pacific until the eclipse ends, then dock in Mazatlan mid-afternoon.

 

—Marne

 

 

[disneyochem]

I'm booked on both the Princess cruise and the 14 Mexican Riviera cruise on HAL.  Both have minimal refundable deposits.  Hubby really likes the newer ships (just got off the Enchanted and he loved it!).  The HAL ship is small (1500 max) and older but we get a lot more for the money-- 4 more cruising days, $525 OBC (promotional, loyalty, shareholders), 2 excursion credits per person AND the ship being out to sea during the eclipse!

 

Either way, we'll be on a solar eclipse cruise!

[billco]

17 minutes ago, disneyochem said:

I'm booked on both the Princess cruise and the 14 Mexican Riviera cruise on HAL.  Both have minimal refundable deposits.  Hubby really likes the newer ships (just got off the Enchanted and he loved it!).  The HAL ship is small (1500 max) and older but we get a lot more for the money-- 4 more cruising days, $525 OBC (promotional, loyalty, shareholders), 2 excursion credits per person AND the ship being out to sea during the eclipse!

 

Either way, we'll be on a solar eclipse cruise!

Am I correct that a Have It All Vista Suite on the HAL ship will cost $12,000 as opposed to $3700 for an Obstructed Deluxe Balcony Plus Fare on the Discovery? (what I have booked). You should get a lot more for the money, but I think I'll stick with the Discovery Princess.

Edited October 21, 2022 by billco

[disneyochem]

1 minute ago, billco said:

Am I correct that a Have It All Vista Suite on the HAL ship will cost $12,000 as opposed to $3700 for an Obstructed Deluxe Balcony Plus Fare on the Discovery? You should get a lot more for the money, but I think I'll stick with the Discovery Princess.

To each his/her/their own on what is important in a cruise.  The smaller ship appeals to me.  We have also found that we have to book at least a deluxe balcony on Princess to get a comparable space to what you can get in a large interior cabin on a HAL ship.  We didn't book a Vista Suite; with an ocean view, we get a desk and a couch.  No balcony but we make do with the Crow's Nest and other venues on board.  And with a casino discount, the price is pretty good!

 

We'll probably stay with Princess though.  Hubby can be a bit stubborn sometimes and he wants Princess! 

[mike&elena]

We are going on the Discovery Princess next week...will check out the docking arrangements in Mazatlan and report our findings.  (Still hoping that Princess will see the light and adjust the itinerary for a sea-based eclipse experience!)

[Sea Hag]

24 minutes ago, billco said:

Am I correct that a Have It All Vista Suite on the HAL ship will cost $12,000 as opposed to $3700 for an Obstructed Deluxe Balcony Plus Fare on the Discovery? (what I have booked). You should get a lot more for the money, but I think I'll stick with the Discovery Princess.

I'm with you on that. I priced out the HAL sailing and, for a cabin most comparable to what we have booked on the Discovery, it was waaaaaayyy more. I don't care about having more days on the HAL sailing, it's just not attractive to me.

[help32250]

On 10/21/2022 at 7:58 AM, mike&elena said:

We are going on the Discovery Princess next week...will check out the docking arrangements in Mazatlan and report our findings.  (Still hoping that Princess will see the light and adjust the itinerary for a sea-based eclipse experience!)

mike&elena ---

I will be talking with Princess again this Friday but don't get your hopes up about them doing a "sea chase" of the eclipse.  That harbor is very tight!  I am working with them on some other possibilities but I don't give it a chance in 100 for the sea chase I think you and a number of others want.

It does appear though that the Princess will dock next to what is almost a mile long dock in a South- South- West orientation.  Given the angle of the dock (off due north by about 17-18 degrees), it appears that the Eclipse will be just less than a 30 degree-slightly-right-view from looking directly out on your Port Side Balcony.  I am attaching my best guess at what that would look like.  The dock is where the thick red line is.  And the thick yellow line with the arrow is the direction of where the Eclipse will be viewed from any position along the dock's red line.

While I am trying to get a non-passenger clearance to go on-board the Discovery to check out the maximum angle looking up from various Balconys, maybe you could do at least yours before me.  The unobstructed angle looking up must be at least 70 degrees to afford a clear view of the Eclipse.  So take a Large Protractor or True Angle tool with you to be sure.  If you are under the Sky Walk or a Tender you will probably be out of luck. 

