MSC vs other cruiseline ships

[Chris19821]

21 minutes ago, Saab4444 said:

Such big and crowded ships with a low level of service can never be rated similar to luxorious cruise line ships. Maximum 3 stars for all MSC ships. If you book the Yacht Club maybe a little bit of luxury as long as you stay in that area.

 

Totally disagree. Having sailed with Celebrity Cruises, NCL, MSC and HAL, there's no 'huge' difference between the cruiselines in terms of ships, cabins, entertainment. If you compare them with Seabourn, then yes... there is a difference.

 

Other than that, rating "ALL MSC ships" as "3-star" is kind of pointless, really.

[Griff4AU]

@Chris19821 Let it go 😉  😂  I almost responded to the comment, but their "If you book the Yacht Club maybe a little bit of luxury as long as you stay in that area" (I added the emphasis) made me realize it wasn't worth it.

 

While I have not been in the YC and don't pretend to be an expert, not one person (who has stayed in the YC) has ever said "little bit of luxury". That poster has never been in the YC and possibly never sailed MSC.. So in the US we call folks who comment with no real experience "internet Trolls"... or  I call them "keyboard commandos". 

 

Just when we had a good and constructive dialogue going, the "internet expert" shows up. 

 

I look forward to your comments on the Seascape. She's on our "short list" for a June sailing for my better half's birthday. 

[Saab4444]

27 minutes ago, Griff4AU said:

@Chris19821 Let it go 😉  😂  I almost responded to the comment, but their "If you book the Yacht Club maybe a little bit of luxury as long as you stay in that area" (I added the emphasis) made me realize it wasn't worth it.

 

While I have not been in the YC and don't pretend to be an expert, not one person (who has stayed in the YC) has ever said "little bit of luxury". That poster has never been in the YC and possibly never sailed MSC.. So in the US we call folks who comment with no real experience "internet Trolls"... or  I call them "keyboard commandos". 

 

Just when we had a good and constructive dialogue going, the "internet expert" shows up. 

 

I look forward to your comments on the Seascape. She's on our "short list" for a June sailing for my better half's birthday. 

Well, I cruised MSC three times and many others in the last 30 years. MSC offers cheap cruises for the mass market on big and new but crowded and noisy ships with a lower service level. If you want a good service level and no crowds you have to book Yacht Club. This is of course ok but to call it a luxury experience is misleading. Opposite to yours my comment was constructive, based on past experience and most important not personal offensive. 

[Nunagoras]

1 hour ago, mowogo said:

Princess is going larger because Carnival Corporation believes that they can work the Princess experience on a ship that large.  They will succeed and be years ahead of X, or fail horribly and significantly tarnish the Princess brand.  

I believe this as being such a "controlled risk decision" they're making, and they may very well to succeed. Tons of 50'ers with no kids being "forced out" now from the baseline mainstream mega-ships (I don't need to read CC boards to understand that. Just need to give a look on the prospects from the 2023-2027 shipyard order-book ship's experiences suffixes to capture the figure). Princess is obviously more expensive than baseline mega-ships, but several ones ready to pay the little bit extra, and they're coming from the below level, then less sensible to the "cutbacks", if there's any to the Princess product, while many of the Princess regulars, whom are a smaller number, will likely to "retire"... And while for me 4300 guests may feel like a little bit too much for me; current Princess new builds carry up to 3600 if my memory doesn't fail. It's not a huge increment... And FYI: While MSC is doing 4000 guests/137k GT on the Fantasia class; Princess is doing such a superb 4300 guests/175k GT on the Sun class!... That's a wonderful space per guest ration on what such a tentative mega-ship the Sun is! And, TBHH; if the Fantasia rarely feels crowded, apart on those moments when it is supposed to be; the Princess Sun will be a wonderful place to stay at on what crowd control respects!... If needed CG will only need to turn the Sun class a teens & adults only cruise experience and control the 3rd/4th beds numbers, and all will be great reducing slightly the full capacity. The ones to whom it will appeal are there, but even on the last of the last cases it fails miserably they can simply to redeploy the ship elsewhere with whatever brand they wish!... I'd to be one of those to whom ships on this like would appeal... Oh, well; let us to not turn this too out of topic, but this thread has become so interesting! And quite "addictive" too!... Many thanks!...

