Gratuities and MSC

[Paphillyguy]

3 hours ago, hamrag said:

You need to be more aware of why said poster did that. It seems obvious to me....in the original post the word 'not' was missing which resulted in the opposite meaning as that intended. The reply post was a correction, as it was too late to edit original post! 😉

Bingo, thank you.  It was too late to edit my post.  

[morpheusofthesea]

Tipping has been a way for us cruising for 40 years in the bowels of ships (2 lowers on the inside) of receiving ‘special’ treatment from staff normally reserved for the suite class. It is quite akin to non-suite paying Pinnacle passengers on RCCL. Having ‘established’ a reputation as ‘good’ tippers we often repeated the same ship time and time again receiving service above and beyond what one would normally receive. We will not elaborate because the great multitude of those that do not tip or tip a very little will demand of the cruise line the same courtesies granted us. Not just tipping, but tipping well has ‘worked’ for us. Will continue to tip well as long as we receive the better service.

[Bobbiegentry]

16 hours ago, morpheusofthesea said:

Because it is empirical.

Balderdash!!!

[no1talks]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

How many folks tip the Flight Attendants on airlines?  Think about it.

I buy chocolates, cookies, etc. from the airport shops, after going through security, and give it to the flight attendants.

 

To avoid suspicion, I keep it all in the original packaging, leave it in the store's bag, and show the receipt.

 

Sometimes, I catch crew members having a nosh in the galley. 😁

 

They have an irksome job, dealing with too many loutish passengers. I'm happy to be able to brighten their day when I'm on a flight.

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, morpheusofthesea said:

Tipping has been a way for us cruising for 40 years in the bowels of ships (2 lowers on the inside) of receiving ‘special’ treatment from staff normally reserved for the suite class. It is quite akin to non-suite paying Pinnacle passengers on RCCL. Having ‘established’ a reputation as ‘good’ tippers we often repeated the same ship time and time again receiving service above and beyond what one would normally receive. We will not elaborate because the great multitude of those that do not tip or tip a very little will demand of the cruise line the same courtesies granted us. Not just tipping, but tipping well has ‘worked’ for us. Will continue to tip well as long as we receive the better service.

What you describe is simply a bribe and has little to do with tips.  Tips (or gratuities) are normally tendered to folks as a way to thank them for excellent service.  Expecting something in return is just more of the "me me me" thing that has become too common these days.  

 

Hank

[morpheusofthesea]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Expecting something in return is just more of the "me me me" thing that has become too common these days.  

We said nothing about "expecting something in return". That we receive special treatment just 'appears' to us to be due to our tipping and not to our good looks and charming personalities. When asked (repeatedly) by different staff what we would like and not requesting anything they begin making all sorts of suggestions, gifts (which we re-gift, since it is not polite to refuse). It is a humbling experience to be offered goods and services that might be small to others reading this, but 'all' to those of very little means doing the giving.

Edited September 28, 2022 by morpheusofthesea

[hamrag]

2 hours ago, morpheusofthesea said:

.... When asked (repeatedly) by different staff what we would like and not requesting anything they begin making all sorts of suggestions, gifts (which we re-gift, since it is not polite to refuse)...

To re-gift a gift is the lowest form of 'gifting'. For me, it's akin to stiffing the crew by removing on board gratuities. 😉

[morpheusofthesea]

18 minutes ago, hamrag said:

To re-gift a gift is the lowest form of 'gifting'. For me, it's akin to stiffing the crew by removing on board gratuities. 😉

" Is it truly OK to regift an item? Or is it tacky and inconsiderate? We tapped two etiquette pros, Jodi RR Smith, founder of Mannersmith Etiquette Consulting, and Lisa Gache, founder of Beverly Hills Manners, and asked them to weigh in. Drumroll please ...

“Regifting is perfectly acceptable, especially with the rising popularity of second-hand and sustainable goods,” says Gache. “Why toss something that may wind up in a landfill when that same item may be cherished by someone who will truly appreciate it?” Smith is on the same page."

Edited September 28, 2022 by morpheusofthesea

[morpheusofthesea]

44 minutes ago, hamrag said:

3 hours ago, morpheusofthesea said:

 

To re-gift a gift is the lowest form of 'gifting'.

