Please Review Itinerary & Provide Suggestions

[Host Bonjour]

On 5/26/2022 at 11:52 AM, slidergirl said:

I just thought of this:  when you come back, please add your food adventures to our sticky up top of this forum so others will be able to see your reviews.

 

Seconded! Thanks for thinking of this Slidergirl! 😎

 

It's been wonderful to see the All Things Food & Wine sticky expand, thanks to everyone for adding their recommendations and continuing to ask questions, contribute to conversations. It looks like it's making a difference in helping travelers increase and enhance their planning and enjoyment of meals during their time in Rome and elsewhere in Italy, a country so renowned for its culinary riches. 

 

Well done community, as always 🙂 

 

[cruisemom42]

36 minutes ago, taylortime05 said:

I just have to remember that we’ll probably visit Rome again.

 

...and I think you'll feel even more that way after your first visit. 😊

[taylortime05]

Hi,

 

I really appreciate everyone's help with my itinerary.   A special thank you to @cruisemom42 for taking so much time and giving me detail feedback day by day.  I hope I’m not driving you crazy with my changes and questions.    I’ve revised my plan and it’s at the bottom of this post.  

 

These are my reasons for modifying the plan: 

 

1).  On the 1st full day,  I wanted to take more time to get acclimated with the area.  The golf tour sounded like fun and it’s gotten so many great reviews.  I’m hoping we get time at each stop to get out and take pics.      I’ll let you know how I like it after our trip.  I was also trying to fit in the "10 Tastings of Rome with Locals”  because it also got great reviews and sounded like fun.  But I didn’t want it to take a dinner spot because I had reservations at all the restaurants you recommended.  

 

2). I was excited and apprehensive about the e-bike tour to Appian Way, Catacombs & Aqueducts.  I read quite a few reviews that even with e-bike it was quite strenuous because 70% of it was not on smooth pavement.  I found a tour that takes us to Catacombs & Aqueducts and a drive along Appian Way.  It doesn’t sound as nice as the e-bike but I know I’m not in great shape for a strenuous bike ride.  

 

3). For the morning tours,  I preferred booking with LivItaly because their tours are a max of 6 people. I moved some of the tours around to match their availability.  

 

These are my questions regarding revised plan:

 

1)   I’d really appreciate your feedback on the overall revised plan.  Does it still look good with a balance between tours & free time to explore?  I went back and read all the feedback on this post to make sure I was not backtracking.

 

2)   Do you have any recommendations for changes?

 

3)   I’m trying to fit in a visit to Castel Sain’t Angelo and the Borghese Gallery.   Do you think this is too much on Sat. June 25th?

 

4).  Do you have any lunch recommendations for Sat, June 25th?

 

This is the itinerary for “10 Tastings of Rome” 

• 

          

This is the itinerary  golf tour:

 

This is the Crypts, Bones & Catacombs: An Underground Tour of Rome (this replaced the e-bike tour)

 

This is my revised plan (hope it’s the last one).  Thank you so much for your help & patience! 

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by taylortime05

[cruisemom42]

I'm digesting this all slowly....  But a few comments and initial thoughts:

 

On Friday, your "10 Tastings" tour ends in the center of Trastevere. I would take advantage of your location and stop in to see the churches of Santa Maria in Trastevere (right where you end tour)  and also the close by church of Santa Cecilia in Trastevere.  There are nice piazzas in Trastevere to pause for a coffee if needed (and/or I suspect you'll get a coffee on your tastings tour), so rather than heading back to the Pantheon location immediately, see some of Trastevere. You still have time to get back for your golf cart tour -- I would suggest a taxi, there's a stand in the same piazza where your tour ends. 

 

On the other hand...

It looks like you may be covering some of the same ground on your Friday tastings tour and your Saturday Twilight Trastevere tour. It looks like you are encouraged to customize the "10 tastings" tour -- I don't know if you'd want to consider having a conversation with the guide about going elsewhere than Trastevere for the last 3 stops. Perhaps they could take you to some tastings in the Jewish ghetto area instead?