[Chris19821]

41 minutes ago, Saab4444 said:

Well, I cruised MSC three times and many others in the last 30 years. MSC offers cheap cruises for the mass market on big and new but crowded and noisy ships with a lower service level. If you want a good service level and no crowds you have to book Yacht Club. This is of course ok but to call it a luxury experience is misleading. Opposite to yours my comment was constructive, based on past experience and most important not personal offensive. 

 

Your comment was not really constructive. Unfair to rate ALL MSC ships as 3-star ships, that's a kind of blunt expression. MSC's new ships are beautiful and I have had great experiences on the MSC Meraviglia where service was top notch in comparison to HAL. 3-star is kind of insulting, especially when you write 'all ships' and 'a little bit of luxury'. Your 'tone of voice' could be more friendly, as other have stated. 

 

If you haven't been on the ship, you can not rate the ship. Simple.

 

And now, let's continue with the good vibes 🙂

Edited December 12, 2022 by Chris19821

[Griff4AU]

37 minutes ago, Nunagoras said:

I believe this... 

I'm quoting you without really filling up the page with your quote!  Very interesting points, and I think you're bang-on. Pax vs tonnage does matter... to a point... I think... (don't know). I have zero desire to go on the Odyssey (5622 and 168.7 k tons) because 5622 seems insane to me. Yet one of my part-time clients loves it and will be on her next month. The new RCL Icon will have 7500 pax (at 250.8k). I don't care if she was 400k tons... 7500 pax has zero sex appeal to me. 

 

For me... 3-4k is the right number (and smaller for Alaska). 

 

The last 3 Princess boats have been in the 3600ish range. Before that, their sweet-spot was the 3000ish boat. I have been on 2 of the last 3 and I never thought crowding was an issue. I was a little concerned with the Preziosa and 4300ish with 139k tons and splurged with the YC. It will help determine (for me) if the MSC Pax / Tonnage ratio works for me.

Then again, a YC experience for the same (or sometimes less) than a Mini on Princess or RCL (and almost always X) seems like a great balance for me - and the way I cruise. 5 years ago I vowed I'd never set foot on an MSC ship, now I am really looking forward to it and planning a second sailing without being on the first.

Then again, doesn't "attitude" help determine if your cruise is going to be great or not? If you expect great, you usually get it.. if you expect cr@p, you're almost always going to be right.

 

[sealynx]

15 hours ago, mowogo said:

Princess is going larger because Carnival Corporation believes that they can work the Princess experience on a ship that large.  They will succeed and be years ahead of X, or fail horribly and significantly tarnish the Princess brand.  

Yep. Same with the P&O experience and HAL experience. They are taking a risk by putting everything on big ships. This might be a reason why small ship companies are growing in any market. But then again, all companies (except Costa) are growing.

[Nunagoras]

18 minutes ago, sealynx said:

Yep. Same with the P&O experience and HAL experience. They are taking a risk by putting everything on big ships. This might be a reason why small ship companies are growing in any market. But then again, all companies (except Costa) are growing.

Costa is; or either way was; such a continental European, mostly Italian sort of things, but the Europeans are now more demanding on their holiday arrangements. Apart some younger generations, Europeans in general are available now to pay solid 4* experience and above, instead of 3* party like ones. CCL seems to only very recently have noticed that, and they're trying to figure out what their best strategy to cope with that. Make P&O, Princess and HAL larger ship trademarks seems the option instead of Princessiside Costa. With MSC growing solidly on the EU 4* solid level, CCL has a very small maneuvering margin, and there are the ones whom remember already the Costa Concordia disaster together. I believe CCL will likely to finish Costa and grow the 4*+ service level out of Princess with somewhat larger ships elsewhere they can. After the current crisis in Europe that is where the demand will be. For the baseline, they'll just to have Carnival and that suffixes, even if Italian Fun Style.

[mowogo]

6 hours ago, Nunagoras said:

Costa is; or either way was; such a continental European, mostly Italian sort of things, but the Europeans are now more demanding on their holiday arrangements. Apart some younger generations, Europeans in general are available now to pay solid 4* experience and above, instead of 3* party like ones. CCL seems to only very recently have noticed that, and they're trying to figure out what their best strategy to cope with that. Make P&O, Princess and HAL larger ship trademarks seems the option instead of Princessiside Costa. With MSC growing solidly on the EU 4* solid level, CCL has a very small maneuvering margin, and there are the ones whom remember already the Costa Concordia disaster together. I believe CCL will likely to finish Costa and grow the 4*+ service level out of Princess with somewhat larger ships elsewhere they can. After the current crisis in Europe that is where the demand will be. For the baseline, they'll just to have Carnival and that suffixes, even if Italian Fun Style.