Funny, I would have thought handseling a purse without a coin would be a worse infraction.

[no1talks]

1 hour ago, morpheusofthesea said:

“ 'Regifting is perfectly acceptable...' "

Yes, very acceptable.

Regifting has managed to keep all 1063 North American mail-order fruitcakes circulating for 109 years.  

[les37b]

12 hours ago, Paphillyguy said:

If you look I was actually correcting a typo.  

 

If you are just posting to correct your mistake  it's probably wise to point it out. 

 

I read what's been added, not the half hidden blurb above the newly posted text, which I suspect is what most forum users do.

 

Shame you didn't respond to the points made, though it's good to see the person you were berating has responded again. He's attempting once more (as a well travelled American) to highlight things that I suspect you refuse to digest. Certainly interested to hear the answer to his end question which is a good one. I suspect you don't tip the flight attendant who has served and cared for you during the flight because they get paid a proper wage and don't feel the need to?  

 

 

[IsanTom]

On 9/26/2022 at 10:27 AM, hamrag said:

Norms for additional tipping on MSC are:

Waiter $1000

Assistant Waiter $500

Hostess $250

Musician, excellent or otherwise $125

Butler $1000

Junior Butler $500

Maitre D £250

 

These are averages, but many give more than that! 😉

I am Scottish (My Mom's Side) and the Tips are a Wee Bit Too Much! Happy Cruising!

[les37b]

9 hours ago, Hlitner said:

What you describe is simply a bribe and has little to do with tips.  Tips (or gratuities) are normally tendered to folks as a way to thank them for excellent service.  Expecting something in return is just more of the "me me me" thing that has become too common these days.  

 

Hank

 

Spot on.... Particularly when the "thank you" is given prior to any service received. There is zero explanation other than it being a bribe to be cared for in front of others. That's not showing gratitude in the slightest.

[IsanTom]

On 9/26/2022 at 11:12 AM, morpheusofthesea said:

"Many crew members working on cruise ships rely on receiving tips as part of their income.  Some cruise lines have required tipping policies, but others allow each cruiser to leave tips as he or she wishes. There is no correct or incorrect way to tip a crew member because there are different methods people like to use for tipping. The goal of this is to share basic information about tipping for cruises and to help give suggestions on how much you should tip crew members based on the level of service received. 
            Do not forget to add tips into the cost of your vacation or into your cruise budget. The overall cost of your vacation should include the base price of your vacation, extras, and tips.


Tipping Suggestions For Your Cruise Vacation:
     I have created this suggestion guide to give you a basic idea about which crew members you should tip and for how much you should tip based on the level of service you feel you have received.  Please note, the way this set up is the better service you receive from a crew member will earn him or her a higher tip. In some areas you may want to tip higher for exceptional and great service, but in others you may want to lower tips because you feel the crew member did not to their job well. 

I.  Baggage Handlers
         These are people who take your luggage at the cruise terminal and bring it to be loaded onto the ship.  Baggage handlers are often not employees of the cruise line or of the cruise terminal.  In some places they rely solely on tips to make their money. 

I recommend tipping these people based on the number and size of the suitcases/bags you give them:
Small Bag: $3          Suitcase:  $5           Important Baggage or Medical Equipment Bags:  $6 - $10

Note:  Baggage handlers are usually never included in a cruise line's auto gratuity. If you choose to use your cruise line's auto gratuity, you should still tip baggage handlers separately because they are probably not included. I recommend giving your baggage handler cash before he or she takes your luggage away. 

II.  Stateroom Stewards & Stewardess
        These are the people who clean your room during your cruise vacation. On many cruise ships tips are supposed to be shared between head & assistant stewards. I recommend on deciding a total amount you want to tip your steward or stewardess team for the entire cruise vacation and then splitting that total amount to include something for all members of the team. Be careful not to leave a stateroom steward or assistant out that cleaned your room.
Tip Amount:
High Level of Service (Above & Beyond)       -     $4.50 - $6.00 per person per day
Excellent Service (Performed Duties Well)    -    $4.25 - 4.50 per person per day 
Average Level of Service                             -    $3.75 -  $4.25 per person per day 
Poor Service                                                -   $3.25 -  $3.75 per person per day 
Awful Poor Service                                      -   Consider Removing Tip or Giving Little

