Carnival Ecstasy Future

[Guest BasicSailor]

Some of those Bemouths can't fit under a bridge that a smaller ship can, Tampa/ Jaxport  or even dock at some ports (Mourings). 

[mz-s]

30 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

 

If you live in a world where Carnival could regularly fill up the Mardi Gras (at a profit) from Jacksonville, then God bless you.

 

The interesting thing is what will happen to Jacksonville once the Spirit class is gone. I really doubt they're going to rebuild that bridge for larger ships.

 

I remember they had to cut 5 feet off of Sensation so she'd fit under the bridge in Tampa - not sure that port has a future either once the Spirit class ages out. I really doubt the industry is going to build more small ships but is Carnival OK with giving up those markets. Time will tell.

[Guest BasicSailor]

41 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

The interesting thing is what will happen to Jacksonville once the Spirit class is gone. I really doubt they're going to rebuild that bridge for larger ships.

 

I remember they had to cut 5 feet off of Sensation so she'd fit under the bridge in Tampa - not sure that port has a future either once the Spirit class ages out. I really doubt the industry is going to build more small ships but is Carnival OK with giving up those markets. Time will tell.

For eons there was talk of a new port in Jacksonville, Eons.   never happen.

[CarnivalShips480]

11 hours ago, Itried4498 said:

 

Megaships aren't going to replace most of the Fantasy-class itineraries.  When the Fantasy-class ships debuted, 3 and 4 day itineraries were the most common; megaships are designed for 7+ day voyages.  This means that instead of flying to San Juan and enjoying the South Caribbean on a 3 or 4 day cruise, you will be departing Miami for a weeklong voyage instead.  This means that the future of secondary ports like Jacksonville and Mobile is now questionable.  This means that Los Angeles, which has seen 3-day weekend cruises for decades, may soon lose them as Carnival reallocates resources toward more profitable itineraries (like 4-day weekend, 5-day trips to Cabo, etc. as the Radiance proves to be too large and too costly to operate traditional itineraries in a highly competitive market). 

 

 

Any ship can do any cruises (any length). Allure of the Seas (5th biggest) is scheduled to do 3+4

[tidecat]

Covid testing and vaccine requirements are likely dragging down demand for shorter cruises. Why risk 5-14 days of quarantine for a 3 night cruise?

[mz-s]

9 hours ago, BasicSailor said:

For eons there was talk of a new port in Jacksonville, Eons.   never happen.

 

Similar story in Charleston...the difference is Charleston can accommodate Destiny-class vessels (and probably bigger, if they build a parking structure). The city just limits them to 3k pax per voyage.

 

1 minute ago, tidecat said:

Covid testing and vaccine requirements are likely dragging down demand for shorter cruises. Why risk 5-14 days of quarantine for a 3 night cruise?

 

That's a good point. Flight costs are not helping either I'd say. If you can easily drive to the port, that's a different story obviously.

[jsglow]

All this discussion is why I firmly believe that Carnival will eventually 'Sunshine' all of the Spirit Class ships.  It's a proven technique.  And the Fantasy Class is being phased out not so much because the hulls are so old but because the design is ancient (w/ no or few Balcs.)

[SwordBlazer Cruising]

On 5/18/2022 at 9:11 AM, F27TW said:

It's time, anyway.   Carnival needs to continue aiming higher and keep parking these ugly old Farcus-era Fantasy class party barges.    They're just keeping Carnival's seedy, rowdy party-boat image alive.  They gotta go ..bye bye, Ecstasy. 

Should the cruiseline get rid of the seedy, rowdy party passengers as well? Its only fair. They gotta go... 

[mz-s]

1 hour ago, jsglow said:

All this discussion is why I firmly believe that Carnival will eventually 'Sunshine' all of the Spirit Class ships.  It's a proven technique.  And the Fantasy Class is being phased out not so much because the hulls are so old but because the design is ancient (w/ no or few Balcs.)

 

I'd be fine with modernizing the decor but if they ruin these ships by ripping out lounges and putting in more staterooms it'll be sad.

[aggie182]

Going on the Ecstasy in a few weeks and part of the draw for us is the old-school vibe.  I'm looking forward to it in a weird seedy, but safe, off-strip, dingy casino in Vegas kind of way.  Just want to experience it.