Costa is a dead line walking, just a matter of how it dies, and how the 4 ship experiment works will really determine which route.  They are really testing to see how little work they have to do to move the ships from Costa to Carnival and it not draw complaints (I'm already seeing the complaints of no Guy's)

[Griff4AU]

5 minutes ago, mowogo said:

Costa is a dead line walking, 

I hate this but I suspect you're right. My first ever cruise... 40++ years ago, was on the "Carla C" (Costa)  and it was life altering for me. I still save Carla C pics when I see them. 

[mowogo]

1 hour ago, Griff4AU said:

I hate this but I suspect you're right. My first ever cruise... 40++ years ago, was on the "Carla C" (Costa)  and it was life altering for me. I still save Carla C pics when I see them. 

You don't take out 4 ships in quick succession if the line is healthy.  Only reason I can see the launch of Costa by Carnival in the US is to be able to launch with zero renovations vs. the partial conversions they just rolled out

[Nunagoras]

1 hour ago, mowogo said:

Costa is a dead line walking, just a matter of how it dies, and how the 4 ship experiment works will really determine which route.  They are really testing to see how little work they have to do to move the ships from Costa to Carnival and it not draw complaints (I'm already seeing the complaints of no Guy's)

They'll to cram Guy's Burgers elsewhere on a corner they find useful for that. They'll end up Costa, redeploy ships as Carnival (with a few in Europe) and turn P&O the EU mainstream line while Princess will be their EU/US premium...

[Nunagoras]

13 minutes ago, mowogo said:

You don't take out 4 ships in quick succession if the line is healthy.  Only reason I can see the launch of Costa by Carnival in the US is to be able to launch with zero renovations vs. the partial conversions they just rolled out

No, you won't of course! Costa is losing in Europe for quite a while now. The pandemic simply gave them the sack... MSC and RCI are the leaders here now with the British market working somewhat apart. Most of the EU TA's whom used to work their charter groups with Costa are now happily on the MSC's camp... The market has changed...

[morpheusofthesea]

On 12/12/2022 at 11:52 AM, Saab4444 said:

Such big and crowded ships with a low level of service can never be rated similar to luxorious cruise line ships. Maximum 3 stars for all MSC ships. If you book the Yacht Club maybe a little bit of luxury as long as you stay in that area.

Working our way up to luxury cruise lines that sail from a South Florida port. In the meantime we are booking suites on those that do sail from here. Celebrity began sailing first out of Ft. Lauderdale ,after restart, with their Edge and then Equinox. Enjoyed both. Found we appreciated the dedicated suite restaurant called Luminae was closer to our cabin deck on Edge class than on S class (Equinox). The hiking from deck 12 down to the Luminae, deck 3, took its toll (Equinox). Being in the middle of a pandemic we have gotten use to taking the stairs than getting into a crowded elevator. 

   We then tried again the MSC ships in the Yacht Club. MSC ships have more of what we are looking for in a cruise and cabin. Had to use up some FCC on Celebrity and just got off the new Beyond. A big disappointment (but new ships generally are). Hope it will not be the same with MSC's new Seascape. Found  the level of luxury on the Seaside and then the Seashore to be what we will compare all the other cruise lines  against in their suite class. We had butlers in the YC that rival the 'genies' on RCCL. Found the cleaning more thorough on MSC ships and constant witness to a cleaning staff in all public areas. Food and entertainment are idiosyncratic. Just found more indigestion and less  entertainment and more game shows  on the Beyond. We enjoyed the live bands and jazz quartet on MSC. Celebrity does have a much better Cafe al Bacio with 12-16 different complimentary desserts at all times. (Will miss that). MSC has much better restaurant service than the Haven (2 hours). Nothing rivals the Venchi chocolate kiosk (even the new French chocolates kiosk on Beyond). Being able to reserve a pergola/cabana on the suite sun decks thwarting all the chair hogs on all the cruise lines (except Holland America). Elevator key card over rides for suite guests is the greatest idea since 'sliced bread'. Use to be able to throw in price into the conversation, but the holidays are comparable to all lines right now. The RS cabin on the Beyond for our Thanksgiving was $18,000 and this Christmas the Seascape for the RS is $21,000. If the new Seascape is anything like the Seashore it will be money well spent.

Edited December 14, 2022 by morpheusofthesea

[no1talks]

1 hour ago, morpheusofthesea said:

"...luxury cruise lines that sail from a South Florida port."

