Unvaccinated Cruisers

[traveler9999]

39 minutes ago, Ravensfan1973 said:

Most adults are not vaxxed unlike what the media tells you.  I'd say it's 50%.  95% of the adults  I know are not.  

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccination-coverage/ 

Maybe the media is wrong as you believe they are, but these are the latest stats where I'm from (Canada):  85.03% of the population vaccinated with at least one dose.

[JupiterTwo]

3 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

No, the 2 terms i am discussing are "inoculation" and "vaccine"

Both are the introduction of aa pathogen or antigen to elicit an immune response.

 

Vaccination is the process that occurs post inoculation or post vaccine injection.

 

End of story, this is what they taught us in medical school 30 years ago, this is what they teach in medical school now

 

A vaccine is an inoculation intended to induce immunity. An inoculation does not need to be for the purpose of immunization, although that may be the widely intended usage. 

 

Since the Covid-19 shot does not induce immunity, it is not a vaccine. It is an inoculation intended to aid the body's immune system's response to Covid, but it is not intended to provide immunity from Covid.

 

As such, in my opinion to be medically consistent, cruise lines should either require passengers to show proof of flu shots, or drop showing proof of covid shots, as neither shots induce immunity but both shots aid the immune system's response to their intended pathogens.

[Ravensfan1973]

7 minutes ago, traveler9999 said:

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccination-coverage/ 

Maybe the media is wrong as you believe they are, but these are the latest stats where I'm from (Canada):  85.03% of the population vaccinated with at least one dose.

That's Canada.  Many reasons for that including who is running your country

[hal2008]

2 hours ago, Ravensfan1973 said:

Yep.  "You will not get covid with these vaccines"  Said someone we know in summer of 2021

 

Statement was correct in summer of 2021 for the variants prevalent that time.

Look at historic chart. In counties where vaccination rate was high, covid cases almost dropped to nothing.

 

Old vaccines are not able to offer much protection against new Omicron variants in terms of prevention from getting mild infection but supposedly help with recovery.

[hal2008]

2 hours ago, JupiterTwo said:

 

A vaccine is an inoculation intended to induce immunity. An inoculation does not need to be for the purpose of immunization, although that may be the widely intended usage. 

 

Since the Covid-19 shot does not induce immunity, it is not a vaccine. It is an inoculation intended to aid the body's immune system's response to Covid, but it is not intended to provide immunity from Covid.

 

As such, in my opinion to be medically consistent, cruise lines should either require passengers to show proof of flu shots, or drop showing proof of covid shots, as neither shots induce immunity but both shots aid the immune system's response to their intended pathogens.

 

You are right on the money.

When WHO (or CDC) declares that we are in flu pandemic with number of deaths/cases similar to CURRENT expected actual cases/deaths primarily caused by Covid,  they should require that from public health perspective.

 

Right now, flu and covid numbers are still far apart (irrespective of how the last person who got covid felt it like flu) in USA>

 

But let be honest. In absence of any govt regulations, vaccine related regulations on cruise lines are less related to public health and more weighted by what their PR/marketing/legal gives as feedback.

Policies will be governed based on that feedback.

Edited August 3, 2022 by hal2008

[not-enough-cruising]

7 hours ago, JupiterTwo said:

 

A vaccine is an inoculation intended to induce immunity. An inoculation does not need to be for the purpose of immunization, although that may be the widely intended usage. 

 

Since the Covid-19 shot does not induce immunity, it is not a vaccine. It is an inoculation intended to aid the body's immune system's response to Covid, but it is not intended to provide immunity from Covid.

 

As such, in my opinion to be medically consistent, cruise lines should either require passengers to show proof of flu shots, or drop showing proof of covid shots, as neither shots induce immunity but both shots aid the immune system's response to their intended pathogens.

Ok, your opinion, it’s scientifically incorrect, but you are entitled. 
 

I believe your understanding of the definition of immunity is not quite clear, there are 4 types of immunity, none of which grant a 100% guaranteed  protected status. Your definition seems to imply immunity is perfect. 
 

Comparing Covid and Influenza, well, I just don’t have the time or energy for that discussion this morning.  

[orville99]

23 hours ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

not sure why you would. I booked Oasis for next April about a month ago, and not once during the booking process the system asked me about our vaccination status.

We are vaxxed and boostered, so it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

They have never asked about vaccination status during the booking process - only during the check in process.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

1 hour ago, orville99 said:

They have never asked about vaccination status during the booking process - only during the check in process.

I know. That's exactly what I said - why did he expect to have any trouble while BOOKING a cruise?