Updating as of this morning I do not see a single (non-interior) Balcony available.  So if you have one on the Port Side, make sure NOT to allow Princess to do an "upgrade" ... as you will probably lose a better balcony position.  And, mike&elena, please include your stateroom number on your post.

I'll try to get more definitive info soon.

[mike&elena]

help32250--

We have a port side aft balcony cabin on this week's sailing of the Discovery Princess.  In Mazatlan, we will check out the ship's docking position and measure the unobstructed view angle.  We will be using the angle finder app on the phone and a protractor with a weighted string (old school method).  We'll also talk with the captain about the logistics of heading out to sea to view the 2024 eclipse.

Mike&Elena

 

 

17 hours ago, help32250 said:

mike&elena ---

I will be talking with Princess again this Friday but don't get your hopes up about them doing a "sea chase" of the eclipse.  That harbor is very tight!  I am working with them on some other possibilities but I don't give it a chance in 100 for the sea chase I think you and a number of others want.

It does appear though that the Princess will dock next to what is almost a mile long dock in a South- South- West orientation.  Given the angle of the dock (off due north by about 17-18 degrees), it appears that the Eclipse will be just less than a 30 degree-slightly-right-view from looking directly out on your Port Side Balcony.  I am attaching my best guess at what that would look like.  The dock is where the thick red line is.  And the thick yellow line with the arrow is the direction of where the Eclipse will be viewed from any position along the dock's red line.

While I am trying to get a non-passenger clearance to go on-board the Discovery to check out the maximum angle looking up from various Balconys, maybe you could do at least yours before me.  The unobstructed angle looking up must be at least 70 degrees to afford a clear view of the Eclipse.  So take a Large Protractor or True Angle tool with you to be sure.  If you are under the Sky Walk or a Tender you will probably be out of luck. 

Updating as of this morning I do not see a single (non-interior) Balcony available.  So if you have one on the Port Side, make sure NOT to allow Princess to do an "upgrade" ... as you will probably lose a better balcony position.  And, mike&elena, please include your stateroom number on your post.

I'll try to get more definitive info soon.

 

[Griff4AU]

Glad we saw this. We're book on a Dlx Balcony, which is the best that's available at the moment.

At this moment (26 Oct and 21:35 CT) only Interiors and Dlx Balconies are available. 

 

Minimal deposit due after a few day courtesy hold.

I'd rather be out to sea, but the HAL prices are silly and we'll have our daughter with us and HAL just isn't 12 yo (in 2024) friendly. 

 

Thank you for posting this thread.

[help32250]

14 hours ago, Griff4AU said:

Glad we saw this. We're book on a Dlx Balcony, which is the best that's available at the moment.

At this moment (26 Oct and 21:35 CT) only Interiors and Dlx Balconies are available. 

 

Minimal deposit due after a few day courtesy hold.

I'd rather be out to sea, but the HAL prices are silly and we'll have our daughter with us and HAL just isn't 12 yo (in 2024) friendly. 

 

Thank you for posting this thread.

Griff4AU ---

The Deluxe Balcony is nice relative to having a deeper balcony than the regular Balcony staterooms (which should be great for the Eclipse cruise).  But I booked mine essentially the moment it was announced and did not have the expected docking side info to help me make my stateroom decision ... and I did not change once I knew it.  THAT and the fact that I prefer Balconies that look primarily towards the land (which the Port balconies will most likely have on the Eclipse cruise) AND the fact that lower level Balcony staterooms are kinda "on view" from those above.  Make sure to LOOK UP from your Balcony.  Since it appears essentially any Balcony will be able to see the horizon below the Eclipse, the critical angle will be the max angle when you look up.  69.1 degrees is the on-center position of the Moon at its Totality ... but I am checking with NASA to see how much broader a view would be needed to be able to see not only the Moon but the but also the extent of its halo.

At the end of Totality 69.5 degrees will be the angle and at the end of its partial Eclipse 73.3.  But by that time most of your Champagne will be gone and you won't care!  

