Oasis Miami to NJ

[seasidemama]

I was looking for the repositioning sailing when the Oasis goes from Miami to NJ late spring. Alas - does not exist.  There's a short 4 day closed loop out of Miami and then three days later the Oasis starts its summer season in NJ. Anyone know why?

[FionaMG]

I believe it's to do with the fact that, in order not to fall foul of the Jones Act, the ship would first have to head south for a stop at one of the ABC islands and only then head north to NJ, thereby requiring a longer-than-a-week repositioning cruise. As I understand it, it's more profitable just to get it as quickly as possible to NJ, which means the 3-4 night sailing with no passengers. 

[Broons77]

I would ask why not make a stop in Bermuda as that would satisfy the Jones Act, but I'm sure the RCI bean counters would have an answer for that...

[twangster]

Technically it's the PVSA (Passenger Vessel Services Act) although somewhat a moot point as both Jones (cargo ships) and the PVSA (passenger ships) are now codified into US federal law so it's simply... "The Law".  

 

[twangster]

Just now, Broons77 said:

I would ask why not make a stop in Bermuda as that would satisfy the Jones Act, but I'm sure the RCI bean counters would have an answer for that...

 

Nothing to do with Royal bean counters.  It's Federal US law.  

 

[Broons77]

1 minute ago, twangster said:

 

Nothing to do with Royal bean counters.  It's Federal US law.  

 

 

Understood, my point was just that going to Bermuda should satisfy the law.  So why not make that the stop rather than the ABC islands, as Bermuda would seem to not be so far out of the way.  But the folks at Royal must know better than i...

[time4u2go]

5 minutes ago, Broons77 said:

Understood, my point was just that going to Bermuda should satisfy the law.

Bermuda doesn't satisfy the law.

[twangster]

1 minute ago, Broons77 said:

 

Understood, my point was just that going to Bermuda should satisfy the law.  So why not make that the stop rather than the ABC islands, as Bermuda would seem to not be so far out of the way.  But the folks at Royal must know better than i...

 

We can all have opinions about what should be included in a law and what should not be included in a law.  it doesn't work that way.  

 

Yes, the folks at Royal know that transporting passengers between two US cities is subject to US federal law.  They are really that smart.  

[Another_Critic]

8 minutes ago, Broons77 said:

 

Understood, my point was just that going to Bermuda should satisfy the law.  So why not make that the stop rather than the ABC islands, as Bermuda would seem to not be so far out of the way.  But the folks at Royal must know better than i...

"...in order to embark in a U.S. port and disembark in a second U.S. port, the vessel must visit a distant foreign port outside of North America (Central America, Bermuda, the Bahamas, and all of the Caribbean except Aruba, Bonaire, and Curaçao, count as part of North America);"

[not-enough-cruising]

9 minutes ago, Broons77 said:

 

Understood, my point was just that going to Bermuda should satisfy the law.  So why not make that the stop rather than the ABC islands, as Bermuda would seem to not be so far out of the way.  But the folks at Royal must know better than i...

Bermuda is not classified as a "distant foreign port"

[not-enough-cruising]

Just now, Another_Critic said:

"...in order to embark in a U.S. port and disembark in a second U.S. port, the vessel must visit a distant foreign port outside of North America (Central America, Bermuda, the Bahamas, and all of the Caribbean except Aruba, Bonaire, and Curaçao, count as part of North America);"

beat me to it

[Broons77]

3 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Bermuda is not classified as a "distant foreign port"

 

Bermuda does count  I sailed there in May of this year on the NCL Pearl and on Anthem in 2018.

[Broons77]

7 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

We can all have opinions about what should be included in a law and what should not be included in a law.  it doesn't work that way.  

 

Yes, the folks at Royal know that transporting passengers between two US cities is subject to US federal law.  They are really that smart.  

 

I think I'm being misunderstood.  OP was wondering why there was no repo cruise going back to NJ from Miami.

 

The next poster said that they would have to go to the ABC islands to satisfy federal law and it wouldn't be worth it as they would be too far out of the way.

 

I then wondered why not go to Bermuda as that didn't seem to be too far out of the way and would satisfy federal law.  But then just implied with my comment that RCI would know better than i if were finiancially viable..

 

That's all I was trying to say.  Sorry if it came across rude or insulting.  Totally not my intention.

[Another_Critic]

2 minutes ago, Broons77 said:

 

Bermuda does count  I sailed there in May of this year on the NCL Pearl and on Anthem in 2018.

The Passenger Vessel Services Act, however, does not prohibit foreign-flagged ships departing from and returning to the same U.S. port, provided the ship visits any foreign port;

[twangster]

1 minute ago, Broons77 said:

 

I think I'm being misunderstood.  OP was wondering why there was no repo cruise going back to NJ from Miami.