 

On Saturday, you could do both Castel Sant'angelo and the Borghese if you would like to fit both in. Note that with the Borghese, there are 2-hour timed slots in the afternoons: they are 1-3 pm or 3-5pm. If you pick 3-5pm, you would have enough time for a lunch after the Castel visit and still be able to get to the Borghese in time. The drawback is that you will sort of be going back and forth across the city all day: from the center to the Vatican to the Borghese to Trastevere. (And it doesn't really allow for any downtime.... The Borghese is the outlier in terms of location. You'd exit it at 5:00 pm and need to be in Trastevere by 6:00 pm.  How are you planning to get from place to place?

 

OR: 

My gut feeling is that you still have a lot of emphasis on food. I know it sounds good on paper, but I think you're going to be stuffed to the gills.  With the two tasting tours, it seems to me to be a bit of a waste to be passing by many wonderful places that deserve an inside visit and likely only seeing the exterior. I might consider removing the Twilight in Trastevere tour. Keep the Trastevere tastings on your Friday tour and spend some time in Trastevere after as I suggested above.  This would mean you have some open time on Saturday late afternoon. Come back from the Borghese, rest your feet for a few minutes, enjoy a drink on the rooftop of the hotel. Then maybe go have dinner in the Ghetto at one of the places recommended.

[cruisemom42]

Saturday lunch:  Should you decide to do both the Castel Sant'angelo and the Borghese, there are two places not too far from Castel Sant'angelo that I could suggest, depending on what you want. (But first let me say that if for any reason you don't think you'll get to Pizzarium on the other day where you have it planned, then go there!  Consider these alternative suggestions:

 

If you have any concerns about time and want something that won't involve a long drawn-out lunch, then I can suggest 200 Gradi. It's a bit closer to the Vatican than to the Castel, but it's one of the few places nearby there that isn't a total rip-off. It's more or less a sandwich place but with fresh ingredients and fresh-baked bread. (Just a warning that the place can be hard to spot, the sign isn't large.)

 

On the other hand, if you want to indulge in the full Italian lunch experience, I've recently heard good things about Arlu, a modern take on the traditional restaurant about halfway between Castel Sant'angelo and St. Peter's. Allow plenty of time, it is not a place to be rushed. Family owned, local and seasonal ingredients. Reservations are recommended. It's expensive but for lunch I'd probably suggest ordering a pasta each and sharing an appetizer. Arlù - Ristorante a San Pietro dal 1959 (ristorantearlu.it)

 

 

 

[cruisemom42]

Your last two days look pretty well balanced. I'm glad you found something to replace the bike tour and still get to see the Appia Antica. It will be nice to have your last dinner at Roscioli -- enjoy!!

 

Don't forget to visit Trevi Fountain and toss in your coins to ensure your return. 😃  It's worked for me.

[slidergirl]

@cruisemom42;  hey, what's wrong with a lot of food??? 😉

[taylortime05]

5 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

I'm digesting this all slowly....  But a few comments and initial thoughts:

 

On Friday, your "10 Tastings" tour ends in the center of Trastevere. I would take advantage of your location and stop in to see the churches of Santa Maria in Trastevere (right where you end tour)  and also the close by church of Santa Cecilia in Trastevere.  There are nice piazzas in Trastevere to pause for a coffee if needed (and/or I suspect you'll get a coffee on your tastings tour), so rather than heading back to the Pantheon location immediately, see some of Trastevere. You still have time to get back for your golf cart tour -- I would suggest a taxi, there's a stand in the same piazza where your tour ends. 

 

On the other hand...

It looks like you may be covering some of the same ground on your Friday tastings tour and your Saturday Twilight Trastevere tour. It looks like you are encouraged to customize the "10 tastings" tour -- I don't know if you'd want to consider having a conversation with the guide about going elsewhere than Trastevere for the last 3 stops. Perhaps they could take you to some tastings in the Jewish ghetto area instead?