Fyi, I first made my case known to the President of Princess (now it and HAL's group executive) and CCL's chairman in late 2017.  And, in full disclosure, I am a CCL Shareholder with 26 Princess cruises and suggested they schedule several such cruises including one in Port (like ours) as well as another just headed towards Mazatlan and another just departing.  Look like I may have been persuasive.  But I checked HAL's prices and they are daunting ... let alone for that other non-CCL ship which is almost $25K for two with essentially no balcony at all.

And yes, it appears to me that The Discovery Princess is all but sold out!

 

mike&elena ---

I am really looking forward to your angle measurements ... but since I essentially used a protractor on GoogleMaps to get the angle of the Dock ... I am most interested in your Center-Line angle of it.  But I've gotta tell you that your weighted string technique (do you hang your own wallpaper?) is probably a darned good one.  I even suggested to my Princess contact to ask one of the ship's personnel that knows how to use a Sextant to do it.  But I think the probably of that happening is more remote than the ship going out on a sea chase of the Eclipse.

May I suggest you prepare the biggest piece of paper (poster or "flip chart" if you as old as me) with a big thick right angle drawn on it?  Have some masking tape to fix it to the divider panel between your stateroom and the next and mark where the overhang above hits.  And you may want to take it from at least 2 positions (as far out and again as close in to the slider) as possible.  I've attached an rough example of what you might use.  The really difficult part will be getting on your hands and knees to look up from your balcony's deck to get the angle. 

As much as I intend to view the Eclipse from one of the upper decks, I think the ability for many to view it from their own balcony with just their favorite person on one arm and their favorite drink it the other hand is very enticing ... let alone for many who are physically challenged.  Who knows.  Maybe my arthritis may force me to be one of them.

I like your aggressiveness in planning to ask the Captain about a sea chase.  Fyi, I am asking my contact about several other options, one of which would be disembarking an "excursion group" while still at sea.  I recall one of my Princess ships doing exactly that (off Italy I think) for a special excursion.  Very unusual, but there is precedent. 

On reason against the Princess doing a sea chase of the Eclipse is pure math.  Whatever vessel departing the Mazatlan Dock (Princess or otherwise) would have to be really fast in order to get out to a "sweet spot" (without possible cloud cover).  And there is no guarantee against having clouds anywhere.  I think the Princess could do 20 knots but with an absolute max of 4 hours to both find and get to that sweet spot would be extremely challenging at best.  Sorry.

At the risk of probably making a lot of the people that booked this cruise but are more interested in seeing Mazatlan than the Eclipse, I will ask Princee about that too.

Again mike&elena, please post your stateroom number when you share with us your info.

 

I expect to talk with Princess tomorrow and will update all of you as appropriate.  But I can confirm that they really want to make this one of the best Princess cruises you will ever have.

[Griff4AU]

3 hours ago, help32250 said:

but since I essentially used a protractor on GoogleMaps to get the angle of the Dock ...

Now that's just not something you hear every day! 😂

 

Those HAL cruises are pricey. I am wondering if the Volendam (not mentioned above) will chase the Eclipse some. Departs San Diego on the 6th, 2 sea days then Puerto Vallarta on the 9th. 

I wish Princess will tweak the Discovery itinerary. Probably a bit rare for them to see this much activity on a sailing 18 months out. I may have to see if X or RCL will put something out for the Eclipse.

The Carnival Panorama is due to hit Cabo on the 9th. Maybe they will tweak that itinerary.

[help32250]

On 10/26/2022 at 8:26 AM, mike&elena said:

help32250--

We have a port side aft balcony cabin on this week's sailing of the Discovery Princess.  In Mazatlan, we will check out the ship's docking position and measure the unobstructed view angle.  We will be using the angle finder app on the phone and a protractor with a weighted string (old school method).  We'll also talk with the captain about the logistics of heading out to sea to view the 2024 eclipse.

Mike&Elena

 

 

 