 

The next poster said that they would have to go to the ABC islands to satisfy federal law and it wouldn't be worth it as they would be too far out of the way.

 

I then wondered why not go to Bermuda as that didn't seem to be too far out of the way and would satisfy federal law.  But then just implied with my comment that RCI would know better than i if were finiancially viable..

 

That's all I was trying to say.  Sorry if it came across rude or insulting.  Totally not my intention.

 

Understood, but to be clear Bermuda does not satisfy federal law for one way cruise between two different US ports. 

 

Bermuda does satisfy federal law for closed loop or roundtrip cruises that embark and debark at the same US city.  That is not what a repo cruise is.  

[Another_Critic]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Vessel_Services_Act_of_1886

[FionaMG]

21 minutes ago, twangster said:

Technically it's the PVSA (Passenger Vessel Services Act) although somewhat a moot point as both Jones (cargo ships) and the PVSA (passenger ships) are now codified into US federal law so it's simply... "The Law".  

 

Oops, yes. Considering how well you explained it to me in the past I shouldn't have got it wrong! 😬

[Broons77]

5 minutes ago, Another_Critic said:

The Passenger Vessel Services Act, however, does not prohibit foreign-flagged ships departing from and returning to the same U.S. port, provided the ship visits any foreign port;

 

Thank you, my bad.  Clearly I misunderstood about the differing starting and ending ports.

[not-enough-cruising]

17 minutes ago, Broons77 said:

 

Bermuda does count  I sailed there in May of this year on the NCL Pearl and on Anthem in 2018.

Completely different scenario

[twangster]

In summary Royal appears to think that it's better to operate a short non-revenue cruise absent of guests directly between Miami and New Jersey to be compliant with federal law as opposed to operating a longer revenue cruise with guests from Miami to the ABC islands and then to New Jersey as a means to be compliant with federal law.  

 

They must have concluded that less money is lost on a shorter repo cruise absent of guests compared to a cruise roughly three times longer that includes the distant ports necessary to be compliant with federal law.  

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by twangster

[FionaMG]

5 minutes ago, twangster said:

They must have concluded that less money is lost on a shorter repo cruise absent of guests compared to a cruise roughly three times longer that includes the distant ports necessary to be compliant with federal law.  

 

 

I can't help wondering if the bean counters have got that right. I would have thought there would be considerable interest for a rep like that.

Pity they don't give it a try. I would love to do one. 

[twangster]

2 minutes ago, FionaMG said:

 

I can't help wondering if the bean counters have got that right. I would have thought there would be considerable interest for a rep like that.

Pity they don't give it a try. I would love to do one. 

 

Most Americans look to the quintessential 7 night cruise for a vacation. 

 

Once you go longer than 7 nights it means working professional have to consume more than one week's worth of time off.  Many people do other things like travel for holidays or take other vacations so they are hesitant to commit more of their time off towards a single vacation.

 

The target market for longer cruises often involves seniors who are retired or long term employees who have ample vacation time at their disposal.  

 

Sure there may be one or even two thousand interested guests.  It's one thing to fill Serenade with enough guests to break even, it's much more difficult to fill an Oasis class ship with enough guests to break even. 

[Another_Critic]

5 minutes ago, FionaMG said:

 

I can't help wondering if the bean counters have got that right. I would have thought there would be considerable interest for a rep like that.

Pity they don't give it a try. I would love to do one. 

Maybe not enough interest to justify for Oasis class ship.

 

They are doing a Vision repo from FLL to Baltimore (stops at ABC) next May.  Much smaller ship to fill. 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruises/itinerary/10-night-fort-lauderdale-to-baltimorefrom-fort-on-vision/VI10FLL-680329171?sail-date=2023-05-01&currency=USD&country=USA&ecid=sl_mdt_shrdln__4645

[FionaMG]

5 minutes ago, Another_Critic said:

Maybe not enough interest to justify for Oasis class ship.

 

They are doing a Vision repo from FLL to Baltimore (stops at ABC) next May.  Much smaller ship to fill. 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruises/itinerary/10-night-fort-lauderdale-to-baltimorefrom-fort-on-vision/VI10FLL-680329171?sail-date=2023-05-01&currency=USD&country=USA&ecid=sl_mdt_shrdln__4645

 

I spotted that one when they first put it on sale. It's a nice itinerary. The dates don't work for us as we're doing a trip to the Big Apple precisely at that time, otherwise I would have very seriously considered it.

[mo&fran]

I  think Oasis is too big for Bermuda anyway. They had enough trouble with Quantum.

If it could go, there would have been summer cruises there.