 

On Saturday, you could do both Castel Sant'angelo and the Borghese if you would like to fit both in. Note that with the Borghese, there are 2-hour timed slots in the afternoons: they are 1-3 pm or 3-5pm. If you pick 3-5pm, you would have enough time for a lunch after the Castel visit and still be able to get to the Borghese in time. The drawback is that you will sort of be going back and forth across the city all day: from the center to the Vatican to the Borghese to Trastevere. (And it doesn't really allow for any downtime.... The Borghese is the outlier in terms of location. You'd exit it at 5:00 pm and need to be in Trastevere by 6:00 pm.  How are you planning to get from place to place?

 

OR: 

My gut feeling is that you still have a lot of emphasis on food. I know it sounds good on paper, but I think you're going to be stuffed to the gills.  With the two tasting tours, it seems to me to be a bit of a waste to be passing by many wonderful places that deserve an inside visit and likely only seeing the exterior. I might consider removing the Twilight in Trastevere tour. Keep the Trastevere tastings on your Friday tour and spend some time in Trastevere after as I suggested above.  This would mean you have some open time on Saturday late afternoon. Come back from the Borghese, rest your feet for a few minutes, enjoy a drink on the rooftop of the hotel. Then maybe go have dinner in the Ghetto at one of the places recommended.

 

Thank you so much.   I haven’t thought much about how to get from place to place.  I started noting distances between places.   I’d like to walk as much as possible but I’m totally fine getting a taxi as needed.  I bet when we’re tired and hot, a taxi will be nice relief.  

 

I’ve went back and forth, but I think I’m going to skip the Borghese this trip.  I may also cancel the Twilight food tour.  I want to make sure we have some time to relax and explore some on our own.  

[taylortime05]

5 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Your last two days look pretty well balanced. I'm glad you found something to replace the bike tour and still get to see the Appia Antica. It will be nice to have your last dinner at Roscioli -- enjoy!!

 

Don't forget to visit Trevi Fountain and toss in your coins to ensure your return. 😃  It's worked for me.

 

Thank you again!  Yes, we’ll definitely put some coins in the Trevi Fountain.   I can’t believe we’ll be leaving in less than 3 weeks. We’re so excited.     

[taylortime05]

Do you think my reservations for lunch & dinner at the nicer restaurants are going to be too much food and too much time spent eating?

Edited June 10, 2022 by taylortime05

[slidergirl]

33 minutes ago, taylortime05 said:

Do you think my reservations for lunch & dinner at the nicer restaurants are going to be too much food and too much time spent eating?

It depends.  remember that you don't have to order something from each course!   I plan my trips around having nice meals a good number of times.   The trip i'm taking in a few weeks (a month between France & Italy) i've been researching places to eat more than places to see.  i'm more of a "wanderer" than a "scheduler".  i will pick one thing/place that I want to see and then spend the rest of the day just wandering around and taking in the scene.  It took me multiple trips to Rome before I actually visited the Vatican museums.  I happened upon the Colosseum doing a wander.  i'm a bit different from the usual, I guess.

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, taylortime05 said:

Do you think my reservations for lunch & dinner at the nicer restaurants are going to be too much food and too much time spent eating?

 

Let me start by saying something I should've said earlier -- it's entirely your vacation and any advice we give should be looked at through your own filter and accepted OR rejected.

 

Sitting down for a meal at lunch and dinner, to me, serves two purposes -- it is an experience, and it also forces you to rest and slow down for a bit. You really focus on the food.

 

With food tours I feel that while you might get to taste a lot of food, you don't really relax and you also don't focus FULLY on either the food or your surroundings. It's a bit like multi-tasking, and I prefer to do one thing at a time.

 

Rome is a huge city, so it's not so much true there as in smaller Italian towns, but even in Rome you'll find some places (particularly churches but also some smaller sites/museums) close during lunch.  I take that as a sign from the gods of Italian culture that I'm supposed to sit down and enjoy lunch.  All the walking tends to solve the issue of extra calories, yet still sometimes by the end of a trip I am feeling a bit "worn out" with all the food.  And my thought is that you still have your cruise afterwards and more opportunities for enjoying food in other ports as well.