We've been considering options for future "drive-to" cruises, after MSC's Florida and New York (Bermuda) itineraries are played-out. Frankly, most of the luxury lines don't have any appeal. Few of their cruises are a week or week-and-a-half and the nature of my job prevents me from being away more than 17 days or so. Of the few that do fit my time limit, I can count on one hand those which embark and disembark from the same drivable port.
 

 

1 hour ago, morpheusofthesea said:

"The hiking from deck 12 down to the Luminae, deck 3, took its toll (Equinox)."

For me, hikes would be a feature and not a bug. I'm very much looking forward to our 2024 before-and-after-meal strolls on MSC's Divina. (For those unfamiliar with Divina, the Yacht Club suites are forward. The Yacht Club dining room is astern.
 

 

1 hour ago, morpheusofthesea said:

A big disappointment (but new ships generally are). Hope it will not be the same with MSC's new Seascape.

Oy vey! From your mouth to...

We're booked on Seascape for March and I hope the inevitable misfires are resolved. 
 

 

2 hours ago, morpheusofthesea said:

"We enjoyed the live bands and jazz quartet on MSC."

We enjoy live music as well and that's why we are considering HAL as an alternate to MSC when we've run out of MSC Caribbean itineraries. HAL's "Music Walk" looks very interesting. Speaking of HAL, Morpheus, what did you mean when you excepted Holland America on the topic of chair hogs? 
 

 

2 hours ago, morpheusofthesea said:

"...and this Christmas the Seascape for the R(oyal) S(uite) is $21,000. If the new Seascape is anything like the Seashore it will be money well spent."

For me, the dream YC cruise would be on a Meraviglia Class ship (Or Mera-Plus) booked in a Yacht Club duplex. We would have cajoled a few friends to take the same cruise, in whatever accomodations seemed best to their circumstances. Then, since the duplex is well outside of the actual Yacht Club boundaries, YC staff couldn't really object to the lot of us having the nightly after-party in our duplex. 😆

 

[morpheusofthesea]

8 hours ago, no1talks said:

Speaking of HAL, Morpheus, what did you mean when you excepted Holland America on the topic of chair hogs? 

Just that HAL is another cruise line that allows guests to book cabanas for the week ($399) and not be bothered by chair hogs taking up all the prime locations.

[morpheusofthesea]

13 hours ago, no1talks said:

We would have cajoled a few friends to take the same cruise

I like that word "cajoled". I find it hard enough to be 'cajoled' by my DW to do all the things she is looking forward to do on a cruise let alone all the things another couple has in their minds.

[morpheusofthesea]

However, I remember years ago being 'cajoled' by our table mates of getting off the ship in Sydney. Australia and having dinner at the world famous Sails Restaurant. We went in earlier in the day to make reservations and of course it was all booked, but we showed up for dinner anyway and were seated. Beautiful views of the harbor ( the same if not nicer we had on the ship) and we all agreed we missed better food on the ship that evening.

[shipgeeks]

Is Sails at the Opera House?

[morpheusofthesea]

2 hours ago, shipgeeks said:

Is Sails at the Opera House?

Don't  really remember. It could even have been Sails Restaurant in Auckland, New Zealand. I just remember being 'cajoled'.

Edited December 14, 2022 by morpheusofthesea

[GOLDENBONNY]

On 12/10/2022 at 9:51 AM, Chris19821 said:

Hi all

We will be sailing on the brand new MSC Seascape in a couple of weeks and we are really looking forward to our trip!

You, as real cruise experts, how would you rate the new MSC ships compared to other cruiselines? Some rate other cruiseline as 5-star ships and some cruiseline are rated as 3-star ships. To me, those new MSC ships look like luxurious ships that can definitely compete with other luxurious cruiselines. We have everything included such as spa access, internet, premium plus drink package and the voucher even mentions: Studio Portrait / Dinner Photo / Photo with master. Anyone knows what that includes?

 

Anyhow, we are really looking forward to exploring the ship! To me, for the last 8 years, MSC is doing a great job with all those new ships such as Seascape, World Europa, etc.

 

I look forward to hearing your opinions!

