Will Cruising Ever Recover

[BermudaBound2014]

Sure sounds like they are out of it to me too.....

 

[Guest ldtr]

8 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

This post is entirely irrelevant to the conversation. You continue to miss the point which has never been that ships don't have entire areas blocked off. Of course they do. My point is that if these cabins could be sold, they would (or at least a much larger percentage than 10-15% you claim as a fact).

 

Let me put it another way to help you understand:

-Ship goes on sale

-HAL blocks off all of deck 4 forward (less desirable cabins) from inventory.

-Ship proves to be popular and sells all remaining cabins

-I propose that, at this point, deck four forward (or at least a good portion of it) becomes available for purchase.

- If the ship never sells out, no harm no foul. HAL now has an entire block of cabins on deck four which can be used to quarantine if needed.

 

You have made claims which you state as facts, yet you can not provide any evidence (likely because no evidence exists). 

 

Until you can provide a reference, I'm not buying your 'facts' that cruise ships are withholding 10-15% of their inventory as it makes zero fiscal sense.    

DO you own calculations.  The areas blocked off have been blocked off for months.  Did 3 cruises on the same ship, one during spring break was almost full.  Guess what the exact same area was blocked off as was on a cruise 3 months earlier that was only 40% full.

 

You make your claims and do not even have comments from others to back them up.  So where is your proof that the cruise lines are doing what you say.

 

Do you really think that cruise lines like have big signs on fire doors in the elevator lobbies identifying them as restricted quarantine areas with red and yellow indicators.  Exactly what reason would they have for that.  If what you were saying was true they could leave the areas open.  Put the quarantine areas  totally out of site, or atleast place them such that they are not visible from the elevator lobbies.

 

Many have reported that they have booked areas and had their selected cabins moved because they were in the quarantine areas.  Why on earth would a cruise line annoy customers selecting their favorite room if what you say is true?

 

As mentioned above  I was just on a cruise that had every balcony sold out along with every suite.  Was sold out a month before the cruise departed.  One of the few Alaska cruises out of San Francisco.  If what you are saying is true then why was the blocked off area exactly the same as when I was on the ship 3 months earlier for an Hawaii cruise that was far less filled.  After if what you are saying is correct they should have easily been able to change the area and sell more balconies in that area instead of turning potential cruises away.

 

Bottom line is that the cruise lines have been consistent in the amount of space that they have used for quarantine on both Princess and HAL.  People on this site have reported over more than the last 6 months the exact areas that are in use on specific classes of ships, even when individual cruises, such as the one I was on have entire classes of cabins sold out.

 

People have already shown where under even the voluntary program the cruise lines had to quarantine crew whenever a new crew member joined the ship.  That quarantine period was originally 10 days, may have been shorted to 5.  When a crew member tests positive, close contacts also go into yellow quarantine.  They are put in balcony cabins, one per cabin for their period of quarantine. That uses a lot of space, not even taking into account any passenger quarantines in red space.

 

If you do not like my calculations do your own.  The blocked off spaces are well known.  The fact that they are used as quarantine space is well known (go on board any ship and ask any crew member you get the exact same answer as what the signs indicate.

 

Using the Grand Princess as an example.  There are 80 balcony cabins on the portion of Aloha that is blocked off.  Since they are only using balcony cabins for quarantine that is the exact capacity of both their red and yellow zones.  Really not an excessive amount of space considering that it is used for any new crew as well as any cases that come on board.

 

The space on the Ruby is the same.  Yet even though balconies on that ship were sold out well in advance those cabins remained in the quarantine zone.

 

So it seems that your argument is now not that the areas are blocked off, but that they are really not used for quarantine, even though they have signs indicating exactly that, the crew also states exactly that, if you ask customer service on board why you had selected cabin moved out  of an closed off are your are told exactly that.  Those people that have reported getting quarantined on board als report that they were placed in that exact area.

 

You may not believe it, but everything points opposite to your view.

 

So then if that is the purpose of those areas then it becomes an easy matter to look at deck plans and calculated exactly how much of the ships 2 berth capacity has been blocked off.

 

Where is any proof to support your hypothesis?  I can point at plenty of comments from others that have 1. had their requested cabins moved out of those areas  2. Passengers in quarantine being placed in those areas 3. Stated exactly what areas were being used.

 

The CD on the Majestic even had an hour presentation on what he went through at the start of the pandemic, he was on the Ruby off Australia, and the quarantine process when he rejoined the ship, including exactly what cabin he was in on the Majestic which being a Royal class ship used the front half of Dolphin deck.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by ldtr

[Guest ldtr]

5 hours ago, Mary229 said:

It’s over !  The CDC is out!  Breaking news, as of July 18 is out of the cruise game. 

Now it will be interesting to see what they continue to do.  

 

I expect vaccination will continue to be required

 

Also keep in mind that the change only impacts cruises out of the US and also depend upon what restrictions are in place in other countries visited.

 

So cruises that use Mexico as its foreign port would face the least restrictions.  Canada on the other hand still has restrictions, as do some of the Caribbean ports.

[BermudaBound2014]

@ldtr

Again, your entire response is irrelevant to my point.

 

If you read thru the thread, you will see that I have provided a reference (more than once) to actual statements from Arnold Donald which indicate that some cruises are selling at 110% occupancy. This is the same on RCL btw. What happened to quarantine rooms in the case of a ship selling over capacity? I suspect the cabins which may have been originally withheld from inventory are actually being sold when cruise lines can sell them. If they can't be sold, of course they can stay reserved for quarantining because that makes sense. Turning away paying consumers at this point in the game defies logic.