Edited May 19, 2022 by aggie182

[rmandmm]

I'm also on in a few weeks, my first solo. I have gone on tons of 4-5 day cruises on CCL with my family or girlfriends because the small ports are so much easier IMHO. And we're not partiers, but especially when my kids were small it was nice to have smaller ships because I could literally see them in the entire pool/slide area from certain viewpoints where I could sit and enjoy the sea. We could never do that on bigger ships. That said, the kids are teen/pre-teen now and are wise to the draws of the larger water parks and other stuff on larger ships so I guess those days are over. I like the larger ships too but just saying there are lots of people other than the party crowd that utilize the smaller ships--just probably not on spring break! 

[tidecat]

52 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

I'd be fine with modernizing the decor but if they ruin these ships by ripping out lounges and putting in more staterooms it'll be sad.

That actually happened with the Elation and Paradise. They have Promenade deck staterooms.

[SDPadreFan]

14 hours ago, BasicSailor said:

Some of those Bemouths can't fit under a bridge that a smaller ship can, Tampa/ Jaxport  or even dock at some ports (Mourings). 

 

14 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

The interesting thing is what will happen to Jacksonville once the Spirit class is gone. I really doubt they're going to rebuild that bridge for larger ships.

 

I remember they had to cut 5 feet off of Sensation so she'd fit under the bridge in Tampa - not sure that port has a future either once the Spirit class ages out. I really doubt the industry is going to build more small ships but is Carnival OK with giving up those markets. Time will tell.

 

They don't HAVE TO build only the Mega class ships. If smaller port access issues are important to Carnival (or anyone else), they can easily build smaller ships in the 2500-3500 pax range for those ports like Tampa, etc.

 

Save for the efficiencies of larger passenger counts, the smaller ships would still benefit from increased engineering plant efficiencies that have been developed over the last 20-30 years.

 

Smaller ships also allow for more unique itineraries and that can be a huge selling point as well. Not all ports of call want a 6000 passenger behemoth (or even 2/3/4 of them at once).

[Guest BasicSailor]

19 minutes ago, SDPadreFan said:

 

 

They don't HAVE TO build only the Mega class ships. If smaller port access issues are important to Carnival (or anyone else), they can easily build smaller ships in the 2500-3500 pax range for those ports like Tampa, etc.

 

Save for the efficiencies of larger passenger counts, the smaller ships would still benefit from increased engineering plant efficiencies that have been developed over the last 20-30 years.

 

Smaller ships also allow for more unique itineraries and that can be a huge selling point as well. Not all ports of call want a 6000 passenger behemoth (or even 2/3/4 of them at once).

You made me remember when JH use to belittle RCL for those huge behemoths of the sea claiming that Carnival would never go in that direction 🙂. Well here we are in 2022 with the main attraction being the bigger the ship the more money flowing to the CruiseLine . I think the little boats are a thing of the past. Yes I know there ships, just seems right to call them boats compared to the behemoths of today.☺️

[mz-s]

1 hour ago, tidecat said:

That actually happened with the Elation and Paradise. They have Promenade deck staterooms.

 

Paradise still has her aft lounge, but yes they did take out Elation's aft lounge for more staterooms.

[Itried4498]

6 hours ago, tidecat said:

Covid testing and vaccine requirements are likely dragging down demand for shorter cruises. Why risk 5-14 days of quarantine for a 3 night cruise?

 

In 2018, Carnival estimated that over 2/3 of its passengers were 40+.  That same year, the industry reported the average domestic cruise passenger had a household income of nearly $120K, and nearly 90% of cruisers over 35 held college degrees.  If you truly believe believe this demographic is staying away from cruising because of vaccine mandates & COIVD testing requirements, then I suggest for your next vacation, you take a road trip outside of the SE/KY.

[Itried4498]

6 hours ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

Any ship can do any cruises (any length). Allure of the Seas (5th biggest) is scheduled to do 3+4

Of course they can, but that wasn’t the point – megaships are most efficient on extended voyages (think of all the added cost in turning a ship over… increased staffing on the ground, additional cleaning of 6,000+ pairs of bedding – often outsourced to local vendors, loss of a day at port = less commissions from tours, additional meals to prepare, less opportunity for low-cost vendors to supply & service the ship, etc.)  Nor could all (heck, even most) of Carnival’s itineraries fill up a megaship.