III. Dining Room Team
          These are the people that serve you in the main dining room. On some cruise ships you are assigned to a specific table with specific servers, but on other cruise ships you have flexible options that don't give you the same service staff each night. If you do not think you will have the same service staff each night, leave auto-gratuity on. Most cruise lines will give you the option to increase (or decrease) the auto-gratuity for certain staff, teams, or departments. 
Tip Amount:
Above & Beyond Exceptional Service            -       $7.50 -  9.00 per person per day
Excellent Service  (Performed Duties Well)   -       $6.00 -   7.50  per person per day
Average Service, But Still Good                    -       $5.00 -   6.00 per person per day
Poor Service                                               -       $3.50 -   $5.00 per person per day
Terrible Poor Service                                  -       Consider Removing Tip or Giving Little
            
            On some cruise ships you may have an option to eat at a specialty restaurant. Don't forget to leave a tip for these crew members too! 

IV.  Shore Excursions and In Port
Tour Bus Driver -  $5 - $10
Tour Guide -   $5 - $10
If the tour bus driver is also your tour guide I would give $10 - $15, assuming this person have you a safe quality tour. Sometimes shore excursions require tipping, but if not the amount you tip is up to you."   

V. Other People To Consider Tipping
These people are sometimes included in auto-gratuities and work hard during cruises. Consider giving these people a tip to show your appreciation for their hard work: 

Dining Room Maitre D' -   $5 - $8  
Entertainment Staff Member  -   $2-$5 
Kitchen Staff  -   $3-$4  per cruise 

Bar Staff -   15-25% off bar tab (note: this is sometimes included in price with some cruise lines) 
Laundry  -   $1-$3 per bag of laundry 
Any Crew Member (Not Already Mentioned)  Who Provided You With Excellent Service   -  Your Choice ($ 2 - 10) 
SPA Treatment Crew Member - $4 - $7, depending on service and quality of treatment
Room Service -   $2-$8   depending on size of order. For small orders give less and for larger orders give more.

 Thank you for asking !
 

 

Bartenders - I always Tip the Bartender $1. the first few days of a cruise. You'll find out who gives you great service and bonuses as you continue your cruise. Not only will you get great service, but it will save you money during your cruise. Continue tipping for good service and bonuses.

[hamrag]

7 hours ago, IsanTom said:

I am Scottish (My Mom's Side) and the Tips are a Wee Bit Too Much! Happy Cruising!

Lang may yer lum reek! 

[Bobbiegentry]

15 hours ago, hamrag said:

For me, it's akin to stiffing the crew by removing on board gratuities. 

If the cruise lines would just pay their employees a decent and living wage, observations such as this wouldn’t be necessary. 

The cruise lines rely of tipping guilt to flesh out their bottom line at the expense of those who have no fiduciary responsibility to the line. 

[Paphillyguy]

11 hours ago, les37b said:

 

If you are just posting to correct your mistake  it's probably wise to point it out. 

 

I read what's been added, not the half hidden blurb above the newly posted text, which I suspect is what most forum users do.

 

Shame you didn't respond to the points made, though it's good to see the person you were berating has responded again. He's attempting once more (as a well travelled American) to highlight things that I suspect you refuse to digest. Certainly interested to hear the answer to his end question which is a good one. I suspect you don't tip the flight attendant who has served and cared for you during the flight because they get paid a proper wage and don't feel the need to?  

 

 

I assumed that people understood what I was doing.  I am sorry that you did not.  Also, I did not respond to the rest of your post as you were rude and I refuse to read the rest of what you had said.  

[les37b]

4 hours ago, Paphillyguy said:

I assumed that people understood what I was doing.  I am sorry that you did not.  Also, I did not respond to the rest of your post as you were rude and I refuse to read the rest of what you had said.  

 

You know what they say about people who assume?

 

And as for your pitiful comment about being rude, I suggest you read back to the comment I responded where you berated someone and finished saying. "I wouldn't want to travel with you". Well guess what! 

 

Ironically it was your rudeness that prompted a response. But I still read what you had to say, agree you are entitled to your opinion, just a shame you are unable to do the same 

 

[Paphillyguy]

1 hour ago, les37b said:

 

You know what they say about people who assume?