 

If you are enthusiastic about the food choices, keep them. You can always make adjustments along the way if you just can't face another big meal. I wouldn't necessarily worry about canceling reservations at the last minute. Eating at Armando al Pantheon, I've seen people lined up outside hoping for a table if a reservation doesn't show. By around 15 minutes after the appointed time, any available tables are reassigned to these walk-ins.

 

[cruisemom42]

12 hours ago, taylortime05 said:

Thank you so much.   I haven’t thought much about how to get from place to place.  I started noting distances between places.   I’d like to walk as much as possible but I’m totally fine getting a taxi as needed.  I bet when we’re tired and hot, a taxi will be nice relief.  

 

Once you get your schedule pretty well nailed down, it's worth spending some time on the logistics of getting around. The metro lines aren't all that useful in central Rome as they tend to skirt around the main areas (too many ruins buried beneath).  Buses go everywhere but can be crowded and a bit confusing to use. Walking is good, but sometimes it makes sense to take a taxi both to save a bit of time and to give your feet a rest. 

 

There is a taxi rank right alongside the Pantheon, so you are virtually assured of getting an outgoing ride anywhere. But you can't "flag down" a taxi in Rome, so might be a good idea to think about how you'll find a taxi in Trastevere (as I mentioned above) at night, and so on.

 

[marazul]

4 hours ago, taylortime05 said:

Do you think my reservations for lunch & dinner at the nicer restaurants are going to be too much food and too much time spent eating?

Chill. Enjoy a wonderful, relaxing meal. There is no such thing as too much time spent eating. 

Really, enjoy your restaurant meals and consider doing some of your sightseeing instead of the food tours.  The restaurant meals will be better and you can get a very wide selection by choosing a good variety across menus. 

[slidergirl]

Don't leave out the 'non-nicer' places to eat!!!  That's usually my thing for lunch.  Many times the best food is found at those little places.  Sometimes I'll do the nice place for lunch if it is more affordable than doing dinner here.   But, like marazul, enjoy a relaxing meal.  Get the aperitivo, get the wine,  eat some food.  

[bbqbears]

We will be in Rome for 12 hours as part of our NCL cruise in September.  This will be my 3rd trip to Rome,  but this will be the  first trip for my son, DIL and friend.  My group is not interested in doing a Vatican tour.  Given transport time from ship to Rome, it's really a very short day.  We will use the hop on/off bus and supplement with a taxi ride if we need to.   My son and DIL of course want to see everything, but that will not be realistic.  I'm curious what people who have been to Rome before think should be on their  "must see" list, if given those time constraints.  

[mapleleaves]

2 minutes ago, bbqbears said:

We will be in Rome for 12 hours as part of our NCL cruise in September.  This will be my 3rd trip to Rome,  but this will be the  first trip for my son, DIL and friend.  My group is not interested in doing a Vatican tour.  Given transport time from ship to Rome, it's really a very short day.  We will use the hop on/off bus and supplement with a taxi ride if we need to.   My son and DIL of course want to see everything, but that will not be realistic.  I'm curious what people who have been to Rome before think should be on their  "must see" list, if given those time constraints.  

We all have different interests and travel styles.  If your son/DIL have a large Must See list, they should peel off and do their own thing. No need for the group to cling together for the whole day.  It would be terribly frustrating to be in Rome, so close to sites you'd love to see but miss them because others in the group weren't interested or able.  You could meet up for the return trip to Civi and share your stories of the day! 

Our group of 4 was on an NCL cruise, 7am-7pm.   We had a few Must Sees but weren't interested in tours of individual sites. Our list was: the Vatican, Trevi Fountain, Colosseum, and Circus Maximus.  But during our walk, we also saw Piazza Navone, Parthenon, Spanish Steps, and Castel San Angelo. 

 

We took the cruise express train to S Pietro then walked 15 minutes to the Vatican.  After that we walked and also hailed a couple of cabs. When we were done, we caught a cab to Ostiense Station for the express train back to Civi. I think there were less the 10 pax in that particular train car so very comfortable . 

Using the express train made for a short day; caught the 9am train from Civi and left Rome around 4, but we saw what we wanted to see, plus  a little more.