 

On 7/31/2022 at 6:36 PM, dada2199cc said:

Just booked a cruise for December — my partner and I are unvaccinated.

 

Had no issues.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Itchy&Scratchy

[RedIguana]

9 hours ago, JupiterTwo said:

Since the Covid-19 shot does not induce immunity, it is not a vaccine. It is an inoculation intended to aid the body's immune system's response to Covid, but it is not intended to provide immunity from Covid.

The covid shot does induce immunity in 85%-95% of those who receive it...for the original strain it was developed for. Quite good as far as vaccines go. Just because it does not produce near the immunity from the new strains does not change the fact that it was/is a darn effective vaccine against the first few strains. Chances are the new boosters will be much more effective against omicron as they will be tailored to those strains.

Flu shots are a guess. They produce this years current mix for the US based upon what was prevalent in Asia earlier that year. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they don't.

[orville99]

4 minutes ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

I know. That's exactly what I said - why did he expect to have any trouble while BOOKING a cruise?

Exactly. Their agents will gleefully book dead people if given the opportunity. 🤑

[aubreyc1988]

4 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

The covid shot does induce immunity in 85%-95% of those who receive it...for the original strain it was developed for. Quite good as far as vaccines go. Just because it does not produce near the immunity from the new strains does not change the fact that it was/is a darn effective vaccine against the first few strains. Chances are the new boosters will be much more effective against omicron as they will be tailored to those strains.

Flu shots are a guess. They produce this years current mix for the US based upon what was prevalent in Asia earlier that year. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they don't.

THIS, thank you!  Science and medicine evolve over time, people are acting like the vaccine never worked, but in reality it just waned in effectiveness due to the new strains. The current problem (I use the word problem because I am having a little trouble this morning waking up and thinking of a more accurate word) is that the CDC/medical professionals around the world take a long time approving things/rolling new vaccines and boosters out (because of high standards, politics, etc), they cannot keep pace with the ever evolving situation. 

[Biker19]

3 minutes ago, dada2199cc said:

Feels a bit like playing the lottery but if I get denied boarding, I'll just hop a flight to CUN from MIA and carry on.

That seems to be a very heavy financial commitment, but RCI will thank you for the free money. 

[orville99]

8 minutes ago, dada2199cc said:

I guess what I should have said is "my partner and I booked a cruise and called RCCL and got on the unvaccinated list and it was not an issue".

Just don't be surprised when you go to check in for your cruise that the list they "put you on" does not actually exist. Their sales reps will tell you anything you want to hear as long as they get the booking.

[Biker19]

1 minute ago, dada2199cc said:

If they deny me boarding, they'll refund me.  I had my lawyer look into this last week.  It's not a risk.

That’s a very risky bet - till now, virtually every one denied boarding due to lack of proper paperwork was not given a refund. The only folks getting refunds are from positive COVID tests. 
 

Biker, who would wait till after 8/8, RCI publishing of the rules and some reports of unvax boarding before booking any cruise. 

[aubreyc1988]

1 minute ago, hazeleyes46 said:

Did you worry about the amount of people dying of other things that you might have contributed to giving to them before covid? 

I didn't before but I should have and do now because I have grown as a person.  I can accept personal responsibility for my actions before Covid and can admit to my own wrongdoing. 

 

I have learned a lot about people and myself over the past two years. 

[orville99]

5 minutes ago, dada2199cc said:

Again, why would I care? 

Simple. If the policy does not change from what it is today, you will be denied boarding when you get to the port. If you want to play Russian roulette with your cruise $$ go for it, just don't be surprised.

[CruiserNic]

1 hour ago, orville99 said:

They have never asked about vaccination status during the booking process - only during the check in process.

We are cruising this November. I called LAST November about a price reduction and the agent did ask about our vax status and told me he would have to cancel my reservation because we weren’t vaxxed. I had to state several times that we weren’t  cruising for another year!  Like anything with Royal reps, you never know what you may get. 

[hazeleyes46]

8 minutes ago, dada2199cc said:

 

I appreciate your concern but I've checked it with my lawyer (who has defended me for over 27 years in business and personal contract needs) and he's given me the green light as of Saturday.

 

It's not significant enough money to stress about it.  Folks spend more at the casino in a year of cruising.  I've never paid for a drink package, an excursion, travel insurance or anything of the sort -- I'm not worried about a $20,000 low risk.

 

My first cruise is December 2022, so plenty of time to see how things go.  I have friends who are unvaccinated who are boarding mid-August already.  They just booked a cruise on Saturday, called in and reported their status and will be reconfirming everything next week.  They aren't worried either.

Unvaccinated going on RCCL? Under 6 nights I assume or got an exemption.