 

The other piece is that Carnival never ordered replacements for the Fantasy-class ships, thus opportunity cost prevails.  During a pre-COVID earnings call, Carnival asserted it was seeing its strongest per-day revenue growth within extended & unique voyages.  Let’s assume that in the near future, the industry’s legacy demographic returns (this, that point becomes valid again).  Regardless of what’s in the schedule today/logistics of certain ships on certain routes, do you truly believe Carnival is going to deploy the Spirit-class ships on $99pp 3-day runs from Mobile, Jacksonville or even Miami to Nassau when they could be getting $1999pp on 14-day runs to Hawaii, Alaska or via the Panama Canal?    

[DarthGrady]

5 hours ago, SwordBlazer Cruising said:

Should the cruiseline get rid of the seedy, rowdy party passengers as well? Its only fair. They gotta go... 

I hope not, I still want to cruise with Carnival!

 

I can be a bit rowdy, maybe even seedy on the right kind of night, so I tend to only cruise on the Fantasy Class ships. Works out great since they are my favorite class, and the bourgeoisie get their caviar and Dom Perignon aboard Carnival Potterybarn without being bothered by the riffraff.  😂😂😂

Edited May 19, 2022 by DarthGrady

[CarnivalShips480]

39 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

Of course they can, but that wasn’t the point – megaships are most efficient on extended voyages (think of all the added cost in turning a ship over… increased staffing on the ground, additional cleaning of 6,000+ pairs of bedding – often outsourced to local vendors, loss of a day at port = less commissions from tours, additional meals to prepare, less opportunity for low-cost vendors to supply & service the ship, etc.)  Nor could all (heck, even most) of Carnival’s itineraries fill up a megaship.

 

The other piece is that Carnival never ordered replacements for the Fantasy-class ships, thus opportunity cost prevails.  During a pre-COVID earnings call, Carnival asserted it was seeing its strongest per-day revenue growth within extended & unique voyages.  Let’s assume that in the near future, the industry’s legacy demographic returns (this, that point becomes valid again).  Regardless of what’s in the schedule today/logistics of certain ships on certain routes, do you truly believe Carnival is going to deploy the Spirit-class ships on $99pp 3-day runs from Mobile, Jacksonville or even Miami to Nassau when they could be getting $1999pp on 14-day runs to Hawaii, Alaska or via the Panama Canal?    

They would just make the cruises longer. Before, ships have done 4+5 days from Mobile but when Spirit goes in October 2023 it does 6+8 days.

 

I am not sure, but there might have been a time when they tried to do longer cruises from Jacksonville but people didn't like it.

 

Also 4 Spirit class ships, 4 spots needed for them (Baltimore, Jacksonville, 2 at Tampa). I don't think that it is ABSOLUTLY essential for them to be anywhere else....

[Itried4498]

33 minutes ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

They would just make the cruises longer. Before, ships have done 4+5 days from Mobile but when Spirit goes in October 2023 it does 6+8 days.

 

I am not sure, but there might have been a time when they tried to do longer cruises from Jacksonville but people didn't like it.

 

Also 4 Spirit class ships, 4 spots needed for them (Baltimore, Jacksonville, 2 at Tampa). I don't think that it is ABSOLUTLY essential for them to be anywhere else....

 

Of course, that ignores opportunity cost...

[jsglow]

9 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

I'd be fine with modernizing the decor but if they ruin these ships by ripping out lounges and putting in more staterooms it'll be sad.

Do you think Sunrise is a 'ruined' Triumph?

[Jabee]

I am glad I will get a trip on the Ecstacy before she is removed. Bummed we will go six months without a  ship in Mobile, but then we will have Spirit for six months.

 

[Guest BasicSailor]

On 5/19/2022 at 7:32 PM, jsglow said:

Do you think Sunrise is a 'ruined' Triumph?

Triumph was ruined so the renamed it Sunrise 😉

[CarnivalShips480]

17 hours ago, Jabee said:

I am glad I will get a trip on the Ecstacy before she is removed. Bummed we will go six months without a  ship in Mobile, but then we will have Spirit for six months.

 

It is a year without a ship for Mobile

 

Ecstasy - Until October 2022

Spirit - Starts October 2023

[CarnivalShips480]

On 5/19/2022 at 4:11 PM, Itried4498 said:

 

Of course, that ignores opportunity cost...

I think that it is better to keep the smaller ports. Any other ship in the fleet (almost) can fill the ports that AREN'T height restricted