 

And as for your pitiful comment about being rude, I suggest you read back to the comment I responded where you berated someone and finished saying. "I wouldn't want to travel with you". Well guess what! 

 

Ironically it was your rudeness that prompted a response. But I still read what you had to say, agree you are entitled to your opinion, just a shame you are unable to do the same 

 

 

Perhaps your attitude and the attitude of the OP deserved the response I gave.  I rarely am rude to anyone on this forum, I have posted on here for years but some people in this forum just try to pick a fight with everyone and I am tired of it.  

 

There was no reason for your original comment.  

[Nunagoras]

On 9/26/2022 at 1:45 AM, Grayz said:

Hi all!  This is our first cruise on MSC and wonder about how gratuities work with MSC.  From what I read it looks like $14 per night per adult.  Is this added to my account or do I pay directly? - Depends on from where you book. In some markets you may have them added to your account or paid directly. In some markets it is added on your account only, and in others like mine here in Portugal it is paid directly on booking for quite a while from now. I also read that MSC doesn’t encourage tipping staff directly? - You're correct. MSC discourages tipping extra. You can do that, but in very discrete mode. On RC, Carnival and Princess I paid gratuities on my acct and also tipped more at the end as I saw fit. How does it work on MSC? - The same way, but on a more discrete fashion Sailing on the new Seascape Dec 11 from Miami.

Hi! Read your answers in blue. Here in Portugal tipping is mostly a way of rounding for hand money transactions. It is becoming useless these days when basically all things are paid by card. I don't use to pay additional tips more than the, already included on my cruise fare or onboard purchases, service taxes, unless there is a very exceptional reason that requires it. Imagine I need something from my cabin assistant very late in the evening or very early in the morning. Imagine I have a severe food allergy and in some day they need to fix it very closely in the MDR. I use to act accordingly on those occasions. There are some exceptions though:

 

Here in Europe the handling personnel dealing with your luggage in ports are usually workers from the same businesses that deal with your airport luggage handling, because those are the ones authorized to operate by the port authorities. They earn minimum wages on a quite dangerous environment, mostly as temporary contractors. They should be tipped accordingly. An EUR 5 per person is adequate, once here, apart the bags, in some places, they're there to make a first view on your cruise documents. This might to be similar on the US.

 

As said above, in some places, tour drivers and guides, while hired by local tour operators, they receive very minimum wages, so they rely on your tips. An EUR 5-10 per individual involved should be considered depending on shore excursion duration and quality.

 

If you are traveling inside a charter group with a tour leader, bear in mind that those are not cruise line employees. Tip them accordingly. An EUR 10 pppd should be considered these days.

[titangas]

I try to stay out of these tipping threads usually.

We took our first cruise in 1992, 30 years ago and tipping was most certainly how the employees made the bulk of their income and it was definitely an expectation of the guests to do so. This was also the case for the majority of the cruises we have taken over the years.

The first time I saw a DSC on an NCL cruise I was little surprised but certainly understood the rationale behind it.

 

MSC makes it perfectly clear that tipping is not necessary or expected. Their employees do make a living wage and their income isn’t relying on tips.

 

Americans in general are way too obsessed with tipping, I used to think that you should tip for a lot of things growing up in NY that I now shake my head at since moving down south where tipping is not as much a part of the culture.

 

When traveling I think  best practice is the respecting of the culture and norms of your destination. That goes both ways whether you are used to tipping or not for certain things. That is part of being an informed traveler.

 

 

[morpheusofthesea]

On 9/28/2022 at 1:06 PM, Hlitner said:

What you describe is simply a bribe and has little to do with tips

Not according to experts:

  

https://econwpa.ub.uni-muenchen.de/econ-wp/lab/papers/0309/0309002.pdf

"V. Tipping-in-Advance
Tipping in advance was the original type of tipping in commercial enterprises. There
are several versions for the origin of tipping, but one of the common versions dates
tipping back to England of the sixteen century. Brass urns with the inscription “To Insure
Promptitude” were placed first in coffee houses and later in local pubs, and people tipped
in advance by putting money in these urns.
The purpose of tipping-in-advance from the consumer’s perspective is to commit the
worker to provide good service quality. This form of tipping reverses the opportunism
problem: instead of the consumer being able to stiff, here the worker is able to provide
bad service despite the advance tip. Tipping experts, however, suggest that workers who
get advance tips try very hard to justify the trust they received: Brenner (2001) claims,
“The advance tip is the most effective method for assuring results... This strategy will
insure that you’ll be taken care of with the highest degree of consideration,” and Star
(1988) suggests about hotel concierge “If you want to be fawned over, tip the concierge
upon arrival as you introduce yourself.” Just as the consumer finds it less costly to tip
than to feel unfair and embarrassed in reward-tipping, the worker prefers to exert effort

than to feel unfair and untrustworthy with tipping-in-advance.

  10
VI. Bribery-Tipping
The idea of bribery-tipping occurred to me while reading the description of tipping a
maitre d’ in Schein, Jablonski and Wohlfahrt (1984). Bribery-tipping is also done before
the service is rendered, as in tipping-in-advance. The difference between tipping-in-
advance and bribery-tipping is not always clear. Generally, I categorize tips in advance as
bribery-tipping when someone else (either other consumers or the employer) is hurt as a
result of what the worker does, and as tipping-in-advance otherwise.
Tipping-in-advance is paying for something that is socially desirable: better service.
Bribery-tipping is paying for something that is socially undesirable: getting preferred
treatment without justification at the expense of others. For example, tipping a concierge
in advance is not likely to hurt anyone and therefore is categorized as tipping-in-advance.
Tipping a maitre d’ in order to get a table without having a reservation in an overbooked
restaurant, however, implies that other customers with reservations (or those without
reservations who arrived before the tipper) will have to wait longer for their tables, and
can be considered a bribe offered to the maitre d’. Tipping the maitre d’ for a better table
is somewhat more complex to categorize, but can still be categorized as bribery-tipping.
If we assume that the customer is entitled to an average table, tipping the maitre d’ to get
a better table hurts the other customers who get less-than-average tables.
Another example for bribery-tipping in which the employer is hurt rather than other
customers is when a guest tips the reservation manager to get a free upgrade of a hotel
room. The owner of the hotel would prefer to sell the better room for a higher price rather
than giving it as a free upgrade, and is hurt by the tipping transaction. As with other cases of bribery, both the giver and the taker (the consumer and the worker) can be blamed.
Despite the negative connotations of bribery, bribery-tipping can be welfare enhancing.
For example, it allocates the good tables to those who value them the most, if we assume
that everyone can tip to get the better tables. If some customers are less willing “to bribe”
not because of the monetary cost but because they believe that this behavior is
inappropriate, however, bribery-tipping can also reduce welfare."

[indstate3333]

Ok….I think now we have fully discussed tipping and received a history lesson.  Can we all agree….tipping is a personal preference….does not mean you are right or wrong when tipping or not tipping.  I have vacationed in Europe 3 times and tipped in restaurants even with the added charge. I tipped on our MSC cruise in 2019 and will tip on the Seascape in 2023.  That is my choice and I would never criticize (or care) if my fellow cruisers tip or do not tip.  I just hope nobody is stressing out when on vacation if they should or should not tip.

[CRUISENSNOOZE]

On 9/29/2022 at 3:38 AM, IsanTom said:

I am Scottish (My Mom's Side) and the Tips are a Wee Bit Too Much! Happy Cruising!

You then missed the end Imoji..it was winking. I believe he was joshing!...well hope so.

[les37b]

22 hours ago, Paphillyguy said:

Perhaps your attitude and the attitude of the OP deserved the response I gave.  I rarely am rude to anyone on this forum, I have posted on here for years but some people in this forum just try to pick a fight with everyone and I am tired of it.  

 

There was no reason for your original comment.  

 

Oh no. An I am right and you are wrong character and no one else’s opinion counts. Not quite sure why you are picking on the OP now, but ho hum.

 

There was every reason for my comment and the sentence above spells out why and the uncalled for suggestion the poster you were abusing was someone to avoid on a cruise. Ironic really.

 

Like I’ve stated, several times now, but you apparently claim you don’t read my responses. I don’t have any axes to grind if you wish to tip whatever you want. Just don’t disrespect others like you did and we’ll all get on just fine.