 

MSC had most beautiful ships and best entertainment in the sea (and best Pizza) LOL I just wish they would stay MSC, stay Italian,  and stop making those monster ships aka Royal and stop Americanise themself 

[Hlitner]

A comment about "Princess going larger."  We have long enjoyed the "Grand Class" since our first cruise on the Grand Princess.  But than Princess decided to add an additional passenger deck when they created the Caribbean Princess.  IMHO it broke the mold!  When we went on the Caribbean Princess our experience was awful.  Never enough seats in the theater for Production shows, queues too long for the MDR, long queues in the Lido, etc.  They than created the Royal Class and suddenly we had postage stamp balconies, not enough elevators, etc. When the Caribbean Princess took us to Greenland it was an unmitigated disaster.  Trying to tender 3500 souls ashore in a tiny town (with a tender pier that could only handle one boat at a time) was awful.  Some folks waited over 3 hours to get on a tender and gave up (they never got ashore).  This happened at the two Greenland tender ports.  In Nuuk, the number of cruisers overwhelmed the relatively small city.  

 

Ports have reacted to Mega ships.  It has resulted in places (i.e. Charleston, Key West, Bar Harbor, Venice, etc) banning or partially banning cruise ships.   There are already movements in many other ports (especially in Europe) to further restrict or ban ships.  Mega ships have all but ruined some of the Caribbean islands (such as St Thomas) because of the high number of passengers flooding the islands.  No way would we ever vacation in St Thomas these days because of all the day trippers (cruise ship passengers).  When we go to a Caribbean island for a land-based vacation we now go to islands that do not welcome large cruise ships (i.e. St Barts, Anguilla, etc).

 

There is a place for the huge Mega ships and we think they are at their best on sea days, at their private islands, and at the handful of ports that can handle the masses.  But as an adventurous traveler/cruiser I will admit that there is nothing better than being on a small ship (less than 800 passengers) going to smaller more exotic ports.

 

Hank

[KKB]

Certainly an interesting thread...

As a seasoned cruiser (20+ over 20 yrs on Celebrity, Princess, RCCL, NCL & DCL) I can attest that cruise lines are indeed more alike than different. Each line has things it does well (Celebrity & Princess: food & service; RCCL & NCL: shows & amusement-type activities) & each has things we wish they did differently (tho we find that to be differences in ship/class more than line).

 

We are cruising Carnival for the 1st time in 2 weeks...free from their Casino Match program. 

A free 2 week cruise to Hawaii? I'm certain we can have a good time & I've tempered my expectations...

 

I am cruising MSC on a casino match offer in Feb & tacked on cruise the week prior as it was so dang cheap--$500 for a balcony plus $200 OBC for just me. Then I found UK & N. Europe for 10+11 days in May with drinks & internet for $1500 total (interior). I had some European air credits to use so I jumped. (cruising alone on these as DH has golfing commitments)

 

We have stayed interior to balcony (family balcony on DCL). Balconies are great, but we really just don't use them that much (I do more when I cruise solo). As much as I would like to try YC (or Haven, or Retreat...), all I would think about is all that money would buy us another cruise or 2! (being retired young has it's perks!!

 

I admit to an affinity for larger ships (more things to do) & newer ships, tho again, not a deal breaker. 

 

But over 20 years I have seen NO significant change overall in our cruising experience.

Are they adding newer bigger ships? Of course. But smaller ones still exist. Choices for all.

Are there some cutbacks & service issues as of recent--uh, yes, in virtually EVERY industry worldwide. 

 

It's simple. If luxury is a priority for you (like my SIL), go YC or choose a luxury line (yes, these are all mass market, 3-4*). If you are on a budget or looking to travel more often, take advantage of those great deals as I have!

 

Happy cruising!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nunagoras]

6 hours ago, KKB said:

It's simple. If luxury is a priority for you (like my SIL), go YC or choose a luxury line (yes, these are all mass market, 3-4*). If you are on a budget or looking to travel more often, take advantage of those great deals as I have!

This exactly! First of its all: Cruising as anything else will be what one makes it to be: In search of a nice time? Surely! In search of the bad, the ugly and the ugliest? Oh, no doubts!... That said; understanding the market segmentation while not key to have a great time, it helps!... So; basically; my over to top pro tip for everyone on their first time cruising adventure is certainly: Research for what you want that cruise and book accordingly! Are you on a budget? On a need for luxury? on a special moment on your life in search of a once in a lifetime experience? "Fun" activities are critical? Food quality is a deal breaker? Little to no kids is a deal breaker? Among others; those are the questions one would to put to themselves before booking. As a quite regular cruiser myself; I'm now in a moment on my life when to cruise less, and pay a little more to have a better service may be important. To each their own though!

 

Have a nice day!...