 

 

 "So it seems that your argument is now not that the areas are blocked off, but that they are really not used for quarantine," I have no idea where you came up with this theory, but it is also wrong considering I've not made any comments that remotely reflect this position.

I'm not sure if you are actively dismissing my point or if I am unable to explain it to you in a way that sticks, but at this time I think it's best we just agree to disagree and move along. 

 

Happy Sailing to you!! 

 

 

 

[richwmn]

40 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

If you read thru the thread, you will see that I have provided a reference (more than once) to actual statements from Arnold Donald which indicate that some cruises are selling at 110% occupancy.

It would be easy to counter you by saying that capacity of the ship has been lowered by the cabins set aside for quarantine so booking 110% of the reduced capacity is possible.

[BermudaBound2014]

22 minutes ago, richwmn said:

It would be easy to counter you by saying that capacity of the ship has been lowered by the cabins set aside for quarantine so booking 110% of the reduced capacity is possible.

 

That is actually an EXCELLENT point and certainly possible. Let me dig around through those quarterlies to see if I can find anything to substantiate. Great point!! You win the internet today 🙂 

Edited July 19, 2022 by BermudaBound2014

[Guest ldtr]

3 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

@ldtr

Again, your entire response is irrelevant to my point.

 

If you read thru the thread, you will see that I have provided a reference (more than once) to actual statements from Arnold Donald which indicate that some cruises are selling at 110% occupancy. This is the same on RCL btw. What happened to quarantine rooms in the case of a ship selling over capacity? I suspect the cabins which may have been originally withheld from inventory are actually being sold when cruise lines can sell them. If they can't be sold, of course they can stay reserved for quarantining because that makes sense. Turning away paying consumers at this point in the game defies logic.

 

 

 "So it seems that your argument is now not that the areas are blocked off, but that they are really not used for quarantine," I have no idea where you came up with this theory, but it is also wrong considering I've not made any comments that remotely reflect this position.

I'm not sure if you are actively dismissing my point or if I am unable to explain it to you in a way that sticks, but at this time I think it's best we just agree to disagree and move along. 

 

Happy Sailing to you!! 

 

 

 

Again which you ignore that  he is talking about Carnival cruise line, not HAL and Princess cruises.  We happen to be in a HAL topic stream not a Carnival cruise line stream.  Carnival has had better bookings with their younger age groups and families.  I have not sailed on Carnival so I cannot say what they are doing I have sailed during that first quarter on both HAL and Princess so can say with a what space they are setting aside as quarantine space.. Very unusual for a HAL or Princess ship to hit 110% even before the pandemic let alone after ward.  So the 110 number is not very relevant to want is going on on HAL and Princess ships.

 

So basically your view is anything counter to your view is not relevant.  Not surprising.

 

SO what is your point other than that there is no way that the cruise lines have put 10-15% of their cabins into quarantine space during the most recent quarter.  At least that is what you stated that you did not believe and what I have been addressing.

 

So maybe state your exact point if it is not that.

Edited July 19, 2022 by ldtr

[Mosaic]

Another horrible thread.

[BermudaBound2014]

@ldtr

 

Per your request, I'll try this one more time for you since I am trying to maintain civil discussion.

 

I have never argued that cruise lines haven't set aside some portion of their cabins for quarantine space. You pulled that from thin air also.

 

 What I have said repeatedly is that IF they could (later) sell these cabins they would. That is my point.

 

Here is a cut and paste from #77:

1-Ship goes on sale

2-HAL blocks off all of deck 4 forward (less desirable cabins) from inventory.

3-After some time, Ship proves to be popular and sells all remaining cabins

4-I propose that, at this point, deck four forward (or at least a good portion of it) becomes available for purchase.

5- If the ship never sells out, no harm no foul. HAL now has an entire block of cabins on deck four which can be used to quarantine if needed.

 

You made a claim and stated it as 'fact'. The context of your original reply has been deleted or I would show you exactly where this thread went astray. 

 

BTW: Since all of CCL has an average occupancy of 69% Q2, certainly you would agree that HAL is likely much lower than that. If HAL is sailing ships at an even low occupancy, there would never be a need to open up sales for deck 4 which is why you have witnessed these areas remaining unsold. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nymich]

26 minutes ago, Mosaic said:

Another horrible thread.

It may be time to bail.

[Overhead Fred]

2 hours ago, Mosaic said:

Another horrible thread.

 

2 hours ago, Nymich said:

It may be time to bail.

 

Kinda like a train wreck...

[Nymich]

14 minutes ago, Overhead Fred said:

 

 

Kinda like a train wreck...

Yes

[Boatdrill]

On 7/16/2022 at 11:42 AM, sfaaa said:

High fuel price, supply chain issues, Covid, labor shortage, heavy debt load and expensive airfares are killing the cruise industry. It will take a long time before cruise lines recover from the current sad state of affairs.

The cruise industry survived jet air travel,  and expanded through the years with additional (and larger) ships. It will survive this as well, as long as the cruise lines continue to offer their guests an exceptional way to travel. JMHO.

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Boatdrill

[Oceansaway17]

On 7/15/2022 at 1:01 PM, mcrcruiser said:

Carnival stock has tanked below $10 per share .We all know the reasons why but is this a  sign for the future of this industry ? 

well considering since 9/11 how airplanes still make us take shoes off at security and liquids no more than 3 ounces.  Also friends and family still can't go to the gate to say goodbye, I would say not really will cruising ever be the same too.  But who knows in this crazy world