I spent over an hour on the phone with my Princess contact and he was VERY interested in and supportive of my/our concerns.  He asked me to put it into a letter which he would support and take forward.  So I did and copied their Group Executive.  A week ago I considered this a 1 in 100 long shot at best.  After today's discussion I think it may be close to 50-50.  It was a very positive call.  I pointed out everything from timing and logistics ... to finding the sweetest (non-cloudy) weather spot ... to the otherwise impossible ability to only be able to see a sunrise/sunset view looking in any direction ONLY if we were at sea.  His litmus test question of me was "which is more important, a 72 degree angle looking up from balconies at the Dock or going out to sea with no ability to know whether you could see it from your balcony?"  I told him that being out at sea would be #1 and everything else below a #5.  Since he knew how much effort I had been putting in on the Angle looking up, positioning it so far below being out at sea really impressed him.  I also reminded him that THE PASSENGER CONTRACT very specifically allows Port arrival times and Port sequence changes.  But we'll have to be patient and wait and see.  In the immediate meantime, have a fun cruise and tell me your cabin number when you get a chance.  Also check out my Angle revision based on my Protractor (I got some fun cheap shots on that for being such a Dinosaur) with Stateroom Detail.  Just to let you know that one of my favorite expressions is that "if you have insurance you won't need it."  I'm hoping I can trash this, fyi.

[help32250]

On 10/27/2022 at 4:42 PM, Griff4AU said:

Now that's just not something you hear every day! 😂

 

Those HAL cruises are pricey. I am wondering if the Volendam (not mentioned above) will chase the Eclipse some. Departs San Diego on the 6th, 2 sea days then Puerto Vallarta on the 9th. 

I wish Princess will tweak the Discovery itinerary. Probably a bit rare for them to see this much activity on a sailing 18 months out. I may have to see if X or RCL will put something out for the Eclipse.

The Carnival Panorama is due to hit Cabo on the 9th. Maybe they will tweak that itinerary.

Griff --- You guys are cute re the Protractor comment.  I needed that laugh as I had some rather direct discussions with Princess today (read my post near the end).  But if you guys liked the Protractor comment, do you know what I REALLY wanted for a College Graduation present?  A 20" Slide Rule.  As an Engineer it would have given me one more digit of precision in my answers!  I am so old that the World hadn't yet been colorized when I was a kid.  When I told my daughter that she said NOT.  I replied, well you've seen Grandma and Grandpa's photo album and their pictures are all black and white so you tell me.  She just shook her head and said ... wow, before the World was colorized.  Smiles kids.

[scottsol]

37 minutes ago, help32250 said:

His litmus test question of me was "which is more important, a 72 degree angle looking up from balconies at the Dock or going out to sea with no ability to know whether you could see it from your balcony?"  I told him that being out at sea would be #1 and everything else below a #5.

In truth, your answer shouldn’t have mattered. Assuming that a large majority of passengers chose this sailing because of the eclipse it is clear that many of them would be quartered on the wrong side of the ship for viewing the eclipse regardless of where the ship was.

 

The pertinent question is if seeing the eclipse was the primary reason people chose this particular cruise.

[HaveDogWillTravel]

On 9/17/2022 at 3:10 PM, help32250 said:

The real arbiter is the Ship's Captain who will dock it wherever he wants given the clearance he obtains.  So your ability to see it from either the Port or Starboard side of the ship is still up in the air.

Very true. This photo taken from the Royal princess docked in Mazatlan Oct 1, 2023. Starboard faces land this time.  There are a lot of upper deck spaces that will work just fine. 

[Griff4AU]

16 hours ago, help32250 said:

....do you know what I REALLY wanted for a College Graduation present?  A 20" Slide Rule.  As an Engineer it would have given me one more digit of precision in my answers!  I am so old that the World hadn't yet been colorized when I was a kid.  When I told my daughter that she said NOT.  I replied, well you've seen Grandma and Grandpa's photo album and their pictures are all black and white so you tell me.  She just shook her head and said ... wow, before the World was colorized.  Smiles kids.

I barely remember those days. The "cool" finance folks wanted the original HP 12c and we aviators wanted an original E6B "whizzy wheel". 'Hard to imagine we put a man on the moon and lived without remote controls (other than dad yelling "change the channel ... "). 

Reminiscing aside, surely there are some folks at Princess with both the business and financial acumen to realize that the reason they are seeing a full boat this early on with this particular itinerary (how many really will book a Mexico itinerary 18 months out?) is because of the eclipse. And as much as Princess is my "sweet spot" with the cruise lines, if (when) Royal and/or X tosses an eclipse itinerary out there that has the ship on the water and chasing the eclipse, I cancel my Princess reservation that day if the Discovery itinerary still shows her in port. 

If 50+ years ago we could put men on the moon and fly around the world using slide rules, wizzy wheels and 12c's, Princess can figure out what the right thing to do is here.