 

 

[cruisemom42]

42 minutes ago, bbqbears said:

We will be in Rome for 12 hours as part of our NCL cruise in September.  This will be my 3rd trip to Rome,  but this will be the  first trip for my son, DIL and friend.  My group is not interested in doing a Vatican tour.  Given transport time from ship to Rome, it's really a very short day.  We will use the hop on/off bus and supplement with a taxi ride if we need to.   My son and DIL of course want to see everything, but that will not be realistic.  I'm curious what people who have been to Rome before think should be on their  "must see" list, if given those time constraints.  

 

I don't know if you've heard this already, but I do not recommend the HOHO buses as effective for a single day of sightseeing in Rome. There is too much traffic, too few buses, and due to the pedestrianized areas and traffic flows, the buses often do not even pass by the places of interest (in other words, you can't see them from the bus) so you have to get off, walk to the site, walk back to the stop and wait (sometimes for upwards of 30 minutes) to get back on the bus -- only to go another 10 minutes and repeat the whole process again.

 

In certain areas you will make much faster progress just by walking. This is particularly true if your must-sees include Piazza Navona, the Pantheon, Trevi Fountain and Spanish steps. There is a fairly easy walking path from one end of these monuments to the other. Doing it via HOHO would take hours.

 

If you've been to Rome three times, you've probably got a fair idea of the must-sees already. And you've eliminated the Vatican, I guess?  (Or is it just that you don't want a tour?)  What about the Colosseum -- are you happy just to see it from the outside or do you want an inside look?  

 

If I were to make suggestions for a day in Rome starting from Civi it would be:

 

• Follow directions given in recent posts to leave the train at Ostiense (rather than Termini) and take the metro to Colosseo stop. Budget yourselves some time to look at the Colosseum from the outside, then walk up Via dei Fori Imperiali looking at the ruins on both sides of the street (several overlook points) of the Roman Forum and the Imperial Forums as well as Trajan's column. 
• Get a taxi at the taxi point at Piazza Venezia (very close by; take a look at Mussolini's balcony as you're getting into your taxi) and have them drop you in Campo dei Fiori. If you're early enough you may still see some of the market.
• Walk from Campo dei Fiori to Trevi Fountain --  Follow the path roughly outlined in Rick Steves' "Heart of Rome" tour. Map here but you can find details in his Rome book or I think there is also an mp3 you can download. If you do this, you'll hit most of the high points of sites that can be experienced without a reservation or long lines, although the Pantheon can get busy. (Still worth the wait.)  This will take several hours depending on your speed and how long you linger at places or over lunch.
• Reward yourselves with lunch somewhere along the way -- if you want a lunch "to go" treat yourself to the porchetta sandwich at the Antica Salumeria near the Pantheon (just to your right on the piazza if you are facing the front of the Pantheon).
• Once you reach the Spanish steps, hop on the metro line back to Termini station, which is the best place to catch your train back to Civitavecchia as Termini is the origin point. Be sure to leave a good 15 minutes to walk to your track though -- it is a LONG way.
• Should you end up with a lot of extra time after the Spanish Steps, there is a wonderful church just a block or so from Termini station that covers two significant eras of Rome history and makes a nice summary or ending: the name of the church is Santa Maria degli Angeli. It originally formed part of the Imperial Roman baths built by Emperor Diocletian. After the baths lay in ruins for centuries, Michelangelo created designs for a church to fill part of the old baths. (Other parts today are occupied by a planetarium and a museum).  Because it's Rome, you ought to go to at least one beautiful Renaissance church that was touched by the hand of Michelangelo, and also contains traces of Rome's ancient past.  You can read more here:  In Rome, I Stumbled on This Church Designed by Michelangelo - The Basilica de Maria Degli Angeli del Martiri (keepcalmandwander.com)

 

This is assuming that my interpretation of you not wanting to visit the Vatican is correct. 

 

 

[bbqbears]

Thanks for your thoughts.  I will share these with my family.  I am undergoing chemo, so stamina is not great and my friend has pretty significant mobility issues and cannot walk very far r/t pain, which is why we are doing the hop on/off bus, but I agree with your points, and this is not an ideal way to see Rome.  I think the ship's shuttle into Rome drops us off at the Spanish Steps, one of the bus stops.  And maple leaves, I will share your comments with my son and DIL-that is exactly my concern, i.e. they will be constrained by their aunt's limited ability to walk and will not see what they want to see.  My original query was really for them to see how people approach seeing key points when you only have a day.

[mapleleaves]

43 minutes ago, bbqbears said:

  And maple leaves, I will share your comments with my son and DIL-that is exactly my concern, i.e. they will be constrained by their aunt's limited ability to walk and will not see what they want to see.  My original query was really for them to see how people approach seeing key points when you only have a day.

 

I had a knee replaced 3 months prior to the cruise, so I was sensitive to the fact that I might hold up the rest of the group. I said up front that we didn't need to spend every day, all day, with each other.  We figured we would start the day off together with b'fast, take a transfer to whichever city, and then see how the day transpired. As it turned out, my knee was great, and we spent most of our time in port together. But we also had  a few hours apart at a couple of ports and agreed it was nice to have time away, and it also added to the dinner conversation when we had different experiences to talk about.

Good luck with your planning!

[boykin]

On 5/29/2022 at 12:03 PM, Host Bonjour said:

 

Seconded! Thanks for thinking of this Slidergirl! 😎

 

It's been wonderful to see the All Things Food & Wine sticky expand, thanks to everyone for adding their recommendations and continuing to ask questions, contribute to conversations. It looks like it's making a difference in helping travelers increase and enhance their planning and enjoyment of meals during their time in Rome and elsewhere in Italy, a country so renowned for its culinary riches. 

 

Well done community, as always 🙂 

 

I wish there was all things food and wine on the Greece and France boards also

[taylortime05]

Hi.  I wanted to give everyone an update.   We were scheduled to fly to Rome on June 23rd and our cruise departed June 28th.  The weekend prior to our flight we both got a cough and felt tired.  We both tested positive for covid.  We were so disappointed that we had to cancel our vacation.  I have submitted an insurance claim and expect that a we will get reimbursed for our nonrefundable trip costs. 

 

We’re looking at another cruise next Sep/Oct 2023 on the Celebrity Reflection.   I like the itinerary because we can stay a few extra days in Barcelona pre-cruise and Rome post-cruise.  I also like that it has an overnight stay in Florence.  The only repeat ports for us are Barcelona and Sicily.  

 

I’m also thinking that the weather will be a little cooler in Sept/Oct.   I’m still disappointed we didn’t get to Rome this summer but all your great tips will be used for this next cruise. 

 

I need to research all the new ports.  If you have any tips or recommendations please let me know.  

 

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by taylortime05

[euro cruiser]

I hope you're both feeling better now.  

 

The silver lining is that you missed one of the worst heat waves in recent European history.  September/October is a much better time to be in Europe, in my opinion.  

 

I would suggest getting a hotel room in Florence for the overnight rather than schleping all the way back to La Spezia, unless you plan to see Cinque Terre one day and Florence the other.

[marazul]

9 minutes ago, euro cruiser said:

I hope you're both feeling better now.  

 

The silver lining is that you missed one of the worst heat waves in recent European history.  September/October is a much better time to be in Europe, in my opinion.  

 

I would suggest getting a hotel room in Florence for the overnight rather than schleping all the way back to La Spezia, unless you plan to see Cinque Terre one day and Florence the other.

Great idea. Everything is open in Florence on Wednesday and Thursdays so taylortime can see all the sights they want without rushing, plus have a wonderful dinner in Florence. This also allows enough time to stop in Pisa if they leave Florence around noon. 

They will be in Santa Margherita the day before so they can go to Cinqueterre if they want to.

Edited July 9, 2022 by marazul

[euro cruiser]

Naples is a great port, there is an embarrassment of riches to choose from, but choose you must.   Your options range from important historical sites like Pompei and Herculeneum, to Naples herself, a fascinating two thousand year old city, to the Amalfi Coast, Capri and the other islands in the bay of Naples.

 

It's a lot to wade through.